Elephant in the room

[OmegaCard]

it's not so much of an accent as a completely different dialect...Mexicans think Puerto Ricans can't speak proper Spanish, can't even understand them at times...Spaniards think they are all wrong.

Point is, when a group of people are isolated they come up with their own culture, that includes unique language...there does have to be some common ground however, and it's important for any person who is trying to assimilate to a different culture (read: south Florida black to metropolitan college white) to adopt similar speech patterns for the purpose of improved communications.

This takes time and practice and it's really flippin hard to change a lifetime of speech patterns, of course that assumes he even wants too...he could very well have a attitude of "if you want to understand me, you just need to learn how to understand me"...and for very good reason, he has a skill set that makes him very marketable as it is...why go through the trouble if it isn't necessary.

Yeah, I'm a liberal.

Are you saying black south Florida is another country? It's the same educational system, unlike Mexico and Puerto Rico. Sure every area has differences, but I don't think we're talking cultures.

 

[wreckcard#22]

Oh, I get I think I get it now. You are an idiot, and you embrace your idiocy and think your idiocy should be accepted by all because your idiocy is a part of your race or cultural background? Got it.

Good lord man, your the one trying to say we should all sound the same...for the record, I think Lamar should, and likely is, trying to improve his presentation regarding public speaking. You said something idiotic and generalized and I made you aware. do with this as you will.

 

[wreckcard#22]

Are you saying black south Florida is another country? It's the same educational system, unlike Mexico and Puerto Rico. Sure every area has differences, but I don't think we're talking cultures.

Well, we can disagree on that. I think it qualifies, agree that Mexico and Puerto Rico is an example that has many more differences...just relating dialect to this conversation. dialect and regional accents are on the same continuum of speech morphology. so, you may be right and this is a judgment call. I think the point still can stand as relevant.

 

[TDredbird]

Any analysis, talk of culture or race, is simply nonsense thought up by people who feel offended by being corrected and do not wish to put forth the effort to conform to societal norms. Being well-spoken and articulate is not a black or white thing. Either you are an effective communicator or you are not. Go tell Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones that they "need to talk more black". If being well-spoken is a white thing, do people in trailor parks and Portland speak like they are going yachting on the weekend? Implying that communicating effectively has anything to do with race or that one should not have to correct inaccuracies, grammar, etc. because that is who they are is in itself racist. You know the saying, you can take the person out of the trailer park/ghetto, but you can't take the trailer park/ghetto out of the person. Is that where we are? No standard for excellence? No goal to acheive? How low are we going to continue to lower the bar to accommodate those that don't want to put forth the effort?

This goes back to what Coach Walz was ranting about. The same people that justify poor communication skills as being cultural or racial, are the same ones that claim standardized tests benefit one race over another - as if math, sciences and reading and writing are racially biased. You either know the right answer or you don't. But what do we do? We lower the bar so everyone is happy with their score and adjust our entire educational curriculum to teach toward prepping for these tests which should be nothing more than a barometer. Schools systems start focusing all resources on finding ways to elevate their scores for fear of funding or other consequences being levied.

"Don't correct me, this is a message board not an english essay!"

Bar lowered.

"Don't criticize, that is his racial culture"

Bar lowered.

Making excuses for ANYONE of any race or culture for not meeting an expectation is the ultimate example of deep-seeded racism because you imply that someone of another race or culture is not capable of meeting those expectations and that we are not all equal underneath the skin.

The reason you go to a university and not a trade school is to get a rounded education and exposure to culture. If you are college educated, you should be expected to act and communicate accordingly. Dragging down an institution of higher learning to your level because you don't want to put forth the effort is simply laziness at the highest degree and paving the way for others like you to do the same.

FWIW, I don't have a problem understanding Lamar, he just mumbles too much. Ed Orgeron, however...good lord!

Not trying to interrupt your thesis, but the fact remains that ALOT of educated people are just not very good public speakers.

 

[KingHenry_X]

But if you don't think that not having enough to eat or, having a stable home life don't negatively affect your pathway to success, well I'm not sure what to tell you.

Here is where your argument loses traction. Let's not conjure up extreme examples here like not having enough to eat because the case we are using here are college athletes who obviously find enough to eat to make it through a football practice. Unstable home life is more applicable. What you are describing are obstacles, or challenges. All people, from all backgrounds face some form of challenges to overcome and persevere through. Obstacles do not force one to make a wrong decision. When you begin to list off factors that "influence" wrong decisions over right ones, you are making excuses. Especially when it comes to their focus on academics. The reality is people give athletes a pass, because they are entertaining. And then they justify it with every example they can think of instead of just being real and pointing out the deficiencies. And if you do, the crybaby choir comes a calling.

Reading, writing, arithmetic, and a basic knowledge of physical sciences are taught throughout from first grade into college. Your skin tone doesnt determine your ability to comprehend them, neither does your culture. You have the choice to learn these concepts and apply them. If you choose not to, you are responsible, not your unstable home life, not your race, not your culture. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact, and no excuse or sob story changes that fact.

So if one chooses to talk, act, or express themselves in any way that does not represent an educated individual, it is their choice alone and any criticisms are warrented. Sorry snowflakes, but safe spaces don't exist in life. If you interviewed for a position and didn't get it because you answered "they was" or "I be" to the questions you were "axed", it wasn't because of your skin color or culture or because you weren't "white enough". It was because you presented yourself as uneducated and unprofessional and unwilling to act either when it mattered, which may be an indication of your intelligence - or lack thereof. And any disagreement with that perspective is a willingness to lower the bar so that everyone gets a trophy.

 

[OmegaCard]

Not trying to interrupt your thesis, but the fact remains that ALOT of educated people are just not very good public speakers.

Unlike NFL QB, most of them aren't expected to give speeches. I think King is saying it's attitude(correct me if I'm wrong). Whether peer pressure, or that's all they hear. Rich or poor, I strongly doubt that's how their English class teaches it.

 

[KingHenry_X]

Not trying to interrupt your thesis, but the fact remains that ALOT of educated people are just not very good public speakers.

Not everyone is. Can they communicate like educated adults or do they use terms like "we be..."?

 

[KingHenry_X]

Unlike NFL QB, most of them aren't expected to give speeches. I think King is saying it's attitude(correct me if I'm wrong). Whether peer pressure, or that's all they hear. Rich or poor, I strongly doubt that's how their English class teaches it.

Exactly what I am saying. It is a choice. Not who you are based on race or culture. You either choose to sound like you've learned something or you don't.

 

[KingHenry_X]

Well, we can disagree on that. I think it qualifies, agree that Mexico and Puerto Rico is an example that has many more differences...just relating dialect to this conversation. dialect and regional accents are on the same continuum of speech morphology. so, you may be right and this is a judgment call. I think the point still can stand as relevant.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Without delving deeper into this can of worms, there is peer pressure to talk and act a certain way so as to not look like you are caving in to "the man".

It's why Al Sharpton said Obama was not "authentic".

Gee I hope this post doesn't offend somebody and get deleted.

 

[KingHenry_X]

Well, your peeps don't influence public opinion nor do they influence an interviewer or boss determining your promotability.

But at least you are addressing the truth, rollem, and not conjuring up loads of bs about race and culture.

Good luck on all that "keeping it real".

 

[wreckcard#22]

Well, your peeps don't influence public opinion nor do they influence an interviewer or boss determining your promotability.

But at least you are addressing the truth, rollem, and not conjuring up loads of bs about race and culture.

Good luck on all that "keeping it real".

Ok man, Race and culture are irrelevant... whatever helps you sleep...I tried but you're still an idiot. I don't think Lamar needs to worry about you interviewing him... thank God for that.

 

[JohnKBA]

I work with some really smart and successful people from Eastern and Central KY who sound like Cletus the slack jawed yokel from The Simpsons, with one exception - they have extensive vocabularies and use proper grammar and phraseology. They can't do much about their drawls, but they do make sure to educate themselves so they show well in front of clients. I'm not sure I'd expect the same from a college athlete though - let's face it, most of these guys at major schools playing Football and Basketball aren't taking wizard level courses. There are exceptions of course, but I don't think we should put excessive expectations on college athletes. Lamar is gonna play football for a living - let him focus on football.

 

[OmegaCard]

Well, we can disagree on that. I think it qualifies, agree that Mexico and Puerto Rico is an example that has many more differences...just relating dialect to this conversation. dialect and regional accents are on the same continuum of speech morphology. so, you may be right and this is a judgment call. I think the point still can stand as relevant.

I'm not sure you can have different cultures with a standardized educational system.

LJ will make a whole lot more money speaking correctly. It would be well worth his time.

 

[BPGhost]

Here is where your argument loses traction. Let's not conjure up extreme examples here like not having enough to eat because the case we are using here are college athletes who obviously find enough to eat to make it through a football practice. Unstable home life is more applicable. What you are describing are obstacles, or challenges. All people, from all backgrounds face some form of challenges to overcome and persevere through. Obstacles do not force one to make a wrong decision. When you begin to list off factors that "influence" wrong decisions over right ones, you are making excuses. Especially when it comes to their focus on academics. The reality is people give athletes a pass, because they are entertaining. And then they justify it with every example they can think of instead of just being real and pointing out the deficiencies. And if you do, the crybaby choir comes a calling.

Reading, writing, arithmetic, and a basic knowledge of physical sciences are taught throughout from first grade into college. Your skin tone doesnt determine your ability to comprehend them, neither does your culture. You have the choice to learn these concepts and apply them. If you choose not to, you are responsible, not your unstable home life, not your race, not your culture. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact, and no excuse or sob story changes that fact.

So if one chooses to talk, act, or express themselves in any way that does not represent an educated individual, it is their choice alone and any criticisms are warrented. Sorry snowflakes, but safe spaces don't exist in life. If you interviewed for a position and didn't get it because you answered "they was" or "I be" to the questions you were "axed", it wasn't because of your skin color or culture or because you weren't "white enough". It was because you presented yourself as uneducated and unprofessional and unwilling to act either when it mattered, which may be an indication of your intelligence - or lack thereof. And any disagreement with that perspective is a willingness to lower the bar so that everyone gets a trophy.

That's where my "argument loses traction" with you and your narrative - not with the truth.

Of course I'm talking about obstacles and my point is, some individuals are presented with more obstacles than others, therein making their path to success more difficult. Notice I said "difficult" and not impossible and notice that nowhere did I say that it was fair or unfair - it simply is. The fact is that if you are born into poverty, you have an exponentially greater likelihood of remaining in poverty. This has been true for most of recorded time and not just since kids started saying "like" every other word.

I'm not sure of your background but I will say that most people that I've encountered with your take on things - including friends - have an inflated view of what they actually accomplished relative to their starting point. "Born on third base but, thought he hit a triple" to borrow a phrase.

 

[KingHenry_X]

Ok man, Race and culture are irrelevant... whatever helps you sleep...I tried but you're still an idiot. I don't think Lamar needs to worry about you interviewing him... thank God for that.

How can you expect equality with that attitude? I would rather be an idiot that knows enough to see you are an ignorant racist.

 

[KingHenry_X]

The fact is that if you are born into poverty, you have an exponentially greater likelihood of remaining in poverty. This has been true for most of recorded time

Is it? Did your sociology professor teach you that? Maybe that's because the same people keep making the same mistake and those that don't move on.

I would say most people I've encountered around the world with your perspective are people who believe what others have told them is the truth and have very little first-hand experience with the subject. Always commenting from your arm chair, no dirt to be found under your fingernails.