POLL: Time to Cast YOUR Vote for QB

[ajgcardman]

Election time, campaigning complete. Time to vote. Comments optional.

I'll start by saying I voted Lamar based on his performance in games. Wouldn't start anyone that is <100% healthy, because competition that close.

 

[beasleythecard]

Election time, campaigning complete. Time to vote. Comments optional.

I'll start by saying I voted Lamar based on his performance in games. Wouldn't start anyone that is <100% healthy, because competition that close.

If we are going to win this year the choice is Bolin, if we are preparing for next year Jackson.

 

[ajgcardman]

If we are going to win this year the choice is Bolin, if we are preparing for next year Jackson.

Lamar has a lot of shortcomings, and a lot to learn. But, despite all that, he still seems to produce just as well, if not better, virtually everywhere. Yet, for a large sector of the fan base, for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to get any credit for it.

I keep hearing the following:

1) "Kyle is a better passer & more accurate"...

Yet, LJ's completion % on the year is 57.9% to Kyle's 57.1%; and LJ has 8 TD passes on 74 possessions (1 every 9.3 possessions), while Kyle has only 1 TD pass on 19 possessions. And their interception rates are virtually identical with LJ throwing 1 every 26 passes, and Kyle throwing 1 every 28 passes (ironically, if you were to excuse LJ's first one on that gadget play to start the year, his would be 1 out of 31, but you can't, but still shows how close that stat is, although most fans think LJ throws them much more often when he really doesn't). Why do so many fans ignore this?

2) "Kyle is just a much more polished & efficient QB"...

Yet, LJ's seasonal Quarterback Passer Rating (QPR) is 126.3, while Kyle's is 120.8. LJ's season-high QPR of 165.3 was achieved last Friday night, yet much of the fan base seems to recall that performance as "bad," with some suggesting he wasn't really hurt, but benched for poor play. His incredibly high-rated 1st half numbers of 16-21, 198 yds, 2 Tds, 0 INT, 9.4 ypa went virtually unnoticed. And he did it without being the enormous running threat he normally is because of a gimpy ankle. Why do so many fans ignore this?

3) "The running game, as a whole, is much better with Kyle up under center"...

Yet, when LJ has been at QB, we've rushed 215 times for 893 yards (4.15 ypc), and when KB has been at QB, we've rushed 41 times for 85 yards (2.1 ypc). OK, everbody knows that Lamar runs it a lot more and a lot better than Kyle, and that sack yards are a part of rushing stats in CFB. Therefore, remove ALL QB rushes & rushing yards, because "everyone knows that the RBs run much more effectively for us under center for Kyle, than from the shotgun for Lamar." Or do they? When doing that, we find RB rushing under LJ as QB to be 409 yards on 103 carries (3.97 ypc), and under Kyle to be 134 yards on 34 carries (3.9 ypc). Again, virtually identical. And before anybody says anything about FCS Samford, I COMPLETELY REMOVED those numbers from these stats, a game where we rushed for 288 yards!
Why do so many fans ignore this?

4) "Lamar is really athletic and young, but he is NOT improving"...

Yet, here are his numbers from 1st to last game (and yes, I removed FCS Samford from the list altogether):

Team QBR Comp% YPA

Auburn 77.0 45% 5.0
Houston 112.6 63% 6.2
@NC St 81.3 37% 3.8
@FSU 153.4 57% 8.8
BC 121.3 60% 9.2
@wake 165.3 73% 8.0

I haven't provided a graph of those numbers, but if you created one, for each category, and plotted a trend line, you will clearly see substantial improvement over time in these critical "passing" categories. All 3 of them. We should be really encouraged, yet so many aren't. Why do so many fans ignore this?

5) "Lamar might have a bright future, but we need to win now, and we're just better offensively right now with Kyle, because we operate more smoothly"...

Yet, LJ has led us to scores on 27 of 74 possessions this year (36.4%), achieving 2.12 points per possession, while Kyle has led us to 4 scores on 19 possessions (21.1%), scoring 1.26 ppp. Even when you remove the Samford game from LJ, when he directed scores on 7 of 11 possessions, he's still led us to scores against FBS teams on 20 of 63 possessions (31.7%). I even read a post recently that tried to show this stat as Kyle being more productive, but to do so, the poster eliminated things from the equation like missed FGs, fumbles, and a series where there were no passes. WTF?? I understand most of Kyle's possessions were against Clemson, but playing against defenses of the likes of #1 BC, and on the road @#10 NC St, @#27 FSU, and @#31Wake aren't exactly walks in the park either, especially for an 18-yr old true freshman who did NOT go through Spring practice. Why do so many fans ignore this?

This is NOT intended to be a hit piece toward Kyle. Great kid, great competitor, great leader. He can be my QB anytime, and would get my unwavering support. But why all the "lack" of support and criticism toward Lamar? Are you guys NUTS? Do you not see the incredible talent that has fallen in our lap? Do you NOT see the incredible difference in QB passing skills he displayed against FSU, BC & Wake vs what he looked like against Auburn & Houston?

I love Kyle, and hope he goes if LJ is still hobbled. But I think Lamar is our man, and I'm stoked to watch him "continue" to improve. But for the life of me, I just can't understand why so many can't, or refuse to, see it.

 

[Cardinals4Ever]

I like polls but I think it should be "Who should would Start on the Offensive Line?"

Anyone of those QB's would be great in their own way, behind great blocking and pass protection.

If We can move QB's around to different positions, then why not O-Linemen?

 

[wreckcard#22]

Lamar has a lot of shortcomings, and a lot to learn. But, despite all that, he still seems to produce just as well, if not better, virtually everywhere. Yet, for a large sector of the fan base, for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to get any credit for it.

I keep hearing the following:

1) "Kyle is a better passer & more accurate"...

Yet, LJ's completion % on the year is 57.9% to Kyle's 57.1%; and LJ has 8 TD passes on 74 possessions (1 every 9.3 possessions), while Kyle has only 1 TD pass on 19 possessions. And their interception rates are virtually identical with LJ throwing 1 every 26 passes, and Kyle throwing 1 every 28 passes (ironically, if you were to excuse LJ's first one on that gadget play to start the year, his would be 1 out of 31, but you can't, but still shows how close that stat is, although most fans think LJ throws them much more often when he really doesn't). Why do so many fans ignore this?

2) "Kyle is just a much more polished & efficient QB"...

Yet, LJ's seasonal Quarterback Passer Rating (QPR) is 126.3, while Kyle's is 120.8. LJ's season-high QPR of 165.3 was achieved last Friday night, yet much of the fan base seems to recall that performance as "bad," with some suggesting he wasn't really hurt, but benched for poor play. His incredibly high-rated 1st half numbers of 16-21, 198 yds, 2 Tds, 0 INT, 9.4 ypa went virtually unnoticed. And he did it without being the enormous running threat he normally is because of a gimpy ankle. Why do so many fans ignore this?

3) "The running game, as a whole, is much better with Kyle up under center"...

Yet, when LJ has been at QB, we've rushed 215 times for 893 yards (4.15 ypc), and when KB has been at QB, we've rushed 41 times for 85 yards (2.1 ypc). OK, everbody knows that Lamar runs it a lot more and a lot better than Kyle, and that sack yards are a part of rushing stats in CFB. Therefore, remove ALL QB rushes & rushing yards, because "everyone knows that the RBs run much more effectively for us under center for Kyle, than from the shotgun for Lamar." Or do they? When doing that, we find RB rushing under LJ as QB to be 409 yards on 103 carries (3.97 ypc), and under Kyle to be 134 yards on 34 carries (3.9 ypc). Again, virtually identical. And before anybody says anything about FCS Samford, I COMPLETELY REMOVED those numbers from these stats, a game where we rushed for 288 yards!
Why do so many fans ignore this?

4) "Lamar is really athletic and young, but he is NOT improving"...

Yet, here are his numbers from 1st to last game (and yes, I removed FCS Samford from the list altogether):

Team QBR Comp% YPA

Auburn 77.0 45% 5.0
Houston 112.6 63% 6.2
@NC St 81.3 37% 3.8
@FSU 153.4 57% 8.8
BC 121.3 60% 9.2
@wake 165.3 73% 8.0

I haven't provided a graph of those numbers, but if you created one, for each category, and plotted a trend line, you will clearly see substantial improvement over time in these critical "passing" categories. All 3 of them. We should be really encouraged, yet so many aren't. Why do so many fans ignore this?

5) "Lamar might have a bright future, but we need to win now, and we're just better offensively right now with Kyle, because we operate more smoothly"...

Yet, LJ has led us to scores on 27 of 74 possessions this year (36.4%), achieving 2.12 points per possession, while Kyle has led us to 4 scores on 19 possessions (21.1%), scoring 1.26 ppp. Even when you remove the Samford game from LJ, when he directed scores on 7 of 11 possessions, he's still led us to scores against FBS teams on 20 of 63 possessions (31.7%). I even read a post recently that tried to show this stat as Kyle being more productive, but to do so, the poster eliminated things from the equation like missed FGs, fumbles, and a series where there were no passes. WTF?? I understand most of Kyle's possessions were against Clemson, but playing against defenses of the likes of #1 BC, and on the road @#10 NC St, @#27 FSU, and @#31Wake aren't exactly walks in the park either, especially for an 18-yr old true freshman who did NOT go through Spring practice. Why do so many fans ignore this?

This is NOT intended to be a hit piece toward Kyle. Great kid, great competitor, great leader. He can be my QB anytime, and would get my unwavering support. But why all the "lack" of support and criticism toward Lamar? Are you guys NUTS? Do you not see the incredible talent that has fallen in our lap? Do you NOT see the incredible difference in QB passing skills he displayed against FSU, BC & Wake vs what he looked like against Auburn & Houston?

I love Kyle, and hope he goes if LJ is still hobbled. But I think Lamar is our man, and I'm stoked to watch him "continue" to improve. But for the life of me, I just can't understand why so many can't, or refuse to, see it.

oh just stop it with that nonsense...you clearly made up those numbers, and even if you didn't you have to apply the "eye" test to see that those "statistics" (if you can even call them such) are not a TRUE reflection of on the field product.

I really wish there were a sarcasm font...

 

[wreckcard#22]

as for the poll, I vote Will...but this is fantasy land as the guy is banged up pretty good.

 

[BPGhost]

I vote Jackson. And I vote him to run the traditional Petrino "power spread" offense.

There - solved it for everyone.

 

[ajgcardman]

oh just stop it with that nonsense...you clearly made up those numbers, and even if you didn't you have to apply the "eye" test to see that those "statistics" (if you can even call them such) are not a TRUE reflection of on the field product.

I really wish there were a sarcasm font...[/QUOTE

 

[Louisvillian]

I think we ought to hire the guy pictured below to come in and install the Wishbone with Lamar at QB (ala Jamelle Holiway), LJ Scott behind him at Fullback with Reggie (Billy Sims) and Radcliffe (Elvis Peacock) set at RB. Imagine the running lanes these guys would have behind this offensive line. 4 in the backfield with a TE, 5 o-lineman and a token WR. More deception is what we need.

Especially since all Garrick McGee does for that huge salary besides recruit is look pretty wearing a headset and a worried look. Better snatch up Barry before anyone else realizes he is a "young 78".

 

[tkdcoach]

If we are going to win this year the choice is Bolin, if we are preparing for next year Jackson.

Actually, as Mark B. has clearly laid out on R&R and on The Crunch Zone - if you're going by the numbers - then Lamar Jackson is the one and only choice. A lot of Cards fans are showing a real lack of knowledge about the game and the teams we've faced to date--five of our opponents are in the Top 30 statistical defenses and we have a young squad (regardless of who the QB choice might be).

 

[tkdcoach]

as for the poll, I vote Will...but this is fantasy land as the guy is banged up pretty good.

I would agree that Gardner is our best QB; however, his career is over as anyone can see. He will have a great life...with his knees intact.

 

[ajgcardman]

Actually, as Mark B. has clearly laid out on R&R and on The Crunch Zone - if you're going by the numbers - then Lamar Jackson is the one and only choice. A lot of Cards fans are showing a real lack of knowledge about the game and the teams we've faced to date--five of our opponents are in the Top 30 statistical defenses and we have a young squad (regardless of who the QB choice might be).

The poll numbers indicate our fan base is living by the old adage that the most beloved player is the backup QB.

 

[tkdcoach]

The poll numbers indicate our fan base is living by the old adage that the most beloved player is the backup QB.

He's a gutsy, likable kid. I get it. I'm more astounded by some of the crap I see posted here and elsewhere about CBP2. It's freaky (and mostly ignorant) stuff.

 

[mrFootballFan]

Stupes is putting in the wingT at yewkay

 

[Knucklehank1]

The poll numbers indicate our fan base is living by the old adage that the most beloved player is the backup QB.

I think a lot of folks like myself would prefer seeing the power spread offense because that is Petrino's bread and butter. And since LJ is incapable of going under center at this point, it defaults to Bolin.

 

[Cue Card]

The best athlete is Lamar Jackson, and as long as he is healthy, he's the best choice moving forward. I love Bolin but Jackson is more mobile when healthy and gives the offense a better chance to stay on the field with his ability to scramble for positive yards. Since the O-line breaks down a lot, he's the best option. Period.

Did I mention that I voted for Jackson?

 

[Knucklehank1]

The best athlete is Lamar Jackson, and as long as he is healthy, he's the best choice moving forward. I love Bolin but Jackson is more mobile when healthy and gives the offense a better chance to stay on the field with his ability to scramble for positive yards. Since the O-line breaks down a lot, he's the best option. Period.

Did I mention that I voted for Jackson?

I know this horse has been beat into the ground, but your thought that having a scrambling QB is the main prescription for a woeful offensive line is a little too simplistic. There are a variety of things a QB can do: pre-snap reads, step into the pocket, know where the hot receiver is, etc, etc

 

[Red Rager]

I know this horse has been beat into the ground, but your thought that having a scrambling QB is the main prescription for a woeful offensive line is a little too simplistic. There are a variety of things a QB can do: pre-snap reads, step into the pocket, know where the hot receiver is, etc, etc

JMO but I believe the point is moot. I am guessing neither Lamar nor Reggie are healthy. I prefer Kyle anyway, but be fair ajgcardman, do you think Kyle's QBR might have been affected by playing his sole start against what the CFB board considers to be the #1 team in the country?

 

[Cue Card]

JMO but I believe the point is moot. I am guessing neither Lamar nor Reggie are healthy. I prefer Kyle anyway, but be fair ajgcardman, do you think Kyle's QBR might have been affected by playing his sole start against what the CFB board considers to be the #1 team in the country?

That is food for thought. Good point.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Picking one of these guys over the other is kind of a moot point. Due to the nature of our OL and attrition, none of these guys has probably seen his last snap of the season.

 

[nccardfan]

The one who gives us a win AND the best possible chance of winning the remaining games and a owl game. I'll worry about the future next year.

 

[CardsDan]

Pro's play for the future college plays for today. Every year there is turnover is college not with the NFL and the lower they finish the better their draft choices. Some people said playing Reggie last season so much was for the future. What was the point when 10 players went to the NFL and we lost 3 players off the oline and Reggie's future now is WR or HBack. Any QB including Lamar needs to prove each and every week that he's the best one to help obtain a winning season and bowl game. If we miss a bowl this season will be considered a disaster by just about everyone.

 

[wilkie01]

I would agree that Gardner is our best QB; however, his career is over as anyone can see. He will have a great life...with his knees intact.

Well said, I totally agree.

 

[Cue Card]

Pro's play for the future college plays for today. Every year there is turnover is college not with the NFL and the lower they finish the better their draft choices. Some people said playing Reggie last season so much was for the future. What was the point when 10 players went to the NFL and we lost 3 players off the oline and Reggie's future now is WR or HBack. Any QB including Lamar needs to prove each and every week that he's the best one to help obtain a winning season and bowl game. If we miss a bowl this season will be considered a disaster by just about everyone.

I'm not sure many people thought about the strength of schedule compounded by the amount of talent lost to the NFL when setting the expectations for this year. Many of us (me included) expect at least 8 wins every year and a decent bowl game. I expected the depth to take a hit considering the players lost and with the youth we had coming in, but I never thought the O-line would still be struggling after 8 games. Never in a million years did I expect that. Growing pains, yes. 8+ games of growing pains?

Maybe we've become a bit spoiled with our expectations. IDK.

 

[tkdcoach]

JMO but I believe the point is moot. I am guessing neither Lamar nor Reggie are healthy. I prefer Kyle anyway, but be fair ajgcardman, do you think Kyle's QBR might have been affected by playing his sole start against what the CFB board considers to be the #1 team in the country?

Maybe but the #1 statistical defense is BC so not so much difference as you might think. We've played 5 of the top 30 Ds at a time when our offense is especially vulnerable (and it's not because of QBs). I'm fine with whomever our coach thinks should play and while I *think* that Jackson is our best option I'll let coach figure it out.

 

[zipp]

I know this horse has been beat into the ground, but your thought that having a scrambling QB is the main prescription for a woeful offensive line is a little too simplistic. There are a variety of things a QB can do: pre-snap reads, step into the pocket, know where the hot receiver is, etc, etc

And evidently take sacks. I think Bolin is still around -50 yards "rushing" on the season.

Actual numbers support Jackson. Bolin supporters like the "eye test" and harkening about the past...

 

[zipp]

I'm not sure many people thought about the strength of schedule compounded by the amount of talent lost to the NFL when setting the expectations for this year...

Precisely correct.

 

[zipp]

Picking one of these guys over the other is kind of a moot point. Due to the nature of our OL and attrition, none of these guys has probably seen his last snap of the season.

This as well.

We used three QBs last season, and thus far, we have used three this season. At least once in the same game!

The fixation on who starts is almost irrelevant. Everyone will eventually...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I'd like to vote for the Cardinal Bird.

 

[nccardfan]

I don't know about having too high expectations. I lived in Charlotte for 25 years and saw a lot of ACC football. I expected to have trouble with the traditionally strong teams like FSU and Clemson with possibly tough games with NC State, UNC, Miami. We haven't even played GT or VT yet in conference.

I thought we had enough playmakers on offense with 3 QBs with one touted QB leaving and one stud coming in. We had Radcliffe and LJ Scott coming back plus possibly Corbin Lamb. We also had James quick returning and a top receiver transfer from UAB. Hughley,
Epps, Klusman all had some experience plus Kelby Johnson was one of the highest ranked incoming OLineman. We were stacked at LB and with Fields coming in and vituvai, rankins and brown returning I knew we had some quality on the dline. Safety and CB were my concerns but we had transfers from the SEC who were going to replace what we lost to the NFL. Also given that our punter and K were seniors I thought our kicking game would be a plus.

But I think the biggest thing I guess was this was year 2 of the CBP era and we were going to return our glory days (at least prior to Krags). Yeah I think we look at our schedule and record and say we really are where we thought we should but it's not the record it is the way you have played up to this point. I will dare say that Bobby would not use youth as an excuse and would admit they have underperformed.

 

[tkdcoach]

I don't know about having too high expectations. I lived in Charlotte for 25 years and saw a lot of ACC football. I expected to have trouble with the traditionally strong teams like FSU and Clemson with possibly tough games with NC State, UNC, Miami. We haven't even played GT or VT yet in conference.

I thought we had enough playmakers on offense with 3 QBs with one touted QB leaving and one stud coming in. We had Radcliffe and LJ Scott coming back plus possibly Corbin Lamb. We also had James quick returning and a top receiver transfer from UAB. Hughley,
Epps, Klusman all had some experience plus Kelby Johnson was one of the highest ranked incoming OLineman. We were stacked at LB and with Fields coming in and vituvai, rankins and brown returning I knew we had some quality on the dline. Safety and CB were my concerns but we had transfers from the SEC who were going to replace what we lost to the NFL. Also given that our punter and K were seniors I thought our kicking game would be a plus.

But I think the biggest thing I guess was this was year 2 of the CBP era and we were going to return our glory days (at least prior to Krags). Yeah I think we look at our schedule and record and say we really are where we thought we should but it's not the record it is the way you have played up to this point. I will dare say that Bobby would not use youth as an excuse and would admit they have underperformed.

We'd say we underperformed because we expect to win not because we thought we couldn't lose any (or MOST) of those games.

I expected a much stronger program this year for all the reasons you cited; however, that was all contingent on an OL that was minimally competent. Turns out that was far from reality. I was among those who were deluding themselves but in retrospect in the context of the OL those expectations were not well founded.

Also, we've played 5 of the top 30 defenses at a time of vulnerability on offense. We still were VERY competitive in all of those games with the exception of 2nd half at FSU. We are not as far away as some defeatists are moaning (if we had beaten just UH we'd be 5-3 and perception would be pretty dramatically different, right?). If you're going to be an optimist like I was...at least man up and take responsibility for being wrong...I was.

 

[Senore2006]

Having adjusted my expectations to meet reality, the trip itself in this matter has been bumpy and exasperating. Hughley has put his large posterior into the screen as a depressing and consistent reminder of our flaws. Hiking the ball over Kyle's head at crunch time on at least a game typing drive against Clemson ranks as one of the most appalling mistakes in the sport we have ever seen. Intermixed with moments of great success - LJ's 27 second, 80 yard drive to close out the half against BC. His 80 yard TD run. Bolin's incredible 9 minute game-saving drive to close out BC. The play of Jaylen Smith earlier in the season....all contrast with the worst running offense we have also ever seen here.

Closing the wounds in our offensive fabric all still boil down to Hughley, imo. The rest get better as the season rolls on and 10-12 freshmen accommodate to Div 1 football. Having Hughley at center is like playing bill Derrington there.

 

[turducken71]

Consistent offensive execution and controlling penalties will be critical. If we don't beat ourselves, we'll beat them. Regardless, I'll be tailgating by the BIG TREE!

 

[Senore2006]

Consistent offensive execution and controlling penalties will be critical. If we don't beat ourselves, we'll beat them. Regardless, I'll be tailgating by the BIG TREE!

You should work on that obsession.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Jackson it's obvious alot of folks don't know anything about sports.

 

[nccardfan]

We simply cannot lay all the blame on the OL.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Jackson it's obvious alot of folks don't know anything about sports.

How many years of college football did you play?

 

[Strongtino]

There's nothing shady or weird going on behind the scenes in this QB "battle." There's no ulterior motive or secret hidden agenda....if Bobby Petrino felt Kyle Bolin gave Louisville the best chance to be successful he would be the QB. If our OLine wasn't absolutely terrible I think Bolin would be the QB...But the fact remains that our OLine sucks and we need a QB behind center who can make something out of nothing and that's overwhelmingly Lamar Jackson. He also adds the read-option wrinkle to our offense which Kyle obviously can't do.....

I like Bolin, he's an all time hero after his UK performance but he's simply not athletic enough to play behind this OLine. You take the good with the bad with Lamar, but he gives us the best chance to win every week.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

There's nothing shady or weird going on behind the scenes in this QB "battle." There's no ulterior motive or secret hidden agenda....if Bobby Petrino felt Kyle Bolin gave Louisville the best chance to be successful he would be the QB. If our OLine wasn't absolutely terrible I think Bolin would be the QB...But the fact remains that our OLine sucks and we need a QB behind center who can make something out of nothing and that's overwhelmingly Lamar Jackson. He also adds the read-option wrinkle to our offense which Kyle obviously can't do.....

I like Bolin, he's an all time hero after his UK performance but he's simply not athletic enough to play behind this OLine. You take the good with the bad with Lamar, but he gives us the best chance to win every week.[/QUOTE Amazing these idiots can't see this. Besides I trust what the head coach Petrino knows we sure in the hell don't know more than him.

 

[ajgcardman]

Pro's play for the future college plays for today. Every year there is turnover is college not with the NFL and the lower they finish the better their draft choices. Some people said playing Reggie last season so much was for the future. What was the point when 10 players went to the NFL and we lost 3 players off the oline and Reggie's future now is WR or HBack. Any QB including Lamar needs to prove each and every week that he's the best one to help obtain a winning season and bowl game. If we miss a bowl this season will be considered a disaster by just about everyone.

we ain't missing a bowl game