John "It's about the Kids" Calipari

[nccardfan]

Nope: key difference is THE POSSESSION OF A COLLEGE DEGREE.

Bold and all-caps so you wouldn't miss it this time. I understand that, as a UK fan, you would overlook that part.

Cardfaninmemphis

I agree that the difference is a college degree but neither player got their degree at U of L. I think we need to take our blinders off and see this for what it is really is an opportunity to play in the NCAA and another chance to extend their Basketball careers. And yes they are great kids and U of L did nothing wrong in using the system to fill a need that was created by Jones personal actions and Rozier's early departure.

 

[JohnKBA]

Fify, he's a great recruiter, far from a great coach. Give Pitino, Self, K, Williams....32 five stars in 6 years and I guarantee that they would have more than just one championship.

Self hasn't exactly been void of talent in Lawrence and has parlayed that into only 2 Final Four trips and one title in 12 years, to go along with many early flameouts to much lower seeds, so I would exclude him from that list.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Kids sign with schools not coaches, so the coach leaving should have played no part of his leaving. Or are you saying that all these McD AA you have gotten these last few years are signing with the coach? That's not what uk fans have been saying for the last 8 years.

I haven't seen many presidents out recruiting players. To think a kid only comes to school for the school is Bing close minded. Coach Cal/ Pitino get the players to come play for them because the players feel they can beat utilize/maximize their skills with that particular coach

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Cardfaninmemphis

I agree that the difference is a college degree but neither player got their degree at U of L. I think we need to take our blinders off and see this for what it is really is an opportunity to play in the NCAA and another chance to extend their Basketball careers. And yes they are great kids and U of L did nothing wrong in using the system to fill a need that was created by Jones personal actions and Rozier's early departure.

I agree that they were extending their basketball careers. The point was about the difference between the products of the two systems: a one and done versus a done and one.

I am quite aware that Lee & Lewis did not get undergraduate degrees from UofL. Damion Lee got his degree from Drexel, which, I think, speaks very highly of him. According to Milt Wagner, Drexel is "one of them academic schools"

 

[nccardfan]

I think essentially what we are saying is that their "goals" may be similar it is the method by which they are achieving their goals is substantially different and certainly in terms of education the done and 1 is more commendable and I think has more value. I think one aspect that is overlooked is that Lee and Lewis if and when their bball careers end they always have their degree and their relationship with U of L to fall back on. Not so much for the other guys...

 

[BPGhost]

The larger point is that calipari is a complete hypocrite and is talking out of both sides of his face. I'm not throwing rocks at the OAD or the DAO situations - to me neither are a great way to run a program and, aren't particularly fan friendly.

But for califairy to take the extraordinary step to leave a VM for a reporter whining about one without mentioning the other, shows his true colors about his his focus being on the kids. He doesn't care about the kids except to the extent that they can get him a better job, or a bigger contract. He sure didn't give a crap about those kids at Memphis when he bailed on them - of course to be fair, in addition to padding his bank account, he was also trying to stay one step ahead of the NCAA - kind of a reoccurring theme with that dbag.

Does anyone think he would have said a thing if it would have been Mick Cronin who would have gotten canned instead of Loser Flint?

 

[st-louie-blue]

And by kids, he means only high school kids. He sure doesn't care about college students because if he did, he wouldn't have left a rambling voicemail message for a Philly reporter complaining how Damion Lee's transfer from Drexel got his buddy Loser Flint fired.

"The NCAA has a rule that a kid can leave a program like Drexel after being coached and molded for three years and go to another school without having to sit out,” Calipari said. “If Lee is there, they’re in the NCAA tournament. … It’s not about the school that took him. It’s about we let it happen."

Haven't heard one word from him about freshmen who don't go to class after Christmas but, he wants to impede the mobility of college students who have already graduated.

He is easily the biggest hypocrite in college athletics today.

The only U.K. freshman who didn't go to class that I know was Orton. Cal or no one was going to get Orton to finish his freshman year. Not only did Orton hurt U.K.'s apr, he hurt his own standing/life earnings. Had he listen to Cal. and come back for another year and been coachable, he could be making the really big bucks today. Bad decision Daniel. Oh, Cal truly cares for his kids/players Ask any of them.

 

[BPGhost]

The only U.K. freshman who didn't go to class that I know was Orton. Cal or no one was going to get Orton to finish his freshman year. Not only did Orton hurt U.K.'s apr, he hurt his own standing/life earnings. Had he listen to Cal. and come back for another year and been coachable, he could be making the really big bucks today. Bad decision Daniel. Oh, Cal truly cares for his kids/players Ask any of them.

Trying to figure out why you replied to my post? Who said anything about Orton, or for that matter any other yut player? Also, I never said that he didn't care about HIS players but, his primary reasons for caring are selfish - as his career moves consistently bear out.

I said that he peddles the notion that he cares about kids / players in general - which is complete nonsense. His rant against graduate transfers (and calling out Lee specifically) is proof.

 

[st-louie-blue]

Trying to figure out why you replied to my post? Who said anything about Orton, or for that matter any other yut player? Also, I never said that he didn't care about HIS players but, his primary reasons for caring are selfish - as his career moves consistently bear out.

I said that he peddles the notion that he cares about kids / players in general - which is complete nonsense. His rant against graduate transfers (and calling out Lee specifically) is proof.

I refer you back to your last two paragraphs. I assumed you were talking about U.K.'s only player(Daniel Orton) not going to class after Christmas. Forgive if I was incorrect.

 

[teamcanada]

The only U.K. freshman who didn't go to class that I know was Orton. Cal or no one was going to get Orton to finish his freshman year. Not only did Orton hurt U.K.'s apr, he hurt his own standing/life earnings. Had he listen to Cal. and come back for another year and been coachable, he could be making the really big bucks today. Bad decision Daniel. Oh, Cal truly cares for his kids/players Ask any of them.

Didn't Orton blow out his knee his rookie year? So he probably wouldn't have made any money if he had done that while still in school.

 

[st-louie-blue]

Didn't Orton blow out his knee his rookie year? So he probably wouldn't have made any money if he had done that while still in school.

I think you are correct about his knee injury. As I recall he did go pro but has play mostly out of the country for much less money.

 

[BPGhost]

I refer you back to your last two paragraphs. I assumed you were talking about U.K.'s only player(Daniel Orton) not going to class after Christmas. Forgive if I was incorrect.

I was actually referring to Ben Simmons since his is the most recent OAD example of a player not having any intention of being a student.

Given that I'm not an NBA fan, I'm all for the rules to be changed allowing kids to go straight to the league. It would absolutely decimate yut recruiting and further expose what a mediocre game coach calipari is. You won't see him lobbying for that rule change - in fact, I seem to recall that he was all for kids having to stay two years.

 

[poppycat]

No reason for anyone to complain about the graduate transfer rule or the OAD rule. They're both legal and there's no reason a good coach (or player) should pass on them.
There are some tax loop holes that benefit only a few people and should be closed. But as long as they exist, I will use them when I can find them......it's legal.

I can understand why a coach might oppose a rule but still use it his (team's) advantage.
Whether it's Cal..K..RP..Self or whoever.....to each his own....if it works.

 

[bloodguard13]

I was actually referring to Ben Simmons since his is the most recent OAD example of a player not having any intention of being a student.

Given that I'm not an NBA fan, I'm all for the rules to be changed allowing kids to go straight to the league. It would absolutely decimate yut recruiting and further expose what a mediocre game coach calipari is. You won't see him lobbying for that rule change - in fact, I seem to recall that he was all for kids having to stay two years.

Yeah, the Hall of Fame is full of mediocre Coaches. The Hall of Fame could use a guy like you with your knowledge of College Basketball Coaching to weed some of those clowns out.

 

[valley St. Card]

Nobody listens to Coach Cow anyway. Other coaches don't respect him. They just tolerate his arse.

 

[rockycard]

Yeah, the Hall of Fame is full of mediocre Coaches. The Hall of Fame could use a guy like you with your knowledge of College Basketball Coaching to weed some of those clowns out.

Calipari is in the HOF because of his recruiting, recruiting is a part of coaching. Nobody has come close to having the amount of talent that Kentucky has over the past 6 years, but UConn and Duke each have more championships and Louisville has just as many as UK during that span.

 

[bloodguard13]

Calipari is in the HOF because of his recruiting, recruiting is a part of coaching. Nobody has come close to having the amount of talent that Kentucky has over the past 6 years, but UConn and Duke each have more championships and Louisville has just as many as UK during that span.

I am sure you are right Rocky, you are probably more qualified to evaluate Coaching than the HOF voters. You may not be an Coaching expert but you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? I would be willing to bet that every Coach in the HOF were pretty good recruiters. You may want to check the recruiting class rankings if you are going to say Duke hasn't "come close to the amount of talent that kentucky has had the last 6 years". But let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[BPGhost]

Yeah, the Hall of Fame is full of mediocre Coaches. The Hall of Fame could use a guy like you with your knowledge of College Basketball Coaching to weed some of those clowns out.

Spoken like a true yut fan / cal apologist - perfect example of the saying that the program is so fond of - "select and deflect". Your defense of calipari is simply one of false equivalency - him being a mediocre coach and being in the HOF, has zero bearing on any other HOF coach. Hard to determine amidst your snark if you are being intentionally obtuse in order to try to "prove" your point or, if you really are incapable of grasping that concept.

His career numbers have been largely amassed by feasting on mid-major opponents - first in the A-10, then C-USA and now the sec. Despite having more than 30 McDAAs play for him, he has only one title (and 2 vacated seasons) to show for it. I'd say those are fairly mediocre results given the talent he had and it would be hard to honestly argue that any coach has done so little, with so much.

Lastly, I guarantee that I could offer more value to the HOF than you do to this board.

 

[bloodguard13]

Spoken like a true yut fan / cal apologist - perfect example of the saying that the program is so fond of - "select and deflect". Your defense of calipari is simply one of false equivalency - him being a mediocre coach and being in the HOF, has zero bearing on any other HOF coach. Hard to determine amidst your snark if you are being intentionally obtuse in order to try to "prove" your point or, if you really are incapable of grasping that concept.

His career numbers have been largely amassed by feasting on mid-major opponents - first in the A-10, then C-USA and now the sec. Despite having more than 30 McDAAs play for him, he has only one title (and 2 vacated seasons) to show for it. I'd say those are fairly mediocre results given the talent he had and it would be hard to honestly argue that any coach has done so little, with so much.

Lastly, I guarantee that I could offer more value to the HOF than you do to this board.

I bet you could do better with the Talent that UK and Duke have had, because it's obvious you really know your College Basketball coaching. Are you in the HOF also?

 

[thecycle21]

Money has created this entire problem. Money influences smart people in making bad decisions. It has been that way since currency was created. The college system should only be for students that want to further their education. Being really good at a sport is not an education, it is an skill that someone posses or doesn't. The college system was never designed to be a place for any student to leave after 6 months and enter the work place. That is more a vocational school but not a 4 year institution mission. No matter how you slice it or dice it the one and done is a sham in the academic world.

The done and one is not a sham it meets all the qualifications of a Universities overall mission. It provides the student athlete that takes care of getting his or her degree another academic opportunity. It is student choice to pursue that opportunity which they earned over a 3 or 4 year period through their ACADEMIC not athletic work. The NCAA and high profile coaches that are questioning the merits of the done and one and are perfectly OK with the one and done illustrates exactly where the priorities lie......it all all about the money.

All the other sports protect the Universities mission by requiring students once committed to at least 3 years of higher education. The NCAA wants to blame the NBA well it isn't an NBA problem it is a NCAA problem. The NCAA could change their rules to make taking a one and done player a real problem if you want your university to be a NBA developmental program. The impact isn't that significant less than 1 percent would be impacted by tougher rules.

 

[bloodguard13]

Money has created this entire problem. Money influences smart people in making bad decisions. It has been that way since currency was created. The college system should only be for students that want to further their education. Being really good at a sport is not an education, it is an skill that someone posses or doesn't. The college system was never designed to be a place for any student to leave after 6 months and enter the work place. That is more a vocational school but not a 4 year institution mission. No matter how you slice it or dice it the one and done is a sham in the academic world.

The done and one is not a sham it meets all the qualifications of a Universities overall mission. It provides the student athlete that takes care of getting his or her degree another academic opportunity. It is student choice to pursue that opportunity which they earned over a 3 or 4 year period through their ACADEMIC not athletic work. The NCAA and high profile coaches that are questioning the merits of the done and one and are perfectly OK with the one and done illustrates exactly where the priorities lie......it all all about the money.

All the other sports protect the Universities mission by requiring students once committed to at least 3 years of higher education. The NCAA wants to blame the NBA well it isn't an NBA problem it is a NCAA problem. The NCAA could change their rules to make taking a one and done player a real problem if you want your university to be a NBA developmental program. The impact isn't that significant less than 1 percent would be impacted by tougher rules.

Those are all good points, but i am sure not everyone agrees that done and one basketball players as you prefer to call them, come to UL or any other school for ACADEMIC reasons. I think we both know Lee and Lewis came to UL for 6 months to play for a shot at a Championship as well as to play for CRP and national exposure. I am also guessing that even if you favor the 3 year rule you would make exceptions for the so called done and one players to be able to transfer for 6 months to further their academics as you say or to further basketball experience as is my belief?

 

[BPGhost]

I bet you could do better with the Talent that UK and Duke have had, because it's obvious you really know your College Basketball coaching. Are you in the HOF also?

Once again you post drivel that has nothing to do with what was said. It seems a little early in the day to be drunk posting - are you capable of staying on point?

 

[BPGhost]

Those are all good points, but i am sure not everyone agrees that done and one basketball players as you prefer to call them, come to UL or any other school for ACADEMIC reasons. I think we both know Lee and Lewis came to UL for 6 months to play for a shot at a Championship as well as to play for CRP and national exposure. I am also guessing that even if you favor the 3 year rule you would make exceptions for the so called done and one players to be able to transfer for 6 months to further their academics as you say or to further basketball experience as is my belief?

Do you have any specific information regarding Lee and Lewis' educational experience at Louisville to back up your BS?

AGAIN the point was and is, cow is a hypocrite because he purports himself as being all about the players, when in fact he is simply all about the specific loophole in the system that he has utilized to enrich himself and further his career.

Why wouldn't he support DAO's like Lewis and Lee? Because they never did anything to help him and in his warped opinion, Lee's transfer actually got his buddy fired.

As I said earlier, go back to the previous system of letting HS players go straight to the pros - and then you'll see how much of a players coach cow is.

 

[bloodguard13]

Once again you post drivel that has nothing to do with what was said. It seems a little early in the day to be drunk posting - are you capable of staying on point?

I am sorry ghost, i can't hold a intelligent discussion with you because you are so full of hate for ppl you haven't met or know anything about that you are blinded by the obvious and can't even remember what you post. You posted that he had very mediocre results with all the talent he has had and that is what i replied to. I am through with you and you grade school name calling. The board rules state that we are supposed to treat "all posters" with respect and i try to do that but sometimes it is very difficult when we have to tolerate name calling and foul mouthed posters. I am sure you and others could care less how i feel about certain subjects so feel free to put me on ignore. This is a public forum and even though you may not like or agree with some of the posters on the forum you don't have to respond to or call them names.

 

[BPGhost]

I am sorry ghost, i can't hold a intelligent discussion with you because you are so full of hate for ppl you haven't met or know anything about that you are blinded by the obvious and can't even remember what you post. You posted that he had very mediocre results with all the talent he has had and that is what i replied to. I am through with you and you grade school name calling. The board rules state that we are supposed to treat "all posters" with respect and i try to do that but sometimes it is very difficult when we have to tolerate name calling and foul mouthed posters. I am sure you and others could care less how i feel about certain subjects so feel free to put me on ignore. This is a public forum and even though you may not like or agree with some of the posters on the forum you don't have to respond to or call them names.

If saying that you are obtuse to, or an apologist for calipari's hypocrisy (the main thrust of the thread remember?) qualifies for you as hate filled, or foul mouthed grade school name calling - well, perhaps the Internet is not for you - lol.

Having an intelligent conversation with you has been difficult, mainly because in response to the premise of the thread and my (and others) assertions that calipari is a mediocre in game coach - you have responded by questioning the poster's intelligence and making silly references to "staying at a Holiday Inn". Is that the type of respect you are referring to?

Perhaps if you attempted to contribute to the conversation by actually addressing what has been said by others, you might just find the interchange that you are looking for. If not, I'm sure there are plenty of posters over at Raftards that you can talk to. I hear they specialize in "respect" for all posters over there...

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Calipari's claim that his friend Bruiser Flint would still have his job at Drexel is a load of crap. Nobody really knows what Drexel's record would have been with Lee this year. Furthermore, one bad season does not get you fired. His record at Drexel before this year was pretty mediocre, with one season above .500 in the last four, and even that one was barely above .500. Flint was let go from UMass before coaching at Drexel. Calipari has not considered the possibility the Bruiser Flint just isn't a good coach. Even Lee couldn't save Flint from that.

But, if you are, "all about the kids," then you should be fine with a student deciding to leave a situation that isn't working out for him and moving to one that does, like Kyle Wiltjer did.

 

[BPGhost]

Calipari's claim that his friend Bruiser Flint would still have his job at Drexel is a load of crap. Nobody really knows what Drexel's record would have been with Lee this year. Furthermore, one bad season does not get you fired. His record at Drexel before this year was pretty mediocre, with one season above .500 in the last four, and even that one was barely above .500. Flint was let go from UMass before coaching at Drexel. Calipari has not considered the possibility the Bruiser Flint just isn't a good coach. Even Lee couldn't save Flint from that.

But, if you are, "all about the kids," then you should be fine with a student deciding to leave a situation that isn't working out for him and moving to one that does, like Kyle Wiltjer did.

Who believes even for a nanosecond that cow would have been ok with Wiltjer transferring if he hadn't felt that he had recruited over him and didn't need him?