Kenny Payne's Recruiting

[shadow force]

From reading the boards, it seems the main draw of Kenny Payne is his perceived high level recruiting ability.

If it ends up being Payne, what exactly are your expectations for his recruiting?

Do you think he will bring in multiple McDonald's All Americans, 5 stars, or fringe 5 star guys, etc?

Do you expect a ton of one and done revolving personnel like at uk or Duke? Or just 1-2 blue chippers mixed in with multi year players? Or something else?

 

[KozmasAgain]

Once again my concern is coaching ability, if recruiting is what everybody is expecting out of him then hire him as a recruiter. He currently makes 900,000 a year in the pros pay him 1.5 to be recruiter. It would seem like more because the cost of living in Louisville is cheaper than NY.
In regards to his recruiting ability I am not sure. World Wide Wes was the main figure in their recruiting, is WWW going to funnel players to KP ? I would hate to see us go to the one & done system sUcK has, I don’t know if I would be interested watching them.

 

[Thecycle27]

Hard to say. Recruiting is all about connections which he has in both college and NBA. The transfer portal is going to be a hell of a resource if you know exactly what your team needs.

Safe to say he would land elite bigs. Too good of a reputation on that front.

 

[nccardfan]

Once again my concern is coaching ability, if recruiting is what everybody is expecting out of him then hire him as a recruiter. He currently makes 900,000 a year in the pros pay him 1.5 to be recruiter. It would seem like more because the cost of living in Louisville is cheaper than NY.
In regards to his recruiting ability I am not sure. World Wide Wes was the main figure in their recruiting, is WWW going to funnel players to KP ? I would hate to see us go to the one & done system sUcK has, I don’t know if I would be interested watching them.

UK has gone away from the one and done only. Yeah they have FR coming in but they have a few veteran players and of course grad transfers. Where would they be without Oscar?

 

[CardX]

His recruiting is his only appeal. He played here. Great! He was maybe the 4th best player on the team. If he hadn't played here, he wouldn't be on the radar at all.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The bigger question I have is what do we see this sport turning into are fans gonna be able to keep interest in it?

The 3-4 yr player is gonna be a thing of the past in a lotta instances with the portal no matter who is the HC here.

We couldn't even keep Slaz, a likable player that wanted to move on. Every player is gonna have their reasons not singling him out or saying he is a bad guy. But as a fan that's the kinda player we are used to watching grow.

Then you put NIL into this and there is just so much $ moving around. What would be fun to look at is actually pinning a thread where we list the guys we think will be the top 5 coaches in 5 years from now and see if any of us were close to being right.

Do we have any statements from KP that he wants this job? It would just be hilarious if he isn't interested after all the hoopla surrounding his name. This turned into Save Ferris overnight.

I think if he had WWW helping him he'd probably bring in players if he is the next HC. The current class of players is already locked up pretty much only a couple guys left, so we'd have to seriously wait another year to know if he can recruit. I'm not saying he can or can't. I mean who knows. Would be hilarious if he can't recruit but was a great x&o guy. That would probably confuse the room and maybe we'd all just start doing acid or something.

 

[Thecycle27]

His recruiting is his only appeal. He played here. Great! He was maybe the 4th best player on the team. If he hadn't played here, he wouldn't be on the radar at all.

He has been recognized by respected people in his industry as someone that develops players. That is appealing after watching no player development. His history as a player plus support from former players and boosters is appealing.

I get the concern of no coaching experience but tell me how others have been able to do it successfully. Somehow you know know Payne will fail.

I really don’t care who they get but digging in your heals on something we all know little about seems silly.

As someone said we don’t know if Payne is even interested. That’s how little we actually know.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I am not sure having NBA connections would help recruiting because you need connections before they reach the NBA. Being connected to WWW would obviously help sUcK has proved that. The most important connections would be with AAU coaches, Nike, Addidas and other sponsors. Josh Pastner coach of Ga Tech has all that but it hasn’t done him much good.

 

[bigloucards]

UK has gone away from the one and done only. Yeah they have FR coming in but they have a few veteran players and of course grad transfers. Where would they be without Oscar?

I don’t think that it’s a case of them going away from one & done player, but their “veterans” are players that have not lived up to their rankings. Duke has now gone in the same direction and a lot of the one & done talent has gone there as well. I also think quite a few of the one &done players realized that they don’t need to go to a big school to be drafted highly!
Without Oscar UK wouldnt be near as good and definitely not top 5, but more of a top 15-20!

 

[Big_Tasty_Muffin]

I don't think he is a "slam dunk" recruiter as everyone else thinks he is. Not saying he will be terrible, but look at which assistant is credited for which players over the years...

Justus: BJ Boston, Devin Askew, Immanuel Quickley, Keldon Johnson, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and Bam Adebayo.

Barbee: Terrence Clarke, Tyrese Maxey, Keion Brooks, and Nick Richards.

I think the new coach has to be well versed in the transfer portal, that's where today's game is going. Look at most of UK's current roster....Grady, Oscar, Toppin, Wheeler, Mintz....they where all transfers.

 

[CardX]

He has been recognized by respected people in his industry as someone that develops players. That is appealing after watching no player development. His history as a player plus support from former players and boosters is appealing.

I get the concern of no coaching experience but tell me how others have been able to do it successfully. Somehow you know know Payne will fail.

I really don’t care who they get but digging in your heals on something we all know little about seems silly.

As someone said we don’t know if Payne is even interested. That’s how little we actually know.

What the program has been through, what the near future holds, the next hire needs to be a dynamic one. There are no guarantees, this we know. I don't think taking a risk on an uproven is the way to go, at this point. I'm not talking just X's and O's, either. I'm talking leading a program, navigating through soon to be sanctions, winning over the fans, being the face of Louisville basketball. Not sure KP is that guy. He doesn't come across as that guy. If he's hired, I wish nothing more than to be proven wrong.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What the program has been through, what the near future holds, the next hire needs to be a dynamic one. There are no guarantees, this we know. I don't think taking a risk on an uproven is the way to go, at this point. I'm not talking just X's and O's, either. I'm talking leading a program, navigating through soon to be sanctions, winning over the fans, being the face of Louisville basketball. Not sure KP is that guy. He doesn't come across as that guy. If he's hired, I wish nothing more than to be proven wrong.

Who is your top 3 X?

 

[Thecycle27]

What the program has been through, what the near future holds, the next hire needs to be a dynamic one. There are no guarantees, this we know. I don't think taking a risk on an uproven is the way to go, at this point. I'm not talking just X's and O's, either. I'm talking leading a program, navigating through soon to be sanctions, winning over the fans, being the face of Louisville basketball. Not sure KP is that guy. He doesn't come across as that guy. If he's hired, I wish nothing more than to be proven wrong.

We all agree the job is a monster and unless they pull a miracle we are getting someone with flaws.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I think. we're all guilty of jumping the gun but this is a good topic don't get me wrong. I just like covering multiple angles.

Has anybody considered the possibility that KP gets offered an NBA job and takes it?

So much can and will happen between now and the summer.

 

[shadow force]

I think. we're all guilty of jumping the gun but this is a good topic don't get me wrong. I just like covering multiple angles.

Has anybody considered the possibility that KP gets offered an NBA job and takes it?

So much can and will happen between now and the summer.

I understand what you're saying. I realize it may very well not be Payne or even anyone else we've been discussing.

Just trying to gauge people's expectations of Paynes recruiting if he ends up being the guy since that seems to be one of his main selling points according to his supporters.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I understand what you're saying. I realize it may very well not be Payne or even anyone else we've been discussing.

Just trying to gauge people's expectations of Paynes recruiting if he ends up being the guy since that seems to be one of his main selling points according to his supporters.

Oh absolutely and I apologize right now if my post seemed crappy.

I wasn't intending to derail the thread.

And to go back on topic my guess is you would see an intense physical man to man D but not sure what the O would look like.

 

[KozmasAgain]

Do you seriously think an NBA team would hire KP as a head coach without ever being a head coach?

 

[EKYCard643]

Nobody is expecting Payne to turn Louisville into "one and done U"....But Travis Graf has said on here multiple times that his recruiting ability and connections are not solely tied to Nike and he's one of the best in the biz with or without them.

I think its reasonable to think KP could bring in 1 or 2 top 25 players in each class. He can certainly appeal to the bigs in each class since he has a long list of big men that he's developed and put in the NBA. You can't win without talent and KP could no doubt help with our years long drought of having legit talent at Louisville.

If KPs smart - the best way to build his team is to plan on getting a transfer every year, recruit 2 guys with legit NBA skills that can develop in 1-2 years before leaving and then just recruit talent that needs 3-4 years to develop. We have no way of knowing what sort of system he will use on offense or defense but I would think he would primarily focus on being an aggressive man to man defense and adapt the offense to the roster every year.

 

[EKYCard643]

What the program has been through, what the near future holds, the next hire needs to be a dynamic one. There are no guarantees, this we know. I don't think taking a risk on an uproven is the way to go, at this point. I'm not talking just X's and O's, either. I'm talking leading a program, navigating through soon to be sanctions, winning over the fans, being the face of Louisville basketball. Not sure KP is that guy. He doesn't come across as that guy. If he's hired, I wish nothing more than to be proven wrong.

I think now is exactly the time to take a risk on someone like KP. Louisville is in the midst of the NCAA issues...we need a bold hire. We simply are not going to go out and pull a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright, Billy Donovan, Scott Drew, Tony Bennett, Musselman, Oats, Pearl, Cronin type coach - it ain't happening. So I would argue we need a bold "new era" type of hire. One that will embrace NIL, one that will have massive booster support and one that will potentially take Louisville to new heights. He might fail...but he might not too. If he fails, so be it. We can shut down the persistent drive to give KP the job thats been going on in Louisville for years and we move on to the next guy and by then we'll be past all the mess with the NCAA.

I really think UofL is a top 10 job - but its not a top 10 job right now due to no AD, no President and the current state of finances. So...if we can't get any of those elite guys I named and KP isn't your choice you're looking at guys like Steve Forbes, Brad Underwood, Ed Cooley, Kevin Willard, etc. Does anybody on this board really want to go into next season with ANY of those guys as our head coach? Doubtful.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Do you seriously think an NBA team would hire KP as a head coach without ever being a head coach?

It happens a lot.

Brooklyn just did it with Nash. Portland just did it with Billups. Boston just did it with Udoka.

Look at all the examples in the link below.

This is not something I personally track because I dunno, I just don't think it's that big of a deal really. Don't get me wrong I hear the opinions it's not like I'm throwing other people's opinions into the garbage. I just like to discuss all angles of things.

Stephen A. Smith Somehow Forgot That 9 Black Former Players Were Given NBA Head Coaching Jobs With No Experience

Contrary to what Stephen A. Smith said following the hiring of Steve Nash, multiple Black former players with no coaching experience have gotten head coaching jobs in the NBA.

www.sportscasting.com

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I think now is exactly the time to take a risk on someone like KP. Louisville is in the midst of the NCAA issues...we need a bold hire. We simply are not going to go out and pull a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright, Billy Donovan, Scott Drew, Tony Bennett, Musselman, Oats, Pearl, Cronin type coach - it ain't happening. So I would argue we need a bold "new era" type of hire. One that will embrace NIL, one that will have massive booster support and one that will potentially take Louisville to new heights. He might fail...but he might not too. If he fails, so be it. We can shut down the persistent drive to give KP the job thats been going on in Louisville for years and we move on to the next guy and by then we'll be past all the mess with the NCAA.

I really think UofL is a top 10 job - but its not a top 10 job right now due to no AD, no President and the current state of finances. So...if we can't get any of those elite guys I named and KP isn't your choice you're looking at guys like Steve Forbes, Brad Underwood, Ed Cooley, Kevin Willard, etc. Does anybody on this board really want to go into next season with ANY of those guys as our head coach? Doubtful.

I think a lot of it boils down to "comfort zone", and uncertainty as to who is gonna want the job. That's what the firm is allegedly for, to identify people that make sense that would want the job, though some may think it's for other reasons.

Either way I think a lot of people are kind of neutral on it all. For sure some are ready for KP or simply do not want him. I think majority might just be ambivalent.

If you find out Scott Drew or another championship level HC wants it, you obviously go there. But as you say, it doesn't feel like that's what's in play here. As you point out, Steve Forbes. Yikes. That guy has 0 NCAAT wins on his resume. If that is where the search is taking us then your POV gains plenty of steam.

A lot can and will happen between now and the Final Four. Feels like this should be more fun than it is?

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Do you seriously think an NBA team would hire KP as a head coach without ever being a head coach?

Steve Kerr?

 

[ShortCreek]

What the program has been through, what the near future holds, the next hire needs to be a dynamic one. There are no guarantees, this we know. I don't think taking a risk on an uproven is the way to go, at this point. I'm not talking just X's and O's, either. I'm talking leading a program, navigating through soon to be sanctions, winning over the fans, being the face of Louisville basketball. Not sure KP is that guy. He doesn't come across as that guy. If he's hired, I wish nothing more than to be proven wrong.

KP is far from “dynamic” at least publicly. He’s more of a humble “aw shucks” kind of guy. As far as X’s & O’s? I never saw him with a dry erase board in his hand at with Oregon or Kentucky. His role on the staff up there? He played “good cop” after the snake oil salesman had chewed the player’s butt.

 

[KozmasAgain]

Once again I would like to raise the question that KP habeen an assistant coach for a long time. He is not a young guy who is just now getting started. Is his lack of head coaching jobs due to the fact that nobody ever saw him as qualified to be a head coach? Maybe but it could also be that he never took the initiative to apply for head coaching jobs.

Either way that would raise some concern for anybody looking to hire him. If it is because he never took the initiative then maybe he himself has self doubt. Maybe he felt more comfortable not being the head coach. This should be of some concern for a fan of any program.

I am not a sUcK fan so I don’t know anything about who KP recruited there. I don’t even know the name of any of their players that played since Calipari has been there outside of Anthony Davis. So can someone tell me who are all the great players that KP recruited to sUcK?

 

[shadow force]

Once again I would like to raise the question that KP habeen an assistant coach for a long time. He is not a young guy who is just now getting started. Is his lack of head coaching jobs due to the fact that nobody ever saw him as qualified to be a head coach? Maybe but it could also be that he never took the initiative to apply for head coaching jobs.

Either way that would raise some concern for anybody looking to hire him. If it is because he never took the initiative then maybe he himself has self doubt. Maybe he felt more comfortable not being the head coach. This should be of some concern for a fan of any program.

These are legit questions that should be asked if Payne is indeed interviewed for the job. I'm curious about what his answers are as well.

 

[nccardfan]

Once again I would like to raise the question that KP habeen an assistant coach for a long time. He is not a young guy who is just now getting started. Is his lack of head coaching jobs due to the fact that nobody ever saw him as qualified to be a head coach? Maybe but it could also be that he never took the initiative to apply for head coaching jobs.

Either way that would raise some concern for anybody looking to hire him. If it is because he never took the initiative then maybe he himself has self doubt. Maybe he felt more comfortable not being the head coach. This should be of some concern for a fan of any program.

I am not a sUcK fan so I don’t know anything about who KP recruited there. I don’t even know the name of any of their players that played since Calipari has been there outside of Anthony Davis. So can someone tell me who are all the great players that KP recruited to sUcK?

I do think he officially applied for the Mississippi St job in 2012 but didn’t get it. Don’t know any other circumstances beyond that.

 

[EKYCard643]

I think its absolutely foolish to think that Kenny Payne hasn't turned down multiple offers to be a head coach. KP is connected to Cal but unlike Cal you won't find anyone say an unkind word about him. He's well liked, well respected and was one of - if not THE top assistant coaches in college basketball for 15 years. So I doubt he's been blackballed by colleges looking for a head coach. He's been offered head coaching jobs that we haven't heard about - that's almost certainly a fact. Why he turned them down is anyone's guess.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Once again I would like to raise the question that KP habeen an assistant coach for a long time. He is not a young guy who is just now getting started. Is his lack of head coaching jobs due to the fact that nobody ever saw him as qualified to be a head coach? Maybe but it could also be that he never took the initiative to apply for head coaching jobs.

I completely see what you are saying here it is a good point. Legit point Koz. As EKYCard643 is saying, maybe KP will have a good answer for that? Or maybe he won't.

It's just a bit of a different point than asking if any coaches get hired without HC experience, because there is precedent for it. Questioning why it's been so long as an assistant with allegedly no offers.

Yeah, KP would hopefully be required to come up with a legitimate reason for why he thinks he hasn't had a job after being an assistant for so long. And he may not be able to do so convincingly during the interview.

Hopefully that's why there will be multiple interviews and the firm was hired to help us with that right?

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

KP is far from “dynamic” at least publicly. He’s more of a humble “aw shucks” kind of guy. As far as X’s & O’s? I never saw him with a dry erase board in his hand at with Oregon or Kentucky. His role on the staff up there? He played “good cop” after the snake oil salesman had chewed the player’s butt.

Who is on your list now a few weeks later, got a top 3?

 

[KozmasAgain]

I am pretty sure if KP was offered a head coaching job somewhere it would be pretty public, just because he might be a quiet person doesn’t mean the system is.

 

[ShortCreek]

Who is on your list now a few weeks later, got a top 3?

I’ll give you my top seven, modified from a few weeks back:

1) Drew
2) Musselman
3) C. Beard
4) D. Hurley
5) Enfield
6) Cooley
7) S. Smart

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Didn't Payne turn down the DePaul head coaching job last year?

 

[indaville]

All I know is they are running articles in Lexington posing the question “Are UK fans terrified of the prospect of Louisville hiring Kenny Payne”? The answer is yes if they’re asking they’re scared.

 

[zipp]

I probably should know this, but what/where does Payne have experience recruiting high schools kids besides his time at UK? Anywhere?

My question doesn't mean the UK experience should be discounted. But he was recruiting to the foremost OAD program under the guy who perfected the art. You can't know for sure how much of their recruiting success was due to Payne personally.

And the slappies are still reeling in pretty good players since he left...

 

[ShortCreek]

I probably should know this, but what/where does Payne have experience recruiting high schools kids besides his time at UK? Anywhere?

My question doesn't mean the UK experience should be discounted. But he was recruiting to the foremost OAD program under the guy who perfected the art. You can't know for sure how much of their recruiting success was due to Payne personally.

And the slappies are still reeling in pretty good players since he left...

Agree 100%

 

[Thecycle27]

We will have to see how it plays out. You are going to be able to pick any of the candidates apart. Just because their resume looks good doesn’t mean it will work here under these circumstances. Again Mack was thought to be the perfect fit by the majority. Hindsight is they should of looked at more people.

There are very few plug and plays. You get that then we will be happy. The rest are going to have issues people won’t like. Bad conference, not enough tournament wins, doesn’t recruit well enough, no head coaching experience, too old, and my favorite he is a angry little man.

With Kenny Payne it is all in his plan to turn it around. None of us will know the plan until after he is hired. At that point it will either make us feel good or worse but that doesn’t mean it will work or fail. It will prove some people right and some wrong.

 

[Knucklehank1]

I probably should know this, but what/where does Payne have experience recruiting high schools kids besides his time at UK? Anywhere?

My question doesn't mean the UK experience should be discounted. But he was recruiting to the foremost OAD program under the guy who perfected the art. You can't know for sure how much of their recruiting success was due to Payne personally.

And the slappies are still reeling in pretty good players since he left...

He coached for several years at Oregon before coming to UK.

 

[indaville]

I probably should know this, but what/where does Payne have experience recruiting high schools kids besides his time at UK? Anywhere?

My question doesn't mean the UK experience should be discounted. But he was recruiting to the foremost OAD program under the guy who perfected the art. You can't know for sure how much of their recruiting success was due to Payne personally.

And the slappies are still reeling in pretty good players since he left...

Oregon

 

[zipp]

Thanks for the Oregons.

If we're putting a lotta stock in what he proved at UK, that may or may not be well grounded. Payne certainly learned under the best as far as recruiting OAD and five-star kids, if that's what you want. What to say and do, what was within the rules at that time or not. How much of that he takes with him and succeeds on his own would be my question.

Whether his ability to coach complements that is my next question--really the one I consider more important. And I don't know how that one is fully answered looking at his resume.

In the end, Payne probably gets the job anyway, and I hope he's successful because we can ill afford another major coaching failure. Like most things, that will have to be proven to me...

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Is a head coach's ability to recruit much of a factor these days? It seems like assistants do the bulk of recruiting in the modern game.