De'Aaron Fox
- Thread starter Cardiotonic
- Start date
So, where would he be ranked if he hadn't gone to Gonzaga? Would anyone even recall his name? How much PT would the "platoon" have provided him?
Yeah, that's bull$hit. Doesn't quite sound like the banner after the NIT debacle: "Never fear, the Twins are here!" No one heard any of that LPT revisionist thinking a couple years ago when the Twins came on the scene, because it didn't exist.
And I always love that "weak/strong class" analysis from LPT fans and coaches after the fact. One way to not subject yourself to that contrived variable--don't have all of your welfare tied to one class. Sounds like b!tching about the very system you've created.
"Playing in the NBA" is starting to sound like a watered down LPT accomplishment, like playing in the NCAA tourney. Before long, fielding a basketball team will be listed on an LPT banner somewhere. Kinda pitiful.
Where in L1C4 is there an NBA requirement? That's an LPT overlay. Kinda like draft nite being the greatest day in LPT history. That's LPT logic, not ours.
What's "ignorant" about facts? Other than you don't like 'em? Sorry about that.
One title in that time frame is the same as several other programs (incl. U of L) and one less than UConn. And all of those programs with a helluva lot less talent.
Of course, you won't see most championship coaches asking their bench if they should call a timeout in a regional final.
Nothing LPT related irks me. And I don't know what game you're talking about here. But one game in history shouldn't define anyone or prove anything. Your coach didn't earn his reputation based on one game. He has a lotta games on which to judge him, as we do.
Well let's check where those U of L guys were ranked outta high school, in their respective classes...
Blackshear #36 (2011)
Aaron #30 (2014)
Jones #47 (2011)
Harrell #82 (2012)
Behanan #21 (2011)
Price #67 (2011)
Smith NR (2010)
Dieng #44 (2010)
Siva #39 (2009)
Compare those numbers to the class rankings of the LPT failures and near failures in this thread. Hell, Wiltjer was 22nd in the 2011 class, one spot lower than U of L's HIGHEST ranking guy in the above list.
And why would Fox with his #9 class ranking be the least bit concerned about this list of U of L guys? Fox is in a different world.
"Elite program", my a$$...
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Fox is in a different world, exactly. So which UK's six flameouts (only one of which was a McDonald's All-American [Doron Lamb], opposed to Louisville's 3 flameout McD A-As) is similar to Fox? Who is De'Aaron Fox more similar to? Doron Lamb, or John Wall/Derrick Rose?
I'll answer for you, as I'm sure you were one of those who said that Peyton Siva was better than John Wall, so your evaluation of talent is probably iffy at best.
He's much more similar to John Wall and Derrick Rose.
Who has more experience with one-and-done talent players? Calipari and Kentucky. Rick and Louisville have never had one, which he said himself is not something he wants to walk into.
Who has been winning more since Calipari got to Kentucky? Again, Kentucky, with 190 wins in 6 years. Louisville has 168 in that time. And then there's that gruesome head-to-head record...
Who has more players in the NBA? Landslide... Kentucky.
If you were to give a recruiting pick to De'Aaron Fox, what would it be Zipp? "Come to Louisville, be L1C4! You may not make much money in a few years, but at least you'll always have the support of the Louisville community! Isn't that really worth at least $70 million over the course of 5 years?"
Yep, I'm sure that will reel some people in.
I'll answer for you, as I'm sure you were one of those who said that Peyton Siva was better than John Wall, so your evaluation of talent is probably iffy at best.
He's much more similar to John Wall and Derrick Rose.
Who has more experience with one-and-done talent players? Calipari and Kentucky. Rick and Louisville have never had one, which he said himself is not something he wants to walk into.
Who has been winning more since Calipari got to Kentucky? Again, Kentucky, with 190 wins in 6 years. Louisville has 168 in that time. And then there's that gruesome head-to-head record...
Who has more players in the NBA? Landslide... Kentucky.
If you were to give a recruiting pick to De'Aaron Fox, what would it be Zipp? "Come to Louisville, be L1C4! You may not make much money in a few years, but at least you'll always have the support of the Louisville community! Isn't that really worth at least $70 million over the course of 5 years?"
Yep, I'm sure that will reel some people in.
I'm still waiting for all of the examples of guys that Cal turned into NBA player who weren't already projected there before college? Here's the only one, Jort
The point being made about Siva>Wall is college careers. blue people are so quick to talk NBA and draft and how many guys are in the league..or were and ain't no mo. UofL fans and the L1C4 isn't about the NBA or how many guys get there. It's about guys who want to be a part of something special, work hard, play COLLEGE ball, become part of the community and work towards a degree. If they go on to succeed in professional basketball or whatever profession they choose then great for them. I'll be happy for them. I just don't follow the NBA except to check in on guys from time to time IF they are on tv. We could have 50 guys playing in the NBA and I wouldn't feel any diferent about it. Once again...not an NBA fan.
Blue people just have trouble connecting with that because they're too wrapped up in Cal's BS and their own egomania. Enjoy all those guys who could care less about the short time they have to spend in horse country.
We still own the most recent championship. go cayuts
The point being made about Siva>Wall is college careers. blue people are so quick to talk NBA and draft and how many guys are in the league..or were and ain't no mo. UofL fans and the L1C4 isn't about the NBA or how many guys get there. It's about guys who want to be a part of something special, work hard, play COLLEGE ball, become part of the community and work towards a degree. If they go on to succeed in professional basketball or whatever profession they choose then great for them. I'll be happy for them. I just don't follow the NBA except to check in on guys from time to time IF they are on tv. We could have 50 guys playing in the NBA and I wouldn't feel any diferent about it. Once again...not an NBA fan.
Blue people just have trouble connecting with that because they're too wrapped up in Cal's BS and their own egomania. Enjoy all those guys who could care less about the short time they have to spend in horse country.
We still own the most recent championship. go cayuts
"McDonald's All American" is a far less precise measure of ability and basis for comparison. It's like your Mr. Chicago label on Blackshear vs. Davis. Almost meaningless. The numbers I quoted you are Rivals rankings since this is a Rivals site. An objective scoring system beyond subjectivity and local/corporate politics.
And I don't recall ever making a comparison between Wall and Siva except which one has an NCAA ring.
I'm not interested in "reeling people in". I want L1C4 kids because they want the discipline, training, and experience. It obviously ain't for everyone. But I'll take that guy vs. a kid who's here for a few months with one goal in mind--to leave and start making money ASAP. Let that kid go to LPT.
You're OT here, but I'll give you that recap again...
- Consistently garbage LPT basketball schedule
- A whole lot more talent, as measured by Rivals (one title with 27 freaking five-star guys is almost an embarrassment)
- The Super Bowl factor, as your coach refers to it, with respect to the few good teams on your schedule
And while my guy can't recruit as well, at least he independently knows when to call a timeout in a pressure packed game.
"Elite program", my a$$...
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In fairness, Liggins also comes to mind. Interesting, however, that both of those guys were brought in by Billy Clyde--who despite his many issues was probably a better coach with a better eye for talent.
But you're right about those examples... And you'll never hear about the many Pitino Lite kids who have bombed out or are in the process of falling to earth. Because that doesn't fit their agenda.
"Elite program", my a$$...
Zipp : That Pitino Lite coach you are referring to happens to be 7 wins and 1 loss to Pitino since he has been at Kentucky. Maybe you need to refer to Cal more as the Master.
This would be a reasonable argument if everyone were reloading full rosters every year, but they're not. As it is, other schools have far more returning players on average than UK, so looking at the absolute number of five stars is not a particularly helpful point of comparison.
Obviously, you could theoretically have a 7 player rotation of all five-star players over a four year period with only a total of 7 five-star recruits, assuming they all stuck around.
In fact, there's a good chance that you'd have smoother sailing in those later years than a guy who has 28 five stars in the same time, because by year four, you have a rotation of 7 senior former five stars versus his 7 freshmen former five stars.
K - the GOAT and the only coach with results as good or better than Cal's in that time - had 9 burger boys on this last team, tied for most of all time. His talent has been historically high, as well. To make it sound like Cal has had twice as much talent as K this whole time is at best horribly ignorant, and at worst, willfully deceitful. K and Self and Miller (and until very recently, Roy) have typically had near 5 star averages for their main rotations, and typically with more experience than Cal.
So those numbers are beyond misleading - they're bordering on useless without that additional context.
And I'm not sure what you're on about with results not showing, considering Cal has produced the most successful initial 6 year run at a school in the history of CBB (with the arguable exception of Roy at UNC).
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Most of that sounds like pie-in-the-sky and b!tching about your own OAD system. And the environment your school has created for the rest of college basketball.
FIVE STAR BASKETBALL RECRUITS 2009-2014:
NCAA BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010-2015:
And if you consider the teams that have made multiple Elite Eight appearances in that same time frame, this is the way I would eyeball rate their performance with respect to the talent on their rosters:
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only championship at LPT during that time period was with Anthony Davis, their best player overall and one of the best in the NBA.
And that's because LPT doesn't really have a coach... They have a recruiter or salesman. Tremendous amount of talent, but results not so remarkable compared to that talent. And raw talent matters more to LPT fans who have always been hyper-obsessed with recruiting.
"Elite program", my a$$...
Zipp, just an FYI...the comma goes inside the quotation mark. I wouldn't want improper punctuation to take away from your powerful slogan.
If Kentucky didn't have a coach, why is the head-to-head so one-sided? The only time, and I mean the only time in Rick's career where he had an advantage over John Calipari, is when Rick was coaching the greatest basketball program of all time, and Calipari was coaching a mid-major, and even then, Cal won one against the best team that Rick ever had with considerably less talent.
Calipari's record vs Pitino between 91-96 was 1-4. Both started out rebuilding, but the difference was, Cal was rebuilding a mid-major, Rick was rebuilding Kentucky.
and then..
In the NBA, while Cal was with the Nets and Pitino was with the Celtics, the series between them was tied at 3-3
The series between Memphis and Louisville was tied at 4-4 (and again, Memphis wasn't squat whenever Cal got there, and they're not squat now because he left. I guess that's a coincidence though, right Zipp?)
And now the tides turned..
Calipari ends up at the greatest basketball program of all time, and Rick is coaching Louisville (which is considerably better than the school that Cal was coaching when Rick was at Kentucky).
Cal dominated the series 7-1
So how is it that Cal is "not a coach", when he out-coaches your coach in the long run. For the length of his career, he has a higher win percentage, now he dominates the head-to-head, I mean, I'm not sure that you have any argument at all that Rick is as good of a coach as Cal.
By the way, I don't think it's a coincidence that Rick needed his best team ever assembled in his coaching history to win a title game at UK, and far and away the best PG that he's had at Louisville, to win the title there.
What sticks out to me, is that everything Rick accomplished at UK, Cal has 1-upped it.
Rick goes to UK, wins 81.4% of his games, including a title, a runner-up, and 3 final fours total (no coincidence that his career peaked at Kentucky). The title came after 7 years, the first final four came after 4 years.
Cal goes to UK, wins 83.3% of his games, including a title, a runner-up, and 4 final fours total. The title came after 3 years, the first final four came after 2 years.
Rick is going into his 16th seasons after winning his first title. I wonder, if Cal stayed another 10 years, think he'd win another title? (I say this because it took Rick 13 years to win his second national title).
I think it's a safe bet that he does. May even win 2 more.
Most of that sounds like pie-in-the-sky and b!tching about your own OAD system. And the environment your school has created for the rest of college basketball.
FIVE STAR BASKETBALL RECRUITS 2009-2014:
NCAA BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010-2015:
And if you consider the teams that have made multiple Elite Eight appearances in that same time frame, this is the way I would eyeball rate their performance with respect to the talent on their rosters:
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only championship at LPT during that time period was with Anthony Davis, their best player overall and one of the best in the NBA.
And that's because LPT doesn't really have a coach... They have a recruiter or salesman. Tremendous amount of talent, but results not so remarkable compared to that talent. And raw talent matters more to LPT fans who have always been hyper-obsessed with recruiting.
"Elite program", my a$$...
At least UK is in the discussion almost every year for the final four and a National Championship. Cal making the final four almost every year (4 out of the 6 years he has been at UK and one National Championship ) is unbelievable. No other school since UCLA and John Wooden can make that claim. All any college basketball fan wants is to be in the discussion to make a final four and possibly a National Championship each year. I have been a Kentucky fan for forty years and UK has never had it so good. Cal has been at Kentucky six years. How long has Pitino been at Louisville? He was hired March 21, 2001. Cal has 4 final fours in six years and one Championship. How does that compare to UL during the first six years after Crum and CRP's fifteen year period. Just check it out. It might cause you some headaches but at least you will know what the real facts are. No coach since Rupp has accomplished what Cal has done at Kentucky. I can't wait for the next six years and hope you will still be around to discuss the results.
Nice statsMost of that sounds like pie-in-the-sky and b!tching about your own OAD system. And the environment your school has created for the rest of college basketball.
FIVE STAR BASKETBALL RECRUITS 2009-2014:
NCAA BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010-2015:
And if you consider the teams that have made multiple Elite Eight appearances in that same time frame, this is the way I would eyeball rate their performance with respect to the talent on their rosters:
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only championship at LPT during that time period was with Anthony Davis, their best player overall and one of the best in the NBA.
And that's because LPT doesn't really have a coach... They have a recruiter or salesman. Tremendous amount of talent, but results not so remarkable compared to that talent. And raw talent matters more to LPT fans who have always been hyper-obsessed with recruiting.
"Elite program", my a$$...
Damn, can you read a bar chart? 24 five-star recruits for LPT vs. ONE for U of L. You think that freaking matters?
Not to mention the Super Bowl factor.
And I'll take the "coach" who doesn't have to ask his bench whether he should call a timeout.
And compounding the talent difference is the schedule difference. LPT played ONE team ranked in the Sagarin Top Ten at season's end. U of L played SEVEN of those games, and U of L was of course the second best team LPT played.
When your schedule sucks that loud, it's easy to get up for one or two teams outta 35. That's what "Super Bowl" means.
Seven times the number of Top Ten teams on your schedule with one-seventh the number of five-star players. Gee, I would guess that may affect the final results.
While rebuilding from another LPT run-in with the NCAA, Pitino was an injured player away from winning back-to-back titles at LPT. And Tubby won it the third year as you know with Pitino's team.
I think the 2013 U of L championship team had a quarter of the number of five-star players that LPT's team had that same year. The same team that Pitino Lite marched into the NIT. (He does have his mentor one-upped on those invites...)
The SEC is a full blown $hit conference today. When Pitino was there, it was more of a fledgling turd. That schedule thingy again.
Why not ask Pitino when his career peaked?
Anthony Davis ain't walkin' thru that door.
"Elite program", my a$$...
We all know when Pitinos career peaked. It was when he was at UK. He even said the biggest mistake he ever made was leaving UK. It doesn't matter how many five star players you have it comes down to results. We all know which team is having the best results.
I was taught British style punctuation. Glad to see you're still reading it that closely.
"Elite program", my a$$...
"Elite program," my a$$...
I'm not sure if I've ever seen more fact slappage in a thread than this one. Zipp may have broken the internet with the graphs proving the trolls wrong.....and evidently the incorrect way to use commas.
Who makes the decision to recruit what player? CRP has the same opportunity to recruit those five star players. It is not Cal's fault that CRP can't get those five star recruits. Zipp you can't use the excuse that Cal gets all these great recruits and Louisville has to play with one hand tied behind them. Therefore Cal is an underachiever. Maybe CRP is the underachiever because he can't get those 5 star recruits. Maybe that is why Cal is considered a better coach. The last time I looked recruiting was considered one of the responsibilities of the head coach. A head coach is rated in the end by the final results. There is no question which coach is ending up with the best results.
When UConn beat uk for the championship just how many 5 star recruits and McDonald's All Americans did UConn have on that team ? Just asking....Most of that sounds like pie-in-the-sky and b!tching about your own OAD system. And the environment your school has created for the rest of college basketball.
FIVE STAR BASKETBALL RECRUITS 2009-2014:
NCAA BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010-2015:
And if you consider the teams that have made multiple Elite Eight appearances in that same time frame, this is the way I would eyeball rate their performance with respect to the talent on their rosters:
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only championship at LPT during that time period was with Anthony Davis, their best player overall and one of the best in the NBA.
And that's because LPT doesn't really have a coach... They have a recruiter or salesman. Tremendous amount of talent, but results not so remarkable compared to that talent. And raw talent matters more to LPT fans who have always been hyper-obsessed with recruiting.
"Elite program", my a$$...
Allow me to sum up this entire thread:
Louisville fans: UK has recruited incredibly well (way better than Louisville), yet has only done marginally better than Louisville in the past 5 years (7-1 in the head-to-head doesn't matter because it is somehow "the Super Bowl" for UK, Louisville has the most recent title by one year, and UK went to the NIT). Thus, UK has underachieved and therefore sucks.
UK fans: So you are saying that UK is better than Louisville, just not as much better as we would have hoped or should be based on the great recruiting? In other words, you can't say you are better, so instead you resort to saying that we should have been better than you by a greater margin?
Louisville fans: Basically.
UK fans: K, thanks.
Louisville fans: UK has recruited incredibly well (way better than Louisville), yet has only done marginally better than Louisville in the past 5 years (7-1 in the head-to-head doesn't matter because it is somehow "the Super Bowl" for UK, Louisville has the most recent title by one year, and UK went to the NIT). Thus, UK has underachieved and therefore sucks.
UK fans: So you are saying that UK is better than Louisville, just not as much better as we would have hoped or should be based on the great recruiting? In other words, you can't say you are better, so instead you resort to saying that we should have been better than you by a greater margin?
Louisville fans: Basically.
UK fans: K, thanks.
Allow me to sum you up...........You're a uk fan on The Louisville rival's board who sounds worried and obsessed with The University of Louisville. Can't wait can you to put up another post can you?.....talk about obsessed and phatic. LOL And in the new few minutes you'll prove my point, you can't help yourself ! LMAO
I am so happy UK humbled the cards 7 out of the last 8 times they have played. That includes the last two times they played in the NCAA tournament when it really mattered while keeping the cards from going to the final four. It don't get any better.
No, allow ME to sum up this thread:
Louisville fans: Louisville is putting together a great recruiting class, and here is some info about some of the players we are pursuing.
UK fans: Oh, here is a thread about Louisville's recruiting on a Louisville message board. I have nothing else better to do but show my ass, so I am going to hijack it to make it about UK.
Louisville fans: Seriously? We are really tired of your crap, and, besides, we think that you sold yourselves out to get the results you have. Here is why we think that: taken solely on face value, your results look good. When you look deeper, it has a lot of flaws and red flags that indicate other problems.
UK fans: So, you admit the results look good?! We got you!!!! You have no choice but to surrender now!!!! We have won the message board wars!!!!!
Louisville fans: Apparently, you haven't read anything we wrote here, except for that one little part.
UK fans: Look, unless it is 10 words or less, we won't read it because we can't understand it.
You need to understand how we work; we show up, recite the same thing repeatedly and basically behave like jerks. It's called entertainment, and it wins the message board wars. Now, hurry up and surrender. I need to brag to my UK buddies that we won the message board wars. It is the only thing I have going for me.
Louisville fans: You truly are a sad group of people.
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Like I said "The sign of losers........hanging out on their rivals' boards ." Seems you've embraced being a loser and of course you'll post again in the next few minutes on your rival school's board, you're an obsessed loser go ahead embrace it because that's what losers like you do. LMAO
Wow.....The typical brain dead blue hole. Did your folks have any children that lived.
Check back with me anytime of any year and I will tell you I could give a rats rear end about the nba and who's there. I happen to be a college sports fan first, then NFL, then golf, then baseball....then the nba....when there is nothing esle on and maaaybe checking in on a former UofL player. But this all depends on if there's something better on Discovery, History, Animal Planet, National Geographic, AMC, or almost any other channel not including the $EZ network or ESPiN.
SO tell me again why I should care?
Your statement tells me you clearly don't have a clue.
He is reading this board because he is a Louisville fan and it is a Louisville board. Any discussion held on this board takes place with that perspective in mind, and it doesn't matter if the discussion involves the school 70 miles to the East. If you want to talk about how many people UK will put in the NBA, there are several UK websites with discussion boards you can discuss that about.
You are acting just like that other fool who tried to summarize this thread by stating it was about UK's recruiting class, when, clearly, the first post was about guys that Louisville was recruiting and the interest they had in Louisville.
John Calapari has NEVER WON a championship with a team made up from his own players.
Rick Pitino has twice...... Let that flow into your minds blue holes.
Rick Pitino has twice...... Let that flow into your minds blue holes.
This is pretty well said.
We have a couple of posters that DO want the back and forth. I'm sure you don't. I know I don't.
Mods are in a bind. They know a couple of our high profile posters enjoy the back and forth. They also have an agenda of using the free site to entice premium membership. You know the advertising, "Go premium, you won't have to read about the anti-Louisville talk there we actually moderate the pay boards."
I get it, you get what you pay for.
The board is just embarrassing though. You cannot get through two UofL threads in a row without encountering awful trolls. I know, we can leave any time. I'm just sort of holding out hope a mod does the right thing and the board returns to actually being a Louisville board.
No big deal either way.
I don't really have an issue with back and forth. Every time that I reply, I am participating in it. And, I won't take crap off of UK fans.
It seems that the back and forth in these threads are the same arguments each time, and it's the same argument you could hear anywhere else. So, I don't engage in the info or opinion that they bring up; it's just following someone down a rabbit hole. It's their rabbit hole, too.
I had to give up premium recently, among other things, because, with two kids, my expenses changed. I don't get a whole lot of UofL info down here, and these board, especially, recently, Cardiotonic's posts and, in the past, Birdteeth's posts, help keep me current on the recruiting.
Whatever happened to Birdteeth?
It seems that the back and forth in these threads are the same arguments each time, and it's the same argument you could hear anywhere else. So, I don't engage in the info or opinion that they bring up; it's just following someone down a rabbit hole. It's their rabbit hole, too.
I had to give up premium recently, among other things, because, with two kids, my expenses changed. I don't get a whole lot of UofL info down here, and these board, especially, recently, Cardiotonic's posts and, in the past, Birdteeth's posts, help keep me current on the recruiting.
Whatever happened to Birdteeth?
Recent parent, said he was done posting too busy.
Hopefully he will drop in again. Got to believe he at least lurks, maybe during the season.
Best wishes to him. Having kids changes everything.
Hopefully, he can drop some useful info our way every once in a while, or tell us how the new dad experience is coming along. Either would be welcome.
Hopefully, he can drop some useful info our way every once in a while, or tell us how the new dad experience is coming along. Either would be welcome.
