I reiter.......awww screw it.

[chevelle99]

Declining attendance at U of L sports could be from competition with pro teams like the Louisville Bats and Louisville FC soccer. Minor league baseball attendance is on the rise nationwide. Louisville soccer has progressed to a point they can afford their own stadium too.

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/mino...eaches-nearly-405-million-in-2018/c-295081672

 

[Thecycle27]

Tough situation that is for sure. The scandal fatigue has definitely been a factor in basketball. I think Mack will get basketball back. Football, I am not real sure how you can keep this staff. This team is awful, this staff isn't going to be able to change that reality.

 

[zipp]

Declining attendance at U of L sports could be from competition with pro teams like the Louisville Bats and Louisville FC soccer. Minor league baseball attendance is on the rise nationwide. Louisville soccer has progressed to a point they can afford their own stadium too.

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/mino...eaches-nearly-405-million-in-2018/c-295081672

All of that stuff matters, but it doesn't come close to explaining U of L's fan attrition. There's a uniquely Louisville explanation...

 

[Art79]

I'm blaming someone or something. And just hiring Mack evidently ain't addressing the problem.

No one knows what the underlying causes are, but I have my theories as you do. It's probably not just one thing. But I don't talk to anyone who has supreme confidence in U of L management, and I think that's at the root of much of the ongoing issues. If you think about it, wouldn't new management generate more confidence and support if that management was perceived as better? Sure it would.

And macro trends like people wanna believe don't approach these declines. These are huge declines at U of L.

In the end, it doesn't matter the reason because it's U of L's problem to fix with the people in place now. A coach doesn't get a pass for his assistants or players--that's ultimately on him. The people we have now are simply watching Rome burn...

Seriously?

Hiring one of the top basketball coaches in the country is “watching Rome burn”? We can argue how good of a hire Mack was, but I think he was the best coach available AND the best fit for us. While it’s certainly debatable how good of a hire he was, what’s not debatable is that it was a hire akin to “watching Rome burn”.

No, the current administration is tasked with putting out the “Rome is burning” fires that started from the previous administration’s decisions and lack of effective monitoring of the basketball program. Bobby 2.0 may have been a good decision at the time, but with each passing game now, it sure seems that what would equate to “watching Rome burn” would be keeping him in place.

In addition to not monitoring the previous basketball program effectively (looks like we’re up to 4 “rouge” coaches now), the previous AD also allowed ineffective compliance language in Pitino’s contract, if as you have suggested, having four assistants involved in ignoring various NCAA rules is not enough to be able to fire him for cause. On the football side, he expanded the football stadium one too many times and he bid against himself on a buyout for Petrino.

As for Tyra, he has done several good things that do not equate to “watching Rome burn”… He hired an excellent basketball coach, he kept both Walz and McDonnel in place, and he made a couple of other good hires while also getting rid of an abusive lacrosse coach who should have been jettisoned a long time ago. In addition, I certainly appreciate his interest in the “fan experience”, which I have noticed each time I purchase the $3.00 items at CS, as opposed to the previous increases in prices for everything virtually every year. Yes, Tyra inherited a lot financial and other problems from the previous administration and it may take a while to dig out of the holes, but he’s working on it, he’s the AD at my school, and I think he’s been spot-on so far, and I support him.

And as for a uniquely Louisville explanation for the basketball attendance decline, I suggest that the continuing scandals are that explanation.

Again, if you want to talk about Rome burning, the fire started with the previous administration.

 

[zipp]

Seriously?

Hiring one of the top basketball coaches in the country is “watching Rome burn”? We can argue how good of a hire Mack was, but I think he was the best coach available AND the best fit for us. While it’s certainly debatable how good of a hire he was, what’s not debatable is that it was a hire akin to “watching Rome burn”.

No, the current administration is tasked with putting out the “Rome is burning” fires that started from the previous administration’s decisions and lack of effective monitoring of the basketball program. Bobby 2.0 may have been a good decision at the time, but with each passing game now, it sure seems that what would equate to “watching Rome burn” would be keeping him in place.

In addition to not monitoring the previous basketball program effectively (looks like we’re up to 4 “rouge” coaches now), the previous AD also allowed ineffective compliance language in Pitino’s contract, if as you have suggested, having four assistants involved in ignoring various NCAA rules is not enough to be able to fire him for cause. On the football side, he expanded the football stadium one too many times and he bid against himself on a buyout for Petrino.

As for Tyra, he has done several good things that do not equate to “watching Rome burn”… He hired an excellent basketball coach, he kept both Walz and McDonnel in place, and he made a couple of other good hires while also getting rid of an abusive lacrosse coach who should have been jettisoned a long time ago. In addition, I certainly appreciate his interest in the “fan experience”, which I have noticed each time I purchase the $3.00 items at CS, as opposed to the previous increases in prices for everything virtually every year. Yes, Tyra inherited a lot financial and other problems from the previous administration and it may take a while to dig out of the holes, but he’s working on it, he’s the AD at my school, and I think he’s been spot-on so far, and I support him.

And as for a uniquely Louisville explanation for the basketball attendance decline, I suggest that the continuing scandals are that explanation.

Again, if you want to talk about Rome burning, the fire started with the previous administration.

And none of that evidently matters. Money is still evaporating. The people in charge are trying everything except what works. If that's not watching Rome burn, it's fiddling because what they're doing ain't working...

 

[Thecycle27]

Basketball is easy to explain, much more of a commitment to attend, general decline in popularity, and scandal. Mack should help.

Football is a problem there is no denying that, the question is why has attendance been so bad the last 2 years? Is it all related to Petrino? Is it pricing? Is it the ACC? Last year the games were all entertaining except the Clemson games. The product wasn't great but it was pretty good. This year is a train wreck. i am just not sure a new coach would drastically change the landscape of Louisville football. With that said a new coach is coming there is no doubt about that.

 

[Art79]

And none of that evidently matters. Money is still evaporating. The people in charge are trying everything except what works. If that's not watching Rome burn, it's fiddling because what they're doing ain't working...

OK, do you know what it is that works, or will work, in the situation that the overall athletic program is in? If you do, and if you support the program, please feel free to share.

 

[zipp]

OK, do you know what it is that works, or will work, in the situation that the overall athletic program is in? If you do, and if you support the program, please feel free to share.

Those are at least the right questions...

Replace what you know ain't working. The coaches and players are the same. What else is left?

I wanna see things get better too. I'm just not someone who blindly follows...

 

[zipp]

Basketball is easy to explain...

Whoa there, fella! You explain why basketball ticket sales are pacing at 40% of what Tyra just budgeted a few months ago.

And while you're explaining, how would someone competent to do his job be that far off in his "budgeting"...

 

[Art79]

Those are at least the right questions...

Replace what you know ain't working. The coaches and players are the same. What else is left?

I wanna see things get better too. I'm just not someone who blindly follows...

So do you have any suggestions? What is it specifically that you think is not working?

Or do you just like blaming the current guy when most of the big problems (basketball scandals, poorly written contract for Pitino that leaves doubt as to whether he could be fired for cause despite lack of NCAA compliance on the part of four assistants, needlessly expensive buyout for Petrino) are ones that he inherited?

Tyra has been on the job only for a year, and it’s going to take a long time to dig out of all of this. Be patient and continue to support the program or get out of the way. Maybe it would be help to refrain from criticizing unless you have specific answers or suggestions.

 

[thepip]

The real question... How many Petrino supporters are left at this point?

 

[zipp]

So do you have any suggestions? What is it specifically that you think is not working?...

I'm pretty sure I answered this question since you signed up to start posting... It's all about getting confidence back into the most people in the fanbase. Right now, there's almost no confidence. And you focus on changing what ain't working or hasn't worked...

• At the top is mending fences with Jurich and try to recruit him back. That guy would single-handedly fix many problems to the extent he's willing. You bend over backward to get him.
• Re-install the NCAA banners or their replacements. That benefit is obvious.
• It would still appeal to some fans/donors, so you recruit Doc Ramsey as well. Obviously, you publicly drop the lawsuit against him and commend his performance as past Prez.
• If much of that is successful, you then reach out to Pitino probably thru Jurich. Get that mess over with, and maybe Jurich deals with Petrino in the process.

This requires everyone to put their egos in a box and work toward what is best for U of L. I don't think there's much the current people can do on their own.

...Or do you just like blaming the current guy when most of the big problems (basketball scandals, poorly written contract for Pitino that leaves doubt as to whether he could be fired for cause despite lack of NCAA compliance on the part of four assistants, needlessly expensive buyout for Petrino) are ones that he inherited?...

There's nothing wrong that could have been anticipated with anything but hindsight, which is pretty must useless. When these past contracts were signed, no one had any issue with them.

...Tyra has been on the job only for a year, and it’s going to take a long time to dig out of all of this. Be patient and continue to support the program or get out of the way. Maybe it would be help to refrain from criticizing unless you have specific answers or suggestions.

I've just told you what I've been saying all along before you showed up. And I don't generally take advice from someone who hasn't been around here for more than a few weeks anyway. Enjoy your time on cardinalsports.com......

 

[Art79]

Zipp,
Was the settlement with Jurich not an attempt to mend fences? If he's willing to support the program in any fashion, I'm all for that. But he's not the AD any longer and that's not gonna change.

 

[zipp]

Zipp,
Was the settlement with Jurich not an attempt to mend fences? If he's willing to support the program in any fashion, I'm all for that. But he's not the AD any longer and that's not gonna change.

I don't think there was much effort by either side to truly mend fences. It was simply an amicable settlement where Jurich was compensated and potential litigation was avoided.

What I'm talking about is something like a unilateral effort to recognize Jurich for his accomplishments. Take about $50 grand and announce the location of a statue in his honor, what most people think should be done anyway. Issue an apology for whatever disgrace U of L tried to heap on him, and consider bringing his son back to work for U of L. (He's probably still looking for a job anyway.) Put Mark in some type of university--not athletics--fund raising capacity with no links to Tyra.

In time, maybe that gets Dad back to Louisville and assisting his son which indirectly helps U of L. And it starts the ball rolling on repairing all of this damage that will take years if not a generation to get past. As I said, all egos have to go out the door...

 

[teamcanada]

I don't think there was much effort by either side to truly mend fences. It was simply an amicable settlement where Jurich was compensated and potential litigation was avoided.

What I'm talking about is something like a unilateral effort to recognize Jurich for his accomplishments. Take about $50 grand and announce the location of a statue in his honor, what most people think should be done anyway. Issue an apology for whatever disgrace U of L tried to heap on him, and consider bringing his son back to work for U of L. (He's probably still looking for a job anyway.) Put Mark in some type of university--not athletics--fund raising capacity with no links to Tyra.

In time, maybe that gets Dad back to Louisville and assisting his son which indirectly helps U of L. And it starts the ball rolling on repairing all of this damage that will take years if not a generation to get past. As I said, all egos have to go out the door...

Look at the crap product on the field and court. That's why people have no confidence. I was big Jurich supporter but he left Tyra a lot to clean up. The basketball program was in a big mess and football has became a disaster. The Jurich buyout. The Pitino situation and Petrino's outrageous contract buyout are all things he inherited. The Mack hire was a home run and we will see how he handles the football coaching situation. IMO Jurichs downfall was keeping Pitino around and it came back to bite UofL in the end.

 

[teamcanada]

He also resigned Walls and McDonald.

 

[zipp]

Look at the crap product on the field and court...

He also resigned Walls and McDonald.

I don't agree with your analysis, but it doesn't matter who's done what. All that matters is fixing things ASAP. And that ain't happening with the people in charge--things are just eroding.

Like it or not, there a lot of people in this community and fanbase who respect Jurich even after everything you say has happened. And those people aren't supporting U of L at all or nearly like they did. If you want that situation addressed, you have to think out of the box and do what has to be done. Talking about the past is missing the point...

 

[beantowncard]

Whoa there, fella! You explain why basketball ticket sales are pacing at 40% of what Tyra just budgeted a few months ago.

And while you're explaining, how would someone competent to do his job be that far off in his "budgeting"...

Depends on what you mean by 40% below budget. I assume his budget was for the full season of ticket sales, much of which have not yet been sold ( we haven’t actually started the season yet). I don’t know what % of sales are single game or walk-up, but I would assume that the %would go up the further out you go in the schedule. If the 40% figure is what has currently been sold, it may be there is more to come from in-season sales. It may not be knowable but a good number to have would be % of budget sold at this point in 2016, 2015, etc. I would be surprised if the season’s sales were in the bank be , say, Nov 1.

 

[zipp]

Depends on what you mean by 40% below budget. I assume his budget was for the full season of ticket sales, much of which have not yet been sold ( we haven’t actually started the season yet). I don’t know what % of sales are single game or walk-up, but I would assume that the %would go up the further out you go in the schedule. If the 40% figure is what has currently been sold, it may be there is more to come from in-season sales. It may not be knowable but a good number to have would be % of budget sold at this point in 2016, 2015, etc. I would be surprised if the season’s sales were in the bank be , say, Nov 1.

All of the season ticket sales window is essentially over since a season ticket, technically speaking, included the Bellarmine game. What you have left are "packages" sold by U of L and individual game tickets. Primary market tickets will be sold by U of L as games approach and packages are marketed. In the secondary market, tickets for all of these games have been for sale individually. Those are the prices I have been reporting as they decline. Resellers understand that the best price you can get is probably before U of L floods the primary market.

It was announced this week that U of L had booked $5.4 million in basketball tickets as of 9/30/18. A season ticket is priced at around $1,000; so that represents at most 6,000 or so season tickets in an arena seating almost four times that. The LPT, Duke, and UNC games will sell out or come close, but that's maybe another half million per game. With a $13 million budget, I don't think there's a chance they'll get within $5 million of that number. And U of L's down another $2 million on football ticket sales.

We also haven't considered the CAF donations that accompany many/most of the basketball ticket sales. Those numbers weren't disclosed at the ULAA meeting a few days ago. The basketball deficit could double...

 

[Thecycle27]

Hard to immediately pick up the pieces in basketball. They is still stuff hanging out there that could impact ticket sales and future revenue. They have they right guy once success comes and the cloud hanging over the program lift it people will come back for games because the ACC is worth watching every game. This year will be a struggle and doubt they will hit their numbers. That is the reality of the situation. I agree Jurich could make it easier, but he won't.

 

[chevelle99]

Try and bring back the Jurich's and Ramsey to increase ticket sales. LOL. Just admit the University of Jurich and Pitino folks are gone. They won't be back until we are winning and top ranked. Meanwhile do some marketing and go get new U of L fans. How about a better product on the football field to put butts in seats at the now huge stadium. As for Basketball season tickets, we have a new coach with great promise but an as of yet unknown product. Time to get creative with marketing and attract some new U of L fans. 1) If it isn't already a thing, try some mini packages for weeknight only or weekend only games. 2) Packages with tickets when local school systems are on fall, winter or spring break. Not everyone leaves town when the kids are out of school.

 

[teamcanada]

I don't agree with your analysis, but it doesn't matter who's done what. All that matters is fixing things ASAP. And that ain't happening with the people in charge--things are just eroding.

Like it or not, there a lot of people in this community and fanbase who respect Jurich even after everything you say has happened. And those people aren't supporting U of L at all or nearly like they did. If you want that situation addressed, you have to think out of the box and do what has to be done. Talking about the past is missing the point...

You say talking about the past is missing the point yet all you have done in this thread is compare everything to the past.

 

[PushupMan]

Re-hiring Jurich won’t fix anything. It would just ensure that UofL basketball gets the death penalty.

 

[zipp]

You say talking about the past is missing the point yet all you have done in this thread is compare everything to the past.

Potential solutions lie in the past. That's all I'm talking about. Guys like you resisting that is why the future remains grim...

 

[zipp]

Re-hiring Jurich won’t fix anything. It would just ensure that UofL basketball gets the death penalty.

Firing him sure didn't help the appeal, did it? Besides, I never said anything about "rehiring" him...

 

[zipp]

Hard to immediately pick up the pieces in basketball. They is still stuff hanging out there that could impact ticket sales and future revenue. They have they right guy once success comes and the cloud hanging over the program lift it people will come back for games because the ACC is worth watching every game. This year will be a struggle and doubt they will hit their numbers. That is the reality of the situation. I agree Jurich could make it easier, but he won't.

You're gonna get knocked back so hard and far in athletics that recovery anywhere close to where you were will be impossible unless Tyra is Jurich 2.0. And from what I've seen and recall, he's nowhere close...

 

[zipp]

Try and bring back the Jurich's and Ramsey to increase ticket sales. LOL. Just admit the University of Jurich and Pitino folks are gone. They won't be back until we are winning and top ranked. Meanwhile do some marketing and go get new U of L fans. How about a better product on the football field to put butts in seats at the now huge stadium. As for Basketball season tickets, we have a new coach with great promise but an as of yet unknown product. Time to get creative with marketing and attract some new U of L fans. 1) If it isn't already a thing, try some mini packages for weeknight only or weekend only games. 2) Packages with tickets when local school systems are on fall, winter or spring break. Not everyone leaves town when the kids are out of school.

The problem is the Ramsey, Jurich, and Pitino folks are who have most of the money. You can be prideful and say "we don't need their money." And that relegates you to be a Boston College or Georgia Tech in the ACC. Just participating, not really competing.

You have new leadership at the top in men's basketball, and no one's buying your tickets. Basketball used to be the cash cow, now it's the slaughtered calf. Obviously, support goes deeper than the basketball coach.

Other sports have seen declines in attendance for inexplicable reasons. Women's basketball and baseball are two obvious examples. Great coaches and products on the field/court. Why would their fan support decline?

Remain in denial, it doesn't matter. The path we're on will become obvious to everyone at some point. How far down we will be when enough people reach that point is the only question...

 

[PushupMan]

Firing him sure didn't help the appeal, did it? Besides, I never said anything about "rehiring" him...

We’re still playing basketball this year, so yes, it did help the appeal....

 

[gobigblue812]

Is it possible the FBI probe is why BB ticket sales are down?

 

[zipp]

We’re still playing basketball this year, so yes, it did help the appeal....

Red herring. "Playing basketball this year" was never on the table WRT the appeal...

 

[zipp]

Is it possible the FBI probe is why BB ticket sales are down?

Not sure why I'm responding to a slapd!ck, but it doesn't explain 50%...

 

[wilkie01]

Fans are getting fed up with the sports tarnishing the University's image. We are in the process of rebuilding basketball. It is time to do the same in football.

 

[PushupMan]

Red herring. "Playing basketball this year" was never on the table WRT the appeal...

Glad you picked up on that ... I saw your red herring and decided to reply in kind.

As you very well know, firing Pitino and Jurich was not about winning the appeal. The appeal and the firing had very little to do with each other. The firing was in response to the news that Kenny Johnson had worked with Adidas to send $100K to Brian Bowen, Senior.

 

[zipp]

Glad you picked up on that ... I saw your red herring and decided to reply in kind.

As you very well know, firing Pitino and Jurich was not about winning the appeal. The appeal and the firing had very little to do with each other. The firing was in response to the news that Kenny Johnson had worked with Adidas to send $100K to Brian Bowen, Senior.

Sure, but it was in the past and it didn't faze the NCAA.

Did the NCAA nod or wink that's a credit next time? I wouldn't assume that. Did Tyra and Postel ask for that credit then? More stuff we will never know...

 

[teamcanada]

Potential solutions lie in the past. That's all I'm talking about. Guys like you resisting that is why the future remains grim...

Seems like you are the one resisting the future. Tyra is the AD . I'm not sure what you think he could do better than he has.

 

[zipp]

Seems like you are the one resisting the future. Tyra is the AD . I'm not sure what you think he could do better than he has.

Tyra can't do anything better because he's incapable. That was the suspicion about him coming into the job, and all he's done is prove that.

I'm reaching for solutions besides those we know won't work. No sense in expecting different results from a guy who isn't qualified to do the job...

 

[chevelle99]

If the big money did follow Ramsey, Jurich and Pitino out the door there isn't much Tyra can do to compensate for that loss of cash. The current University President, Board and AD will be dealing with a less profitable sports program for a while. I hope they stay focused on cleaning house even if it means lean financial times for a while.

 

[zipp]

If the big money did follow Ramsey, Jurich and Pitino out the door there isn't much Tyra can do to compensate for that loss of cash. The current University President, Board and AD will be dealing with a less profitable sports program for a while. I hope they stay focused on cleaning house even if it means lean financial times for a while.

Easy to say that when you don't know how "lean" those times are gonna be. You don't need to burn the house to the ground to prove to yourself (not to me) that the old regime needed to go...

 

[Thecycle27]

There is no quick fix to this mess, not sure why you think there is when then basketball program was part of the 2 largest scandals EVER! Like it or not Louisville was the face of the last scandal. It is going to take time, but I like the new leadership. Football in a lot of ways is paying the price in fans anger or apathy.

Winning in both will go a long way in bringing people back.

 

[chevelle99]

Dropping from one of the most profitable if not the most profitable athletic program in college to somewhere in the middle is not a big deal to me. Pretty sure many other U of L fans feel the same. Would rather have a university, coaches and teams I can be proud of than a huge cash surplus. Sadly some people don't care about shame if they have cash. Don't think we will be missing any rent payments or issuing IOUs to coaches any time soon even with the downturn. And if I'm wrong we could turn the new end zone expansion into a peddlers mall and Chinese Buffet to make some extra cash.