I know it’s Kentucky State
- Thread starter rockycard
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They didn’t play that way against Furman. It was a mess. I’m sure you have some nice insight into the Cards. Feel free to post.
It doesn't matter if you hear a Meow or a Roar, it is a Kitty fan from BBN.
Pease to all.
Go CARDS!
Pease to all.
Go CARDS!
The guys that thought they saw something in this team might end up getting the last laugh. I was down on them early and will probably be down on them again but they sure did have a good week this week. They just crushed Maryland on the glass and played some physical D in both games. Still don't see a ton of firepower but I saw a lot of intensity and confidence that seemed lacking in the JV portion of the schedule the first few weeks. If they embrace that defensive identity they are going to have a good season. Personally I set goal to getting an NCAA bid. I know that's low bar for this program but given recent history that's what I'm hoping for.
I took some serious grief for expressing my belief in this roster, and I will confess that it is still too early to make any pronouncements about where they end up by tournament time. With that said, it is remarkable that some UL fans would discount a team that returns four kids who started at one time or another last year, and that added 4 experienced transfers who had clearly demonstrated success in their respective previous schools. The addition of JuCo Ellis, Wheeler and Curry make this a legitimate 11 - 12 rotation.
Remember our HC missed these first 6 games; and that fact will result in further improvement once they learn the new offense and adjust to the influx of so many combinations.
I said it before, and have not seen it yet ……but do not be surprised to see a true “5 for 5 platoon substitution“ before season ends. This roster is quite unique in the respect that it is not only possible ……. It could be argued that it has an unprecedented fit in terms of individual skill sets. 40 minutes of that level of up and down basketball can wear most opponents down by the last 10 minutes of a game.
Remember our HC missed these first 6 games; and that fact will result in further improvement once they learn the new offense and adjust to the influx of so many combinations.
I said it before, and have not seen it yet ……but do not be surprised to see a true “5 for 5 platoon substitution“ before season ends. This roster is quite unique in the respect that it is not only possible ……. It could be argued that it has an unprecedented fit in terms of individual skill sets. 40 minutes of that level of up and down basketball can wear most opponents down by the last 10 minutes of a game.
In most things in life, the truth is probably somewhere in-between.
Everyone has their own vision for the team my aspiration given the last handful of years is to make the NCAA Tournament.
The ACC is horrible so the team will have to finish top 4 to keep the NCAA from excluding them. Picking up the 2 wins they pulled this week gives their resume something out of conference to hopefully clap about, if either Maryland or Miss St can make the tournament that helps the cause. It's unclear if those teams are good or bad though. Maryland is probably a better bet but their league is deep.
Everyone has their own vision for the team my aspiration given the last handful of years is to make the NCAA Tournament.
The ACC is horrible so the team will have to finish top 4 to keep the NCAA from excluding them. Picking up the 2 wins they pulled this week gives their resume something out of conference to hopefully clap about, if either Maryland or Miss St can make the tournament that helps the cause. It's unclear if those teams are good or bad though. Maryland is probably a better bet but their league is deep.
Beating #12 Michigan State there would be a significant step forward. One of the primary disadvantages that we had facing MSU in the past was their physicality; if the same UL effort that we saw in the Bahamas appears, we will negate the traditional strength that the Spartans enjoy.
I know it’s Kentucky state, but we suck!
Boy was I drinking too much red cool aid back in exhibition season.
Boy was I drinking too much red cool aid back in exhibition season.
Rocky …..you are not alone; this is not only unexpected, it is unacceptable to anyone associated with UL.
Unexpected? Again, I definitely don’t want to be correct. I sounded a warning after the Kentucky State exhibition game, only to be chastised by none other than you. Short term memory loss?
No Shortcreek, you were too busy trying to relive Carlik Jones and the one-dimensional 2020 team, which failed to make the NCAA, as your rationale for predicting such low expectations for this 2021 roster.
This team is definitely struggling, and most disappointing, but it’s not a result of insufficient talent. There is no continuity or identity with the combinations, changing the offense appears to have contributed to the poor performance.
No team shooting in the 20% range is going to win ….. some really bad shots, but even the good looks are not going down.
This team is definitely struggling, and most disappointing, but it’s not a result of insufficient talent. There is no continuity or identity with the combinations, changing the offense appears to have contributed to the poor performance.
No team shooting in the 20% range is going to win ….. some really bad shots, but even the good looks are not going down.
Incorrect. My rationale if you’ll simply read past posts is that a low level D-II team (Kentucky State) was challenging and exposing our weak/soft front line. That’s just one of many issues.
This team is struggling for many reasons. But if you think we have sufficient talent you are sadly mistaken. Name me one current player that could get on the floor for our 2013 team? Again, Montrelz Harrell didn’t start for that team. He’s a long-term NBA player that will earn more than $100 million in the league. There isn’t one player currently that could play for that team. That’s not sufficient talent.
Louisville level talent from the past is what Baylor has currently. While you use 20% as your threshold I’ll give you a example of how talent overcomes shooting in the 20% range. Baylor (#2 ranked) played #6 Villanova this past Saturday. Baylor won 57-36 and shot 6-24 (25%) from the 3 pt line and 22-56 (39.3%) overall. That’s sufficient talent.
One of the things that makes me sick is we as a program accept the “NCAA Cloud”, while Arizona, Auburn, Kansas and others don’t use that crutch and roll on. I haven’t quit on Mack but I’m damn close. No more excuses, he needs to get the job done or get out of the way.
There are fans that are willing to put on their Cardinal red colored glasses and say we’ll be fine, but not me. I know what I’m seeing and we are currently a run of the mill team with very mediocre talent. We’re going 18-12 at best this season, if we do better remind me and I’ll eat my crow. And believe me, I want to eat that crow.
The team lost it's starting backcourt that did all the heavy lifting for an NIT team.
The Cards did not reload with any 5 star guys, or top 5/10 transfers. There does not appear to be a single NBA draft pick on the roster.
As individuals each player is talented enough to play D1 basketball and majority could be in a rotation for most the P5 teams. But collectively the question is, will there be enough talent to compensate for not having any top shelf talent. The lack of alpha rears it's head with those scoring droughts we've witnessed. The team has nowhere to go with the ball when they really need a basket.
I've seen a lot of posters point to the # of good players and a hope the Cards keep playing a lot of guys and get after teams through the #'s game. I actually, POLITELY (LOL!) disagree in what the team should do. I don't believe the Cards should be playing 10, 11 guys spreading minutes. I believe the rotation should be tighter. Decisions should be made on the rotation and cut it at 8, maybe 9. Guys can't get rhythm because they are shuffling in and out of the lineup randomly. Players need consistent playing time to produce at this level. Spreading minutes between 10-11 guys is just too much. Only a couple guys have rhythm. The majority of the team looking over their shoulder at the scorer's table each dead ball. Why does the offense look so bad? What would you expect when you don't have top end guys and the lineup is constantly shuffling every 3rd trip down the court?
Overall the team lacks quickness, length, and post play. It's just not that talented of a team. They are reliant on the 3 pt shot.
There is time to get better, at least better than this. The half court defense is decent. But offensively this team is extremely challenged with the personnel it has.
The Cards did not reload with any 5 star guys, or top 5/10 transfers. There does not appear to be a single NBA draft pick on the roster.
As individuals each player is talented enough to play D1 basketball and majority could be in a rotation for most the P5 teams. But collectively the question is, will there be enough talent to compensate for not having any top shelf talent. The lack of alpha rears it's head with those scoring droughts we've witnessed. The team has nowhere to go with the ball when they really need a basket.
I've seen a lot of posters point to the # of good players and a hope the Cards keep playing a lot of guys and get after teams through the #'s game. I actually, POLITELY (LOL!) disagree in what the team should do. I don't believe the Cards should be playing 10, 11 guys spreading minutes. I believe the rotation should be tighter. Decisions should be made on the rotation and cut it at 8, maybe 9. Guys can't get rhythm because they are shuffling in and out of the lineup randomly. Players need consistent playing time to produce at this level. Spreading minutes between 10-11 guys is just too much. Only a couple guys have rhythm. The majority of the team looking over their shoulder at the scorer's table each dead ball. Why does the offense look so bad? What would you expect when you don't have top end guys and the lineup is constantly shuffling every 3rd trip down the court?
Overall the team lacks quickness, length, and post play. It's just not that talented of a team. They are reliant on the 3 pt shot.
There is time to get better, at least better than this. The half court defense is decent. But offensively this team is extremely challenged with the personnel it has.
Agree with the majority of your points. I too believe (and have previously posted) that this team will live or die by the three.
I also think the rotation is too big in numbers. Wiz and Curry are in way over their heads. JJ evidently has pissed someone on the staff off, I expect him to bolt soon. So, there’s three out of the rotation.
I also think the rotation is too big in numbers. Wiz and Curry are in way over their heads. JJ evidently has pissed someone on the staff off, I expect him to bolt soon. So, there’s three out of the rotation.
I’m not sure why we expected anything different from Mack. He does not develop NBA type players. You can go back at his several years at Xavier and yes he had some players play professionally overseas but the number of ex Xavier players that stayed on a roster more than 2-3 years is probably less than 3 or 4.
I believe fans naturally expect a program of this stature to recover.
Given the rock bottom the program had reached off the court, I think fans were receptive to any form of good news, and an official announcement of a new coach would be considered good news compared to everything else happening with the program at that time.
The excitement of having a new HC may not have been all about the guy being brought in, but it was seen as a potential next step to recovery for the program in general. Clearly, fans were wrong about that, no step to recovery has really transpired.
Fans wanted to feel good. About something!
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The recovery can’t start until the NCAA concludes its investigations or outcome. When we know how far we have fallen before we can rebuild.
Agree I don't think anybody anticipated the length of time this has dragged, including Mack.
ShortCreek:
Comparing this UL roster to the 2013 NC Cards is well beyond any exchange that you and I had before or during this thread. Our comparison was to last year’s team and I still believe that having Ellis, Locke, West and Faulkner replacing Jones is a plus despite the disappointment we have seen this far; and believe me I liked Jones and his energy last year.
I do not want you to “eat crow”, that is not what this is about.
The combination of a 6 game suspension to the HC, replacing 2 assistant coaches, and implementing a new offense may explain more about their performance than the talent of the kids. If you are objective, you must acknowledge that Williamson has shown a few periods of contributing up to the lofty expectations that we have had for Sam, despite mostly periods of major disappointment. Withers is athletic and returned from a productive year playing a lot of 5, only to be moved to a 4 where he is clearly struggling, but I would not confuse that with questioning his level of talent.
Locke played well at Florida against top D1 competition where he was a consistent 40% 3 point shooter …… clearly his shot so far has missed expectations …… is that about his talent level or his difficulty finding his place in this offense?
We witnessed Ellis put on an exhibition for about 15 minutes or so against MSU, a most formidable defensive challenge. No, he has not shown any semblance of consistency before or since, but to minimize his talent or ability to improve his game this early is a mistake.
Cross is one who has not disappointed. He has battled a dislocated finger and a stomach flu to perform pretty close to expectations, particularly exceeding the defensive expectations that most applied to his arrival.
No we are not Baylor, or Alabama for that matter ……but the season is still early and I continue to hold out hope for much improvement as we get into more ACC action. We traveled into NCST and left with a win; and they turn around and push Purdue into OT before losing. That might not mean much, but it tells me that winning (and yes losing) when great portions of your game are missing for long periods in a game ……….. there is some reason to be optimistic if Mack can make the adjustments that result in these kids executing up to their individual potential.
Comparing this UL roster to the 2013 NC Cards is well beyond any exchange that you and I had before or during this thread. Our comparison was to last year’s team and I still believe that having Ellis, Locke, West and Faulkner replacing Jones is a plus despite the disappointment we have seen this far; and believe me I liked Jones and his energy last year.
I do not want you to “eat crow”, that is not what this is about.
The combination of a 6 game suspension to the HC, replacing 2 assistant coaches, and implementing a new offense may explain more about their performance than the talent of the kids. If you are objective, you must acknowledge that Williamson has shown a few periods of contributing up to the lofty expectations that we have had for Sam, despite mostly periods of major disappointment. Withers is athletic and returned from a productive year playing a lot of 5, only to be moved to a 4 where he is clearly struggling, but I would not confuse that with questioning his level of talent.
Locke played well at Florida against top D1 competition where he was a consistent 40% 3 point shooter …… clearly his shot so far has missed expectations …… is that about his talent level or his difficulty finding his place in this offense?
We witnessed Ellis put on an exhibition for about 15 minutes or so against MSU, a most formidable defensive challenge. No, he has not shown any semblance of consistency before or since, but to minimize his talent or ability to improve his game this early is a mistake.
Cross is one who has not disappointed. He has battled a dislocated finger and a stomach flu to perform pretty close to expectations, particularly exceeding the defensive expectations that most applied to his arrival.
No we are not Baylor, or Alabama for that matter ……but the season is still early and I continue to hold out hope for much improvement as we get into more ACC action. We traveled into NCST and left with a win; and they turn around and push Purdue into OT before losing. That might not mean much, but it tells me that winning (and yes losing) when great portions of your game are missing for long periods in a game ……….. there is some reason to be optimistic if Mack can make the adjustments that result in these kids executing up to their individual potential.
Our talent level is mediocre to very average. We’re Louisville, our expectations should be Final Four level. Various players (I specifically remember this coming out of Malik’s mouth preseason) mentioned a National Championship as their goal this season! After having watched our team those thoughts are unrealistic and borderline delusional.
You can continue to revert back to our Carlik discussion if you wish. I chose to reference 2013 due to the first question I’ll ask below. Feel free to answer the following questions:
Should the program’s annual goal be to reach the Final Four?
Is the current team/roster capable of making a Final Four?
If you answer “No” to the first question then you choose to accept mediocrity and not excellence.
If you answer “Yes” to the second question you are either delusional or don’t know much about basketball.
ShortCreek -
Question 1 has to incorporate context. Most years absolutely the program goal should be F4. While the program is still waiting for final sanctions for the off court problems the goal right now (key is right now) really isn't realistically to reach F4. This doesn't mean mediocrity is accepted, it means the off-court issues are understood to have really impacted Mack's ability to get the required talent we both agree he needs and doesn't have. No coach can obtain front end talent with the NCAA in waiting to crush a program. Top players aren't gonna sign up for that. They want exposure in March and that could be taken away officially any day by the NCAA. I'm not saying fans accept it, many are frustrated. This program just can't get back to the annual goal until the smoke finally clears with the NCAA sanctions. I understand the situation is unprecedented I can't recall any program waiting this long for the hammer, but it's a real thing and I don't think some of the fans truly understand how crippling all this has been and continues to presently be.
Note - I'm not 100% sure how NIL is impacting the game either too soon to get a handle on it. Some guys are making a ton of $ on it, how are the UofL basketball players doing with NIL?
Answer to Question 2 is obviously no, a few fans were delusional preseason for sure, I think they get it now LOL!
Question 1 has to incorporate context. Most years absolutely the program goal should be F4. While the program is still waiting for final sanctions for the off court problems the goal right now (key is right now) really isn't realistically to reach F4. This doesn't mean mediocrity is accepted, it means the off-court issues are understood to have really impacted Mack's ability to get the required talent we both agree he needs and doesn't have. No coach can obtain front end talent with the NCAA in waiting to crush a program. Top players aren't gonna sign up for that. They want exposure in March and that could be taken away officially any day by the NCAA. I'm not saying fans accept it, many are frustrated. This program just can't get back to the annual goal until the smoke finally clears with the NCAA sanctions. I understand the situation is unprecedented I can't recall any program waiting this long for the hammer, but it's a real thing and I don't think some of the fans truly understand how crippling all this has been and continues to presently be.
Note - I'm not 100% sure how NIL is impacting the game either too soon to get a handle on it. Some guys are making a ton of $ on it, how are the UofL basketball players doing with NIL?
Answer to Question 2 is obviously no, a few fans were delusional preseason for sure, I think they get it now LOL!
Shortcreek …..you are trying to judge individual talent, based on a very limited amount of witnessing team performance.
Obviously we disagree, and I am confident there is nothing that I can say that will convince you otherwise. Last night actually helps make my point; on one hand it was a much better team performance, with a few individuals exhibiting a level of talent that we have not witnessed in previous games. While we won handily, the level of competition and SEL’s poor shooting was more about their own deficiencies than it was about our own team. IOW, not a good game to judge UL’s talent, or team potential for advancing.
My point here, is individual talent is about potential based on a much larger body of work, and not what we have seen thus far. This is very difficult for UL a fans, as we have been confined to such a small amount of exposure. For me, Faulkner serves as one excellent example …..he started out injured, and has seen limited minutes in this early portion of the season …… yet in the last few games he is receiving increased minutes and has been demonstrating much of the talent that Mack anticipated when pursuing his services.
No, I have not seen anything at this point that would tell me this team qualifies as a Final Four candidate. However, I remain convinced the individual talent, the significant D1 experience and the depth is not what keeps this roster from that lofty goal …..rather its the individual performances that for the most part have failed to meet anywhere close to expectations.
Another example is Noah Locke; UF fans and coaching staff saw him as very talented, and his 40% 3 point shooting and high assist to turnover ratio testified as to why so many schools coveted his services before Mack’s pursuit won out. His 0-5 from distance last night is difficult to explain, as it was consistent with his struggles thus far at UL. Does this mean he is not talented? No, it just tells me and Coach Mack that he is struggling mightily, and he needs more time to regain his form.
I am as disappointed as you are thus far; but I do believe this team is much better than what we have seen so far. Let’s see how we perform in Rupp in a few weeks …..that will be a good test to see if the progress that I expect by that time, actually reveals itself.
Obviously we disagree, and I am confident there is nothing that I can say that will convince you otherwise. Last night actually helps make my point; on one hand it was a much better team performance, with a few individuals exhibiting a level of talent that we have not witnessed in previous games. While we won handily, the level of competition and SEL’s poor shooting was more about their own deficiencies than it was about our own team. IOW, not a good game to judge UL’s talent, or team potential for advancing.
My point here, is individual talent is about potential based on a much larger body of work, and not what we have seen thus far. This is very difficult for UL a fans, as we have been confined to such a small amount of exposure. For me, Faulkner serves as one excellent example …..he started out injured, and has seen limited minutes in this early portion of the season …… yet in the last few games he is receiving increased minutes and has been demonstrating much of the talent that Mack anticipated when pursuing his services.
No, I have not seen anything at this point that would tell me this team qualifies as a Final Four candidate. However, I remain convinced the individual talent, the significant D1 experience and the depth is not what keeps this roster from that lofty goal …..rather its the individual performances that for the most part have failed to meet anywhere close to expectations.
Another example is Noah Locke; UF fans and coaching staff saw him as very talented, and his 40% 3 point shooting and high assist to turnover ratio testified as to why so many schools coveted his services before Mack’s pursuit won out. His 0-5 from distance last night is difficult to explain, as it was consistent with his struggles thus far at UL. Does this mean he is not talented? No, it just tells me and Coach Mack that he is struggling mightily, and he needs more time to regain his form.
I am as disappointed as you are thus far; but I do believe this team is much better than what we have seen so far. Let’s see how we perform in Rupp in a few weeks …..that will be a good test to see if the progress that I expect by that time, actually reveals itself.
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