Ron English ran a 4-2-5 Purdue was ranked 33/34 defense
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The reason teams are going to 3-3-5 is offenses and personnel. The Big Ten is a ground and pound. There aren’t many spread offenses in the Big Ten. The ACC is a mix but lean more on the spread.
It boils down can you find enough big uglies to feed a 4 man front. That is a huge challenge. Finding legit edge rushers is another concern. 3-3-5 you can get away with smaller fronts by being disciplined with your pressures.
We will see what he does on defense but that is my main concern with Brohm.
It boils down can you find enough big uglies to feed a 4 man front. That is a huge challenge. Finding legit edge rushers is another concern. 3-3-5 you can get away with smaller fronts by being disciplined with your pressures.
We will see what he does on defense but that is my main concern with Brohm.
I agree that the 3-3-5 and the 3-4 are designed to get more speed on the field and to offset the struggle of recruiting huge down linemen.
4-2-5 or 3-3-5? The common denominator here is the 5. But how do you arrange your front if you use 5 DBs? There are basically only 2 choices: 4-2 or 3-3.
Naturally thy are both good with good players but I personally prefer the 4-2-5. I think you can play that with a "smaller" front but you need more quickness. I also think that 4 down offers more stunt options than 3 down.
Peace
Naturally thy are both good with good players but I personally prefer the 4-2-5. I think you can play that with a "smaller" front but you need more quickness. I also think that 4 down offers more stunt options than 3 down.
Peace
Having played D (and coached a little), it doesn't make much difference. Very rarely are you going to have just 3 linemen/rushers. So there's usually going to be at least 4 or more on the line anyway. It's just a question of where they come from. As long as you cover the wideouts and have assignments over the middle (run and pass), you can do all sorts of things on the line. All you really need is for everyone to be on the same page.
You know I thought Ron English did an ok job, defense was improved from Mike Cassity's last year, then again if we judge coordinators who worked for HWSNBN, then Jeff would being coming here. Still to this day, I can't figure out how the defense was so bad in 2007, First play on offense against Murray, we score a touchdown! Then Murray marched down the field like we were hot butter. Not to give anyone bad dreams, then there was Stevie got loose and the first pass Syracuse made. Sorry for the bad memories.... Not going to blame Mike for all of that either, was fortunate to go through a buffet line with Mr. Cassity during the 2018 season, he could not believe what happen to Bobby's team then.
Yes, the one thing we've been missing is the big "clog up the middle" and occupy two or more blockers type of D lineman. If we can get a good one, it opens up a lot more for the rest of the defense. They're not as easy to find as one would hope.
This would be my question about Ron English, can he adjust to a faster game in the ACC?
English has always seemed to do well in more physical contests. The Big 10 West was a LOS division and QB play wasn’t really the thing.
English has always seemed to do well in more physical contests. The Big 10 West was a LOS division and QB play wasn’t really the thing.
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Something tells me that with Jeff bringing in Stephen Herron, who is listed as an Edge rusher, that we will see a variation of the 4-2-5 and not the traditional 4 down DL. Jeff mentioned how important it is to put pressure on the opposing QB..
The myth is that size vs quickness is a choice between one or the other …… in reality you can have both; just look at Michigan, UGA and Alabama. A 6’ tall NG, or DT at 300 lbs, will not have the weight, speed and quickness to defeat these opponents with large offensive lines. Now you see these 6’4” to 6’6” DL-men at 340+ Lbs who have both weight and long legs that combine size and speed to counter opponents like UK who rely on their large OL with RBs capable of running through smaller defensive lines like ours.
Freshman DT Deone Walker is 6’6” tall and arrived at UK at 350 Lbs from Detroit …… that is how you recruit defensive lineman. The large urban cities have more kids, consequently they will produce more BIG kids.
Jeff learned a lot in these last few years at Purdue and I expect he will be spending time In Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Indianapolis as well as Lousiville looking for bigger lineman on both sides of the football.
Freshman DT Deone Walker is 6’6” tall and arrived at UK at 350 Lbs from Detroit …… that is how you recruit defensive lineman. The large urban cities have more kids, consequently they will produce more BIG kids.
Jeff learned a lot in these last few years at Purdue and I expect he will be spending time In Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Indianapolis as well as Lousiville looking for bigger lineman on both sides of the football.
Its not a myth... but if you go with the big DL, you can't just have your starters, you have to have backups too because these guys get winded fast. Thats why its difficult to have a traditional 4 man DL, because you almost have to have 8 big DL.
Both the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 are nickel defenses. The 4-2-5 is recognized as the "traditional" nickel defense.
Ben Perry will like this scheme better. He’s been wanting to go back to being a DB. Although he will really just be a hybrid safety/backer in or around the box.
The 4-2-5 is basic defensive scheme that utilizes 5 DBs, instead of the more commonplace 4 DB in the basic package. The Nickel is simply a reference to a defensive substitution referring to placing a 5th DB on the field in exchange of a a DL or LB. IOW, the "Nicke"l is simply a reference to a defensive alignment incorporating a 5th DB.
In recent years the proliferation of "spread formation football" has popularized gettin a 5th DB on the field most of the time. The base 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 alignments are the basic "5 DB" defensive schemes that do just that.
I don't know who created either scheme but Gary Patterson (now retired) popularized the 4-2-5 at TCU.
Peace
The 3-3-5 is mainly a college scheme. It is all about personnel.
Half the NFL teams use 3-4 and the other half is 4-3. Nickel is when they shift in a CB for a LB. Technically a 4-2-5 is a nickel defense.
The way they are recruiting DL is encouraging. They did it at Purdue as well.
Half the NFL teams use 3-4 and the other half is 4-3. Nickel is when they shift in a CB for a LB. Technically a 4-2-5 is a nickel defense.
The way they are recruiting DL is encouraging. They did it at Purdue as well.
We were a 3-3-5 seemingly deep with contributors along that front three this season...finally. I'd add deeper with health to Diaby than we had been in prior years and a maturing Gillotte. Our NT was by committee and I think it's important to note that part of that Committee was a 3rd stringer that just announced he was transferring to Florida. I don't think anybody would have believed we'd see something like that after the BC game. I said it back during the season but at the mid turn that was the Pitt game Yassir Abdullah started as good a four game run as I've seen at Louisville for a defensive player since Dumervil's 2005 season that is the Gold Standard for every player in the Louisville front seven until the End of Time. Everybody that didn't choose him for Conference Defensive Player of the Year should abdicate any future vote.
But the personnel positioning is going to change significantly and so is the scheme. Gillotte is probably a better fit as a strongside DE in a Down 4 scheme than as a four point shading an OT like he has been and I think you likely will see the same type of move for Mason Reiger. Lole would have been better suited as DT than an NT. We go from needing occupants and space cloggers at NT to needing gap shooters at DT. Lole's return becomes important if it materializes. On a personnel level if we're being honest guys like Herron (and I'm not counting on him yet, just citing as an example) and Popeye are more 2 point OLBs...do they become DEs with their hands down I'm guessing on the weakside opposite Gillotte? Sign me up all day for landing Gilbert if we can and the news about Hagen is a big boost. We aren't supposed to covet thy neighbor, but it's okay to covet Nic Carraway as a DE, and Hagen's presence was a big part of him going to West Lafayette out of Texas. Judging by his game against Indiana they would be glad to not see him on the schedule. Stupid Hoosiers we play you in mid-September.
...and that isn't even to mention LB. Once Sonogo was fully healthy along with Montgomery they were god sends in the same stretch where Abdullah was so dominant, and probably not coincidentally. While I heard about some sort of appeal to get Montgomery back I'll assume his eligibility is exhausted and thankful we got Perry to recant but he's a player with an interesting frame...the 5 in most of your 5 man defensive backfields is a grown up safety and his is one position that probably doesn't change much in scheme; I suspect somebody was able to make that case to him in the week since Satterfield and Bryan Brown took their wares to Cincinnati. We need more like him; I love his activity level and he arrives with a quality payload. Dorian Jones is a big loss in my opinion; the Mike in a 4-2-5 is usually your biggest tackler and generally bigger than what you see in a 3-3-5 or a 3-4. Ironically I think a better fit for what we will run vs. what UC will but it sounds like Nicholson had a big impact with him. Portal transfers are probably a big focus now.
But the personnel positioning is going to change significantly and so is the scheme. Gillotte is probably a better fit as a strongside DE in a Down 4 scheme than as a four point shading an OT like he has been and I think you likely will see the same type of move for Mason Reiger. Lole would have been better suited as DT than an NT. We go from needing occupants and space cloggers at NT to needing gap shooters at DT. Lole's return becomes important if it materializes. On a personnel level if we're being honest guys like Herron (and I'm not counting on him yet, just citing as an example) and Popeye are more 2 point OLBs...do they become DEs with their hands down I'm guessing on the weakside opposite Gillotte? Sign me up all day for landing Gilbert if we can and the news about Hagen is a big boost. We aren't supposed to covet thy neighbor, but it's okay to covet Nic Carraway as a DE, and Hagen's presence was a big part of him going to West Lafayette out of Texas. Judging by his game against Indiana they would be glad to not see him on the schedule. Stupid Hoosiers we play you in mid-September.
...and that isn't even to mention LB. Once Sonogo was fully healthy along with Montgomery they were god sends in the same stretch where Abdullah was so dominant, and probably not coincidentally. While I heard about some sort of appeal to get Montgomery back I'll assume his eligibility is exhausted and thankful we got Perry to recant but he's a player with an interesting frame...the 5 in most of your 5 man defensive backfields is a grown up safety and his is one position that probably doesn't change much in scheme; I suspect somebody was able to make that case to him in the week since Satterfield and Bryan Brown took their wares to Cincinnati. We need more like him; I love his activity level and he arrives with a quality payload. Dorian Jones is a big loss in my opinion; the Mike in a 4-2-5 is usually your biggest tackler and generally bigger than what you see in a 3-3-5 or a 3-4. Ironically I think a better fit for what we will run vs. what UC will but it sounds like Nicholson had a big impact with him. Portal transfers are probably a big focus now.
I thought the same thing with Jones. He is much better fit in a 4-2 but he know their system. It is the nature of the portal.
