Hoops trial#2

[Thecycle27]

I think two things get us.

1) The testimony said the player was being paid on behalf of Jordon Fair. Since Fair is a representative of UofL that pretty much means for the University.

2) Johnson supposedly paid Bowen’s father $1700.00 of his own money. If that’s true that’s pretty damning.

As far as Rick and the trial, well that could go either way. I still believe he needed to go, but the process of his firing was botched horrible. May cost us a lot. We will see.

1) The player wasn't ever paid and the money discussed in the meeting was given to the AAU coach to push the player to Louisville. Where is the violation? Now if the AAU coach tells the NCAA he gave the money to the player at the request of Fair then Louisville/Pitino. IMO that isn't happening. Since the player was a 2020 it is pretty hard to say what would of happened in his recruitment.
2) This is a he/she said situation, is ther proof money changed hands? Johnson is obviously saying no or he wouldn't still be a coach.

Don't get me wrong both are an issue for Pitinio and Louisville the lawsuit is big ole poker game with both parties waiting on the river card.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

1) The player wasn't ever paid and the money discussed in the meeting was given to the AAU coach to push the player to Louisville. Where is the violation? Now if the AAU coach tells the NCAA he gave the money to the player at the request of Fair then Louisville/Pitino. IMO that isn't happening. Since the player was a 2020 it is pretty hard to say what would of happened in his recruitment.
2) This is a he/she said situation, is ther proof money changed hands? Johnson is obviously saying no or he wouldn't still be a coach.

Don't get me wrong both are an issue for Pitinio and Louisville the lawsuit is big ole poker game with both parties waiting on the river card.

Going to be interesting how the NCAA handles the Fair one i cant recall which Player or school was named with a situation pretty much like this. Where the money had been given to the AAU coach by Nike and they the NCAA said the player was good . This happened during the last season. I want to say it was Duke and Marvin Begely though . I could be wrong.

 

[CardsFirst]

I think two things get us.

1) The testimony said the player was being paid on behalf of Jordon Fair. Since Fair is a representative of UofL that pretty much means for the University.

2) Johnson supposedly paid Bowen’s father $1700.00 of his own money. If that’s true that’s pretty damning.

As far as Rick and the trial, well that could go either way. I still believe he needed to go, but the process of his firing was botched horrible. May cost us a lot. We will see.

1) The player wasn't ever paid and the money discussed in the meeting was given to the AAU coach to push the player to Louisville. Where is the violation? Now if the AAU coach tells the NCAA he gave the money to the player at the request of Fair then Louisville/Pitino. IMO that isn't happening. Since the player was a 2020 it is pretty hard to say what would of happened in his recruitment.
2) This is a he/she said situation, is ther proof money changed hands? Johnson is obviously saying no or he wouldn't still be a coach.

Don't get me wrong both are an issue for Pitinio and Louisville the lawsuit is big ole poker game with both parties waiting on the river card.

The word behalf in Fair’s case where the quote was “On behalf of Jordon Fair” means for Fair. And Bowen’s father as I recall did receive one payment. Although I could be wrong.

As for he/she said who do you think the NCAA will believe. I bet it’s not Johnson. And let’s hope there’s not a bank record of that withdrawal, because if there is it’s over. Now the FBI may not have followed that lead since it was slightly outside the scope of their investigation. Let’s hope.

Hope I’m wrong but we’re dealing with a corrupt unpredictable organization. So I have no clue what will happen. I also would have bet the house that they wouldn’t have taken our banner and we know how that turned out.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

The word behalf in Fair’s case where the quote was “On behalf of Jordon Fair” means for Fair. And Bowen’s father as I recall did receive one payment. Although I could be wrong.

As for he/she said who do you think the NCAA will believe. I bet it’s not Johnson. And let’s hope there’s not a bank record of that withdrawal, because if there is it’s over. Now the FBI may not have followed that lead since it was slightly outside the scope of their investigation. Let’s hope.

Hope I’m wrong but we’re dealing with a corrupt unpredictable organization. So I have no clue what will happen. I also would have bet the house that they wouldn’t have taken our banner and we know how that turned out.

I'm just preparing my mind for the worst

 

[CardsFirst]

The word behalf in Fair’s case where the quote was “On behalf of Jordon Fair” means for Fair. And Bowen’s father as I recall did receive one payment. Although I could be wrong.

As for he/she said who do you think the NCAA will believe. I bet it’s not Johnson. And let’s hope there’s not a bank record of that withdrawal, because if there is it’s over. Now the FBI may not have followed that lead since it was slightly outside the scope of their investigation. Let’s hope.

Hope I’m wrong but we’re dealing with a corrupt unpredictable organization. So I have no clue what will happen. I also would have bet the house that they wouldn’t have taken our banner and we know how that turned out.

I'm just preparing my mind for the worst

Me too

 

[shutzhund]

It is not irrelevant to the NCAA.

If it wasn't for the NCAA college basketball would be clean.

 

[zipp]

Personal testimony of anyone, unless corroborated, is the lightest of evidence. If the person had any motivation to exaggerate or to not tell the truth, it could be close to worthless.

But even if it has credibility, all it proves is that Fair knew. Doesn't prove anyone else in basketball or at U of L knew. It really doesn't even prove that Fair could have done anything about it except report it. When all is said and done, how many big time college basketball coaches will be demonstrated to have stood by and done nothing?

If that's the worst evidence against U of L, I wouldn't be as worried...

 

[CardsFirst]

Personal testimony of anyone, unless corroborated, is the lightest of evidence. If the person had any motivation to exaggerate or to not tell the truth, it could be close to worthless.

But even if it has credibility, all it proves is that Fair knew. Doesn't prove anyone else in basketball or at U of L knew. It really doesn't even prove that Fair could have done anything about it except report it. When all is said and done, how many big time college basketball coaches will be demonstrated to have stood by and done nothing?

If that's the worst evidence against U of L, I wouldn't be as worried...

Corroborated like being taped? I pretty sure that’s pretty credible. And none of that applies to the NCAA, as they make the rules up as they go.

 

[zipp]

Corroborated like being taped? I pretty sure that’s pretty credible. And none of that applies to the NCAA, as they make the rules up as they go.

I don't recall exactly, but I don't think that "tape" had much if anything on it from Fair except acknowledgement that he was in the room. IMO he was a bit player; I don't think he orchestrated anything...

 

[CardsFirst]

Corroborated like being taped? I pretty sure that’s pretty credible. And none of that applies to the NCAA, as they make the rules up as they go.

I don't recall exactly, but I don't think that "tape" had much if anything on it from Fair except acknowledgement that he was in the room. IMO he was a bit player; I don't think he orchestrated anything...

It was a little more than acknowledging it was confirming he would get the documents in order, but I do agree he didn’t orchestrate anything. I don’t think the NCAA will car he was in the room and had knowledge. That’s enough for the NCAA.

 

[Knucklehank1]

It was a little more than acknowledging it was confirming he would get the documents in order, but I do agree he didn’t orchestrate anything. I don’t think the NCAA will car he was in the room and had knowledge. That’s enough for the NCAA.

Supposedly on the tape he says something to the affect of “all this needs to be on down low since (we) are going on probation”

 

[Villebandit]

Hope Neeli and Vince are wise enough to draw this shit out as long as possible. They’ll hammer us if we give-in quick. Wait and let their golden schools get implicated further and we will escape with them.

They cannot and will not punish everyone and everyone is involved. We’ve just got to make sure we aren’t the first they get a shot at.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Hope Neeli and Vince are wise enough to draw this shit out as long as possible. They’ll hammer us if we give-in quick. Wait and let their golden schools get implicated further and we will escape with them.

They cannot and will not punish everyone and everyone is involved. We’ve just got to make sure we aren’t the first they get a shot at.

Except us we are going to get it dude don't sike yourself into thinking otherwise

 

[CardsFirst]

It was a little more than acknowledging it was confirming he would get the documents in order, but I do agree he didn’t orchestrate anything. I don’t think the NCAA will car he was in the room and had knowledge. That’s enough for the NCAA.

Supposedly on the tape he says something to the affect of “all this needs to be on down low since (we) are going on probation”

Yep your correct that was it.

 

[Villebandit]

I see them getting us, bro. Already being on probation is their out but I hope we fight like hell. They can’t and won’t punish everyone for the pay for play. Best case we get a pass with everyone else. Trust in Neeli to fight. Don’t see her laying down.

 

[zipp]

It was a little more than acknowledging it was confirming he would get the documents in order, but I do agree he didn’t orchestrate anything. I don’t think the NCAA will car he was in the room and had knowledge. That’s enough for the NCAA.

Here's the complete set of references to Fair (Coach-1) in the original Complaint...

"Coach-1 agreed, stating 'we gotta be very low key'..."

"Coach-1 then discussed ensuring that Player-11 ultimately signed with DAWKINS upon entering the NBA, and Coach-1 explained that '[Coach-2] is not a guy to have his own agent already set up' so that it would fall upon Coach-1 and another assistant coach at University-6 to steer the athletes to certain advisors..."​

The italicized parts are the only direct quotes attributed to Fair by the FBI agent. Anything else we hear is BS or someone guessing...

LINK

 

[CardsFirst]

It was a little more than acknowledging it was confirming he would get the documents in order, but I do agree he didn’t orchestrate anything. I don’t think the NCAA will car he was in the room and had knowledge. That’s enough for the NCAA.

Here's the complete set of references to Fair (Coach-1) in the original Complaint...

"Coach-1 agreed, stating 'we gotta be very low key'..."

"Coach-1 then discussed ensuring that Player-11 ultimately signed with DAWKINS upon entering the NBA, and Coach-1 explained that '[Coach-2] is not a guy to have his own agent already set up' so that it would fall upon Coach-1 and another assistant coach at University-6 to steer the athletes to certain advisors..."​

The italicized parts are the only direct quotes attributed to Fair by the FBI agent. Anything else we hear is BS or someone guessing...

That doesn’t mention when he was directed to get the formal documents for the school in order. I’ll have to look that up, which I don’t have time to do right now. But the comment he made “We’ve got to keep it very low”, well that’s bad because it proves he was aware of the payoff and he would be required to report that activity. Just don’t see this going well for us, but hope I’m wrong

 

[zipp]

That doesn’t mention when he was directed to get the formal documents for the school in order. I’ll have to look that up, which I don’t have time to do right now. But the comment he made “We’ve got to keep it very low”, well that’s bad because it proves he was aware of the payoff and he would be required to report that activity. Just don’t see this going well for us, but hope I’m wrong

Two questions...

When would you NOT have to keep something like this "low"? And why was "keeping it low" only necessary at that point?

This is sorta reminiscent of the remark by Ramsey's former assistant about deleting emails. A person's paranoia doesn't indicate or escalate a crime. Just because you thought the speed limit was 25 while you were going 40 doesn't make you guilty of anything.

As I said about his assistant, it may shed light on her character. But an offhand and maybe uninformed remark doesn't have to mean anything. Any reference, for example, to already being on probation is totally irrelevant IMO. We weren't necessarily on probation when the remark was made--it doesn't matter what Jordan Fair thought...

 

[CardsFirst]

That doesn’t mention when he was directed to get the formal documents for the school in order. I’ll have to look that up, which I don’t have time to do right now. But the comment he made “We’ve got to keep it very low”, well that’s bad because it proves he was aware of the payoff and he would be required to report that activity. Just don’t see this going well for us, but hope I’m wrong

Two questions...

When would you NOT have to keep something like this "low"? And why was "keeping it low" only necessary at that point?

This is sorta reminiscent of the remark by Ramsey's former assistant about deleting emails. A person's paranoia doesn't indicate or escalate a crime. Just because you thought the speed limit was 25 while you were going 40 doesn't make you guilty of anything.

As I said about his assistant, it may shed light on her character. But an offhand and maybe uninformed remark doesn't have to mean anything. Any reference, for example, to already being on probation is totally irrelevant IMO. We weren't necessarily on probation when the remark was made--it doesn't matter what Jordan Fair thought...

Adidas reps stated they had to be careful because of the pending probation issue Fair agreed. And it’s hardly irrelevant given the further penalties and or the fact UofL was already under a microscope. They also mentioned that CRP wasn’t aware didn’t use his name, but it was clear he was referring to CRP. You’re right what Fair thoughts may not be considered in a courtroom, but it will to the NCAA. Everything that took place on that tape if the NCAA gets it will be considered.

 

[Cue Card]

Adidas reps stated they had to be careful because of the pending probation issue Fair agreed. And it’s hardly irrelevant given the further penalties and or the fact UofL was already under a microscope. They also mentioned that CRP wasn’t aware didn’t use his name, but it was clear he was referring to CRP. You’re right what Fair thoughts may not be considered in a courtroom, but it will to the NCAA. Everything that took place on that tape if the NCAA gets it will be considered.

The NCAA doesn't need the tape. They (and the public) have access to the transcripts which were released by the FBI. A google search is all they need to do. UofL is F$$K'ed. The NCAA will make an example out of UofL in order to save face for not doing their own jobs for years.

 

[CardsFirst]

Adidas reps stated they had to be careful because of the pending probation issue Fair agreed. And it’s hardly irrelevant given the further penalties and or the fact UofL was already under a microscope. They also mentioned that CRP wasn’t aware didn’t use his name, but it was clear he was referring to CRP. You’re right what Fair thoughts may not be considered in a courtroom, but it will to the NCAA. Everything that took place on that tape if the NCAA gets it will be considered.

The NCAA doesn't need the tape. They (and the public) have access to the transcripts which were released by the FBI. A google search is all they need to do. UofL is F$$K'ed. The NCAA will make an example out of UofL in order to save face for not doing their own jobs for years.

No argument here. My point is they can and will use what they want too. And punish as they see fit. And your last sentence is so true. They’ve known about this for years and chose to look the other way.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Dan Wetzel‏Verified account@DanWetzel
Christian Dawkins when discussing Deandre Ayton says on tape, “I talked to Sean (Miller), Sean’s the one that fronted that deal.”

11:50 AM - 29 Apr 2019

Dan Wetzel‏Verified account@DanWetzel
Also on tape, Richardson says LSU coach Will Wade offered him a job to help with recruitment of Naz Reid. Per Richardson, Wade said, “look, there’s a deal in place. I got $300,000 for him.” Richardson, “I said, give me half and I’ll make sure the kid goes there.”

11:48 AM - 29 Apr 2019

 

[Thecycle27]

Two questions...

When would you NOT have to keep something like this "low"? And why was "keeping it low" only necessary at that point?

This is sorta reminiscent of the remark by Ramsey's former assistant about deleting emails. A person's paranoia doesn't indicate or escalate a crime. Just because you thought the speed limit was 25 while you were going 40 doesn't make you guilty of anything.

As I said about his assistant, it may shed light on her character. But an offhand and maybe uninformed remark doesn't have to mean anything. Any reference, for example, to already being on probation is totally irrelevant IMO. We weren't necessarily on probation when the remark was made--it doesn't matter what Jordan Fair thought...

With what we know today someone tell me what NCAA violation was committed? Shoe companies can pay AAU's. Shoe companies can funnel players to particular schools. The player never received the money.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

With what we know today someone tell me what NCAA violation was committed? Shoe companies can pay AAU's. Shoe companies can funnel players to particular schools. The player never received the money.

Except when those same accusations against U of L are brought forward for punishment i'm sure their will be a noted violation .

 

[Thecycle27]

Except when those same accusations against U of L are brought forward for punishment i'm sure their will be a noted violation .

I understand, but the entire system is built on shoe companies paying AAU and funneling players. This is too wide spread, there is not any players that weren't part of the AAU system and a high percentage made their college decision because of the shoe affiliation.

 

[CardsFirst]

Two questions...

When would you NOT have to keep something like this "low"? And why was "keeping it low" only necessary at that point?

This is sorta reminiscent of the remark by Ramsey's former assistant about deleting emails. A person's paranoia doesn't indicate or escalate a crime. Just because you thought the speed limit was 25 while you were going 40 doesn't make you guilty of anything.

As I said about his assistant, it may shed light on her character. But an offhand and maybe uninformed remark doesn't have to mean anything. Any reference, for example, to already being on probation is totally irrelevant IMO. We weren't necessarily on probation when the remark was made--it doesn't matter what Jordan Fair thought...

With what we know today someone tell me what NCAA violation was committed? Shoe companies can pay AAU's. Shoe companies can funnel players to particular schools. The player never received the money.

1) Jordon Fair new or was aware of what was going on and didn’t report it. That’s a violation.

2) Johnson has been accused of paying Bowen’s father $1700.00. If proven that’s a major violation.

 

[zipp]

1) Jordon Fair new or was aware of what was going on and didn’t report it. That’s a violation.

2) Johnson has been accused of paying Bowen’s father $1700.00. If proven that’s a major violation.

There needs to be more in the way of facts produced. IIRC Bowen's crowd was pi$$ed that the money was slow to materialize. Do we know that money actually made it into Bowen's hands, or was it just promised or anticipated?

Also, what was the proof of the latter? Was there a text message or anything besides personal testimony?

Lack of hard evidence is exactly what's maintaining the status quo for everyone...

 

[CardsFirst]

1) Jordon Fair new or was aware of what was going on and didn’t report it. That’s a violation.

2) Johnson has been accused of paying Bowen’s father $1700.00. If proven that’s a major violation.

There needs to be more in the way of facts produced. IIRC Bowen's crowd was pi$$ed that the money was slow to materialize. Do we know that money actually made it into Bowen's hands, or was it just promised or anticipated?

Also, what was the proof of the latter? Was there a text message or anything besides personal testimony?

Lack of hard evidence is exactly what's maintaining the status quo for everyone...

You clearly do not understand or refuse to understand how the NCAA works. They have a good enough witness in Bowen’s father. That’s all the NCAA needs. During stripper gate one of the women said they found us guilty basically for moral issues. That’s not even a penalty yet they found fit to use that verbiage.

Proof this isn’t court it’s the NCAA.

 

[zipp]

You clearly do not understand or refuse to understand how the NCAA works. They have a good enough witness in Bowen’s father. That’s all the NCAA needs. During stripper gate one of the women said they found us guilty basically for moral issues. That’s not even a penalty yet they found fit to use that verbiage.

Proof this isn’t court it’s the NCAA.

What the NCAA does and decides has to withstand a legal challenge. Just because the new regime didn't follow that course of action the last time doesn't mean otherwise.

That's why you're on probation and the banners were removed...

 

[CardsFirst]

You clearly do not understand or refuse to understand how the NCAA works. They have a good enough witness in Bowen’s father. That’s all the NCAA needs. During stripper gate one of the women said they found us guilty basically for moral issues. That’s not even a penalty yet they found fit to use that verbiage.

Proof this isn’t court it’s the NCAA.

What the NCAA does and decides has to withstand a legal challenge. Just because the new regime didn't follow that course of action the last time doesn't mean otherwise.

That's why you're on probation and the banners were removed...

Will see what comes of it, but I’m preparing for the worse. I hope we fight it tooth and nail and it it gets to court, but that doesn’t mean the NCAA will do anything different than usual. And even if it were to end up in court it could last years. And that’s if a judge would even hear the case.

 

[zipp]

Too often we hear that the NCAA can do anything it wants because it's a "voluntary organization"...

LINK

LINK

 

[CardsFirst]

Too often we hear that the NCAA can do anything it wants because it's a "voluntary organization"...

LINK

LINK

That gets incredibly murky. Especially when comes to a court interfering with an association.

Seems to favor the association in many respects.

It’s late and all I did was a cursory run at it.,

 

[zipp]

That gets incredibly murky. Especially when comes to a court interfering with an association.

Seems to favor the association in many respects.

It’s late and all I did was a cursory run at it.,

I didn't intend for anyone to deep dive the info (although that's fine). The point is these issues aren't black-and-white. If it was that simple, each link would say "whatever the organization wants..."

 

[Thecycle27]

1) Jordon Fair new or was aware of what was going on and didn’t report it. That’s a violation.

2) Johnson has been accused of paying Bowen’s father $1700.00. If proven that’s a major violation.

What exactly was Fair aware of? Adidas paying a AAU program? Not a violation, it is allowed by the NCAA. Adidas funneling a player to Louisville that may or may not of happened in 2020? Money that never made it to the player. The act of pushing a player to a college isn't a violation. It happens everyday. That is what we know.

If Fair admits to the NCAA that he directed or instructed Adidas to pay the player then you are right but right now there is nothing.

Johnson is coaching at LaSalle, I think it is safe to say he denied paying anyone. Again that is what we know today.

That is exactly why Louisville has to force the NCAA to prove what violations occurred.