Notre Dame????

[jalovell23]

I wonder if Notre Dame would be a little bit better in football, if they actually had something to win for. They have no conference championship to look forward to, or get excited about. So, I just wonder if Notre Dame was a member of the ACC in football, would they actually win some of those big games during the season.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

College Football has changed over the years and ND hasn't. Their tradition now works against them, as they get every team's best shot. Just look at the attendance at tonight's game - 30-40% of the fans were Georgia fans.

 

[KerryRhodes]

Notre 'shame'

 

[beantowncard]

I wonder if Notre Dame would be a little bit better in football, if they actually had something to win for. They have no conference championship to look forward to, or get excited about. So, I just wonder if Notre Dame was a member of the ACC in football, would they actually win some of those big games during the season.

They look forward to the monster check they get from NBC. They don't have to share it with anybody.

 

[zipp]

I wonder if Notre Dame would be a little bit better in football, if they actually had something to win for. They have no conference championship to look forward to, or get excited about. So, I just wonder if Notre Dame was a member of the ACC in football, would they actually win some of those big games during the season.

That's a good question and analysis... It's probably not as simple as one explanation, but their kids ain't getting motivated by the size of any ND paychecks...

 

[Mayoman]

That's a good question and analysis... It's probably not as simple as one explanation, but their kids ain't getting motivated by the size of any ND paychecks...

You may have just stumbled onto the key right there......or maybe that is their best kept secret.

Oh, I know, the value of a ND degree is priceless.

 

[MDCardsFan]

Until Notre Shame fires Kelly, the football team will be a joke conference or not.

 

[ShortCreek]

I can only hope that NBC doesn't fork over the big bucks when the current contract with ND expires. Thus, forcing their hand to FINALLY join the ACC in football. It would be a win-win for both parties.

 

[flyercard]

They look forward to the monster check they get from NBC. They don't have to share it with anybody.

As well as their share of bowl revenue.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Notre Dame hasn't had a Top 10 recruiting class since 2013. Long term, they probably can't be an elite program if they don't recruit with the other elite programs.

 

[zipp]

I can only hope that NBC doesn't fork over the big bucks when the current contract with ND expires. Thus, forcing their hand to FINALLY join the ACC in football. It would be a win-win for both parties.

Heard an interesting take on this by Deener...

Right now, we play ND on average once every three years. If they moved into the ACC Coastal and nothing else changes, we'd play them once every 6-7 years.

And ND is NOT gonna vote for more conference games...

 

[American Male]

Heard an interesting take on this by Deener...

Right now, we play ND on average once every three years. If they moved into the ACC Coastal and nothing else changes, we'd play them once every 6-7 years.

And ND is NOT gonna vote for more conference games...

Then, Notre Lame (in ALL Sports), can go the way of BYU...Considered a P5 opponent with Zero chance of playing for a National Championship!!!

 

[zipp]

Then, Notre Lame (in ALL Sports), can go the way of BYU...Considered a P5 opponent with Zero chance of playing for a National Championship!!!

I didn't say I didn't want ND in the ACC, just that there are flipsides to any argument.

Personally, I'd like ND in the ACC because I don't think they come in alone. To get to 16 teams, there would probably be a 2nd team--most likely one from the Big XII. That lands an 8th team in the Atlantic Division too.

And ND will have to get past their issue with more conference games. Because of the ACC Network, that's eventually happening with or without ND...

 

[topdecktiger]

Heard an interesting take on this by Deener...

Right now, we play ND on average once every three years. If they moved into the ACC Coastal and nothing else changes, we'd play them once every 6-7 years.

And ND is NOT gonna vote for more conference games...

It would still end up being once in 3 years, due to rotating divisions.

 

[zipp]

It would still end up being once in 3 years, due to rotating divisions.

Which works how?...

 

[topdecktiger]

Which works how?...

You split up the teams into 4 different groups. You then pair 2 groups into each division. Then you switch the pairings on a scheduled rotation.

Let's call the 4 groups, A, B, C, and D. Let's say Louisville was in Group A. You would be in a division with B first, then with C, then with D. Then the rotation would recycle.

 

[zipp]

You split up the teams into 4 different groups. You then pair 2 groups into each division. Then you switch the pairings on a scheduled rotation.

Let's call the 4 groups, A, B, C, and D. Let's say Louisville was in Group A. You would be in a division with B first, then with C, then with D. Then the rotation would recycle.

And I don't think half the teams in the conference will go for that if they lose divisional/crossover games they value.

Sure, there are ways to change the schedules. But you don't get enough teams satisfied with the results. FSU wants to play Clemson and Miami every year. ND's gonna wanna play Boston College, maybe Pitt, and maybe Miami every year. Virginia and Va Tech have to play. And I haven't even gotten to the Tobacco Road schools or what Louisville wants...

 

[CommodoreCard]

I think younger ND fans want all in the ACC. It's the older generation that is staunch Independence for football. IMO Independence is killing ND football. For the sake of their program, they need the ACC.

 

[mwatson61]

And I don't think half the teams in the conference will go for that if they lose divisional/crossover games they value.

Sure, there are ways to change the schedules. But you don't get enough teams satisfied with the results. FSU wants to play Clemson and Miami every year. ND's gonna wanna play Boston College, maybe Pitt, and maybe Miami every year. Virginia and Va Tech have to play. And I haven't even gotten to the Tobacco Road schools or what Louisville wants...

I love it when the Pod gurus rear their ugly heads.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

The league is going to want more tailored for TV games, not random pod matchups.

 

[CardChipper]

Notre Dame was the reason the Big East died. A commitment by the Irish would have saved the conference. As a Catholic I can never support ND and their selfishness. I wish them nothing but misery. Most recruits see through the smokescreen and the horrible South Bend winters anyway.

 

[topdecktiger]

And I don't think half the teams in the conference will go for that if they lose divisional/crossover games they value.

Sure, there are ways to change the schedules. But you don't get enough teams satisfied with the results. FSU wants to play Clemson and Miami every year. ND's gonna wanna play Boston College, maybe Pitt, and maybe Miami every year. Virginia and Va Tech have to play. And I haven't even gotten to the Tobacco Road schools or what Louisville wants...

The only way you can satisfy all the teams (not to mention ESPN) is to rotate the divisions. You can't have 8-team divisions and maintain all the rivalries.

By the way, you don't lose your crossover game.

I love it when the Pod gurus rear their ugly heads.

That has nothing to do with it. If you go to 16, this is the only viable option. (That's why expansion to 16 is unlikely.)

 

[zipp]

The league is going to want more tailored for TV games, not random pod matchups.

Exactly. You go with a plan like the ACC does in basketball scheduling...

 

[topdecktiger]

The league is going to want more tailored for TV games, not random pod matchups.

You can't get TV-tailored games if you don't format it that way. Like the other poster said, with the current format, you only get Notre Dame 5 or 6 years, as opposed to 2 or 3 years now. Adding teams and keeping the current setup makes TV matchups worse, not better.

Exactly. You go with a plan like the ACC does in basketball scheduling...

Can't do that because of the division requirement, rivalries, limited schedule,etc.

Actually though, it would be closer to the basketball schedule than you think. Basketball groups you up with 3 or 4 teams who play twice, and then play everyone else once. So basketball still does the group thing. They just do it without divisions, which you can't do in football.

 

[American Male]

I love it when the Pod gurus rear their ugly heads.

You have zero concept of how Pods would work...Here's how!!!

Boston College
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse

Louisville
Team to be determined (Cincinnati, West Virginia or Texas)
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina

Clemson
Florida State
NC State
Wake Forest

Notre Dame has BC in their pod, gets FSU, Miami and team to be determined from Louisville's pod as cross pod rival.

UNC has Duke in their pod and gets NC State, Virginia and team to be determined from first pod as perm cross pod rival.

Miami has Georgia Tech in their pod and gets FSU, Notre Dame and Virginia Tech as their perm cross pod rivals.

FSU has Clemson in their pod and gets Miami, Notre Dame and team to be determined from Louisville's pod as perm cross pod rival.

Louisville has Virginia Tech and either Cincinnati, Texas or West Virginia in their pod and gets Georgia Tech, Clemson and team to be determined from first pod.

Old Rivaleries are still played, new rivalries are renewed (Louisville and WVU...Pitt and WVU...Va Tech and WVU etc...), and created...Its N-O-T that hard to figure out and set up!!!

 

[94tarheel]

I truly believe that the tide is shifting and ND will join the conference sooner rather than later. I know that whomever comes with ND, football schools have the power and it will not be blocked by Tobacco Road. That is why I believe WVa has a really good chance, the UVa-Duke-UNC voting block will not have the power to do anything. Wake will vote with State who will vote with all of the rest. Will also have the chance to straighten out divisions and maybe cross rivalries.

 

[zipp]

I truly believe that the tide is shifting and ND will join the conference sooner rather than later. I know that whomever comes with ND, football schools have the power and it will not be blocked by Tobacco Road. That is why I believe WVa has a really good chance, the UVa-Duke-UNC voting block will not have the power to do anything. Wake will vote with State who will vote with all of the rest. Will also have the chance to straighten out divisions and maybe cross rivalries.

I don't think WVU adds anything to the ACC footprint when there may be premier teams interested from WVU's conference. I'd like to think as expiration of the Big XII GOR approaches, there will be some back room discussions about bigger things...

 

[zipp]

...Can't do that because of the division requirement, rivalries, limited schedule,etc...

NCAA rules are gonna have to change with any new divisional alignments...

 

[topdecktiger]

NCAA rules are gonna have to change with any new divisional alignments...

Not for rotating divisions. That's been done before, in the 90s. If the rules change, then everything is out the window, but this is assuming no rules change.

 

[94tarheel]

I don't think WVU adds anything to the ACC footprint when there may be premier teams interested from WVU's conference. I'd like to think as expiration of the Big XII GOR approaches, there will be some back room discussions about bigger things...

Texas is the elephant in the room but WVU brings regional rivalry games to fueled the SEC for years. The ACC is primed for major success and bringing in the right program would only enhance it. Right now, the ACC does not play up its rivalry games as much as it needs. Of course FSU/Clemson brings in the ratings but Clemson/U of L has become a pleasant rivalry. Miami is coming back finally and Miami/VaTech will certainly be entertaining. GaTech/FSU would be nice. That is why WVU/Pitt or U of L or VaTech is appealing. ACC needs those regional rivalries.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

If the goal of expansion is still to get new TV markets, I don't see WVU as an option. We already have Pittsburgh in that area. If it's more about bringing in a quality football program WVU might get some consideration. But my understanding is the only consideration is new markets.

 

[American Male]

Texas is the elephant in the room but WVU brings regional rivalry games to fueled the SEC for years. The ACC is primed for major success and bringing in the right program would only enhance it. Right now, the ACC does not play up its rivalry games as much as it needs. Of course FSU/Clemson brings in the ratings but Clemson/U of L has become a pleasant rivalry. Miami is coming back finally and Miami/Va-Tech will certainly be entertaining. Ga-Tech/FSU would be nice. That is why WVU/Pitt or U of L or Va-Tech is appealing. ACC needs those regional rivalries.

Texas and Oklahoma are looking West to join the PAC-12...Because the PAC-12 NEEDS them...The ACC, BIG and SEC just want at least one of them...Therein is the difference!!!

Larry Scott and the PAC-12 Presidents and AD's won't screw it up the next time around...When the Big-12's GOR's are up for renewal, the Big-12 will fold...Besides, The PAC-12 is the ONLY conference that will take the Oklahoma Schools tied at the hip!!!

Which is ironic, because the SEC would have a good pair to go along with the Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee Schools...Think about it...They'd add Bedlam to the Banjo Bowl (Tennessee-Vanderbilt), Egg Bowl and Iron Bowl...And the populations of Alabama and Mississippi are NOT much more than Oklahoma...If at all!!!

So the PAC-12 will take The Oklahoma Schools, Texas and Texas Tech...But, they may have to settle for Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech if Oklahoma is NOT tied at the hip to the Cowboys, and heads to the BIG, and Texas heads to the ACC!!!

West Virginia is a Geographic Fit for the ACC, but they are a Cultural Fit for the SEC...Reunite them, and their Family Feud with Kentucky...The Hatfield's and McCoy's...Besides, They bring ZERO Recruiting Grounds...Cincinnati on the other hand gets the ACC in to the Fertile Ohio Recruiting Grounds!!!

West Virginia hands Kentucky another loss each season and reduces their chances of Bowl Eligibility, and KILLS their Ohio Recruiting...Which ALL Louisville Fans SHOULD WANT...While also adding another ACC-SEC Rivalry Game...The Back Yard Brawl (Pittsburgh-West Virginia)!!!

I think The PAC-12 gets the Oklahoma and Texas Schools...The ACC gets either Cincinnati (My Pick, for Ohio HS Recruiting), or West Virginia...The BIG gets Stuck taking Connecticut and Kansas...And The SEC takes West Virginia...Maybe East Carolina (It's the ONLY way They're getting into North Carolina), or a Houston, TCU , Tulane type school!!!

The rest of the Big-12 Schools will end up in the MWC along with BYU...We're going to end up with Four P-4 Conferences (ACC, BIG, PAC and SEC), and Four G-4 Conferences (AAC, CUSA, MAC and MWC)...That's 128 FBS Teams!!!

That's my Two cents Worth...Oh...And the POD System Would W-O-R-K!!!

 

[zipp]

Whether they stand by their prior remarks or not, Texas has said they would move EAST if they move anywhere. The Horns aren't exactly the best mates in your conference, but a Big XII splintering would reduce their bargaining power. And they would probably be interested in membership along the lines of what ND currently has--until both schools figure out that the rest of the nation isn't interested in their desires to remain independent. Both football programs are becoming shadows of their former selves.

For my money, that scenario sounds more appealing than simply adding WVU. Texas and ND partially in and then all the way in would make the ACC stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Big Ten and SEC if we don't already...

 

[CommodoreCard]

I'm not a big fan of West Virginia being in the ACC. I hope they end up in the Sun Belt when the Big 12 implodes.

I'm all for getting Notre Dame and Texas all in full time members.

No Cincinnati, No UConn

 

[American Male]

I'm not a big fan of West Virginia being in the ACC. I hope they end up in the Sun Belt when the Big 12 implodes.

I'm all for getting Notre Dame and Texas all in full time members.

No Cincinnati, No UConn

West Virginia would be adding the winningest program without a National Championship...So the pedigree is there!!!

Notre Dame and Texas both bring Star Power...They also bring B-I-G H-E-A-D-S...Look at me I'm S-P-E-C-I-A-L...I'm Notre Dame...I'm Texas...I W-A-N-T things my way...Or, I'll take my ball and go home!!!

To me, Texas is more of a cancer than Notre Dame is!!! If they can both be EQUAL Conference Members...NO separate LHN and NBC Contracts...Then it's a Win-Win...If not…Then it’s the Big East All Over Again…A minority of the schools dictating conference policy!!!

As for Cincinnati, try to remember how you felt when the Big East was falling apart and Louisville NEEDED a home…Or else we would be where they are today…Have you become so much like a Can-Suck-Me Fan that they (Cincinnati), are considered too L-O-W-E-L-Y to be a P4 Conference Member!?!?!? The Bearcats are also one of Louisville’s Oldest Natural Rivals…That should account for something!!!

You don't need to worry about Connecticut...With the U-G-L-Y fighting that went on between them and Boston College when BC left the Big East for the ACC…BC would vote no...As would the primary football schools (Clemson, FSU, and Virginia Tech), and to a lesser extent, Georgia Tech, Louisville and NC State...The ACC is no longer just a basketball conference...Duke and UNC no longer weld the power they once did!!!

In the end, the ACC will pick a team, along with Notre Dame, to complete the 16 team conference…The selections are few and far between…East Carolina is a no (Another NC School)…Temple brings the Philadelphia Market and the Eastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey HS Recruiting…Navy would bring the Maryland, and DC Markets and its HS Recruiting…Central Florida entrenches you deeper into Orlando...South Florida gets you entrenched deeper into Tampa...Other than those five schools and the aforementioned Cincinnati, Connecticut, Texas and West Virginia…That’s it for the ACC’s candidates!!!

Thus, let the debates begin!!!

 

[KozmasAgain]

The thing that kills West Virginia is there fan base, they are too violent to be in the conference. I have heard horror stories about how opposing fans have been treated when going to a game in Morgantown.
I would prefer Cincinnati because of our past affiliation with them, TV market, recruiting base and proximity to us. I am not big on Texas because I think they want too much control, they are not team players.

 

[glassmanJ]

why would a 16 team league not simply be 8 and 8 team divisions? you'd play 7 games against same div teams and two against other div. that's nine games and you get two to play against anyone else. every four years you repeat playing the opp div. all rivalries remain intact and if you want to waste one of your 2 optional games playing your rival yearly that's your choice, even if they are in your league it would not count as a league game if they choose that option.

each div winner plays for conference title and auto berth into 8 team playoff. if every league went to 16 team and did this way you could have 6 leagues with 16 teams. 6 league title winners get auto into 8 team playoff, 2 teams not div winners get at large bids.

 

[American Male]

why would a 16 team league not simply be 8 and 8 team divisions? you'd play 7 games against same div teams and two against other div. that's nine games and you get two to play against anyone else. every four years you repeat playing the opp div. all rivalries remain intact and if you want to waste one of your 2 optional games playing your rival yearly that's your choice, even if they are in your league it would not count as a league game if they choose that option.

each div winner plays for conference title and auto berth into 8 team playoff. if every league went to 16 team and did this way you could have 6 leagues with 16 teams. 6 league title winners get auto into 8 team playoff, 2 teams not div winners get at large bids.

Because you'd have to put all the North Carolina Schools in the same division so that they're playing each other on a yearly basis, which makes it a weak division...Unless you pair them with Clemson, FSU and Louisville etc... to strengthen it...Which ultimately overloads one division again...Just look at the current Atlantic and Coastal alignments now!!!

Setting it up in pods allows the NC Schools to play its main rival every year, in pod and cross pod...Duke and UNC in one pod gives UNC a yearly cross pod rival in NC State and Virginia, and Duke gets Wake and so forth!!!

Clemson and FSU in the same pod serves the same purpose, and FSU gets Miame cross pod every year while Clemson gets Louisville every year...And with Virginia and Virginia Tech in the same pod, that rivalry is solved too...As is Georgia Tech and Miami being in the same pod!!!

The pods I laid out in a previous post above makes it pretty simple to see how it would work out using pods...The only thing missing is team #16...Realistically, there are three canidates of the nine I mentioned above (Cincinnati, Texas and West Virginia), for the ACC to get to 16 members...And each of those three have advantages and disadvantages that they would bring...The ACC and its member schools must select the best choice of the three!!!

Of the three, the school with the least baggage is Cincinnati...Texas and Wet Virginia offer more tradition and pedigree...Texas brings Star Power and HS Football Recruiting (Cincinnati brings HS Football Recruiting too)...And M-A-J-O-R Headachs, while WVU brings Rabid 'I-D-I-O-T' Fans...And Nothing else...Thus, its up to the ACC and its member schools to select the BEST Option for the Long Term Success of the conference...That's how we were selected over Cincinnati and Connecticut the last go round!!!

 

[topdecktiger]

why would a 16 team league not simply be 8 and 8 team divisions? you'd play 7 games against same div teams and two against other div. that's nine games and you get two to play against anyone else. every four years you repeat playing the opp div. all rivalries remain intact and if you want to waste one of your 2 optional games playing your rival yearly that's your choice, even if they are in your league it would not count as a league game if they choose that option.

each div winner plays for conference title and auto berth into 8 team playoff. if every league went to 16 team and did this way you could have 6 leagues with 16 teams. 6 league title winners get auto into 8 team playoff, 2 teams not div winners get at large bids.

You would be 8 and 8 with two divisions. It's just that the 8 teams that make up each division would not be the same every year.

The reason you don't have permanent divisions is that you wouldn't get to play the teams on the opposite side enough. It's bad enough now, but it would be worse at 16, especially with Notre Dame in the picture. You would lose too many good games for TV.

To your second point about the playoffs, that requires a rules change and an agreement between all conferences. The rotation scenario is simply an internal conference matter that requires no outside agreement or rules change, or any other alteration of the current landscape.

 

[CommodoreCard]

West Virginia would be adding the winningest program without a National Championship...So the pedigree is there!!!

Notre Dame and Texas both bring Star Power...They also bring B-I-G H-E-A-D-S...Look at me I'm S-P-E-C-I-A-L...I'm Notre Dame...I'm Texas...I W-A-N-T things my way...Or, I'll take my ball and go home!!!

To me, Texas is more of a cancer than Notre Dame is!!! If they can both be EQUAL Conference Members...NO separate LHN and NBC Contracts...Then it's a Win-Win...If not…Then it’s the Big East All Over Again…A minority of the schools dictating conference policy!!!

As for Cincinnati, try to remember how you felt when the Big East was falling apart and Louisville NEEDED a home…Or else we would be where they are today…Have you become so much like a Can-Suck-Me Fan that they (Cincinnati), are considered too L-O-W-E-L-Y to be a P4 Conference Member!?!?!? The Bearcats are also one of Louisville’s Oldest Natural Rivals…That should account for something!!!

You don't need to worry about Connecticut...With the U-G-L-Y fighting that went on between them and Boston College when BC left the Big East for the ACC…BC would vote no...As would the primary football schools (Clemson, FSU, and Virginia Tech), and to a lesser extent, Georgia Tech, Louisville and NC State...The ACC is no longer just a basketball conference...Duke and UNC no longer weld the power they once did!!!

In the end, the ACC will pick a team, along with Notre Dame, to complete the 16 team conference…The selections are few and far between…East Carolina is a no (Another NC School)…Temple brings the Philadelphia Market and the Eastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey HS Recruiting…Navy would bring the Maryland, and DC Markets and its HS Recruiting…Central Florida entrenches you deeper into Orlando...South Florida gets you entrenched deeper into Tampa...Other than those five schools and the aforementioned Cincinnati, Connecticut, Texas and West Virginia…That’s it for the ACC’s candidates!!!

Thus, let the debates begin!!!

I do remember how a big headed program tried to rule a conference. It was the University of Louisville griping about East Carolina being added to C-USA. The other members almost voted us out way back in the 90's.

I loathe Texas but they are the cream of what would be left of the Big 12-2. If you are going to pick apart a carcass, you start with the meatiest and juiciest parts first.