Mick Cronin on Grad Transfers

[Mike'sMarbles]

I didn't realize Mick was doing so poorly in the post-season. 1 Sweet 16? How does he keep his job? The standards at UC are incredibly low. They must just be happy if they pop into the Top 25 once in a while and get a bid.

For me, his lack of post-season success invalidates his opinion on Grad Transfers. If he were crashing Final Fours I might think he spoke as an authority on these issues.

He's a post-season dud giving out advice on Grad Transfers. The more I think about it the funnier it sounds. "Hey, I'm Mick from the First Weekend. Here's my formula and I'm not changing it!"

Can you imagine if this guy tried to get coffee in front of Alec Baldwin? "Mick, put that coffee down. Coffee and Grad Transfers are for Closers."

 

[nccardfan]

Still nobody has proven that Mack is a great coach and Cronin is a mediocre coach. I didn’t say that Mack couldn’t still become a great coach, but I will also say there are things I found somewhat disappointing especially how we finished the season. Calimari is a better coach than Pitino because he won more head to head contests?

 

[Cue Card]

No, but everyone seems to want him to become one or at least transfer. Why because he’s not the talent we thought he was? As far as I know he’s done everything staff has asked him to do; I.e. he got stronger. Bottom line he’s done nothing to lose his scholarship but some fans want him to give it up to a “better” player. He’s just on the other side of it.

I don't want him to transfer. I want him on the team as a senior next year. That experience level can only help the team.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I agree, I don't want any transfers. We had 2 non-existent recruiting classes in a row before this year's class. We need all the bodies we can get if nothing else than for depth.

 

[gocards1987]

Still nobody has proven that Mack is a great coach and Cronin is a mediocre coach. I didn’t say that Mack couldn’t still become a great coach, but I will also say there are things I found somewhat disappointing especially how we finished the season. Calimari is a better coach than Pitino because he won more head to head contests?

Mack has 4 times the number of 2nd weekend appearances that Cronin has in less years coaching. That isn't even close to being the same post season record. The end of this season was disappointing but we overachieved this season.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Mack has 4 times the number of 2nd weekend appearances that Cronin has in less years coaching. That isn't even close to being the same post season record. The end of this season was disappointing but we overachieved this season.

Based on the info IPartied provided on this subject, I'm ready to entertain the possibility that Mick was Pitino's errand guy who somehow got mistaken for a coach.

 

[nccardfan]

Mack has 4 times the number of 2nd weekend appearances that Cronin has in less years coaching. That isn't even close to being the same post season record. The end of this season was disappointing but we overachieved this season.

So again it’s all about post season. I wish I knew how to copy that “moving goal posts” thing. Mack is older but yet Cronin has more wins and a higher winning percentage. Maybe because Mack was coaching girls HS basketball. Maybe you want to add those to his great resume.

 

[gocards1987]

Based on the info IPartied provided on this subject, I'm ready to entertain the possibility that Mick was Pitino's errand guy who somehow got mistaken for a coach.

I dont think Mick is terrible. Cinci could do worse as he has them at or near the top of the conference most years. It is hard to argue he has the same stats as Mack though.

 

[gocards1987]

So again it’s all about post season. I wish I knew how to copy that “moving goal posts” thing. Mack is older but yet Cronin has more wins and a higher winning percentage. Maybe because Mack was coaching girls HS basketball. Maybe you want to add those to his great resume.

There is no moving goal posts. Cronin was originally being criticized for his post season record. That is why the conversation started there originally. In less seasons Mack has the same number of conference regular season titles and a higher avg finish. Cronin has done better in the conference tourney but that is a strange place to determine how good a coach is especially if said coach loses a week later in the ncaa tourney. So if Mack does better in the regular season and better in the ncaa tourney, how are he and Cronin basically the same. Winning the conference tourney does mean all that much if you rarely get out of the 1st weekend a week later.

Why is the shot at Mack's (our coach) career prior to coaching in necessary. Both coaches have been in D1 bball for a decade so they both have long enough body of work to compare the two. Like it or not a coach's career is judged by the ncaa tourney moreso than anything else.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

Based on the info IPartied provided on this subject, I'm ready to entertain the possibility that Mick was Pitino's errand guy who somehow got mistaken for a coach.

I won't go that far. Mick worked his way up from errand boy to assistant under Huggins at UC before joining RP's staff here. Huggs was p/o'd at Mick going to a conference rival but it was a good career move. IIRC he was HC at Murray State for two years before returning to UC. Mick's a good coach but has trouble recruiting offensive talent for his bland offense. That is the knock on him up here in Cincy area.

 

[nccardfan]

There is no moving goal posts. Cronin was originally being criticized for his post season record. That is why the conversation started there originally. In less seasons Mack has the same number of conference regular season titles and a higher avg finish. Cronin has done better in the conference tourney but that is a strange place to determine how good a coach is especially if said coach loses a week later in the ncaa tourney. So if Mack does better in the regular season and better in the ncaa tourney, how are he and Cronin basically the same. Winning the conference tourney does mean all that much if you rarely get out of the 1st weekend a week later.

Why is the shot at Mack's (our coach) career prior to coaching in necessary. Both coaches have been in D1 bball for a decade so they both have long enough body of work to compare the two. Like it or not a coach's career is judged by the ncaa tourney moreso than anything else.

Exactly both have been in D1 basketball for a decade. Cronin has 361 victories to Mack’s 232. Mick has more wins than total D1 games by Mack. I guess someone didn’t think someone was ready to be a HC. Hmmm.. but all you want to compare is postseason? Some of it has to do with the conference you were in at that particular time. Mack was pretty much a midmajor until their last year when they went Big East but a watered down Big East without Syracuse, Pitt and U of L. Connecticut on probation and influx of mid-major teams. Mack is a good coach but so is Mick. I’m glad Mack is our coach but I’m not going to discredit Cronin to make it seem that Mack is so much better. The story ain’t finished yet.

 

[gocards1987]

Exactly both have been in D1 basketball for a decade. Cronin has 361 victories to Mack’s 232. Mick has more wins than total D1 games by Mack. I guess someone didn’t think someone was ready to be a HC. Hmmm.. but all you want to compare is postseason? Some of it has to do with the conference you were in at that particular time. Mack was pretty much a midmajor until their last year when they went Big East but a watered down Big East without Syracuse, Pitt and U of L. Connecticut on probation and influx of mid-major teams. Mack is a good coach but so is Mick. I’m glad Mack is our coach but I’m not going to discredit Cronin to make it seem that Mack is so much better. The story ain’t finished yet.

I didn't only compare the post season. In 7 less seasons Mack has won his conference regular season 3 times just as Cronin has. They have nearly identical winning percentages. The tiebreaker imo would be the fact that Mack has more tourney success in less seasons.

Why is it a knock on Mack that Cronin that someone took a chance on Cronin 1st? He has been coaching for a decade so its been shown that whoever overlooked him before was wrong. Cronin had the advantage that he worked for Pitino and Pitino often pushed for his assistants to get HC jobs.

Both Xavier and Cinci are in low high major conferences. The BE may be watered down but it has won 2 of the last 3 titles. The Aac isn't any better. Uconn is in the Aac btw.

Like it or not, when judging cbb coaches its skewed toward how they do in the tourney. Its not the only thing that matters but a coach who wins in the regular season and chokes in the tourney is going to get fired before one that loses regular season games and wins in the ncaa tournament.

You were very anti-Mack when he was hired, which is fine but use stats atleast if you are going to criticize him. Cronin isn't a bad coach by an means but he isn't on the level of Mack. Mack is either as good as or better in pretty much ever measure of a coach.

 

[nccardfan]

The AAC isn’t any better? Last I look the AAC still has one team in the dance and we probably should be talking about another. Last I looked Xavier choked in the big dance right before we hired him. For the record I wasn’t anti-Mack. I didn’t like the process or lack of process when there wasn’t a formal job search conducted and we picked a guy who wanted to be here (I think there would have others but we will never know I guess). And before you answer with Kenny Payne and Tom crean, don’t waste your time.

 

[gocards1987]

The AAC isn’t any better? Last I look the AAC still has one team in the dance and we probably should be talking about another. Last I looked Xavier choked in the big dance right before we hired him. For the record I wasn’t anti-Mack. I didn’t like the process or lack of process when there wasn’t a formal job search conducted and we picked a guy who wanted to be here (I think there would have others but we will never know I guess). And before you answer with Kenny Payne and Tom crean, don’t waste your time.

Why only look at last year when it comes to Xavier? We have Mack's entire body of work to look at. Xavier got beat by FSU who then went on to the elite 8. It happens from time to time. I personally didn't care about a formal job search when Mack was the clear favorite imo. I'd never answer that Crean and Payne counted because I don't think their names should have even been mentioned. Most of those who were criticizing Mack back then were doing so because of a lack of a resume but then throwing out names of alternatives who had done even less. The other side was trying to wait on NBA coaches in hopes that they'd get fired which neither did.

The Aac has not been better than since the conferences split. You are focusing on this season when Mack isn't even in the conference any more. The aac did better this year but the big east was better last year, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that. The BE usually gets more teams in the tourney than the aac. Since the split in 2014 and last year the aac is 12-12 and the big east is 31-26. They have a better winning percentage and way more wins than the aac. The aac's best year was 2014 which is a bit of a gift because that wasn't even the current make up of the conference.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

Exactly both have been in D1 basketball for a decade.

Wrong!
Mick was hired as HC at Murray State in 2003.
Chris was hired as HC at Xavier in 2009.

Please move the goal posts to their next position.

 

[nccardfan]

Why only look at last year when it comes to Xavier? We have Mack's entire body of work to look at. Xavier got beat by FSU who then went on to the elite 8. It happens from time to time. I personally didn't care about a formal job search when Mack was the clear favorite imo. I'd never answer that Crean and Payne counted because I don't think their names should have even been mentioned. Most of those who were criticizing Mack back then were doing so because of a lack of a resume but then throwing out names of alternatives who had done even less. The other side was trying to wait on NBA coaches in hopes that they'd get fired which neither did.

The Aac has not been better than since the conferences split. You are focusing on this season when Mack isn't even in the conference any more. The aac did better this year but the big east was better last year, the year before that, the year before that, and the year before that. The BE usually gets more teams in the tourney than the aac. Since the split in 2014 and last year the aac is 12-12 and the big east is 31-26. They have a better winning percentage and way more wins than the aac. The aac's best year was 2014 which is a bit of a gift because that wasn't even the current make up of the conference.

When you say BE don’t you mean Villanova? You brought up the argument that the AAC is garbage. I gave you proof it wasn’t. Let’s we how the trend continues. And wow 54% is not much better than 50%.

 

[nccardfan]

Wrong!
Mick was hired as HC at Murray State in 2003.
Chris was hired as HC at Xavier in 2009.

Please move the goal posts to their next position.

Huh? Mack was made an asst at Xavier in 1999. Last time I looked Xavier was D1 basketball. You made the point. Mack is 2 years older but Mick was made a HC 6 years sooner.

 

[gocards1987]

When you say BE don’t you mean Villanova? You brought up the argument that the AAC is garbage. I gave you proof it wasn’t. Let’s we how the trend continues. And wow 54% is not much better than 50%.

When did i say the aac is terrible. I said that they were both low high major conferences with the be being better. They get more teams in and have a better record. If you take out nova then you take out uconn’s one run in 2014 and our 2 wins, the aac becomes 4-11.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

Huh? Mack was made an asst at Xavier in 1999. Last time I looked Xavier was D1 basketball. You made the point. Mack is 2 years older but Mick was made a HC 6 years sooner.

You said in the earlier post that both had been in D-1 for a decade and pointed out the disparity in their number of wins. I read that to mean both had been HC for ten years. I pointed out that Mick had been a HC for 6 years longer, affecting the disparity in their record you referred to.

As far as their progression in the coaching ranks, Mick was a gym rat and coach's son who was a HS asst. while an undergrad at UC. Quickly, promoted at UC, then to UofL. Some may consider his rise in the profession to be meteoric, but his dad was a HS legend and he worked for two likely HOF coaches in Huggs and RP. Coaching is in his DNA. IDK if he has a life outside of BB. Mick inherited a dumpster fire at UC.

CCM took a slower route, following Skip Prosser and Dino from X to Wake Forest. Assistant yes, but an assistant in the ACC compared to one in CUSA. He was assistant to Dino after Skip's untimely death and came back to assist Sean Miller at X when Dino was fired at Wake Forest.

Look at the coaches they've worked for. Huggins, RP, Prosser and Miller are impressive names to have on your resume.

As far as being a 1 Seed and blowing a lead to FSU, yes it happened. But how did it happen? X lost their 6th man ( Naji Marshall) early in the game due to injury. Team leader (and pain in the butt) was limited by getting a technical tacked on to a personal foul for number four. Foul number five was on a horrible block/charge. The lead was "blown" by being shorthanded against a VG FSU team. OTOH we had all hands on deck when we blew a lead versus FSU. X had a great team last year, winning the BE, beating the National Champions and earning a 1 Seed. Unfortunately, the only thing outsiders remember was that they "blew" a lead to FSU.

Word around Cincy is that UC is not wanting to up Mick's pay and may lose him. This was referenced in an article by Mike DeCourcy in The Sporting News. Personally, I hope he leaves and is a major success wherever he lands. Screw UC!

 

[nccardfan]

When did i say the aac is terrible. I said that they were both low high major conferences with the be being better. They get more teams in and have a better record. If you take out nova then you take out uconn’s one run in 2014 and our 2 wins, the aac becomes 4-11.

What I’m saying is the BE that you refer to is not the BE today and the AAC put more quality teams in the NCAAT this year.

 

[gocards1987]

What I’m saying is the BE that you refer to is not the BE today and the AAC put more quality teams in the NCAAT this year.

The BE today is the same as it was in 2014. That was the year that the bball and fball schools basically split and the aac was created. I started my numbers from that point since the be has been the same 10 teams that are there today.

The aac had a better year this season. Its the 2nd time in 6 years that it has happened. If you are using it to compare Cronin and Mack its pointless since Mack isn't even in the BE anymore. Maybe this year signals a new aac and the downfall of the BE but more than likely its just a down season for the BE. They will continue to be similar conferences with the BE being a little better.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what signals the conferences being completely different conferences than they were over the last 6 seasons. The conference membership has stayed the same so other than supporting an argument why should the last 5 seasons be discounted compared to this one?

 

[nccardfan]

The BE today is the same as it was in 2014. That was the year that the bball and fball schools basically split and the aac was created. I started my numbers from that point since the be has been the same 10 teams that are there today.

The aac had a better year this season. Its the 2nd time in 6 years that it has happened. If you are using it to compare Cronin and Mack its pointless since Mack isn't even in the BE anymore. Maybe this year signals a new aac and the downfall of the BE but more than likely its just a down season for the BE. They will continue to be similar conferences with the BE being a little better.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what signals the conferences being completely different conferences than they were over the last 6 seasons. The conference membership has stayed the same so other than supporting an argument why should the last 5 seasons be discounted compared to this one?

Yes, you’re are missing something, that much you got right.

 

[gocards1987]

Yes, you’re are missing something, that much you got right.

Instead of trying to throw out insults how about you tell me what I'm missing. Is it because you know that your premise is completely wrong and too stupid to really defend?

 

[nccardfan]

Instead of trying to throw out insults how about you tell me what I'm missing. Is it because you know that your premise is completely wrong and too stupid to really defend?

Ok I’ll spell it out for you since you are too stupid to understand, Mr Insult. The BE is not the BE that U of L and the Cuse were a part of. Since they left it’s primarily been Villanova conference including dominance over Xavier with Mack. The one year Xavier won the watered down BE, they choked as a 1 seed.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

Ok I’ll spell it out for you since you are too stupid to understand, Mr Insult. The BE is not the BE that U of L and the Cuse were a part of. Since they left it’s primarily been Villanova conference including dominance over Xavier with Mack. The one year Xavier won the watered down BE, they choked as a 1 seed.

Watered down so far that it included the National Champion, Villanova. I am starting to think you may have an anti-Catholic bias. Or be a Missouri Valley Conference diehard.

 

[nccardfan]

Watered down so far that it included the National Champion, Villanova. I am starting to think you may have an anti-Catholic bias. Or be a Missouri Valley Conference diehard.

So how does that translate into Mack being a great coach? Because Xavier was in the same conference? Pretty sure Nova owned Xavier.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I didn't realize Mick was doing so poorly in the post-season. 1 Sweet 16? How does he keep his job? The standards at UC are incredibly low. They must just be happy if they pop into the Top 25 once in a while and get a bid.

 

[BooneCo_Card]

So how does that translate into Mack being a great coach? Because Xavier was in the same conference? Pretty sure Nova owned Xavier.

With 2 NCs in their pocket, they pretty much owned the BE, X included. I've never said CCM was a great coach. I have often said he was a great HIRE and a very good coach, better than Mick. I've seen great coaches over the years and use the term sparingly. Certainly not on a coach with just a 10 year track record.

 

[gocards1987]

Ok I’ll spell it out for you since you are too stupid to understand, Mr Insult. The BE is not the BE that U of L and the Cuse were a part of. Since they left it’s primarily been Villanova conference including dominance over Xavier with Mack. The one year Xavier won the watered down BE, they choked as a 1 seed.

I know that the BE now isnt what it was before. That is why the years i used where the ones after the be and acc split. Those were the watered down years you keep talking about.

Now why are you insulting Mack? He team lost earlier than expected, it happens. Cronin does it all the time. Mack still owns him head to head and is better or as good as Cronin in any measure you want to choose. I’m not sure why a “fan” is trying to down our coach to defend another but ok.

 

[nccardfan]

I know that the BE now isnt what it was before. That is why the years i used where the ones after the be and acc split. Those were the watered down years you keep talking about.

Now why are you insulting Mack? He team lost earlier than expected, it happens. Cronin does it all the time. Mack still owns him head to head and is better or as good as Cronin in any measure you want to choose. I’m not sure why a “fan” is trying to down our coach to defend another but ok.

I am a fan but you really hit the nail on the head. Reality is you and several others think that by dissing Mick you make Mack so much better. My point is there’s not as much separation based on their careers up to now. I’m hoping that it changes and Mack wins multiple NCs. I haven’t seen a glimmer of greatness yet.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

My point is there’s not as much separation based on their careers up to now.

Mack is 12-9 in the NCAAs in 10 years. One E8. Three SS. So 40% of the time this guy is making the second weekend.
Mick is 6-11 in the NCAAs in 15 years. One SS. That's 7% of the time this guy is making the second weekend. A fair analysis could consider the one SS an anomaly for the guy.

Mack has twice as many NCAA tournament wins in 5 less years. Jesus.

In the spirit of consistency Mick kicked in a 1st Rd loss in the CBI.

Mick's most recent flame out happened in his back yard.

Your point is an epic fail. The separation is quite wide at this time, not that it matters.

Thread is about a mediocre at best coach's opinions on grad transfers. You tried to turn it into a Mack beat down but have continued to punch yourself in the balls. I credit Mick for being an honest guy. If a reporter asked him about his post season failures he'd own it.

 

[nccardfan]

Mack is 12-9 in the NCAAs in 10 years. One E8. Three SS. So 40% of the time this guy is making the second weekend.
Mick is 6-11 in the NCAAs in 15 years. One SS. That's 7% of the time this guy is making the second weekend. A fair analysis could consider the one SS an anomaly for the guy.

Mack has twice as many NCAA tournament wins in 5 less years. Jesus.

In the spirit of consistency Mick kicked in a 1st Rd loss in the CBI.

Mick's most recent flame out happened in his back yard.

Your point is an epic fail. The separation is quite wide at this time, not that it matters.

Thread is about a mediocre at best coach's opinions on grad transfers. You tried to turn it into a Mack beat down but have continued to punch yourself in the balls. I credit Mick for being an honest guy. If a reporter asked him about his post season failures he'd own it.

Thank you for validating my point. And for taking an interest in my balls! And by the way before there was even a thing called grad transfers, what about the ability to coach up or develop players. Seems like all we talk about is going out and looking for grad transfers.