OT: Tyra is on the clock again. Lolla resigns.

[PushupMan]

Which misses an important point... Why are we recruiting coaches worth less than their predecessors?

And all of that obvious in hindsight. Where was this wisdom and opinion in 2016? I don't recall it from you, other posters, Jurich nor his U of L superiors...

You must not have paid much attention to my posts back then, because I was saying that Pitino should shut up and take the punishment he obviously deserved for turning a blind eye to what Andre McGee was doing. And I was also saying that if he didn’t want the responsibility, that Jurich should force him into retirement.

It was very clear to anyone who actually read the notice of allegations that the NCAA was determined to have its pound of flesh over the hooker scandal. That meant that either Pitino or the program was going to suffer.

 

[Morgantown Card]

All that mess over a bunch of nasty, ugly, skanky, stank trick-ass ho's.

 

[CardVille]

All that mess over a bunch of nasty, ugly, skanky, stank trick-ass ho's.

Yep, thats how you know RP wasnt aware. Otherwise it would have been some nice high class escorts.

 

[Hold Me Back]

I'd have to look at each case individually to say whether I agreed or not. But you're picking all football coaches and mostly before U of L was recruiting into a P5 conference. U of L's long been behind the 8-ball recruiting anyone into their football program. Of course, that should be changing.

AND let's not forget, Jurich had the track record of identifying good coaches for his programs. "Vince" has no similar track record, at least yet. Any scrutiny of his hires will be warranted unless and until that happens. If anyone doesn't think that's justified, that's the basis--no track record--on which he accepted the job...

Is this the same Tom Jurich that torpedoed the football program not once, but twice?

 

[Morgantown Card]

Yep, thats how you know RP wasnt aware. Otherwise it would have been some nice high class escorts.

It sounds like a joke because it's funny - but this is absolutely 100% true. If Rick is gettin' you ho's, Rick is going to get you someone who looks more like Halle Berry than Queen Latifa.

 

[Knucklehank1]

How many of the people that you talk to "around the country" provide financial support to U of L? Any? I talk to plenty of people who do (provide that support or used to), and NONE of them mention anything about scandal or Pitino or Ramsey. They talk a lot about "Vince" and money and lack of attendance and further risk of losing good coaches.

I'm not saying my anecdotal evidence is any more than yours. I am saying that my sources are more relevant to U of L's future than yours...

“Zipp” - if you talk to “UofL supporters” that haven’t been shaken by the scandals then I’m guessing they aren’t actually supporters or they were part of the problem to begin with. Either way I’m glad “they” are gone.

 

[chevelle99]

Did I just see on channel 41 news the university received a 3 million dollar donation to upgrade and rename the basketball practice facility? It’s kinda noisy where I stopped for a little refreshment after work. Don’t mean to hijack the thread but this goes to the no donor support people.

 

[chevelle99]

Story is also on the courier journal site. Yum will gift the university 600,000 to exit the practice facility naming rights. The owners of local planet fitness facilities will cough up the 3 million.

 

[Art79]

“Zipp” - if you talk to “UofL supporters” that haven’t been shaken by the scandals then I’m guessing they aren’t actually supporters or they were part of the problem to begin with. Either way I’m glad “they” are gone.

Well said Hank!

 

[Art79]

Story is also on the courier journal site. Yum will gift the university 600,000 to exit the practice facility naming rights. The owners of local planet fitness facilities will cough up the 3 million.

Way to go "Vince"!

 

[beantowncard]

Let me know what you don't understand, and I'll try to explain a little better...

I don’t understand why you don’t pick one. Are we paying too much, too little, or market rate?

 

[beantowncard]

All that mess over a bunch of nasty, ugly, skanky, stank trick-ass ho's.

And we didn’t get any recruits out of it.

 

[zipp]

Jur

He did inherit a very good athletic program, but the 2 revenue producing sports were a complete mess. At the end of the day we are talking about basketball and football because without them you don't have the resources to support the other programs.

I am not sure what you call horrible, but a program that was involved in 2 scandals that are widely considered unprecedented seems horrible to me. The only program to lose a banner, and I know that wasn't Jurich fault even though he hired the guy that told the to work with the NCAA.

Then a football program tanks and is the only P5 team to give up fifty in 5 or 6 games. Yeah, that program was in good hands too.

No matter how you spin it those 2 program are the face of Louisville athletics. He has hire the right guy in Mack, and Satterfiled appears to be a quality guy. Last I checked you want to buy low sell high. Seems like a good business decision and in the best interest of Louisville athletics.

Jurich was exactly what Louisville needed and Tyra might be exactly what Louisville needed time will tell.

The basketball program in 2017 was what it was post-strippergate. We simply had to chuck Brian Bowen. Pitino would have taken last year's team to the tourney and kept his recruits. He would be coaching this year's team as well minus the grad transfers in all probability. And Jurich would still have been putting out any fires. I'm missing the "horrible" in there beyond what we MADE it after Pitino and Jurich were canned. For damn sure, we'd have millions more in the bank and several thousand more people at basketball games each nite.

If we're in the $hitter, it's these guys who put us there...

 

[zipp]

Is this the same Tom Jurich that torpedoed the football program not once, but twice?

You want to look at the full data set or just a couple of data points?...

 

[zipp]

“Zipp” - if you talk to “UofL supporters” that haven’t been shaken by the scandals then I’m guessing they aren’t actually supporters or they were part of the problem to begin with. Either way I’m glad “they” are gone.

Oops, now a fan card check on perfect strangers!

I'm also not sure your athletics dept can pick and choose whose money they wanna accept anymore. As long as it's green...

 

[zipp]

Did I just see on channel 41 news the university received a 3 million dollar donation to upgrade and rename the basketball practice facility? It’s kinda noisy where I stopped for a little refreshment after work. Don’t mean to hijack the thread but this goes to the no donor support people.

"There goes a brown dog. Therefore, all dogs are brown."

I just hope most of the area non-profits missed the announcement. According to beano, they'll all be descending on Planet Fitness--which is why acts of philanthropy bestowed on U of L are usually kept private...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Oops, now a fan card check on perfect strangers!

I'm also not sure your athletics dept can pick and choose whose money they wanna accept anymore. As long as it's green...

More like a sanity check. Actually any reputable organization can pick and choose who they want to associate with. I hope they choose to disassociate with those that justify or simply overlook scandal.

 

[chevelle99]

Can someone tell me which of U of L’s new athletic facilities is named “anonymous donor field”?

 

[zipp]

Can someone tell me which of U of L’s new athletic facilities is named “anonymous donor field”?

None I know of. But you guys need to get your stories straight. I was told that press releases and naming opportunities were avoided by U of L's donors who didn't wanna get besieged for donations to other causes.

That type of comedy is another reason I come here on a regular basis...

 

[chevelle99]

Then you should have quoted the members saying donors want to remain anonymous because it wasn't me. I come here for up to date and inside info on U of L sports. Teams that make my idle time a little more interesting. Not because of a grudge or vendetta against current university staff.

 

[zipp]

Then you should have quoted the members saying donors want to remain anonymous because it wasn't me. I come here for up to date and inside info on U of L sports. Teams that make my idle time a little more interesting. Not because of a grudge or vendetta against current university staff.

beantowncard

And not to single him out... Any apologist looking for excuses and explanations why U of L is not raising and publicizing money from its donor base. Excuse me if I find it humorous at some level...

 

[beantowncard]

The basketball program in 2017 was what it was post-strippergate. We simply had to chuck Brian Bowen. Pitino would have taken last year's team to the tourney and kept his recruits. He would be coaching this year's team as well minus the grad transfers in all probability. And Jurich would still have been putting out any fires. I'm missing the "horrible" in there beyond what we MADE it after Pitino and Jurich were canned. For damn sure, we'd have millions more in the bank and several thousand more people at basketball games each nite.

If we're in the $hitter, it's these guys who put us there...

A lot of speculation regarding what would have been. You are forgetting that whetherPitino was still here or not, we would be (are) looking down the barrel of ANOTHER NCAA investigation. All of this would be used against Rick on the recruiting trail. That is one fire Tom couldn’t put out.

 

[zipp]

A lot of speculation regarding what would have been. You are forgetting that whetherPitino was still here or not, we would be (are) looking down the barrel of ANOTHER NCAA investigation. All of this would be used against Rick on the recruiting trail. That is one fire Tom couldn’t put out.

There's no relationship to Pitino being employed and NCAA action. He was canned just prior to the appeal denial.

And no head coach has lost his job in the wake of FBI activities; indeed, some of these implicated coaches have received new contracts.

Pitino was canned to get at Jurich. That's why your arena sits one-third empty and you're down millions. Steep price to pay...

 

[Thecycle27]

The basketball program in 2017 was what it was post-strippergate. We simply had to chuck Brian Bowen. Pitino would have taken last year's team to the tourney and kept his recruits. He would be coaching this year's team as well minus the grad transfers in all probability. And Jurich would still have been putting out any fires. I'm missing the "horrible" in there beyond what we MADE it after Pitino and Jurich were canned. For damn sure, we'd have millions more in the bank and several thousand more people at basketball games each nite.

If we're in the $hitter, it's these guys who put us there...

[/QUOTE
No way you keep Pitino after the Bowen deal, Louisville was unique in that they were the only repeat NCAA. Yes, they have a assistant coach on tape and while that may not matter with the NCAA down the road it clearly showed his assistants were willing to cheat while under the microscope. Yeah, let's keep them all. Geez unbelievable you still believe keeping Pitino was the best option for Louisville. Sorry you hire possibly the 2 dumbest assistant coaches in the history of stupid coaches you have to go.

Jurich was different, I understand your point with him, that was a political move and unfortunate. Stop with Pitino.

 

[STLNBSE]

If there’s a lack of attendance it’s because college basketball is dying on the vine. I’d further submit that any fan who doesn’t attend solely because they miss Rick Pitino is a freaking loser.

 

[Knucklehank1]

There's no relationship to Pitino being employed and NCAA action. He was canned just prior to the appeal denial.

And no head coach has lost his job in the wake of FBI activities; indeed, some of these implicated coaches have received new contracts.

Pitino was canned to get at Jurich. That's why your arena sits one-third empty and you're down millions. Steep price to pay...

It’s amazing that Pitino hasn’t gotten another coaching gig. I mean damn, he was just this innocent pawn in some power play, right? Surely other programs realize that.

 

[beantowncard]

There's no relationship to Pitino being employed and NCAA action. He was canned just prior to the appeal denial.

And no head coach has lost his job in the wake of FBI activities; indeed, some of these implicated coaches have received new contracts.

Pitino was canned to get at Jurich. That's why your arena sits one-third empty and you're down millions. Steep price to pay...

So people aren’t coming to games because Tom Jurich isn’t the AD? Half the people don’t know who Jurich or Tyra are, for Pete’s sake. You are correct that Pitino wasn’t canned for the NCAA action pursuant to Strippergate. He was canned for the FBI investigation that named him (indirectly). You are also right that no body else was canned. But you keep trying to apply the “pattern” argument against Vince NQ, cobbling together individual observations like one coach “thought” about leaving, one coach did what almost all other coaches do and hired an agent, and another coach resigned and gave reasons other than what fit the pattern, so you chose to assign reasons that did fit. Why is the “pattern” argument never applied to Rick? Sypher, strippergate, Bowen.... no pattern to see here. Move along! CRP and TJ were basically fired at the same time. Why did CRP have to be fired to “get to” Jurich? I agree that it is curious why Bill Self still has a job, and Pitino doesn’t. I predict Kansas will get hit harder than we will by the NCAA. If Bill Self had a Sypher and a strippergate on his resume, he’d probably be a little shaky right now.
People don’t go to games to see the AD. They go to see their teams win and play well. The more casual fans just might be disgusted with all the scandal and choose a more convenient and comfortable way to enjoy Cardinal athletics. No body chooses not to go because of who the AD is.

 

[Art79]

Excellent post Beantown!

 

[Knucklehank1]

So people aren’t coming to games because Tom Jurich isn’t the AD? Half the people don’t know who Jurich or Tyra are, for Pete’s sake. You are correct that Pitino wasn’t canned for the NCAA action pursuant to Strippergate. He was canned for the FBI investigation that named him (indirectly). You are also right that no body else was canned. But you keep trying to apply the “pattern” argument against Vince NQ, cobbling together individual observations like one coach “thought” about leaving, one coach did what almost all other coaches do and hired an agent, and another coach resigned and gave reasons other than what fit the pattern, so you chose to assign reasons that did fit. Why is the “pattern” argument never applied to Rick? Sypher, strippergate, Bowen.... no pattern to see here. Move along! CRP and TJ were basically fired at the same time. Why did CRP have to be fired to “get to” Jurich? I agree that it is curious why Bill Self still has a job, and Pitino doesn’t. I predict Kansas will get hit harder than we will by the NCAA. If Bill Self had a Sypher and a strippergate on his resume, he’d probably be a little shaky right now.
People don’t go to games to see the AD. They go to see their teams win and play well. The more casual fans just might be disgusted with all the scandal and choose a more convenient and comfortable way to enjoy Cardinal athletics. No body chooses not to go because of who the AD is.

Beantowncard with the mic drop

 

[zipp]

No way you keep Pitino after the Bowen deal, Louisville was unique in that they were the only repeat NCAA. Yes, they have a assistant coach on tape and while that may not matter with the NCAA down the road it clearly showed his assistants were willing to cheat while under the microscope. Yeah, let's keep them all. Geez unbelievable you still believe keeping Pitino was the best option for Louisville. Sorry you hire possibly the 2 dumbest assistant coaches in the history of stupid coaches you have to go.

Jurich was different, I understand your point with him, that was a political move and unfortunate. Stop with Pitino.

I never said you keep Pitino long term. I simply maintain as do others that firing him on the spot was unnecessary and what the clown show did to get at Jurich.

Had Jurich remained in the job, Pitino's exit would have managed differently to mitigate cost and fallout. Jurich knew how to do that kinda stuff; the clowns don't have a clue. They assumed fans and donors blindly support anything with "U of L" on it and were willing to accept whatever they did. In hindsight, they were wrong on both counts...

 

[zipp]

If there’s a lack of attendance it’s because college basketball is dying on the vine...

Nowhere near the rate of U of L's decline... Close to 30% in a two-year span. A HUGE decline. And that's attendance, not the underlying revenue.

...I’d further submit that any fan who doesn’t attend solely because they miss Rick Pitino is a freaking loser.

What fans think doesn't matter. What matters is will they give U of L their money. Increasingly they won't...

 

[zipp]

So people aren’t coming to games because Tom Jurich isn’t the AD? Half the people don’t know who Jurich or Tyra are, for Pete’s sake. You are correct that Pitino wasn’t canned for the NCAA action pursuant to Strippergate. He was canned for the FBI investigation that named him (indirectly). You are also right that no body else was canned. But you keep trying to apply the “pattern” argument against Vince NQ, cobbling together individual observations like one coach “thought” about leaving, one coach did what almost all other coaches do and hired an agent, and another coach resigned and gave reasons other than what fit the pattern, so you chose to assign reasons that did fit. Why is the “pattern” argument never applied to Rick? Sypher, strippergate, Bowen.... no pattern to see here. Move along! CRP and TJ were basically fired at the same time. Why did CRP have to be fired to “get to” Jurich? I agree that it is curious why Bill Self still has a job, and Pitino doesn’t. I predict Kansas will get hit harder than we will by the NCAA. If Bill Self had a Sypher and a strippergate on his resume, he’d probably be a little shaky right now.
People don’t go to games to see the AD. They go to see their teams win and play well. The more casual fans just might be disgusted with all the scandal and choose a more convenient and comfortable way to enjoy Cardinal athletics. No body chooses not to go because of who the AD is.

Your post is all over the place--and paragraphs are your friend. But I'll try to distill down these points that largely misrepresent my positions...

I never said fans go to games because they like the AD. Fans provide financial support to institutions they like, feel connected to, AND TRUST. If I don't trust you to have a vision I endorse and to use my money wisely, you're not getting any of it (or as little as possible). If you have people employed--worse yet, leading the operation--that I'm suspicious of, things for you are worse financially. That's where U of L stands. And 100% of the fans in this category don't walk out the door. Many continue paying out of habit. Many give less, and some do walk.

I also never said U of L should have kept Pitino in the job for the remainder of his contract. See post #70 above. Pitino was just a pawn to get at Jurich and his control over money and power. Coaching fallout, attendance declines, and financial issues are the result...

 

[Thecycle27]

Your post is all over the place--and paragraphs are your friend. But I'll try to distill down these points that largely misrepresent my positions...

I never said fans go to games because they like the AD. Fans provide financial support to institutions they like, feel connected to, AND TRUST. If I don't trust you to have a vision I endorse and to use my money wisely, you're not getting any of it (or as little as possible). If you have people employed--worse yet, leading the operation--that I'm suspicious of, things for you are worse financially. That's where U of L stands. And 100% of the fans in this category don't walk out the door. Many continue paying out of habit. Many give less, and some do walk.

I also never said U of L should have kept Pitino in the job for the remainder of his contract. See post #70 above. Pitino was just a pawn to get at Jurich and his control over money and power. Coaching fallout, attendance declines, and financial issues are the result...

I agree with your position if both parties were willing to work together, they weren't.

 

[zipp]

I agree with your position if both parties were willing to work together, they weren't.

What should have happened is that the new leadership should have been patient, not necessarily cooperative. They couldn't be either, and they're failing as a result. Maybe not completely, but times are definitely much worse than they had to be. And they were in charge, so that's on them...

 

[Art79]

Wow, just wow. I had hoped that we were way past the Pitino firing. It’s difficult to understand how anyone would have supported keeping him on as the head coach after the FBI scandal surfaced, even if that would have been only for a “short term”. Enough was enough. The continued embarrassment to the university from scandal after scandal, the definitive statements that keeping him in place would proclaim across the country about our college sports program (certainly in keeping with the sentiment that “the only things that matter are wins and money”, and also that “we don’t care about integrity and scandals, we just want to win”) made keeping him impossible, even for just one more day. In fact, the complete “cleaning of the house” is our best ticket to minimal NCAA sanctions when the FBI scandal plays out.

The difficulties faced by last year’s team were large enough without that team being questioned on a daily basis about the coach’s future and the increased taunting they would have faced on the road; why put them through any of that?

As for the cited past history of Jurich dealing with such difficult situations, I don’t remember any such previous coaching situation that even remotely resembles that. Perhaps the closest thing might have been the abusive lacrosse coach who was fired, by Tyra, not Jurich, more than four years after the abuse first became clear. That program pretty well melted down until the coach was fired.

As for the decline in men’s basketball attendance, yes it was good and consistent in the KFC Yum Center until the stripper scandal broke, and then the attendance decreased noticeably during Jurich’s last two years. Then, after the FBI scandal broke, attendance has suffered another noticeable decline the past two years. Unfortunately, with the increased use of the secondary markets on the internet for tickets, I think it would be difficult to get back to the previous numbers even if there had been no scandals. But, with a great coach in place, a team playing hard (which always excites all fans, especially Louisville fans), promising recruits, and a likely return to top 10 rankings (even if not this year), things are in place for an attendance increase over the next few years.

 

[beantowncard]

Your post is all over the place--and paragraphs are your friend. But I'll try to distill down these points that largely misrepresent my positions...

I never said fans go to games because they like the AD. Fans provide financial support to institutions they like, feel connected to, AND TRUST. If I don't trust you to have a vision I endorse and to use my money wisely, you're not getting any of it (or as little as possible). If you have people employed--worse yet, leading the operation--that I'm suspicious of, things for you are worse financially. That's where U of L stands. And 100% of the fans in this category don't walk out the door. Many continue paying out of habit. Many give less, and some do walk.

I also never said U of L should have kept Pitino in the job for the remainder of his contract. See post #70 above. Pitino was just a pawn to get at Jurich and his control over money and power. Coaching fallout, attendance declines, and financial issues are the result...

No, the post is pretty much on point. But we are back to the old question, trust them (university leadership) to do WHAT? If we were talking about a financial investment, that would be obvious.

 

[zipp]

...we are back to the old question, trust them (university leadership) to do WHAT?...

NOT manage athletics smaller, i.e., what a "numbers guy" does.

Grow the TOP line.

Take money from athletics to fund academics.

Gut all traces of the prior regime, incl. people and coaches.

That kinda stuff...

 

[zipp]

Wow, just wow. I had hoped that we were way past the Pitino firing. It’s difficult to understand how anyone would have supported keeping him on as the head coach after the FBI scandal surfaced, even if that would have been only for a “short term”. Enough was enough...

Well, not for many of us. I'm not the only guy here who thinks that Pitino's dismissal was mishandled--I'm not even the most outspoken. And if you think we could have handled it more smoothly with less cost and still right doing it the way it was done, you're saying it was OK for U of L to be spending potentially millions it didn't have to. That's a destructive mindset.

...The continued embarrassment to the university from scandal after scandal, the definitive statements that keeping him in place would proclaim across the country about our college sports program (certainly in keeping with the sentiment that “the only things that matter are wins and money”, and also that “we don’t care about integrity and scandals, we just want to win”) made keeping him impossible, even for just one more day. In fact, the complete “cleaning of the house” is our best ticket to minimal NCAA sanctions when the FBI scandal plays out...

Yeah that strategy of falling on your sword has really served U of L well so far. I don't know how I keep forgetting that.

...The difficulties faced by last year’s team were large enough without that team being questioned on a daily basis about the coach’s future and the increased taunting they would have faced on the road; why put them through any of that?...

And we avoided a lot of that too by dumping Pitino! We didn't bring any focus on our situation. How DO I keep forgetting this important stuff??

...As for the cited past history of Jurich dealing with such difficult situations, I don’t remember any such previous coaching situation that even remotely resembles that. Perhaps the closest thing might have been the abusive lacrosse coach who was fired, by Tyra, not Jurich, more than four years after the abuse first became clear. That program pretty well melted down until the coach was fired...

No question... Ron Cooper, Denny Crum, K-rag... Those were all walks-in-the-park for a powerful Conference USA program rolling in dough and fan support.

...As for the decline in men’s basketball attendance, yes it was good and consistent in the KFC Yum Center until the stripper scandal broke, and then the attendance decreased noticeably during Jurich’s last two years. Then, after the FBI scandal broke, attendance has suffered another noticeable decline the past two years. Unfortunately, with the increased use of the secondary markets on the internet for tickets, I think it would be difficult to get back to the previous numbers even if there had been no scandals. But, with a great coach in place, a team playing hard (which always excites all fans, especially Louisville fans), promising recruits, and a likely return to top 10 rankings (even if not this year), things are in place for an attendance increase over the next few years.

Not that you're interested in facts, but attendance at Bailout Arena was reported for Pitino's final season at 94% of capacity. The overall home number was good for THIRD in the country. Shortly thereafter, Pitino and Jurich were taken out and shot...

 

[CardMonarch]

I'm not even the most outspoken.

 

[zipp]

There's a guy who seldom posts here named "WildCard". (Sarcasm intended...)

Pay attention to him...