The narrative in mid 2017 wasn't that a third of our coaches were underperforming or had image problems. That's the narrative now...
There is a lot of chatter about UT making a strong run at Walz.
- Thread starter CardX
- Start date
And the narrative about Jerry Sandusky wasn’t that he was a bad guy until circa 2015... plus, there were quite a few people that didn’t want Bobby back at all. Quite a few people wanted rick gone after Powell in 2016. The public doesn’t know what happens behind closed doors. I think if we knew, some these coaches would have been out under Tom.
Hey "zipp", why don't you list us all of Jurich's mistakes (uh, there's plenty) as AD. I'm curious how you'll twist/spin that?
Walz has made more than one comment about not coaching forever. I’m not worried it’s not the first time he’s been mentioned for the UT gig. He’s got a top 4 program in the country right now and UTs a mess. Why put yourself through a rebuild when your competing year to year in a fantastic arena, with the fan support, in an outstanding conference. And he’s not far from his family in Northern KY. Just don’t see the draw anymore.
You mean mistakes judged in context or in hindsight?
There aren't that many even if you're Monday morning quarterbacking...
Seriously, child molester? We don't run a boy scout troop or a church choir. What happens "behind closed doors" needs to stay there unless it bears on their job performance.
Petrino was one coach among 20-plus, and I doubt seriously that a majority of people wanted him gone prior to last season.
One-third of the coaching staff needing to be purged is a 2019 narrative to suit your circumstances, nothing else...
The comparison to Sandusky was more based on the abusive lacrosse coach we fired. But again, this is simply an issue of agenda Zipp. Coaches get fired/leave for a litany of reasons. The only coach that you could argue left because of the regime change was Lolla, and that is a stretch. You’re building a straw man argument. These coaches haven’t been leaving or being fired because of issues with the new regime. I would argue that all but 1 (Lolla) was based on job performance or behavior.
The problem with your approach is you have to convince someone by rationalizing data points. Statistics are simple data analysis. You don't micro-analyze each data point, or you don't end up analyzing anything. The numbers are what they are.
"Vince" has had to hire TWICE as many coaches in his first year on the job as we hired in any one year the last two decades. That is A FACT. You just can't explain that fact in a way you like, and I can't help you with that except to comment on how you're trying.
And to compound your problem, this is exactly a result that people like me were afraid of when "Vince" commandeered the job. You could argue it's confirmation or validation of that concern...
Data without context is meaningless. You can conplain about coaching turnover all you want but there were back stories to the firings and you have to look at that also when reviewing data. My job has seasonal workers and a bunch of them just left. They are listed in our list of employees who left but arent held against the manager cause they were seasonal and temporary. Thats makes since to me since you knew they werent staying when you hired them.
According to you though they should because data is data and you cant put context to it. The same applies to most of the coaches. Its not Tyra’s fault Petrino was terrible nor was it his fault the lacrosse coach had abuse allegations against her. Im guessing Todd Sharp was one of the 6 and he was accused of stealing money.
Ok sure. I’m rationalizing data. What is your assertion from the data?
Because if you tell me that the data supports coaches don’t want to work with Tyra, then you are doing the same thing that you’re accusing me of, and making up an arbitrary reason why we have 6 new coaches to fit an agenda that doesn’t make sense.
“Big Data Zipp”! Only a supercomputer can handle those 6 data points.
All I can say is he has the right name. zipp I.E. zero.
Do those seasonal workers flow in and out each season? If so, you simply look at one season vs the other. Data seasonality is easy to adjust for.
There is no comparable factor at work with hiring coaches...
The data indicate something significant has changed. Some of you guys wanna argue it's business as usual, and that's far from the case. It's like a 12-step program, the first step is recognition of a problem...
Yes, there was a problem with the way things were being run from 2013-2016... Do we need to go through all of the messy details of the last 3 years?
The issue then is you don't get to simply insert your explanation for why. You don't know if "the way things were being run from 2013-2016" has anything to do with it. Where's your evidence for that connection?...
A vacated national championship attributed to illegal recruiting practices, money being stolen from the lady birds, women’s lacrosse players being abused by a coach, a football coach accepting a stolen playbook from another team prior to the game, need I go on?
I will say though, if you’re unbiased enough to admit that the loss of coaches is just a neutral change, not good or bad, I think that’s reasonable.
Yeah, you need to connect those dots to why coaches in unrelated sports are no longer employed. And none of whom have said a word about any of your reasons.
Those are excuses to cover for people not performing...
This is my last statement on the matter... I’m pretty sure you just called that exact action as “rationalizing data points”. I gave the reason for 4 of the 6 coaches being terminated and you said that doesn’t apply. So just see my first post in the thread #36.
So then we need an entirely different chart with a different set of data points showing whether coaches left of their own volition or not. There is one or 2 coaches that left with it being their choice. The others were fired for one reason or another. I guess you could blame Tyra for being to harsh but out bball program just went through 2 major scandals and our football program was tanking with a few issues of its own. Imo its not a negative to fire a coach for losing, cheating, theft, or abuse.
Unwilling to face facts and be honest with yourself. As well as unwilling to answer the question. Blind faith - it’s a dangerous thing.
Let me help:
*Hired Kragthorpe
*Didn’t Fire Petrino after secret Auburn meeting
*Didn’t fire Pitino after Porcini’s
*Didn’t fire Pitino after McGee fiasco
*Didn’t fire Pitino after Jordan Fair mess
*Hired Bobby 2.0
*Allowed 2.0 to hire entire family
*Signed 2.0 to ludicrous contract
*Hired his son Mark within his athletic department
*Expanded the football stadium to the tune of $63 million on seats we can’t sell.
“zipp”, I’m sure I’m leaving a bunch out. If you won’t help maybe some of the other posters will remind me of other “mistakes” I’ve overlooked!
*Hired Kragthorpe
*Didn’t Fire Petrino after secret Auburn meeting
*Didn’t fire Pitino after Porcini’s
*Didn’t fire Pitino after McGee fiasco
*Didn’t fire Pitino after Jordan Fair mess
*Hired Bobby 2.0
*Allowed 2.0 to hire entire family
*Signed 2.0 to ludicrous contract
*Hired his son Mark within his athletic department
*Expanded the football stadium to the tune of $63 million on seats we can’t sell.
“zipp”, I’m sure I’m leaving a bunch out. If you won’t help maybe some of the other posters will remind me of other “mistakes” I’ve overlooked!
“zipp”, crickets??? The truth hurts doesn’t it? And, I’m a Jurich guy. I’ll never forget his ability to grow the athletic program and get us in the ACC. But, not admitting reality? You’re a blind Jurich follower. At the end of the day I’m a UofL Cardinal, I’ve moved on. You need to do the same.
The data are what they are. You're trying to throw them all out. That's rationalizing data points you don't like...
The basketball coaches aren't included in the numbers for "Vince". He had six coaches to replace in 2018, and Pitino was replaced in 2017.
U of L was exposed to marketplace factors with athletics and coaching before "Vince" got here. Real world data aren't biased if external factors aren't erratic and uneven. "Vince" is seeing more coaching turnover, and that's a fact. Sorry...
No, you didn't answer my question. I asked if you were judging mistakes in context or in hindsight. And from your list, you were obviously whipping out your crystal ball.
Find me a list of people who called those "mistakes" when the decisions were made. And then I'll come up with the answers you want.
I don't expect an AD to be able to predict the future with precision. So I'm not explaining their lack of ability to do so...
You don't think ADs should be able to have some idea how their decisions will work out in the future? Its good to know that if Mack and Satterfield were to fail that you would not criticize tyra for it because how would he know that they wouldn't be successful, he can't predict the future.
You wanna judge someone's decision making in hindsight. That's garbage when the decisions weren't questioned when they were made...
“zipp”, I agree with gocards1987. How else are you judged? What planet are you on?
Let’s take your favorite whipping boy, you know “Vince” or fanboy. Take your pick. When is the proper time to call one of his hires a flop? Ok, “zipp” make the call on Satterfield right now! Is this a mistake? Good hire, great hire or horrible hire? Make your call so you’ll be on record. I’m waiting.
I find it comical that I listed all the Jurich blunders and you can’t defend your boy “Tommy”. He had a ton of warts and you’re ragging fans on here because we didn’t call it at the exact moment each of his mistakes occurred? Are you serious or delirious?
I honestly question what means more to you, UofL’s athletic success or you being correct occasionally on some of your topics on this message board. Given you’re about to have 41,000 posts I think I know the answer.
Last edited:
Good one teamcanada. Forgot that one. Of course, we had to call that on Smrt’s initial hire date, lol...
You're not tracking the arguments correctly.
"Vince" didn't make bad hires with Satterfield and Mack regardless of how they turn out. Those coaches weren't suspect when they were hired, and I never said that. They weren't the great hires that some fans wanna claim. Satterfield was an OK hire in the aftermath of Brohm, and Mack is doing well against the schedule so far.
I've said many times that these issues distill down to money and wins. Those are issues by which "Vince" will be judged...
I'll be happy for Zipp when TJ finds another job so he will have a team to cheer for
Let's not forget, other than Chris Mack (who fell right into his lap), the "successful businessman" has yet to hire his first choice for any of the positions that came open (well, except maybe lacrosse, which promptly had its first losing season in six years).
JP
I guess thats my issue....everyone is all the sudden women's basketball fans. Does anyone really enjoy it....or is it because they are good. I've tried to watch it and just can't. Do love volleyball though. Men's and women's
