Nick Petrino Hired

[gocards1987]

Adopting knuckles' narrative...

I think many of the posters here don't know jack about coaching and cause-and-effect.

Irrelevant to the discussion...

Its not a narrative. Petrino went from a P5 school to FCS. That does not happen to coaches who did a good job. How is it irrelevant if you thought the coaches needed to go or not when the discussion is about whether or not the reasoning behind their firing was valid or not? If you thought they could turn it around then fine go ahead and defend it. If not, why are you trying to defend Petrino as a competent coach other than simply disagreeing with whatever Tyra does?

 

[WhatMeWorry]

Nick Petrino was making $200k/yr at Louisville. He is now in a position that pays around $48k/yr. However despite making 1/4 of his prior salary...that is better than BVG. He was making nearly $1.0M/yr at Louisville. He accepted a position that pays in the $150k/yr range.

Both are now making what they are worth.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Coaches know “coaches”. That’s why nobody in the NFL ever gets “fired”. They just change jobs a lot.

Problem is, no Coaches know whether NP can coach or not because he’s never worked for anybody but Daddy.

His career is starting now, and we will find out.

 

[Art79]

I don't give a damn how "endeared" you are--be assured that's not my intention.

You CLAIM a nuanced narrative that no one BUT you remembers. What the rest of us recall are bold, unqualified statements that our prior coaches were unfit for their jobs and couldn't get jobs elsewhere in football...

Not true, Zipp. I remember Hank’s previous comments well, and I suspect several others do as well. He made this point several times in your thread titled “Wasn't the popular narrative that U of L football coaches?...”, where he clearly stated (again, several times) that his “narrative” was that the coaches were simply not a quality ACC staff and that they were overpaid. All you have to do is go back and re-read that thread. But maybe you don’t want to do that, because that thread went badly for you as you ended up getting owned in that one on multiple points. C’mon, man up, and don’t pretend that he misrepresented the previous discussion. I think you know better.

 

[beantowncard]

Where do those deductions come from?...

They are not deductions, they are questions.

 

[zipp]

No, it’s germane to this thread as a rebuttal to your assertion that successful coaches don’t simply go into the dumpster. The historical record indicates that Petrino’s programs do indeed go suddenly into the dumpster. It only makes sense that similar P5 programs would be wary of hiring coaches from his programs into comparable positions with comparable compensation.

And so they don’t - which speaks directly to KH’s original statement.

Actually, if Petrino's renowned for failing programs, IT'S EVEN MORE A TESTAMENT TO THESE COACHES that they so quickly land new jobs.

On second thought, thanks for mentioning that...

 

[zipp]

Not true, Zipp. I remember Hank’s previous comments well, and I suspect several others do as well. He made this point several times in your thread titled “Wasn't the popular narrative that U of L football coaches?...”, where he clearly stated (again, several times) that his “narrative” was that the coaches were simply not a quality ACC staff and that they were overpaid. All you have to do is go back and re-read that thread. But maybe you don’t want to do that, because that thread went badly for you as you ended up getting owned in that one on multiple points. C’mon, man up, and don’t pretend that he misrepresented the previous discussion. I think you know better.

Thanks for mentioning that thread. knuckles' morphed narrative is well after these coaches landing new coaching jobs, proven in that thread and others like this one.

Some of you guys don't know when you've lost a debate. That these coaches were unfit for coaching jobs as evidenced by what happened here was then and still is a load of garbage. Try starting a new debate...

 

[zipp]

Its not a narrative. Petrino went from a P5 school to FCS. That does not happen to coaches who did a good job. How is it irrelevant if you thought the coaches needed to go or not when the discussion is about whether or not the reasoning behind their firing was valid or not? If you thought they could turn it around then fine go ahead and defend it. If not, why are you trying to defend Petrino as a competent coach other than simply disagreeing with whatever Tyra does?

I'm not defending against anything except the failed narrative that these coaches as a group couldn't coach. The rest of the nation evidently feels otherwise.

And please find me another set of fired coaches who move laterally into coaching positions a few months after losing their jobs. Take your time...

 

[zipp]

Coaches know “coaches”. That’s why nobody in the NFL ever gets “fired”. They just change jobs a lot.

Problem is, no Coaches know whether NP can coach or not because he’s never worked for anybody but Daddy.

His career is starting now, and we will find out.

No Rollem, you're wrong. I was told more times than I can count how little Nick knows about coaching QBs and how under-qualified he is/was.

Only when you change your story can you say anything close to that with a straight face. I predict we'll soon start hearing how stupid schools like UT-Martin are, and from fans in this space who are so adept at judging coaching ability...

 

[zipp]

Facts support the premise. When these guys are making a fraction of what they made at UofL it’s strong support that they “weren’t ACC quality and were overpaid”. You are smart enough to see that but are just acting deliberately silly.

Feel free to tackle the same question...

Find me another set of fired coaches who move laterally into coaching positions a few months after losing their jobs.

Ignoring that is "just acting deliberately silly"...

 

[zipp]

They are not deductions, they are questions.

My bad, you're right. They were half baked questions...

 

[gocards1987]

I'm not defending against anything except the failed narrative that these coaches as a group couldn't coach. The rest of the nation evidently feels otherwise.

And please find me another set of fired coaches who move laterally into coaching positions a few months after losing their jobs. Take your time...

The narrative was that they werent good enough to win here. Them going 2-10 with showed that. I wouldnt say any of the jobs they got helped to prove otherwise.

Coaches who perform poorly have gotten jobs before. Some do better and some dont. Them getting jobs doesnt mean they didnt deserve to get fired and there is a reason that coaches who got fired dont get similar jobs. It because they failed at the one before and its bad business to give that person a promotion

 

[BPGhost]

Actually, if Petrino's renowned for failing programs, IT'S EVEN MORE A TESTAMENT TO THESE COACHES that they so quickly land new jobs.

On second thought, thanks for mentioning that...

Lol - little nicky went from being the sous chef at a Michelin two star restaurant, to the fry guy at a Rally’s. Hey - but he’s still in the food service industry, so that’s a “testament” to him. The mental gymnastics needed for such a viewpoint are astounding.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Feel free to tackle the same question...

Find me another set of fired coaches who move laterally into coaching positions a few months after losing their jobs.

Ignoring that is "just acting deliberately silly"...

After Bret Bielema was fired at Arkansas, his staff got positions at the following:

Michigan, UCLA, Missouri, Northwestern, UTEP, UK, South Carolina, Atlanta Falcons, Arkansas

 

[zipp]

The narrative was that they werent good enough to win here. Them going 2-10 with showed that. I wouldnt say any of the jobs they got helped to prove otherwise.

Coaches who perform poorly have gotten jobs before. Some do better and some dont. Them getting jobs doesnt mean they didnt deserve to get fired and there is a reason that coaches who got fired dont get similar jobs. It because they failed at the one before and its bad business to give that person a promotion

 

[zipp]

After Bret Bielema was fired at Arkansas, his staff got positions at the following:

Michigan, UCLA, Missouri, Northwestern, UTEP, UK, South Carolina, Atlanta Falcons, Arkansas

Names, former positions at Arkansas, new positions with those teams, and elapsed times? Feel free to tabulate your data...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Names, former positions at Arkansas, new positions with those teams, and elapsed times? Feel free to tabulate your data...

If you are interested there is this cool thing called google. To save you some time, these are the places they coached the next season.

Aren’t you getting tired of being dunked on?

 

[zipp]

If you are interested there is this cool thing called google. To save you some time, these are the places they coached the next season.

Aren’t you getting tired of being dunked on?

If I ever get "dunked on", I'll let you know.

You fully present your own data, not incomplete generalities to score points for yourself.

We have those details for Petrino's former staff here. Please provide the same for your example. I assume those details support your position...

 

[Knucklehank1]

If I ever get "dunked on", I'll let you know.

You fully present your own data, not incomplete generalities to score points for yourself.

We have those details for Petrino's former staff here. Please provide the same for your example. I assume those details support your position...

So now you want the full backstory behind each data point? How convenient! It is a nice way to deflect though so I applaud you for that. You asked for a staff that got fired and I offer you the staff - the Arkansas Razorbacks. Feel free to dissect their landing spots if it’ll make you feel better. Pretty sure you won’t find any UT Martin’s and 3 unemployed on there.

 

[zipp]

So now you want the full backstory behind each data point? How convenient!...

I told you what I needed to make an apples-to-apples comparison. It's not a "back story".

And if you refuse to provide it for YOUR example, it tells me what I need to know... That a direct comparison to the U of L-Petrino situation doesn't exist.

 

[gocards1987]

So now you want the full backstory behind each data point? How convenient! It is a nice way to deflect though so I applaud you for that. You asked for a staff that got fired and I offer you the staff - the Arkansas Razorbacks. Feel free to dissect their landing spots if it’ll make you feel better. Pretty sure you won’t find any UT Martin’s and 3 unemployed on there.

If nothing else Zipp is entertaining at times. He throws out skewed and complete BS data all the time and then asks for your data. When you do it, he attempts to just completely ignore it.
I always picture a grown man sitting at his computer with his hands in his ears yelling "I can't hear you" "I can't hear you"

 

[gocards1987]

I told you what I needed to make an apples-to-apples comparison. It's not a "back story".

And if you refuse to provide it for YOUR example, it tells me what I need to know... That a direct comparison to the U of L-Petrino situation doesn't exist.

What isn't apples to apples? Petrino got fired and Bielema got fired. He told you the jobs the assistants got and also specified that the was the jobs they got in their 1st years after getting fired. Sounds like apples to apples to me.

 

[Art79]

As for other examples...
How about Mark Richt and his Georgia staff, after Richt was ousted at Georgia after the 2015 season. Richt wound up as HC at Miami. His assistants ended up as follows: 2 went to the NFL, 2 stayed at Georgia, 1 went to Alabama (Pruitt, as DC), 1 followed Richt to Miami, 1 went to SC, 1 went to Arizona State, and 1 went to North Texas (inside linebackers coach at Georgia to DC at North Texas). Not bad.

 

[zipp]

As for other examples...
How about Mark Richt and his Georgia staff, after Richt was ousted at Georgia after the 2015 season. Richt wound up as HC at Miami. His assistants ended up as follows: 2 went to the NFL, 2 stayed at Georgia, 1 went to Alabama (Pruitt, as DC), 1 followed Richt to Miami, 1 went to SC, 1 went to Arizona State, and 1 went to North Texas (inside linebackers coach at Georgia to DC at North Texas). Not bad.

Richt did not make a lateral move. And what are the particulars on his assistant coaches: names, former and new positions, and elapsed time frames?

 

[Art79]

Richt did not make a lateral move. And what are the particulars on his assistant coaches: names, former and new positions, and elapsed time frames?

The elapsed time frame? I gave you Richt's coaches positions for the very NEXT season. Use Google if you need more. (Or, if you provide the Petrino staff details, I'll be glad to give you all of the specific details for Richt's staff. Per the list I provided earlier, there's really no comparison.)

As for whether Richt's move was lateral or not, it's worth noting that Miami has won 5 national championships, all 5 of them since Georgia's last national championship in 1980. And he got that job within a couple of weeks. I loved him the first time around, but where's Bobby now, 5 months later?

 

[zipp]

Just for S&Gs, I dug up knuckles' example for Arkansas assistants...

Barry Lunney Jr. retained position at Arkansas (=)
Dan Enos went from OC/QB coach to QB coach at Bama (-)
Vernon Hargreaves took same coaching position at Missouri (=/-)
Paul Rhoads went from DC/secondary coach to secondary coach at UCLA (-)
Kurt Anderson took same coaching position at Northwestern (-)
Reggie Mitchell took same coaching position at UTEP (-)
John Scott Jr. took same coaching position at USCjr (=)
Michael Smith took same coaching position at LPT (-)
Chad Walker went from LB coach to "offensive assistant" for the Falcons (?)

If I add up the moves, I see three equal (=) signs and six minus (-) signs, which is about what I expected. If this is the best example anyone can come up with, I rest my case...

 

[zipp]

As much as I enjoy data analysis on this topic, keep in mind the context for the fanboy narratives in this space...

Don't just bring me the BEST examples of coaches landing on their feet. Bring me the AVERAGE or TYPICAL results.

And the reason that's your bar is because YOU have said these ex-Petrino coaches were godawful, couldn't get coaching jobs, etc. That means they're among the worst out there.

AND it means they're WORSE THAN AVERAGE--not just worse than the best.

I'm doing fanboys/haters a favor by examining your best examples, like knuckles' Arkansas bomb. To convince me today, show me where average coaches who get pink slipped consistently land on their feet in equal jobs and quickly.

I love data--bring it on (and hopefully better than knuckles has...)

 

[zipp]

The elapsed time frame? I gave you Richt's coaches positions for the very NEXT season. Use Google if you need more. (Or, if you provide the Petrino staff details, I'll be glad to give you all of the specific details for Richt's staff. Per the list I provided earlier, there's really no comparison.)

As for whether Richt's move was lateral or not, it's worth noting that Miami has won 5 national championships, all 5 of them since Georgia's last national championship in 1980. And he got that job within a couple of weeks. I loved him the first time around, but where's Bobby now, 5 months later?

No one but you in this debate wants to consider Miami football equal to Georgia.

But it doesn't matter because this debate is primarily about ASSISTANTS like Nick Petrino...

 

[Knucklehank1]

Just for S&Gs, I dug up knuckles' example for Arkansas assistants...

Barry Lunney Jr. retained position at Arkansas (=)
Dan Enos went from OC/QB coach to QB coach at Bama (-)
Vernon Hargreaves took same coaching position at Missouri (=/-)
Paul Rhoads went from DC/secondary coach to secondary coach at UCLA (-)
Kurt Anderson took same coaching position at Northwestern (-)
Reggie Mitchell took same coaching position at UTEP (-)
John Scott Jr. took same coaching position at USCjr (=)
Michael Smith took same coaching position at LPT (-)
Chad Walker went from LB coach to "offensive assistant" for the Falcons (?)

If I add up the moves, I see three equal (=) signs and six minus (-) signs, which is about what I expected. If this is the best example anyone can come up with, I rest my case...

This was the first example i thought of because I would say UofL and Arkansas are swimming in similar waters. And what it further proves is that, despite being fired all of the coaches (except 1) were all P5 quality. It does nothing to refute the narrative that UofL coaches weren’t ACC quality.

It’s weird that somehow you think this refutes anything I’ve said. You’ve basically just dunked on yourself.

PS: two of your (-) are for coaches that took same role in SEC and Big 10. Not exactly the Sun Belt and the MAC. And while we’re at it, Dan Enos was in-line to be OC at Bama this year but opted to go to Miami. I know those aren’t UT Martin, but they are decent.

 

[Knucklehank1]

8 of 9.

2 of 10.

So 8 of the 9 fired coaches from Bielema’s staff land in P5/NFL jobs. 2 of 10 coaches from Petrino’s staff land in P5 jobs.

Only Zipp would consider this to be “winning” data.

Dunk.

 

[Art79]

8 of 9.
2 of 10.

So 8 of the 9 fired coaches from Bielema’s staff land in P5 jobs. 2 of 10 coaches from Petrino’s staff land in P5 jobs.

Only Zipp would consider this to be “winning” data.

Dunk.

The stats are similar for Richt's staff. 6 of 9 went to P5 jobs, plus 2 went to NFL jobs. So 8 of 9 went to the P5 or NFL versus 2 from Petrino's staff.

Another dunk.

 

[zipp]

This was the first example i thought of because I would say UofL and Arkansas are swimming in similar waters. And what it further proves is that, despite being fired all of the coaches (except 1) were all P5 quality. It does nothing to refute the narrative that UofL coaches weren’t ACC quality.

It’s weird that somehow you think this refutes anything I’ve said. You’ve basically just dunked on yourself.

PS: two of your (-) are for coaches that took same role in SEC and Big 10. Not exactly the Sun Belt and the MAC. And while we’re at it, Dan Enos was in-line to be OC at Bama this year but opted to go to Miami. I know those aren’t UT Martin, but they are decent.

I'm gonna make it easy on you and present your apples-to-apples comparison opportunities...

Below is the list of FBS coaches who were fired at the same time as Petrino. Make your case that these affected assistants have generally fared better in the job marketplace than Petrino's assistants--therein indicating how subpar our guys were. I have no idea since I have looked at any of these situations in depth. This isn't cherry picking, it's the complete list.

You need the coach's name, his former position, and where he is now.

This isn't about Arkansas or Miami or any other school you want to choose. I don't trust how your agenda biases your analysis anymore than you trust mine.

Show me the results, and I'm convinced...

SCHOOL COACH FIRED
Akron Terry Bowden
Missouri Mike MacIntyre
Maryland DJ Durkin
Charlotte Will Healy
Umass Mark Whipple
E Carolina Scottie Montgomery
Cent Mich John Bonamego
Texas Tech Kliff Kingsbury
Texas State Everett Withers
Bowling Green Mike Jinks
No Carolina Larry Fedora
WKU Mike Sanford
Kansas Dave Beaty

 

[gocards1987]

As much as I enjoy data analysis on this topic, keep in mind the context for the fanboy narratives in this space...

Don't just bring me the BEST examples of coaches landing on their feet. Bring me the AVERAGE or TYPICAL results.

And the reason that's your bar is because YOU have said these ex-Petrino coaches were godawful, couldn't get coaching jobs, etc. That means they're among the worst out there.

AND it means they're WORSE THAN AVERAGE--not just worse than the best.

I'm doing fanboys/haters a favor by examining your best examples, like knuckles' Arkansas bomb. To convince me today, show me where average coaches who get pink slipped consistently land on their feet in equal jobs and quickly.

I love data--bring it on (and hopefully better than knuckles has...)

Didn't Petrino's staff prove they weren't Acc caliber when they could not win any Acc games and got blown out in all but one? Coaches that got fired tend to get worse jobs because they showed to not be capable of the one they are doing. Petrino's staff got jobs at G5 and FCS schools for the most part which is the level most should have been at in the 1st place.

 

[gocards1987]

I'm gonna make it easy on you and present your apples-to-apples comparison opportunities...

Below is the list of FBS coaches who were fired at the same time as Petrino. Make your case that these affected assistants have generally fared better in the job marketplace than Petrino's assistants--therein indicating how subpar our guys were. I have no idea since I have looked at any of these situations in depth. This isn't cherry picking, it's the complete list.

You need the coach's name, his former position, and where he is now.

This isn't about Arkansas or Miami or any other school you want to choose. I don't trust how your agenda biases your analysis anymore than you trust mine.

Show me the results, and I'm convinced...

SCHOOL COACH FIRED
Akron Terry Bowden
Missouri Mike MacIntyre
Maryland DJ Durkin
Charlotte Will Healy
Umass Mark Whipple
E Carolina Scottie Montgomery
Cent Mich John Bonamego
Texas Tech Kliff Kingsbury
Texas State Everett Withers
Bowling Green Mike Jinks
No Carolina Larry Fedora
WKU Mike Sanford
Kansas Dave Beaty

They all got fired for losing. Chances are a lot of their staffs are subpar also. Maybe not Petrino bad but not good either.

 

[beantowncard]

My bad, you're right. They were half baked questions...

Since you usually offer half-baked responses, I think those are appropriate. Will you now answer?

 

[Knucklehank1]

I'm gonna make it easy on you and present your apples-to-apples comparison opportunities...

Below is the list of FBS coaches who were fired at the same time as Petrino. Make your case that these affected assistants have generally fared better in the job marketplace than Petrino's assistants--therein indicating how subpar our guys were. I have no idea since I have looked at any of these situations in depth. This isn't cherry picking, it's the complete list.

You need the coach's name, his former position, and where he is now.

This isn't about Arkansas or Miami or any other school you want to choose. I don't trust how your agenda biases your analysis anymore than you trust mine.

Show me the results, and I'm convinced...

SCHOOL COACH FIRED
Akron Terry Bowden
Missouri Mike MacIntyre
Maryland DJ Durkin
Charlotte Will Healy
Umass Mark Whipple
E Carolina Scottie Montgomery
Cent Mich John Bonamego
Texas Tech Kliff Kingsbury
Texas State Everett Withers
Bowling Green Mike Jinks
No Carolina Larry Fedora
WKU Mike Sanford
Kansas Dave Beaty

Earlier you asked for one example. Then you get dunked on and want to kick the can further down the road.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I'm gonna make it easy on you and present your apples-to-apples comparison opportunities...

Below is the list of FBS coaches who were fired at the same time as Petrino. Make your case that these affected assistants have generally fared better in the job marketplace than Petrino's assistants--therein indicating how subpar our guys were. I have no idea since I have looked at any of these situations in depth. This isn't cherry picking, it's the complete list.

You need the coach's name, his former position, and where he is now.

This isn't about Arkansas or Miami or any other school you want to choose. I don't trust how your agenda biases your analysis anymore than you trust mine.

Show me the results, and I'm convinced...

SCHOOL COACH FIRED
Akron Terry Bowden
Missouri Mike MacIntyre
Maryland DJ Durkin
Charlotte Will Healy
Umass Mark Whipple
E Carolina Scottie Montgomery
Cent Mich John Bonamego
Texas Tech Kliff Kingsbury
Texas State Everett Withers
Bowling Green Mike Jinks
No Carolina Larry Fedora
WKU Mike Sanford
Kansas Dave Beaty

So the first coach listed is Mike McIntyre who actually was fired from Colorado. His staff ended up at:

NC State
Indianapolis Colts
Colorado
Kansas
Colorado
Louisville
Retired
Colorado
Kansas

So 8 out 9 are in P5/NFL with the lone holdout being a guy who has retired.

 

[zipp]

So the first coach listed is Mike McIntyre who actually was fired from Colorado. His staff ended up at:

NC State
Indianapolis Colts
Colorado
Kansas
Colorado
Louisville
Retired
Colorado
Kansas

So 8 out 9 are in P5/NFL with the lone holdout being a guy who has retired.

Again, what positions? Going from a coordinator's job to a quality control assistant, for example, ain't a lateral move...

 

[zipp]

Earlier you asked for one example. Then you get dunked on and want to kick the can further down the road.

There should be many examples if our coaches were as bad as you say. Proving that may rise to the level of "dunked on". I'll let you know if you get there...

 

[zipp]

They all got fired for losing. Chances are a lot of their staffs are subpar also. Maybe not Petrino bad but not good either.

No, the reason our team was so bad was because our coaches were so bad and they couldn't get jobs elsewhere. If that's true, comparisons oughta be easy to find. I'm even helping you find them...