Josh Nickelberry commits to Louisville!
- Thread starter HRTheCard
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No one knows.
What we do know is that there was once a Tom-Jay connection, maybe an understanding. And we know supposedly that the Wright and Jurich families are close. I don't know why that would have changed.
I also BELIEVE that if Jurich was still here, Jay Wright would have been contacted about the opening.
I also DON'T BELIEVE that Tyra even looked for Jay's phone number a few months ago...
So, just so we're clear....(keep in mind I have no doubt that if Jurich were here Wright would have at least been contacted because being contacted is meaningless) you're of the opinion that if Tom Jurich were still the AD that Jay Wright would entertain the idea of leaving Villanova for Louisville after winning 2 titles in 3 years and turning down multiple NBA offers before winning any titles?
Obviously you can't be proven wrong or right and thats the beauty of your stance here...I'm just trying to see exactly where you're point of contention is... the idea that Tyra never looked anywhere else and simply targeted their "guy" and got him whether or not you just wanted him to ask around to some candidates you think would be better, regardless of if he would nearly certainly be told "no thanks" or your point of contention is that you legitimately think that Tyra should have gotten someone better than Chris Mack and that if Jurich were still here he would have.
So its this...Do you think:
1. We deserve a better coach than Chris Mack and Tom Jurich would have gotten us a better coach.
2. We deserve a better coach than Chris Mack and Tyra should have shopped the job more and met with some "elite" coaches regardless of the likelihood of them seriously considering it.
3. I'm happy with Chris Mack and think it was a great hire.
4. I'm fine with Chris Mack but I think Tyra should have asked some coaches that I consider "elite" just to see what would have happened.
I know you weren't asking me, but this is where I'm at. I can't prove it either way (no one can, that's why this conversation goes round and round) but I would certainly hope that Tyra "kicked the tires" a bit with Jay Wright, even if it was through some back channel to see if there was any interest at all. With Wright in the middle of a run that would end in his 2nd title in 3 years and telling his favorite NBA team the Knicks that he has no interest, my guess was the answer to us was/would have been no.
I hate this idea and I know others do too, but I would hope that Tyra kicked the tires with Tony Bennett as well and likely got the same feedback.
I really liked Eric Mussellman. A fiery, charismatic guy with an "it" factor about him. His Nevada team went to the Sweet 16 and pretty much the whole team is coming back. If Louisville struggles, and they likely will, there will be a lot of second-guessing within the fanbase about Mussellman vs Mack. I think the fanbase would have been very underwhelmed by that hire, at least initially.
Beyond this, I don't know where else he could have gone. Few isn't leaving Montana or wherever the hell Gonzaga is. Billy Donovan isn't leaving the NBA and even if he was on TV wearing 2013 championship gear begging for the job- he's in the Pitino tree and no way does the University go there.
This is how I feel as well. I don't think there's any chance in heck that Wright would leave Nova so I have no problem with him not asking. Mussellman was my 2nd choice after Mack, I agree I like him. I would actually rather have him than Tony Bennett, who I think is a coach that UL might have actually gotten if they had tried. We were't getting Billy D or Few and couldn't go after anyone in the Pitino tree....I think the Chris Mack hire was an absolute home run, but I'm admittedly biased as I wanted Mack to replace Rick when the Powell story broke, so I've been on the Mack-wagon for a few years now.
I don't know that I understand the difference between #2 and #4, but they sound like where I was. You can't win the race if you don't get in the race, and that will always be true.
What's also true is that 99% of message board posters don't have a clue about handicapping a "race" because we're too far removed from the actual goings-on. You don't know whether Jay Wright or Billy Donovan or (insert coach's name) would have picked up the phone; you can only speculate--even Tyra doesn't KNOW that without placing the call.
My concern is that the approach we took is some form of settling. We looked at the situation, said that's as good as we can get, and made that our target. That's what losers and middle-tier performers do. Jurich never did that. For those old enough to know the reference, his motto was "we're Avis and we try harder".
IMO, it didn't take that much "trying" to get Mack, not along with paying $30 million to pull it off. All it took was willingness to write big checks...
http://www.never-nervous.com/2018/0...e-proves-that-louisville-is-still-louisville/
2) Louisville was never getting Jay Wright. Jay Wright didn’t leave for Kentucky in 2007. Jay Wright didn’t leave for the 76ers in 2009. The Villanova coach isn’t leaving for a situation that still has a great bit of uncertainty at Louisville, in the Year of Lord, 2018. It’s not going to happen. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you and I’ve already wasted too much time addressing it.
Just keep telling yourself that an obscure internet journalist publishing for free knows what he's talking about. I know I believe it...
Okay. So who in the hell knew who John L. Smith was when he stepped off a plane? He sure as hell wasn’t in the same class as Howard Schnellenberger. Did Jurich really comb every possible football coaching candidate? Did he approach anyone with a resume close to Howard’s? I never heard of any other candidates it was just JLS.
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Why stop at JLS...Who was Dan McDonnell or Jeff Walz?
And what was U of L baseball or women's basketball? Same answer...not much. Is that how you see U of L men's basketball today?
Another deflection as usual.
UofL baseball and women’s basketball never reached any level of success prior to CDM or CJW.
Football on the other hand had several successful seasons and a top tier HC in Howard Schnellenberger for a DECADE. Jurich hired an unknown head coach from a mid major school in Utah State with no recruiting ties to the Midwest or Southeast. There also were no candidates in the class of Howard interviewed or contacted to our knowledge. Per your thinking Tom Jurich “settled” for JLS.
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Jurich did his homework, he understood what to look for in a great coach and leader. I think timing with Kragthrope was as much a factor as anything in that poor decision. He was the worst fit at the worst time. By far his worst coach decision that had many layers one being he flat pick the wrong guy. Bottom line Jurich had a great track record and everyone trusted his coaching decisions.
Here is the problem Zipp doesn't like or trust Tyra, so any decision the "clown" makes is settling or Tyra having a losing mentality. My opinion is Zipp will never like Tyra, but will eat crow if things go well for the University. That is why these conversations will never end. I firmly believe after the Big East explosion and before Jay Wright won 2 titles he and Jurich had good discussions on him coming to Louisville. At this point however Jay Wright was not ever an option for Louisville, in my opinion.
Mack was an easy choice and maybe Tyra did settle, but that doesn't mean is was a bad choice. If they can recruit at a high level in 2019 then I am even more convinced he was the right choice.
Here is the problem Zipp doesn't like or trust Tyra, so any decision the "clown" makes is settling or Tyra having a losing mentality. My opinion is Zipp will never like Tyra, but will eat crow if things go well for the University. That is why these conversations will never end. I firmly believe after the Big East explosion and before Jay Wright won 2 titles he and Jurich had good discussions on him coming to Louisville. At this point however Jay Wright was not ever an option for Louisville, in my opinion.
Mack was an easy choice and maybe Tyra did settle, but that doesn't mean is was a bad choice. If they can recruit at a high level in 2019 then I am even more convinced he was the right choice.
The better perspective is that U of L performed a miracle in 1984 when Schnelly was hired. Credit to the guys in the picture at that time and The Pipe himself.
If you don't understand the obstacle that recruiting a U of L football coach was prior to the last decade or so, you're as stupid as you act...
You're pretty close... I don't trust Tyra's decision making at the moment and in the near future. I may learn to trust it once I have proof he can make consistently good decisions. So "never" in that respect is incorrect.
But you're probably correct... Regardless of whether he turns out to be good or great in his job, it's improbable that I will ever like him based on how he got his job. And while I can likely learn to trust his decision making if he earns that trust, I doubt that I can ever trust him personally. In fact, he's already done little things to reinforce that opinion...
Yea, obstacles like having a band new state of the art football stadium and a past head coach who had a National Championship on his resume.
Yet, the best Jurich could find was a cowboy hat wearing coach at Utah State in the mighty Big West Conference? Who were the other candidates?
Let's take it another step further......after Petrino left for the Atlanta Falcons....why didn't Jurich go after a coach with more prestige, experience, and success than Steve Kragthorpe? UofL was in a BCS Conference with top tier facilities. Why reach down to CUSA to grab a coach?
The same can be said after Krags left, why couldn't Jurich have landed a head coach from a BCS school versus a 49 year old defensive coordinator with no head coaching experience?
Somehow Tyra is held to a different standard than Jurich?
It never surprises me how little some of our fans think about our program. I have heard many talking heads consider Louisville as one of the top 10 programs in the country. They call us a blue blood program one of the best. However reading this thread these so called die hard Louisville fans on here don't think we can get the best coaches in the country.
Smith succeeded Ron Cooper. No one was mistaking him for a national championship coach.
Funny as hell watching the clowns try to posture. Jurich created the standard that Tyra's held to. But keep on hating Jurich--that's great stuff and makes my job easier...
No. We just cant get a coach from a school who is also on their way to being one of the best. They won 2 out of the last 3 titles. He's not leaving. He never was leaving. He will retire there.
We are realistic people who realize the obvious. Some just want to ignore the obvious and use it as a tactic against Tyra or Mack. Aka, having an Agenda.
No. We just cant get a coach from a school who is also on their way to being one of the best. They won 2 out of the last 3 titles. He's not leaving. He never was leaving. He will retire there.
We are realistic people who realize the obvious. Some just want to ignore the obvious and use it as a tactic against Tyra or Mack. Aka, having an Agenda.
Your post also suggests that Mack isn't one of the best (was available) coaches in the country.
I think we got one of the best coaches in the country, which all the more remarkable given the tenuous situation we find ourselves in. I think that speaks to stature of the program.
Clarify who you wanted Tyra to pursue? Wright wasn't an option. Most people on this board think Mack is one of the best coaches, are you saying he isn't?
I'm fine with Mack but this isn't the first time I've heard the same people say we can't get certain coaches. Truth be told I am not a Tyra fan but he can win me over if he can raise as much money as TJ did. Since the takeover we are losing multimillion dollar donors because they don't like the way things were handled.
Tyra hiring a good coach by paying him millions of dollars is easy now let's see if he can go raise the money to pay these salaries. I don't think he can but I might be wrong time will tell.
Tyra hiring a good coach by paying him millions of dollars is easy now let's see if he can go raise the money to pay these salaries. I don't think he can but I might be wrong time will tell.
Another in a line of deflections.
I’m holding Tom to the standard you are holding Tyra to concerning his hiring of Mack.
You and your minions want to know who Tyra reached out to for the basketball head coaching position. When did Jurich ever provide that information to the public?
You say Tyra settled for Mack, even though you have zero facts to back it up. Then when the same standard is applied to Jurich’s hires for football you have no answer. There were higher profile football coaches Jurich could have tried to hire but he didn’t (hiring coordinators and head coaches from the Big West and CUSA) because the higher profile candidates didn’t want the job or maybe they weren’t the fit Tom wanted for himself and UofL (which is perfectly fine). However that same logic for some reason can’t apply to Tyra’s decision making.
It’s just inconceivable to you that Tyra or any other individual not named Tom Jurich could make a great hire.
No one has a crystal ball or reads minds. The only people I see saying they know otherwise are Mack defenders who are obviously biased.
All most other fans wanted was evidence that better coaches were recruited. And we have none of that evidence which reinforces the suspicions many of us have of Tyra. That's what happens when you get a job with very flimsy credentials. Don't shoot the messenger...
All most other fans wanted was evidence that better coaches were recruited. And we have none of that evidence which reinforces the suspicions many of us have of Tyra. That's what happens when you get a job with very flimsy credentials. Don't shoot the messenger...
Define “Most other fans”.
Can you provide some substantiated numbers of how many fans you are referring?
Otherwise you might want to use “I” or “me, Cocoa, gocds, and maybe 3 or 4 others who drink your Kool-aid”.
Nice try WEED aka #Z1Z4
Jurich only hired one basketball coach. Please compare Mack's credentials to Pitino's.
Jurich didn't have to. He had the credibility to make a hire targeting one person. Your guy OTOH has little credibility to make a hire based on numerous candidates. That is, the two ADs are worlds apart.
But please keep hating on Jurich. And please keep reminding everyone who agrees with my POV that they're my mindless followers. Haters always think they're insulting me with that schtick.
Tyra simply went after the coach everyone was saying he would hire, and he backed up the Brinks truck.
And "clueless" is the only word for someone comparing the U of L basketball job to football, certainly prior to ACC membership. You're convincing no one, but keep trying.
Clown show paranoia. I just acknowledged earlier today what a great job was done in '84 hiring Schnelly. But that didn't help your agenda...
For starters, the posters in this thread who don't apologize for the clown show...
Oh what is that like 4 of you? LOL.
Get your facts straight or quit talking out of your a$$ Weed!
Well if Jurich was the be all end all of AD’s why did he have to settle for coordinators and CUSA coaches for a job with sparkling new facilities and BCS status?
Why did we wanna get in a P5 conference? Because that other ish ain't enough....
I don’t hate Tyra but I do want to see what he does with MCDonnell, Walz and now a new softball coach. It’s too early to crown him for bringing in Mack because of the way it went down.
After Petrion left in 2006 and Krags was fired in 2009, Jurich was tasked with filling a head football coaching position that had full access to the BCS National Championship. His hires were a head coach from a CUSA school (Tulsa) and a career defensive coordinator.
You are complaining that Tyra didn't go after the best possible candidates for the Men's basketball head coaching position, but you fail to apply the same standard to Tom Jurich in his hiring of Krags and Strong. Neither of those guys were top tier head coaching candidates. Why didn't he try to hire someone with head coaching experience from a BCS conference? Don't tell me that Louisville's football program coming off a 2006 Orange Bowl win was not attractive to head coaches at other BCS schools.
I think you guys are mostly arguing over semantics like attorneys, but man, I don't know how anyone can argue against Jurich's record aside from the fact that his loyalty to Pitino cost him his job.
As you say, "deflection".
Again, with all of those wonderful advantages, why was it so important that we get into a P5 conference? That answer also answers your question...
I have come around to this idea lately regarding Jurich.
I still think Pitino is a POS however and wish Tom would have axed him early on.
Is labeling them Mack defenders only giving half the story? Are they only defending him based on just his resume? Or, are they are also showing support for their program, that's been run into the ground nationally and locally for a few years now?
I don't think many fans take to the internet to trash a new coach that hasn't coached a game for their team yet, unless the coach is somebody like Kevin Stallings. Or, if he's revoked scholarships, or done something dubious that clearly warrants scrutiny.
The push back you get on your "take" Zipp is probably more about people that just grow tired of negative takes regardless of whether you claim to *chuckle* "be on the fence" about the guy or not.
I admit I have no strong opinion on the hire either way. I'm a fence sitter
I don't think many fans take to the internet to trash a new coach that hasn't coached a game for their team yet, unless the coach is somebody like Kevin Stallings. Or, if he's revoked scholarships, or done something dubious that clearly warrants scrutiny.
The push back you get on your "take" Zipp is probably more about people that just grow tired of negative takes regardless of whether you claim to *chuckle* "be on the fence" about the guy or not.
I admit I have no strong opinion on the hire either way. I'm a fence sitter
I'm gonna give most posters here--even the stupid ones--credit for being U of L fans. So does your analysis mean that Mack defenders are better fans?
That's the argument that some clown show apologists like Red wanna wage, that when you attack Tyra (for example) you're attacking U of L. Again, you have to connect all of the dots with that argument. And so I ask you... Do you support Gruesome and Pizza Guy? Aren't they "U of L" too?
Or are these two different issues? Is life more complicated than everything-U of L-or-not? I think it is. And so we debate...
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