I'm fine with people not being head over heels about Chris Mack, to each their own. But I would at least like to hear their opinion on who UL should have gotten instead.
Mack is the extreme favorite...
- Thread starter HRTheCard
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Zipp’s top 3 are 3 Jurich wouldn’t even have gotten. He just wants to say those are the 3 because he knows that wouldve never happened. Therefore, he can feel better and be negative towards Tyra for not trying to get any of the 3 (Donovan, Bennett, Wright).
Tyra didn't try likely because he didn't wanna fail. Fear of failure didn't stop his predecessor; of course, he hardly knew what that felt like.
(Unlike some posters here, though, Jurich knew which arena location he preferred...)
So, if he would have went after Donovan, Bennett and Wright and got shot down that would have been better than targeting the coach you wanted and getting him?
Zipp, you're obviously a big contributor to this board but if your idea of a homerun hire was Billy D, Jay Wright and Tony Bennett then you're just looking for excuses to not be satisfied.
I actually do think Louisville probably could have lured Tony Bennett away from UVA but I'm actually glad they didn't try but there was no chance at getting Jay Wright and aside from the fact that Billy D is coaching a playoff team in the NBA there's the fact that he's way, way too connected to Rick Pitino. Hiring Billy D would be the next closest thing to hiring Richard Pitino and there was no way the administration was going to allow ANY connection to Rick after everything thats happened.
I think Chris Mack would be viewed as a great hire at Duke, UNC, UK, or any elite program right now.
I assume the FBI investigation will go on for another 1-2 years, and then the NCAA will take another 1-2 years after that. Therefore, my expectation is the next 4 years to get continuously worse as recruiting will be impossible. It is going to get rough for Coach Mack.
Sorry but me thinks this is another effort to lower the bar for Mack so that if he does do anything of consequence, he will be written down as the 2nd best hire ever at U of L. All prospective hires knew what to expect and hopefully each had a plan in place to maintain the program at a relatively high level. If not then I can’t say overall this has been a homerun hire. Even Kevin Keatts has been able to lure Killya Jones, not that I would want him. Just saying if Keatts can bring in a kid at NC State shouldn’t Mack be able to do the same? Great if not the best facilities, best conference in the country...
NC State isn't the face of this FBI scandal and hasn't been the laughing stock of the NCAA for the last 3 years. Plus Killeya-Jones was from NC.
There's a difference between trying to lower the bar and understanding the obstacles. You can't compare Chris Mack's first 3-4 years to anyone elses. This is its own case due to the circumstances of the previous administration. The next 3-4 years will probably be "lets just make the tournament" years. I feel like there's some fans on this board who forget everything going on surrounding the program, judge Mack however you want. But I think there are some posters on here who are looking for excuses to be mad and I don't understand why. I just want one person who isn't excited about Chris Mack to tell me who they would rather have.
Of course you start your conversation about NC State. That wasn’t my point. Not about Killya Jones either. If we understood the obstacles, why pay someone 4 million a year to just make the tournament? I think that does lower the bar for a lot of coaches who could do the same for a little less money.
So you would rather we hired a cheaper coach just to save some money?
Again, all I want from the Mack nay-sayers is a realistic name of who we should have went after.
You are free to think whatever you want, but I have no reason to "lower the bar" for Coach Mack or anyone else. I'm a diehard Louisville fan, who lives in Morgantown WV of all places - what possible motivation is there to "lower the bar"?
One point of view that I do completely understand is Zipp's contention that if the next few years are going to be miserable, guaranteed, then why not save a ton of money and keep Padgett. But the risk there is that the program is so beaten down after 4 years that you can't hire a good coach. We have Mack for 7 years.
We can go in circles forever on this, and we have. But I want to make clear that I am not "lowering the bar" just to make Mack look good. Condi Rice's commission just recommended a 5 year ban for offenders. The NCAA may or may not do that but as a repeat offender there is uncertainty to say the least and recruiting is going to be next to impossible. We are going to beg for 3 stars and any we get will likely come from Jefferson County. I also want to make clear that I hope I am so wrong and that Louisville is in a Final Four during the next 4 years.
I agree. We seem to be on the same page. If someone's idea of a "homerun" hire is just the best coach in the NBA (Stevens), an NBA coach who's like a son to Pitino (Billy D) a coach who's won 2 of the last 3 NCAA titles, (Wright) a coach who just became the 1st ever #1 seed to lose to a 16 and coaches the worst system in college basketball (Bennett) and a coach who's exclusively been a West Coast guy and has been at the same job since 1999 and only made 1 Final Four during those 19 years....then I don't know what to tell them.
I personally think Chris Mack was the absolute best hire UL could have hoped for and I would have thought that even without any of the NCAA stuff going on. I think Chris Mack has the chance to be the next "guy" in college basketball.
This has no relevance whatsoever, just interesting to me. Know who the hottest college basketball coach was for 2017 and 2018, respectfully? Richard Pitino followed by Chris Mack. Where is Richard now? On the hot seat or maybe already in the fire in Minnesota. Does it make him less of a coach than Mack? I hardly think so. No, I am not advocating for Richard, my point is not whether you’re a “good” or “nice” guy, it’s whether or not you can win games, a lot of them.
If you don't shoot for the moon, you never get there. Tyra never got in the rocket ship.
And those other programs would NOT see Mack as a great hire unless he's successful there. That is NOT what determines a "great hire"...
We've already addressed your 2nd question.
And I have a question related to your first... I'd like to know why, if it's going to take 3-4 years to climb out of a hole, we needed to spend $12-16 million on a basketball coach while waiting? And why was it so urgent to hire one in March? Allegedly, it was recruiting related, and how did that turn out for us?
Anyone have some good answers?...
Again, you're worried about Tyra doing his job or being able to. That's not a fan's prerogative. Are you worried about him raising money or retaining good coaches? Are you expecting him to accomplish those things, or are you making major concessions in those areas as well?
If you are making concessions--without recognizing it--you're allowing your entire athletic department to be dummied down considerably. That's not what a fan should be doing. That's not what anyone should be doing. I'm confident as hell that the ACC doesn't wanna hear that garbage.
Your standards shouldn't change one iota from where they were with Jurich. ONLY your confidence that we will reach those standards should be changing. You should shoot to be the best at everything, and be suspicious as hell that the people in charge now will get you there...
I see absolutely no point in hiring a smaller named coach that either has little to no experience or is past his prime just to wade the waters for 3-4 years and be replaced once we're through the worst of it. I would rather go for the best candidate we can get and have him in place for the long haul, building the brand, building relationships and becoming a fixture at high schools and AAU tournaments.
Why keep David Padgett or hire Scott Davenport only to replace them in 3-4 years?
I mean UL went out and hired arguably the hottest name on the market during an NCAA investigation. I don't know what more Tyra could have done to knock this out of the park. I don't want Bennett or Few, I don't want Billy D only because I don't want ANY Pitino connections.
I'm not making any concessions. I would have been extremely happy with Chris Mack had Rick retired and Tom brought him here this year.
I think Chris Mack was an absolute homerun, A+, two thumbs up no matter how you want to measure it, successful hire. I think its an insanely good hire to make considering the turdstorm surrounding the program.
You're just a Mack fan, and maybe that's the debate we should be having. It's clouding your judgment on everything else in the big picture. Basketball is just one item on U of L's long list of problems...
No one could’ve done better. Jurich MIGHT have gotten Wright if he fired Porcini after the 2015 scandal when he HADNT won 2 titles, but now? Absolutely no chance. Zipp is just a stubborn old man who put Jurich above UofL and he can’t get over it. He set the bar way too high and he knows it. He knows Donovan, Bennett, and Wright were no chance no matter who’s in charge. He just wants to be mad and say Tyra is doing a bad job and Mack wasn’t a homerun hire. I don’t pay attention to him anymore. He’s a broken record when it comes to this stuff.
Are you getting your info here from the same sources as you do your arena info? Or are you just making everything up?
You criticize Mack because of the money but if the AD thinks he is the guy why are we paying someone else 12-16 mil who we don't really want? That's a waste of money in my opinion. Any coach who is hired is going to have their success negatively impacted because of whats happened with us. I think a worse cheaper coach would get worse results though and in 3-4 years we'd be in worse shape than now before a rebuild. I don't also don't get the need to wait 3 months if you as AD think that Mack is the guy. It looks like waiting would have gotten us the same result. Bennett was available, Wright would have stayed a Nova, and Donovan would stayed in OKC.
We did need the hire for recruiting purposes but it wasn't just for next year. Even with hiring a coach in March recruiting for next season was on short notice and the results weren't going to be great. It also meant that we were going to be able to recruit in the early recruiting periods though which does seem like we are getting interested recruits.
More importantly Nc st didn't just hire a new coach. Keatts has been there for a few seasons and already is somewhat established.
Your standards for the next couple of seasons can change though. I'd agree that usually simply making the tournament wouldn't be considered a success but next year with all that happened it is. To me it would be like criticizing Strong for going 7-6 in his first season because Petrino won a BCS bowl in his last. The bar for success in those 2 seasons was completely different because Petrino was rolling after a few years and Strong was trying to rebuild a roster devoid of talent. Where you jumping on him for not winning the conference with a lot of guys who we beat out low level D1 schools for? The same thing applies now. We are going to have some troubles because of the reality of what we are facing.
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I'm not sure I would have advocated spending $12-16 million on ANY coach for the time being. If you guys are right, what good is it doing spending that money? A few extra wins a year and an NIT bid? Is that money well spent?
And Mack's gonna endure some slings and arrows over the next few years if you're right. Why put your new coach who's supposedly here for the long haul through that? He might get run outta Dodge before he gets a good chance to perform.
Once the FBI/NCAA smoke clears, couldn't you also go out and recruit a coach and players more easily? A couple years out--if you're right--could have been the perfect time to bring in Mack.
Your thirst for Mack could have been exactly the wrong thing to try to satisfy in the short run. Doesn't much matter to me, I'm rolling with whatever happens. But if your guy doesn't make the NCAA next year, I'm not gonna be siding with fans who couldn't wait to act and have to lower Mack's bar to save face. Not my style and not my concern...
I've already said that my bar for a successful season is making the tournament. That wouldn't normally be the case for us that just making the tournament is an accomplishment. I'd be disappointed in the coaching job if we were on the wrong side of the bubble but I also wouldn't be ready to jump ship. Unless next season is a disaster then being ready to jump off the Mack train is premature.
Spiraling even more over the next few years with some crap coach would make any sanctions we get worse. It would make any rebuild take longer. Whether or not some fans turn on him he has a 7 year contract. We will have to give him time to rebuild whether we like it or not (thats my only concern about the contract). If we are rolling in 7 years it won't matter if people where criticizing him in the early years anyhow.
If we are all being honest, Zipp you know that you aren't just neutral in this. You hate Tyra and by association Mack. You are hoping he fails to prove Tyra and the new admin wrong. Its influencing your opinions on this subject.
I agreed with you 100% in the first paragraph and moved to 100% disagree in the last. Quite an accomplishment!
As long as the bar is the same--in this case, a tourney bid next year--we won't have much debate on how next season goes for Mack. But you don't want your fans turning on your coach prematurely, and you acknowledge that's likely to happen for some fans next season. I don't understand the logic in making a decision that results in that. Fan support in the end is what brings these guys down.
I'm completely agnostic on Mack as far as his success. I don't think he's a bad guy just because of his association with Tyra. And it doesn't benefit anyone if he fails in a key sport like basketball. Tyra's a different animal; he's one step closer and further back in time with respect to the Board of Traitors. I'm highly suspicious of his motives and abilities. But like Mack, he'll be judged by what he does. You can have success in athletics with a boob in the AD's job--there are many examples out there. It won't offend me if that turns out to be what happens at U of L. That doesn't make me a Tyra hater. As I've said to others, I'm for people getting what they deserve, good or bad...
People who turn on Mack that quickly will be back just as soon as he starts winning. It won't matter in the long run. Unless Mack decides he can't take some heat from the fans he has nearly 7 years to win people over. If he does decide that he can't handle some heat for 4 mil a year he wasn't the hire we thought he was anyhow.
Good gosh, I hope it doesn’t take 7 years to find out if he’s a good coach or not.
Its not going to take 7 years. I know this is a message board and everything seems to be spoken in extremes (not saying you're doing this) but fans just have to be aware of the circumstances and take that into consideration when grading Mack.
If we push aside the FBI garbage (due to size and scope) then we're still looking at 2-3 years of solid rebuilding here. UL should be making strides in those 2-3 years though. Fighting for a tournament birth this year, improving on the recruiting trail, developing solid players, getting a few kids drafted....its small, incremental steps and we'll know within the first 2-3 years if Mack is the right choice for the job.
