Valvano Speaks Out

[Sultan__of__Swine]

Bob Valvano spoke out directly on the state of the team and what he'd do.

• Mack is playing too many players. Play the guys who have played the best. Shorten to 8 or 9, but no more.
• Play these guys: Cross, Williamson, Ellis, West, and Curry
• Bench rotation: Davis, Faulkner, Wheeler......maybe spot minutes for Malik Williams
• Not really sure what you do with Malik Williams. He is not impacting the game on either end. Worry about his leadership.
• Wheeler was lost last night, but you can make it work by playing a 2-3 zone and putting him in the middle. That's easy for someone who is inexperienced.
• Team does not know how to exchange punches with opponents when the opponent makes a run at them.
• There is no separation between the players on this roster. Who is the guy that would lead the "punching back"?
• Curry gives the team a reason to want to pass to him. He's always looking for an openings to score. He also dunks the ball.

 

[2330859]

Sorry, I witnessed Bob firsthand at Bellarmine well before the Knights evolved to a Division II power in the GVC, and to their current D1 position. Bob’s conference coaching record was 29-47, hardly any thing to warrant credibility at this level.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Sorry, I witnessed Bob firsthand at Bellarmine well before the Knights evolved to a Division II power in the GVC, and to their current D1 position. Bob’s conference coaching record was 29-47, hardly any thing to warrant credibility at this level.

All the thoughts he had seem legitimate to me. What do you think he said that lacks merit?

 

[earsky]

Anybody else on here think that the departure of a couple of assistants is having an effect on some of the vets?
Idk,just a thought.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Anybody else on here think that the departure of a couple of assistants is having an effect on some of the vets?
Idk,just a thought.

I’m sure it is. Typically the vets would be helping bring along the transfers. Instead they are all trying to learn the new system. I think getting rid of both assistants was a rash, boneheaded move.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I am on record saying it doesn't matter who starts. This team doesn't have the horses.

Bob's thoughts are hilarious to me. Not saying he is right or wrong but based on the OP Bob is saying do not play the leading scorer and at worst the #2 3pt shooter (probably the best) on the team. It's just funny. Locke should play so I guess Bob is wrong. Maybe not start or start either way but he has to play. He has to play on this team. They can't score at least he can a little bit. Did catch fire vs WF. Don't think the kid would see floor on a vintage UofL team. The guy has 40 3pt hits as a cold shooter this yr. 37% on yr his lowest on a high volume career.

After further review. Bob is wrong bout dat.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

If you forced me to set a lineup..

El at PG ride him out let him play thru mistakes if this happened day one he would be much better than he is now.

Locke at SG but he has to be hitting to play heavy minutes.

Malik at C in a time share 50/50

Sam at SF same tactic applied to El apply to Sam play him 30+ live with what you get.

PF Cross now we got floor spacing with El and Sam setting him and Locke up.

Curry 6th man back him up at the 4&5 if you start him he is in foul trouble.

Faulkner 7th first and only G off bench

Dre 8th for guts and floor burns. Can slide him to SG if you need it.

Wheeler up and down min 9th guy in some games more clock than others

Nobody else plays. Sorry. There is the 8/9 man rotation I am using to secure the 6 seed in the ACC Tourney.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I am on record saying it doesn't matter who starts. This team doesn't have the horses.

Bob's thoughts are hilarious to me. Not saying he is right or wrong but based on the OP Bob is saying do not play the leading scorer and at worst the #2 3pt shooter (probably the best) on the team. It's just funny. Locke should play so I guess Bob is wrong. Maybe not start or start either way but he has to play. He has to play on this team. They can't score at least he can a little bit. Did catch fire vs WF. Don't think the kid would see floor on a vintage UofL team. The guy has 40 3pt hits as a cold shooter this yr. 37% on yr his lowest on a high volume career.

After further review. Bob is wrong bout dat.

FWIW, Marques Maybin said that he thought Locke’s minutes should be seriously scaled back. Feels like he doesn’t do anything well other than shoot. Sees him more as a Ryan McMahon type weapon off the bench.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

FWIW, Marques Maybin said that he thought Locke’s minutes should be seriously scaled back. Feels like he doesn’t do anything well other than shoot. Sees him more as a Ryan McMahon type weapon off the bench.

That is not the worst idea. Whatever it would be, Locke would have to play on this team.

Cards are #127 in adjusted O in Kenpom.

Reducing the top shooter and leading scorer's minutes sounds like a bad plan to me but I respect everyone's opinions.

I believe Locke would look much better if Mack committed to El and Sam as the primary playmakers. But with West unable to create, Sam in and out the first month or so, Locke has forced some terrible shots. Sure he's missed some good looks too. Kind of stuck other times trying to do too much.

Not putting all the blame on others. Locke is not very good. I hate running guys down not what I'm intending to do here.

This is the worst UofL offense I've seen since Rick's first year. Not sure it's even that good.

There are no answers. Just problems.

GO CARDS!

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

. Guys please go and podcast Bobbys portion of his show today. the poster either i'm hoping just forgot to write some things in his post. Or he just did not hear it all.Because Bobby said a few things a bit diffrent from what you read on the post.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I question the coaching changes as well and the different style of play. Like I posted earlier I think Mack got caught up in our whining fans complaining about his style of play was too boring. He should have stuck what was working for him. The coaching change and a change in the style of play probably affected the team chemistry.
However I am not calling for his job I would rather stay the course and see if we work things out. Everybody is saying he isn’t recruiting well but I disagree. He probably has his best recruits coming in next year.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I question the coaching changes as well and the different style of play. Like I posted earlier I think Mack got caught up in our whining fans complaining about his style of play was too boring. He should have stuck what was working for him. The coaching change and a change in the style of play probably affected the team chemistry.
However I am not calling for his job I would rather stay the course and see if we work things out. Everybody is saying he isn’t recruiting well but I disagree. He probably has his best recruits coming in next year.

Good points.

He was a 3 seed with Nwora and Enoch in the washout COVID tourney. I've never heard of a HC completely overhauling an offense overnight. Just strange. Withers can't play the 4 how this new offense needs it played.

Etc, etc, etc.

 

[glassmanJ]

Sorry, I witnessed Bob firsthand at Bellarmine well before the Knights evolved to a Division II power in the GVC, and to their current D1 position. Bob’s conference coaching record was 29-47, hardly any thing to warrant credibility at this level.

so you are saying anyone who has ever coached and did not having a winning record does not have any idea what they are talking about? why do you have idea of what you are talking about or any perosn on this board? have any of you ever coached basketball at the college level? no? then shut the F up!!!! i believe bob is a national game commentator and has seen more games live then every single person on the board combined. he has more knowledge than every single person on this board combined. and somehow all that 40 years of experience and you know more than him. people are fffing morons on this board. i'll take bob's educated opinion and his years of experience over any single comment from anyone on this board. o/w not a single one of you has the experience to make a single comment about roster, coaching or players. because none of you has a winning record either

 

[2330859]

Knuckle: fair question, and actually “IPARTIED” beat me to it. Valvano’s quick knee jerk response about eliminating Malik Willams is rather ridiculous. Granted, his performance of late has been most disappointing, but I believe there is something going on there beyond his ability to contribute. The response about Curry is rather simplistic; and Valvano failed to acknowledge Curry’s powerful rebounding beyond his propensity to dunk over the opponent.

I said it months ago …….Williams needs either Wheeler or Curry on the floor to compensate for Malik’s lack of physicality inside. The Pitt game showed how a wide body opponent like Hugley could not only dominate Malik with his girth, he was more athletic in maneuvering around Williams. I am not a psychologist, but I think he exposed Malik in a way that has effected his confidence. Instead of benching Malik, Mack should have moved him to the wing and brought Curry in at the same time to assume the defensive responsibility on Hugley.

Valvano never suggested this obvious observation, and explains my small amount of respect for Bob’s analysis.

 

[2330859]

No glassman, I have never coached a college basketball team. The extent of my Coaching career was the Girl’s Christian Academy Basketball Team some years ago. Let’s be clear, my reference to Valvano‘s credibility goes well beyond his record at Bellarmine, as my nephew played for him back at that time, and most folks close to that situation would appreciate my discount of Bob’s analysis about college basketball.

I have listened to Bob’s post UL game radio shows, and my impressions of Valvano‘s comments are generally weak and politically correct in the presence of the coach. You may see him as a some incredible resource for college basketball analysis, but you are in a minority, of which most fall within the ESPN political influence.

Think about your own defense of Valvano‘s analysis; is he more qualified than Mack? Is there any evidence that you can point to where Bob has a solution for this UL a roster has any validity?

So far the only thing you have to support Valvano‘s credibility is his having watchEd a lot of games, and his role with ESPN. I am neither impressed with your defense of Valvano nor have you volunteered as to your own college coaching experience.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What Bob is basically saying here is Mack is a complete idiot. Is Bob right?

I don't know. It might sound like Bob's thoughts are minor changes, but they aren't. He's suggesting to remake the entire rotation with a far different path than what the team has used up to this point. Bob suggests completely benching the leading scorer top shooter and reduce the leading rebounder and 2nd leading scorer to spot minutes.

I believe if Mack never played Locke at all; and gave spot minutes (5-10 min per?) to Malik (this is the OP recap of Bob's thoughts), if this was the plan and was carried out from day one, the team would already have a losing record.

We did get a taste of how the team would do without Malik against WKU - Cards got humiliated. The WKU big man put a big stamp on that game. Did Bob miss that game?

To be fair to Bob, this is unforeseen territory here really, this is the worst UofL team in over a decade.

Denial, "They can't be this bad they should be trying to put player A here, player B there, and player C over here, etc etc_____"

 

[ShortCreek]

Valvano is a joke. Other than eat and mumble into a microphone what has the guy done the last twenty years. Without his brother he’d be bagging groceries at Kroger or Meijer.

 

[ShortCreek]

and his “sports show” discusses sports about 40% of the time. Quit listening to it well over a year ago.

 

[Jack Coffee]

The problem with this team is pretty simple...they can't shoot. They miss more wide open shots near the basket and from the 3-point line than any team they've played. To be a good college team you need to shoot 45-35-75 or close to it. We shoot 42-32-70. The women shoot 45-37-74.

 

[earsky]

And I'm sure that when the shots don't fall,guys hang their heads(so to speak) worrying that they won't shine in the eyes of others.
I have to bring this up about once a year,but Rodney McCray barely averaged double figures for his career and was drafted 3rd overall after his Senior year...Let that sink in for a minute.
He shined in so many other ways as the consummate team player,making those around him better with his unselfish play and sacrifice to get the W.
You have to go out and try to find these type of players,which nowdays takes a lot of searching.

 

[CardX]

Sorry, I witnessed Bob firsthand at Bellarmine well before the Knights evolved to a Division II power in the GVC, and to their current D1 position. Bob’s conference coaching record was 29-47, hardly any thing to warrant credibility at this level.

He's also been watching and commenting on Louisville basketball at midcourt from the sidelines for over 20 years. He's more qualified than anyone that posts here.

 

[CardX]

Valvano is a joke. Other than eat and mumble into a microphone what has the guy done the last twenty years. Without his brother he’d be bagging groceries at Kroger or Meijer.

Pretty tasteless.

 

[2330859]

Nice post Jack. If I may, I will qualify your one comment about “can’t shoot”, and suggest that more accurately it is a more a ,case of “having not shot”. I am going from memory here, but it was my understanding that both Locke and Cross arrived from their respective transfers from UF and the “U” with 40% 3 point shooting. In both instances, they have demonstrated that “they can indeed shoot”, they simply have underperformed here at UL.

Totally agree that poor shooting explains a great deal about why this team has struggled, and it goes well beyond just the 3 point shooting, or on Locke and Cross. Withers is the “poster child” of this team in terms of underperforming in comparison to last season, and while JJ has only seen very few minutes early in this season ……. his performance was equally as disappointing as anyone.

Well before the recent emergence of Curry’s contribution, a quick examination of the statistical data showed that both he and Wheeler were well ahead of any others on the roster in terms of shooting percentages and efficiency in minutes played.

Back to Valvano …… his opinion on reducing Malik Williams minutes flies in the face of any of the statistical data available. Williams is averaging 10.5 pts a game and shooting 50% from the field. His 9 rebounds a game is critical to the success of this team. Perhaps Bob was focusing on Malik’s last two disappointing performances, but that would be most short-sighted.

I continue to hope that Mack will play Curry and Malik simultaneously, as I believe they will compliment one another.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Nice post Jack. If I may, I will qualify your one comment about “can’t shoot”, and suggest that more accurately it is a more a ,case of “having not shot”. I am going from memory here, but it was my understanding that both Locke and Cross arrived from their respective transfers from UF and the “U” with 40% 3 point shooting. In both instances, they have demonstrated that “they can indeed shoot”, they simply have underperformed here at UL.

Totally agree that poor shooting explains a great deal about why this team has struggled, and it goes well beyond just the 3 point shooting, or on Locke and Cross. Withers is the “poster child” of this team in terms of underperforming in comparison to last season, and while JJ has only seen very few minutes early in this season ……. his performance was equally as disappointing as anyone.

Well before the recent emergence of Curry’s contribution, a quick examination of the statistical data showed that both he and Wheeler were well ahead of any others on the roster in terms of shooting percentages and efficiency in minutes played.

Back to Valvano …… his opinion on reducing Malik Williams minutes flies in the face of any of the statistical data available. Williams is averaging 10.5 pts a game and shooting 50% from the field. His 9 rebounds a game is critical to the success of this team. Perhaps Bob was focusing on Malik’s last two disappointing performances, but that would be most short-sighted.

I continue to hope that Mack will play Curry and Malik simultaneously, as I believe they will compliment one another.

In this “new” offense, can Malik and Curry play at the same time? And would both of them on the floor only exacerbate our problem of not closing out on shooters and defending the high ball screen?

I guess that’s why Mack gets paid the big bucks - he’s gotta figure it out.

 

[TheRealVille]

Now I disagree with Valvano about Malik but I do believe I know what he meant about the 5th year senior.

I think he sees that although Malik leads the team in scoring through 16 games, the Cards will not get where we all want them to go if that remains the case.

Malik is severely limited offensively and he is and always has been a role player, not a leading scorer. He isn't the number one option on offense and Bob believes the Cards won't succeed if he is.

I agree with this, but he has to play and start. He's very valuable on defense and he can make 3 pointers. I think much of the frustration with Malik is his tendency to let his emotional side effect his game, but more importantly his leadership.

He has not been the same since he got those technicals.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Locke leads the team in scoring not Malik but they are close overall in ppg. I'm still trying to figure out how the team would be better playing Locke 0 minutes like the OP states Bob suggested. That makes no sense. Without Locke the team would be historically bad. If Bob really suggested play Locke 0 minutes I'd like to know how he thinks that would help spacing and offensive output.

But yeah, I agree the team put too much on Malik. He probably needed to be in a time share playing roughly 15-20 min per. I don't consider a time share the same as spot minutes though. Spot minutes is what Wheeler has been getting. I don't think spot minutes for a SR Captain makes much sense.

Nothing makes much sense really. Just get the season over.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Locke leads the team in scoring not Malik but they are close overall in ppg. I'm still trying to figure out how the team would be better playing Locke 0 minutes like the OP states Bob suggested. That makes no sense. Without Locke the team would be historically bad. If Bob really suggested play Locke 0 minutes I'd like to know how he thinks that would help spacing and offensive output.

But yeah, I agree the team put too much on Malik. He probably needed to be in a time share playing roughly 15-20 min per. I don't consider a time share the same as spot minutes though. Spot minutes is what Wheeler has been getting. I don't think spot minutes for a SR Captain makes much sense.

Nothing makes much sense really. Just get the season over.

Bob didn't suggest whatsoever Locke playing o minutes . That's why i stated for you guys to go lsten to the podcast.

 

[2330859]

Red:
Sultan’s OP was very clear, and that is what we are responding to. Using that as the predicate; Valvano identified his starting 5 and it did not include Locke. He then added the 4 players that he would add to that rotation, which also excluded Locke. Valvano’s first recommendation was to shorten the rotation to 8 or 9; simple deductive math eliminates Locke from action.

Ipartied:
As far as my suggestion in playing Curry and Williams at the same time? Yes, Mack would have to make the adjustment to his existing game plan, something he had suggested himself in his post game radio show several games ago. I am not the first, or the only fan who has suggested this combo, and I will not be surprised to see it employed this afternoon.

Ironically, that combination would actually resemble much closer to the model Mack employed while at Xavier. Wide body presence in the paint would go a long way defensively to allow Williams to use his length more effectively.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Ipartied:
As far as my suggestion in playing Curry and Williams at the same time?

Sadly we'll be without Curry tonight.

The hits just keep coming for this team.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Bob didn't suggest whatsoever Locke playing o minutes . That's why i stated for you guys to go lsten to the podcast.

Fair enough. Sounds like Bob is contradicting himself.

It's no big deal this team has so many issues I really don't think rotation lineup shuffles will matter now.

Maybe if a different tactic was tried to start the season we could see some different results.

 

[zipp]

I could add my comments about Valvano since that's partly the subject of this thread, but Valvano's not worth the effort.

I usually leave the Xs and Os to others, and I'm reluctant to question coaches. One thing I don't see discussed that this team looks to me like it needs more than anything is a psychologist. It's doubtful these guys are as bad individually as they look right now. You see fewer airballs chucked in a high school game. Recruiting experts didn't miss on most of them, and Mack can't be this bad of a coach. Reminds me of Petrino's final year.

If someone has ideas how to fix THAT, run with it...

 

[2330859]

One of your most reasonable posts Zipp!

I continue to maintain this roster has talent, and as you say, the recruiting folks who are paid to evaluate potential talent support that conviction. I also maintain that Chris Mack is recognized by most in his profession as a competent college basketball coach. So what is the problem with this UL team, and how can one explain the horrible performance. The recent declining progression over the course of the season is in itself a worthy question that remains unanswered.

My guess is your suggestion about the psychological aspect, or the chemistry of this team may be the closest thing to the truth. Jack’s contributing post about “shooting“ is clearly the answer, but that leads to why has the shooting declined so rapidly, and by so many all at the same time.

 

[Thecycle27]

There is no fixing it. Mack made the decision to change assistants. It appears he didn’t understand what it took to efficiently run Ross’s system. How much film did Mack watch on West, Locke and Cross? None of them fit offensively. West fits defensively but he is too
small. The returning players don’t fit either. In an effort to fix his offense he failed to recruit players that fit the very system he was installing. It is equivalent to switching philosophy in football going from a wishbone to spread. The problem is Mack recruited players that don’t fit his new system. That never ends well. That is a coach that panicked.

That is why he doesn’t know what to do offensively it is not his system. Defensively is another story he know exactly what he wants and still can’t get what he wants. The last 2 years have been handled terribly from a roster management and the actual execution on their master plan.

 

[CardinalDave]

That is an excellent analysis and makes more sense than anything else said in this thread. It is a very sad state of affairs all the way around
(basketball, football, interim President and AD, university money problems and flagging attendance). It is, and will be painful, to watch our hometown university work through these problems BUT there are gifted and bright administrators who have the confidence that they can repair the mess just as there are coaches out there who are confident they have the skill and talent to get the football and basketball teams back to being competitive. It will be a bumpy year or two ahead but IF the proper decisions are made a solid foundation can be built going forward.

 

[zipp]

...Mack made the decision to change assistants...

Do we know that factually, or could he have just agreed to do it? I assume nothing anymore about U of L athletics...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Do we know that factually, or could he have just agreed to do it? I assume nothing anymore about U of L athletics...

Based on what we know about Mack, if he was forced into firing his assistants, he would probably have tape recorded that conversation too. 🤣

 

[Birdie King]

Valvano is a joke. Other than eat and mumble into a microphone what has the guy done the last twenty years. Without his brother he’d be bagging groceries at Kroger or Meijer.

You are sick !

 

[Thecycle27]

Do we know that factually, or could he have just agreed to do it? I assume nothing anymore about U of L athletics...

True, but we do know he made the decision on players and new assistants. Even if he didn’t change none of the players committed change this outcome.

The real question is and nobody knows is recruiting a Mack problem or NCAA problem? How bad is he at evaluating players if this is his recruiting?

 

[2330859]

Let’s all be honest ……. there are no answers that can explain this mess, just a lot of us trying to assign responsibility.

 

[zipp]

Correct, basketball is currently a total systems breakdown. And in a haste to “do something,” my concern is when you don’t fully analyze the source of the problem.

Put another way… I have zero confidence that the current people in charge at U of L, operating the same way, would replace Mack with a better basketball coach—or find another way to improve basketball, for that matter.

We/they could get lucky, but relying on luck ain’t a plan. And assuming a coaching change costs us a lotta money BTW, we don’t have that either.

The one thing I’m pretty confident about is that trust is gone. A single change that is superficially correct won’t bring back fans and financial support to the degree we need it…