Please, get rid of this cancer that is eating away at the Louisville Cardinal Basketball team . Fans have followed them for many years. Our joy of watching Cardinal basketball has been ripped away from us. This must be changed now. I would ask people to NOT make this about race. It is not. It is not about that. We want a winning coach no mater who he is!
Fire Payne
- Thread starter FredCard
- Start date
Payne didn't show up in a vacuum. Getting rid of him is not ridding yourself of the problems plaguing this program. You have to get rid of what delivered Kenny Payne to us, what made Payne our best option or at least what made him acceptable.
Look around. The problems are a lot bigger than this guy...
Look around. The problems are a lot bigger than this guy...
Jurich is not coming back.
Pitino is not coming back.
UofL basketball is not coming back until one Kenneth Payneful is gone.
Good chance another fire KP thread will start after the Virginia game.
It is highly unlikely that is happening.
Let’s see if the roster improves and go from there.
I could start a thread after each game how god awful the players are but it doesn’t matter.
It is highly unlikely that is happening.
Let’s see if the roster improves and go from there.
I could start a thread after each game how god awful the players are but it doesn’t matter.
What are some items you are referencing here? Keep in mind Hot Tub Time Machine was just a movie. A very bad one.
Sending out the same amateurs to fix a recurring problem ain't fixing the problem. I imagine one or two fans last year said "anyone's better than Chris Mack."
I'd start analyzing our situation by having U of L address why we're investing about 15% less in basketball annually, after adjusting for inflation, than we were the year before we joined the ACC. That's a ten year span (2013 v 2023) and dates back before we were banking Adidas money as well.
I argue one big reason we have Kenny Payne is that he was relatively cheap. $3 million for a big time basketball program to spend on a coach ain't much. Not to mention we have an AD trainee running things and people with no track record at U of L over him. In case anyone's forgotten, the Prez's last gig was at Towson State.
We have amateurs and lightweights trying to run what used to be a major basketball program, and with results to show for it...
I tend not to worry about a coaches price tag. Throwing money at average coaches doesn’t make any sense either. The reality is Louisville basketball had hall of fame coaches. There aren’t many of those guys that bounce in today’s world. If they do they have to be coming into great situation and leaving a bad situation. They aren’t taking lateral moves into a mess.
Mack wasn’t a bad choice but it played out poorly. It is hard to argue that he wasn’t a hot commodity. KP was a reach——high risk-high reward type of hire. Who was interested in the 6M-8M range? More than likely the coaches that were interested were in the 3M-4M range. Anyone looks better at this point but that doesn’t mean is would actually work.
Mack wasn’t a bad choice but it played out poorly. It is hard to argue that he wasn’t a hot commodity. KP was a reach——high risk-high reward type of hire. Who was interested in the 6M-8M range? More than likely the coaches that were interested were in the 3M-4M range. Anyone looks better at this point but that doesn’t mean is would actually work.
Better players ?
He couldnt coach good players period.
Open your eyes
Pegues would have had a least 15 to 16 wins with these players.
You are suggesting to get rid of people that just arrived? The AD, the Prez, and not sure who else? Or are you saying other people are making these decisions? Who do we need to get rid of?
This wouldn't be the reality we are living in. Josh and that president are not going anywhere anytime soon they just got here.
Maybe I'm not following who the amateurs and lightweights are you are referencing?
I'm not advocating anyone be fired. I'm strongly suggesting they be held accountable.
At the moment, the only accountability I'm hearing outside of Payne is for Heird to fire him. That's nowhere near the extent of Heird's and U of L's accountabilities as far as the sorry state of this basketball program.
Five years out from Jurich and Pitino, current U of L management owns 98% of this dumpster fire. And Kenny Payne didn't light the match...
At the moment, the only accountability I'm hearing outside of Payne is for Heird to fire him. That's nowhere near the extent of Heird's and U of L's accountabilities as far as the sorry state of this basketball program.
Five years out from Jurich and Pitino, current U of L management owns 98% of this dumpster fire. And Kenny Payne didn't light the match...
Can you provide an example of how you are holding somebody from UofL accountable, and for who? What is it you are wanting somebody to do?
I'm just trying to follow you and hear you out.
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It’s not about me personally. One guy unless he’s a multimillionaire isn’t doing anything on his own. It’s a fanbase and community mindset, and I see hardly anything being discussed except when Payne gets fired. That’s incredibly shortsighted IMO and just feeds into the status quo.
After 5+ years of a spiral down, U of L should be openly questioned about how it’s managing the men’s basketball program which is/was central to our existence as a department. I’ve already presented one major issue which is its financial support. Why does it take a back seat to every other sport of consequence? We all know it’s also been that long since we won an NCAA tournament game. We know how far down U of L has fallen across a spectrum of indicators.
None of this is news. I’m asking for a realization of how deep our problems go when you’re looking for solutions. Again, this place was a bleep show before Payne got here. Just firing him ain’t fixing anything lasting…
College basketball has changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Hall of fame coaches have said I am done with this current world.
I think this is far more difficult of a situation given the current landscape. People think it is a quick fix which can happen for a season but doesn’t mean the program is fixed.
There just aren’t many guys that can handle this job. It is a really small list and I don’t think any would be interested.
I think this is far more difficult of a situation given the current landscape. People think it is a quick fix which can happen for a season but doesn’t mean the program is fixed.
There just aren’t many guys that can handle this job. It is a really small list and I don’t think any would be interested.
Let U of L and Josh Heird stand in front of a microphone and say that. I want to hear how deep they think their problems go, the mistakes they’ve made, and what their challenges are.
In the absence of that honesty, I think they’re willing to slide along with the notion it’s all about finding the right head coach…
In the absence of that honesty, I think they’re willing to slide along with the notion it’s all about finding the right head coach…
UofL was accountable.
They fired the person who was responsible for starting this.
Our men's basketball program is a dumpster fire and there needs to be a major overhaul in THAT program. As much as I like Kenny Payne personally, he is proving with each and every game that he IS NOT a major basketball program head coach. Yeah, I know it's "only" one season but the evidence is there and immediate action needs to be taken. And, please, don't tell me that we "don't have the money" because if we need the money it can, and will, be found.
GO CARDS!!!
GO CARDS!!!
But maybe the right coach could turn it around overnight? Hear me out.
Let's say next month, events transpire very quickly and something is worked out for KP to maybe stay on as a assistant coach? Heird then shocks the world when he hires Jay Wright as the new head coach.
Ellis, James, Lands and Traynor come back and are joined by three top level transfers including a point guard. Cards sign the big 7 footer and another high level recruit to go along with the guys already committed.
Suddenly, Louisville has a complete team, with Jay Wright at the helm. Would next season be the biggest turnaround in college hoops history?
Isn't this something Tom Jurich would pull off? Of course this scenario is highly unlikely, especially with Jay Wright, but another highly regarded coach could transform the program overnight
It's just a difficult thing to accomplish. Luck has a lot to do with it and we know good luck and Louisville haven't gone together well in awhile. But I think a winning season next year is possible, especially in this new era of instant transfers.
We just need a energetic, proven winner at head coach with a plan on how to resurrect the floundering Louisville basketball program. Someone like what Rick Pitino did when he took over the reigns of the Cards from Denny Crum.
No half measures or we're going to see mediocrity for a good while.
He may not have lit the match but he is the fuel that's making it burn right now..
We were ranked #1 in the country 3 years ago under Mack..
Your basketball program is hot garbage. If the worst season in the history of P5 conferences isn’t convincing you of that, you my friend have blinders on…
Sure miracles happen, just like one of us winning a Powerball. Is that how U of L is now managing what was once an elite basketball program?…
You’re making excuses just like the Payne defenders do. For different reasons, both camps are delusional…
You would like to think that simply hiring a new coach wouldn't change anything. I hate to tell ya, but, just like hiring Brohm for football has re-energized the fanbase a similar hire in basketball would have the same effect.
If K Pain is somehow back next year you may get your wish of a totally broken irreparable basketball program that will never make it back to prominence because the fanbase will turn its back on the program and not comeback.
You're right about one thing, it's not just the current situation that's putting the program under. It's the effects of the last 5 -6 years of scandal fatigue, controversy. And the NCAA keeping a black cloud over the program for so long.
Apparently it is. All of these people could come clean and beg for forgiveness. We destroyed the program with stupid decisions. And some will feel better for it.
But it wouldn't change the job that needs to be done. Hire a quality coach and maybe, just maybe, a miracle can occur. Staying the course with or without accountability, will not win back the fans.
Zipp and I have had many disagreements but I completely agree here. I firmly believe that Heird and Payne need to have a concrete plan to get basketball where it needs to be and they need a very open and honest press conference to discuss the plan. It should include what the program needs, what the expectations for Payne are, and how they plan to keep season ticket holders in the fold. All season Heird has largely been silent and Payne has essentially blamed everything on the guys he inherited. Without transparency and accountability we are screwed and the money will continue to dry up.
We HOPE that Brohm gets us back in football, no one more than me.
But let’s not smear the differences between football and men’s basketball. We made a bowl game last year. Attendance is/was off 20%.
In basketball, we now aspire to be where football was under Satterfield. Attendance, money, wins and losses. Mediocre—which by the way gets Payne ANOTHER year next season.
I mean, how sorry is that?
Payne has been the cherry on top. No way has he brought everything down. The regime in charge at U of L own all of this including Payne’s part…
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This year is rock bottom for the Louisville basketball program. As we have all said this was a 5 year decline to get to this point.
Let’s talk about the path out. Assume KP is coming back.
I agree it would help if they laid out their plan to get out but it is worthless if it isn’t executed.
Set the standard. Then clearly define the standard for players-coaches.
Hold everyone accountable in the basketball program to that standard. Get rid of anyone not in line with that standard. No current player returns without commitment to that standard. At any point they don’t meet that standard they are gone.
KP has told everyone they are going to get better players. That is priority 1. Land the right players no excuses.
For KP loving the players now has to become tough love that may mean kicking kids off that don’t met the standard.
His biggest mistake was not setting the standard this year. He can’t have captains that come in overweight.
Let’s talk about the path out. Assume KP is coming back.
I agree it would help if they laid out their plan to get out but it is worthless if it isn’t executed.
Set the standard. Then clearly define the standard for players-coaches.
Hold everyone accountable in the basketball program to that standard. Get rid of anyone not in line with that standard. No current player returns without commitment to that standard. At any point they don’t meet that standard they are gone.
KP has told everyone they are going to get better players. That is priority 1. Land the right players no excuses.
For KP loving the players now has to become tough love that may mean kicking kids off that don’t met the standard.
His biggest mistake was not setting the standard this year. He can’t have captains that come in overweight.
How do you know he didn't ? He's talked about setting standards and changing the culture ad nauseam this season in press conferences and interviews.
The guy just doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
Don’t disagree with all that but there is no doubt he had a team captain who was and is clearly out of shape and yet he continued to play him. Also despite talking ad nauseam about effort and pride it clearly has resonated. 90% of playing good defense is effort.
I have actually changed my mind about firing KP. Yes, I wanted him fired earlier in the season when things really weren't changing, wasn't seeing this thing called "culture". But we let it played it so in reality this season is history. I know it happened but I want it out of my memory. We move to next season, see who goes, see who comes, but KP will be on a very, very short lease. 10 games at tops. He has to know that, Josh needs to prepare for that. Payne has been blaming the players he has. We almost have to see if there's any truth in that, mainly because of his contract. Starting over now with a new coach, doesn't give that coach a fair chance to build, rebuild, whatever so we are setback again, only don't know if that's even possible.
So he gets 10 games next season to prove himself. If he fails, the we lame-duck it the rest of the season? Better to make the change as soon as this season ends.
How can you be serious about management laying down the law for the basketball program when you cut its budget (in real terms) every year, and it’s down 40% in five years? How in any way is that paying for performance?
What it’s doing is talking outta both sides of your mouth. It’s also making it impossible for ANY coach to come here and be successful.
Again, we look at and talk about the wrong stuff. And the spiral down continues…
What it’s doing is talking outta both sides of your mouth. It’s also making it impossible for ANY coach to come here and be successful.
Again, we look at and talk about the wrong stuff. And the spiral down continues…
Oh I'm in total agreement with you. K Pain turned Hercules into the Pillsbury Dough Boy
Isn't there a clause in any contract that a coach can be fired for behavior that embarrassed or harm the reputation of the the institution? The past year would have been universally classified as an embarrassment of epic proportion for UL by anyone you ask.
In case anyone is curious about some important benchmarks internally... Check out the difference between the two basketball programs. All these values are inflation adjusted BTW.
No program has been raided like men's basketball. The 2024 budgeting process starts shortly, and Josh Heird has another opportunity to address this...
No program has been raided like men's basketball. The 2024 budgeting process starts shortly, and Josh Heird has another opportunity to address this...
No then you see changes, whether KP is fired and Danny Manning takes over. We don't know if this is just Kenny's shit show, the players fault, everyone's fault, Josh Heird's fault, cleaning and starting over is not practical, financially or otherwise.
Also just saying if you weren't going to fire him at 4-18 or whatever, you weren't expecting him to make a miraculous turnaround, the season was already over. If we decided to let him finish it out no matter what then I'm not sure firing him now makes any more sense. He's got a few guys coming in, so we fire him and they go elsewhere and then no new coach is going to bring in much better if we get rid of everyone. Not sure a Bill Musselman will be beating our door down. A new coach is probably not going to want to work with some of these players and realistically who wants to come to a team that was 4-30.
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This is quite an incredible imagination you have here.
Hey we're still Louisville a top 7-8 program of all time,. We have some of the best facilities in the country, with great fan support when we have a great product to cheer for. There are PLENTY coaches that would be confident in coming here and being successful right away with NIL and the Portal..
