Trending: Petrino new QB coach at Missouri.

[Knucklehank1]

Knuckles is struggling to save himself like former Presidents have done who parsed words.

But he's insignificant because it doesn't matter what one guy thinks. I haven't pursued this agenda to prove knuckles wrong. It's about the 99% who claimed these coaches were garbage and 100% responsible for last year's spiral down. Of course, they're being proven wrong...

Well isn’t that funny. I’ve actually done the opposite of parsing words. I stated a clear position, been consistent with that position and let the facts support that position. And many people agreed with my position. Probably somewhere more than 1%.

Dunk.

 

[scottdurham]

Bobby Petrino is at Missouri but not on payroll. Tyler Wilson has spoken to him several times and confirmed it on our local ESPN radio program here in Fort Smith AR. He then got a call from Bobby and he wasn’t happy about Tyler talking about it.

 

[Art79]

Knuckles is struggling to save himself like former Presidents have done who parsed words.

But he's insignificant because it doesn't matter what one guy thinks. I haven't pursued this agenda to prove knuckles wrong. It's about the 99% who claimed these coaches were garbage and 100% responsible for last year's spiral down. Of course, they're being proven wrong...

Where do you get those numbers, 99% and 100%? You just made them up. I do agree with you that many, many fans questioned the quality of the coaching staff. And when the staff contains 3 members of the head coaches own family, none of whom have had P5 coaching jobs previously and are basically just getting into the business, you leave yourself wide open for that type of criticism.

Sorry, but on this topic you have not proven anyone wrong around here. YOU came up with the narrative that 99% of the fans were saying that the coaches would not find new jobs, when the only real narrative that you will find from most who ventured opinions on this site about the staff was simply that they were not qualified for their UofL jobs and that nepotism was a big concern. Any narrative other than that is something that you continue to make up.

 

[zipp]

...the only real narrative that you will find...was simply that they were not qualified for their UofL jobs...

Tempered to make yourself look better. I understand that...

 

[zipp]

Bobby Petrino is at Missouri but not on payroll. Tyler Wilson has spoken to him several times and confirmed it on our local ESPN radio program here in Fort Smith AR. He then got a call from Bobby and he wasn’t happy about Tyler talking about it.

Bobby's not the issue. He's taking it easy on the $4 million this year that "Vince" gave him. Otherwise, he'd likely already have a job too like the rest of his unemployable staff...

 

[gocards1987]

Bobby's not the issue. He's taking it easy on the $4 million this year that "Vince" gave him. Otherwise, he'd likely already have a job too like the rest of his unemployable staff...

Would he have a head coaching job?

 

[Morgantown Card]

And it wasn't all coaching. In fact, I think last year distilled down to a combination of issues that we may never fully understand or be told.

I heard it was because Katina shaved her head and wadd'n hot no mo'. I mean, she was so fiiiiiine before that elite athletes were making college decisions based on her, so they were obviously disappointed.

 

[Mayoman]

Bobby's not the issue. He's taking it easy on the $4 million this year that "Vince" gave him. Otherwise, he'd likely already have a job too like the rest of his unemployable staff...

He gave CBP what the Jurich contract required him to give. Vince did not write that contract as you well know....he merely followed the contract law.

So why the misinformation here stating that Vince gave him $4 Mil. A little disengenous on your part again there mister. That mess started with TJ.

Furthermore, it is not that they got a job already, it is who the job is with; IAW the quality of their new positions that speaks volumes. Not equal to what they had at UofL by any means....but you know that....you just won't admit it...again.

 

[zipp]

He gave CBP what the Jurich contract required him to give. Vince did not write that contract as you well know....he merely followed the contract law.

So why the misinformation here stating that Vince gave him $4 Mil. A little disengenous on your part again there mister. That mess started with TJ.

Furthermore, it is not that they got a job already, it is who the job is with; IAW the quality of their new positions that speaks volumes. Not equal to what they had at UofL by any means....but you know that....you just won't admit it...again.

There's no misinformation except from apologists... Plenty of coaches have their buyouts renegotiated. Here's a recent well publicized one. LINK

Not to mention there's plenty of talk now that Petrino shouldn't be getting paid anything in view of how he left the program. So, who's signing his checks? "Vince" is in charge--time to start giving him credit for things in U of L athletics.

What I won't admit is that the QUALITY of the coaching jobs landed by the prior staff was the narrative. They were widely regarded in this space as junk who couldn't land football jobs. Now, the truth is saying otherwise...

 

[Mayoman]

There's no misinformation except from apologists... Plenty of coaches have their buyouts renegotiated. Here's a recent well publicized one. LINK




Mayo:
One is such a convincing argument.

Renegotiation still takes agreement by both parties.

CBP did not have to accept anything less than the contract stipulated....and If I were him, and likely you too, you would not budge from the stated contract....so much for that type of renegotiation.

CBP can just say, " Negotiate all you want....but pay me what the contract says you owe me." End of negotiation. He was fired not asked to resign in agreement. Pretty clear cut to me.

 

[zipp]

I just gave you a recent one that was well publicized. You said "Vince" had to honor Petrino's contract to the letter, which is obviously not true...

 

[gocards1987]

There's no misinformation except from apologists... Plenty of coaches have their buyouts renegotiated. Here's a recent well publicized one. LINK

Not to mention there's plenty of talk now that Petrino shouldn't be getting paid anything in view of how he left the program. So, who's signing his checks? "Vince" is in charge--time to start giving him credit for things in U of L athletics.

What I won't admit is that the QUALITY of the coaching jobs landed by the prior staff was the narrative. They were widely regarded in this space as junk who couldn't land football jobs. Now, the truth is saying otherwise...

Fine, they weren't total junk. They were mid level G5 and FCS coaches who were in over their heads at a P5 school at our level. Does that make you feel better? Either way they deserved to be fired.

 

[Mayoman]

I just gave you a recent one that was well publicized. You said "Vince" had to honor Petrino's contract to the letter, which is obviously not true...

That is BS and you know it.

A contract unless amended or changed by agreement is a valid, legal contract. And you know better. Nice try at deflection though it failed.

 

[WhatMeWorry]

That is BS and you know it.

A contract unless amended or changed by agreement is a valid, legal contract. And you know better. Nice try at deflection though it failed.

The question is, did VT attempt to negotiate a reduction in the buyout. Apparently, from the example provided, LSU was able to reach an agreement with Les Miles, and I'm sure his was not an isolated case. We will likely never know, but it's a valid question.

 

[Art79]

Hahaha. LOL. Equating the Petrino and Miles situations is one of the funniest things (or maybe the most dishionest thing) that anyone has tried to do on this site. They are not close to the same. Miles had an incentive (more money) to negotiate a revision to his buyout, while Petrino had none.

If Miles’ buyout had remained in place, he would have had to count his salary from his new job against what LSU owed him. He had $6.5 million remaining on the buyout, payable over a few more years. He signed a 5-year deal with Kansas for $2.775 million, and so he would not gotten any more money from LSU without the revised agreement. Of course, LSU also benefitted by cutting $6.5 million down to $1.5 million, so it was a win-win for both parties.

The difference is that the sweetheart deal Petrino signed with UofL contained no such clause that would cut the buyout by any amount that he would receive from a new employer. So he would have had exactly zero incentive to rework a deal that did not provide any protection for UofL.

 

[zipp]

That is BS and you know it.

A contract unless amended or changed by agreement is a valid, legal contract. And you know better. Nice try at deflection though it failed.

No BS. You're using that excuse to defend the actions of your AD. And it's not true. Plenty of legal contracts get challenged everyday. You know it...

 

[zipp]

Fine, they weren't total junk. They were mid level G5 and FCS coaches who were in over their heads at a P5 school at our level. Does that make you feel better? Either way they deserved to be fired.

What makes me feel better is yet more evidence that haters in this space don't know what they're talking about...

 

[zipp]

Hahaha. LOL. Equating the Petrino and Miles situations is one of the funniest things (or maybe the most dishionest thing) that anyone has tried to do on this site. They are not close to the same. Miles had an incentive (more money) to negotiate a revision to his buyout, while Petrino had none.

If Miles’ buyout had remained in place, he would have had to count his salary from his new job against what LSU owed him. He had $6.5 million remaining on the buyout, payable over a few more years. He signed a 5-year deal with Kansas for $2.775 million, and so he would not gotten any more money from LSU without the revised agreement. Of course, LSU also benefitted by cutting $6.5 million down to $1.5 million, so it was a win-win for both parties.

The difference is that the sweetheart deal Petrino signed with UofL contained no such clause that would cut the buyout by any amount that he would receive from a new employer. So he would have had exactly zero incentive to rework a deal that did not provide any protection for UofL.

He had with-cause language in his contract, and there is plenty of discussion NOW that he shouldn't be getting paid because of how he was managing the football program. Deny that??

The language in his contract was also missing on WHEN he was going to be paid. 99 years would have been a good opening position for "Vince"...

 

[Art79]

[QUOTE="zipp, post: 558488, member: 182"...
The language in his contract was also missing on WHEN he was going to be paid. 99 years would have been a good opening position for "Vince"...[/QUOTE]

Back in October that you told us that the entire $14 million buyout had to be paid in one year, in quarterly installments. Now you say we could have started "negotiations" at 99 years. This is one of your constantly changing narratives that's leaving me dizzy.

But again, thanks for bringing up Les Miles, since the way his contract worked (with his buyout being offset by payment from any future employer, providing protection for LSU) is just more evidence of the one-sided contract that was given to Petrino.

 

[BPGhost]

What makes me feel better is yet more evidence that haters in this space don't know what they're talking about...

Eliminate the plurality and this is a response that literally every poster here could use as a response to 99% of your postings.

The irony and lack of self-awareness makes for a hilarious mix.

 

[Morgantown Card]

Either way they deserved to be fired.

Farr that son of a beeyitch.

 

[beantowncard]

No, the former coaches didn't "suck" because coaches who actually suck don't get other coaching jobs a few months after they get fired.

Depends on what you mean by “suck” I suppose. How many jobs did Chan Gaily go through? Mediocrities keep getting fired and hired all the time. Do they really “suck”, or were they just a little under average, and didn’t have the on-field talent to rise above it? FWIW, I was one who put a lot of last year on the players, because the effort level wasn’t there and I hate quitters. But Bobby’s staff clearly deteriorated over his tenure, and last year he just seemed to give up at one point.

 

[beantowncard]

Bobby's not the issue. He's taking it easy on the $4 million this year that "Vince" gave him. Otherwise, he'd likely already have a job too like the rest of his unemployable staff...

Bobby had a
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T
It called for the payout he received.
Vince NQ didn’t “give” Bobby the money. He honored a contract. In that sense, Bobby “earned” the money. Vince NQ did not negotiate that contract.
As far as CBP having a job, I don’t believe the buyout is reduced if he gets another job, so he can cash UofL checks AND somebody else’s checks. He doesn’t have a job because he’s burned more bridges than General Sherman.

 

[BPGhost]

Bobby had a
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T
It called for the payout he received.
Vince NQ didn’t “give” Bobby the money. He honored a contract. In that sense, Bobby “earned” the money. Vince NQ did not negotiate that contract.
As far as CBP having a job, I don’t believe the buyout is reduced if he gets another job, so he can cash UofL checks AND somebody else’s checks. He doesn’t have a job because he’s burned more bridges than General Sherman.

Seriously doubt that petrino will ever be a HC at a P5 school again. The question is - after being in charge for as long as he has - is he ruined for working for someone else productively?

 

[Morgantown Card]

Seriously doubt that petrino will ever be a HC at a P5 school again.

The Sports Illustrated article alleges (and gives evidence) that he tanked on purpose in order to get his $14M buyout. If other programs believe this to be true, or fear it may be true, then that's not a great resume' builder for future employers who potentially may get to pay him a buyout for purposely tanking.

 

[zipp]

...Back in October that you told us that the entire $14 million buyout had to be paid in one year, in quarterly installments. Now you say we could have started "negotiations" at 99 years. This is one of your constantly changing narratives that's leaving me dizzy.

But again, thanks for bringing up Les Miles, since the way his contract worked (with his buyout being offset by payment from any future employer, providing protection for LSU) is just more evidence of the one-sided contract that was given to Petrino.

Wrong again... I said nothing about "one year". I said it might be argued that was implied by the language that's there, "quarterly installments" and whether that means one-fourth or four times a year.

Miles is getting less money than he could have received, and that's my point. You said that type of outcome wasn't possible, and you're obviously wrong...

 

[zipp]

Eliminate the plurality and this is a response that literally every poster here could use as a response to 99% of your postings.

The irony and lack of self-awareness makes for a hilarious mix.

Guy who introduces himself to people whom he thinks don't know what they're talking about...

 

[zipp]

Depends on what you mean by “suck” I suppose. How many jobs did Chan Gaily go through? Mediocrities keep getting fired and hired all the time. Do they really “suck”, or were they just a little under average, and didn’t have the on-field talent to rise above it? FWIW, I was one who put a lot of last year on the players, because the effort level wasn’t there and I hate quitters. But Bobby’s staff clearly deteriorated over his tenure, and last year he just seemed to give up at one point.

I've already laid out what would constitute good evidence on the opposite side of this debate... Show me a staff of recently fired coaches who land equivalent football jobs to the ones they were just fired from.

The one guy who replied gave me a list for former assistants, two-thirds of which were working in lesser jobs. And presumably that was the best example out there.

So I think I'll stand by my conclusion about those making their "suck" assessment based on these coaches getting future jobs. We simply have guys pounding the table here who don't know what they're talking about.

Bobby had a
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T
It called for the payout he received.
Vince NQ didn’t “give” Bobby the money. He honored a contract. In that sense, Bobby “earned” the money. Vince NQ did not negotiate that contract.
As far as CBP having a job, I don’t believe the buyout is reduced if he gets another job, so he can cash UofL checks AND somebody else’s checks. He doesn’t have a job because he’s burned more bridges than General Sherman.

The argument wasn't about Petrino, it was about his staff. His assistants were the ones allegedly way underqualified.

And "Vince" took the easy way out and backed up the Brinks truck. You'd think he had all kinds of money rolling in...

 

[Art79]

Wrong again... I said nothing about "one year". I said it might be argued that was implied by the language that's there, "quarterly installments" and whether that means one-fourth or four times a year.

Miles is getting less money than he could have received, and that's my point. You said that type of outcome wasn't possible, and you're obviously wrong...

You can revise what you posted previously all you want to make yourself feel better.

But concerning Miles, you are absolutely wrong. He was due 6.5 million more from LSU. If he works just 2 years at Kansas, a pretty reasonable assumption on his part, he already comes out ahead, 1.5 million + 2.775 million (year 1) + 2.775 million (year 2). On the other hand, Petrino has no reason to bargain, he gets $14 million guaranteed, and any salary anyone else wants to pay him is on top of that. A real sweetheart deal for Bobby. It's that simple, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I've already laid out what would constitute good evidence on the opposite side of this debate... Show me a staff of recently fired coaches who land equivalent football jobs to the ones they were just fired from.

The one guy who replied gave me a list for former assistants, two-thirds of which were working in lesser jobs. And presumably that was the best example out there.

So I think I'll stand by my conclusion about those making their "suck" assessment based on these coaches getting future jobs. We simply have guys pounding the table here who don't know what they're talking about.

The argument wasn't about Petrino, it was about his staff. His assistants were the ones allegedly way underqualified.

And "Vince" took the easy way out and backed up the Brinks truck. You'd think he had all kinds of money rolling in...

Actually I used Brett Belima’s Arkansas staff and Mike MacIntyre’s Colorado staff as examples. And more than 2/3 landed P5 jobs. Get your facts straight! DUNK!

 

[zipp]

You can revise what you posted previously all you want to make yourself feel better.

But concerning Miles, you are absolutely wrong. He was due 6.5 million more from LSU. If he works just 2 years at Kansas, a pretty reasonable assumption on his part, he already comes out ahead, 1.5 million + 2.775 million (year 1) + 2.775 million (year 2). On the other hand, Petrino has no reason to bargain, he gets $14 million guaranteed, and any salary anyone else wants to pay him is on top of that. A real sweetheart deal for Bobby. It's that simple, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

Do you want me to keep posting examples like this where you and other "Vince" apologists are wrong?

Jim McElwain

Just google "coach buyout negotiation", and you'll get plenty of hits. So why is there anything to "negotiate" if as beano says these contracts are ironclad?

Unless they aren't. Apologists??...

 

[BPGhost]

Guy who introduces himself to people whom he knows don't know what they're talking about...

FIFY

 

[zipp]

FIFY

Guy who introduces himself to people he thinks can't express themselves accurately...

 

[zipp]

You can revise what you posted previously all you want to make yourself feel better.

But concerning Miles, you are absolutely wrong. He was due 6.5 million more from LSU. If he works just 2 years at Kansas, a pretty reasonable assumption on his part, he already comes out ahead, 1.5 million + 2.775 million (year 1) + 2.775 million (year 2). On the other hand, Petrino has no reason to bargain, he gets $14 million guaranteed, and any salary anyone else wants to pay him is on top of that. A real sweetheart deal for Bobby. It's that simple, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

Do you want me to keep posting examples like this where you and other "Vince" apologists are wrong?

Jim McElwain

Just google "coach buyout negotiation", and you'll get plenty of hits. So why is there anything to "negotiate" if as beano says these contracts are ironclad?

Unless they aren't. Apologists??...

 

[PushupMan]

... Or just maybe Vince decided that all of his lawyers were too busy cleaning up Jurich and Pitino’s messes, so he decided to honor the contract as it was written instead of hiring even more lawyers to find a way to negotiate a less one-sided buyout than what was called for in the contract.

Let me know when you find the link indicating that the Florida and/or LSU ADs are dealing with defending itself from a lawsuit filed by Sergeant Schulz, who apparently knew nothing about shoe companies paying players, even though he coached at Kentucky for a decade.

 

[gocards1987]

Do you want me to keep posting examples like this where you and other "Vince" apologists are wrong?

Jim McElwain

Just google "coach buyout negotiation", and you'll get plenty of hits. So why is there anything to "negotiate" if as beano says these contracts are ironclad?

Unless they aren't. Apologists??...

Florida tried to fire with with cause at first because of a compromising photo which wasn't him then tried to fire him with cause because he failed to tell the school about death threats he and the players received. More than likely they were going to accuse him of lying about the death threats or say that he endangered players by not telling anyone before so they negotiated a buyout that was more than half of what he was owed. McElwain was ready to go and UF wanted him gone. They still paid 7.5 or 13 million. The more info that comes out about Petrino the more it sounds like he was willing to crater the program to get his buyout. It would have been nice if he lied about death threats, I guess. We could have saved some money.

 

[zipp]

... Or just maybe Vince decided that all of his lawyers were too busy cleaning up Jurich and Pitino’s messes, so he decided to honor the contract as it was written instead of hiring even more lawyers to find a way to negotiate a less one-sided buyout than what was called for in the contract.

Let me know when you find the link indicating that the Florida and/or LSU ADs are dealing with defending itself from a lawsuit filed by Sergeant Schulz, who apparently knew nothing about shoe companies paying players, even though he coached at Kentucky for a decade.

"Vince" is great at choosing which battles he wants to fight, e.g., NCAA banners. Unfortunately, he's not real convincing on why/how he makes those choices.

I don't need to unearth any evidence exonerating The Master. The FBI and their targets are doing a pretty damn good job...

 

[zipp]

Florida tried to fire with with cause at first because of a compromising photo which wasn't him then tried to fire him with cause because he failed to tell the school about death threats he and the players received. More than likely they were going to accuse him of lying about the death threats or say that he endangered players by not telling anyone before so they negotiated a buyout that was more than half of what he was owed. McElwain was ready to go and UF wanted him gone. They still paid 7.5 or 13 million. The more info that comes out about Petrino the more it sounds like he was willing to crater the program to get his buyout. It would have been nice if he lied about death threats, I guess. We could have saved some money.

I didn't ask for a backstory. Is there evidence that McElwain was intentionally running the Florida football program into the dirt as Petrino allegedly did?

All I need to show is that there are circumstances for contract buyouts that result in a negotiated/lower payment.

Life is a series of choices. And "Vince" simply CHOSE to pay Petrino $14 million from U of L bank accounts...

 

[Art79]

Do you want me to keep posting examples like this where you and other "Vince" apologists are wrong?

Jim McElwain

Just google "coach buyout negotiation", and you'll get plenty of hits. So why is there anything to "negotiate" if as beano says these contracts are ironclad?

Unless they aren't. Apologists??...

Nice try “Zipp”, but the McElwain example is another swing and a miss. Do you not read what you link? In this case, you linked a story about his buyout with Florida that has the least amount of details of any story I’ve seen about the case, but it does contain the basic fact that led to his settlement: “… the school negotiated an agreement - presumably because McElwain failed to provide evidence to support his Oct. 23 claim (at a press conference) he, his family, staff and players had received death threats from the UF fan base.” The reason that this became an issue is that Florida was going to use that to justify a “for cause” firing on the grounds that if McElwain’s claim of death threats was real, and he then failed to report them to Florida administration officials, even when he was subsequently asked by them, then he failed in his duty to protect his players. So, McElwain settled since he was in danger of not receiving any of his buyout money from Florida, as well as having Florida not continue with their portion of his buyout to Colordao State from his buyout there when he got the Florida job. It was a circus, and I’m sorry you seem to not remember it or understand all of this.

When you cited the Les Miles case as an example, I’ll consider that strike 1 on this topic. Now, McElwain is strike 2. Care to try for strike 3? Or maybe you can come up with some real rationale for Petrino to make a deal concerning the buyout, but we haven’t seen a good reason yet. You should just give it up while you are so far behind on this silly argument.

 

[Knucklehank1]

"Vince" is great at choosing which battles he wants to fight, e.g., NCAA banners. Unfortunately, he's not real convincing on why/how he makes those choices.

I don't need to unearth any evidence exonerating The Master. The FBI and their targets are doing a pretty damn good job...

“The Master”?? Lol. Yeah, the tapes where Pitino is discussed is a real ringing endorsement. Sheesh.