Coaching candidates

swurv99

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Good for brohm pn what he did but it still doesnt change the fact that we cant afford him. If you want to fire P thats fine but the school is going to have to budget his buyout over probably the next 4 years. So basically your paying P 3.5million a year to bot coach and then pay brohm 6million a year. It comes down to does the board want to basically pay 9.5milliion a year in salary for a HC. Plus also does brohm want the job. Urban meyer may reture after this season. Does ohio state call?
 

KerryRhodes

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Good for brohm pn what he did but it still doesnt change the fact that we cant afford him. If you want to fire P thats fine but the school is going to have to budget his buyout over probably the next 4 years. So basically your paying P 3.5million a year to bot coach and then pay brohm 6million a year. It comes down to does the board want to basically pay 9.5milliion a year in salary for a HC. Plus also does brohm want the job. Urban meyer may reture after this season. Does ohio state call?
LoL.

UofL has the money.

Dont you worry.

He'd choose UofL over OSU.

Home is where his heart is.

Would OSU call Petrino ? That should tell you who is the bettet coach..........
 

zipp

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So when the move to Brohm is made, and the money figured out - what will you say then?
Kinda like when Bailout Arena was built...

It's just the Greater Fool Theory in action again. As insane as asking is for that amount of money and for that purpose, there are actually people more insane than you are willing to pay it. None of that validates the decision or guarantees a positive result. Look at the financial mess the arena is and how that's affected U of L years down the road.

Again, I think the ante of $18 million (and probably climbing) is ridiculous. And it probably won't be done for that reason. There are insane people around, but they're in the minority...
 

BPGhost

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Kinda like when Bailout Arena was built...

It's just the Greater Fool Theory in action again. As insane as asking is for that amount of money and for that purpose, there are actually people more insane than you are willing to pay it. None of that validates the decision or guarantees a positive result. Look at the financial mess the arena is and how that's affected U of L years down the road.

Again, I think the ante of $18 million (and probably climbing) is ridiculous. And it probably won't be done for that reason. There are insane people around, but they're in the minority...
So then you'll say that you were incorrect? Of course you won't - Timeless Zippism #1 - never admit you were wrong, simply change the conversation to why someone else was wrong to not see the wisdom of your opinion.

First off, the comparison of buying out Petrino to the YUM Center is an inane one with the lone exception of noting that if the YUM Center was built (but really shouldn't have been as you say) in uncertain conditions, UofL will find a way to do this deal.

Secondly, I am not debating you on the merits of doing the deal or not, I'm simply saying that if UofL wants Brohm, and Brohm wants UofL - they will figure the money out. You can shout your opinion from the rooftops and that is a fact that you can't change.
 

beantowncard

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[QUOTE="zipp, post: 503857, member:
There are insane people around, but they're in the minority...[/QUOTE]
Among whom? Fan base? Donors? Administration? Remember your dealing with a select population here.
 
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zipp

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So then you'll say that you were incorrect? Of course you won't - Timeless Zippism #1 - never admit you were wrong, simply change the conversation to why someone else was wrong to not see the wisdom of your opinion.

First off, the comparison of buying out Petrino to the YUM Center is an inane one with the lone exception of noting that if the YUM Center was built (but really shouldn't have been as you say) in uncertain conditions, UofL will find a way to do this deal.

Secondly, I am not debating you on the merits of doing the deal or not, I'm simply saying that if UofL wants Brohm, and Brohm wants UofL - they will figure the money out. You can shout your opinion from the rooftops and that is a fact that you can't change.
The odds are stacked against you because of the amount of money, and I play the odds. A bad financial risk is a bad financial risk, only the circumstances are different. And if you didn't want me to answer your question, why did you ask it?...
 

zipp

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Among whom? Fan base? Donors? Administration? Remember your dealing with a select population here.
Well, they have to be insane and in control of big money. We have insane people here, but they have no money relatively speaking...
 

BPGhost

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The odds are stacked against you because of the amount of money, and I play the odds. A bad financial risk is a bad financial risk, only the circumstances are different. And if you didn't want me to answer your question, why did you ask it?...
History is stacked against you and the history says that UofL will figure out a deal if there is a deal to be made. I’ll take that over you and your odds.
 
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I realize SEC schools aren’t the paragon of ethics, but I think Petrino’s transgression at Arky would’ve given pause.
I agree one should never cheat on their spouse. That volleyball chick was hot, I'd say 50% (or more) of men would have turned that chick around on all fours just like Bobby did. So be careful on the stone-throwing.
 

zipp

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History is stacked against you and the history says that UofL will figure out a deal if there is a deal to be made. I’ll take that over you and your odds.
When have we ever paid $18 million for a coaching change? There's your history...
 

swurv99

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Now there are rumors that allegedly P will be gone by the end of the week with cause. Somehow "dirt" has landed in front of them to fire him with cause. Again I
 

zipp

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Denny Crum to Pitino was actually more in present day value.
Yeah, but that's not a single buyout payment. Any contract can be discounted to present. Go ahead and put Brohm's hypothetical contract into the calculation, and the number skyrockets.

We have never paid that much money to get a coach, and we've had some pretty good ones here...
 

BPGhost

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Yeah, but that's not a single buyout payment. Any contract can be discounted to present. Go ahead and put Brohm's hypothetical contract into the calculation, and the number skyrockets.

We have never paid that much money to get a coach, and we've had some pretty good ones here...
This deal wouldn't be a single buyout payment either.
 

BPGhost

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I've read the contract. Has to be paid in the first year....close enough.
Wouldn’t have been close enough if the roles were reversed. Nice to see that you are able to give the benefit of the doubt...

If only to yourself.
 

zipp

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Wouldn’t have been close enough if the roles were reversed. Nice to see that you are able to give the benefit of the doubt...

If only to yourself.
Well let's ask U of L accountants whether paying $16 million in January 2019 or $4 million in each of March, June, September, and December 2019 matters much.

If we get a "yes", you've finally scored a basket...
 

BPGhost

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Well let's ask U of L accountants whether paying $16 million in January 2019 or $4 million in each of March, June, September, and December 2019 matters much.

If we get a "yes", you've finally scored a basket...
I believe that number is getting ready to come down in the coming days.
 

beantowncard

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Wasn’t there something about Bobby’s buyout coming down if TJ was no longer the AD?
 

Art79

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Kinda like when Bailout Arena was built...
Look at the financial mess the arena is and how that's affected U of L years down the road.
...
Zipp, please enlighten me... What you say here sounds like you think that the arena has been a bad deal for UofL, but it's hard for me to see how that could be possible...

Yes, the arena has had financial problems from the city's and state's perspective, but it's been nothing but a financial boon for the UofL athletic department. As we continue to hear, "UofL is the #1 revenue producing basketball program in the country", with a bottom line result (revenue - expenses) that significantly exceeds what we had at Freedom Hall.

Yes, UofL will now be paying $2.5 million more in rent than in the first 7-8 years at the arena, but the monetary benefit from the additional seats and the tripling of suites versus Freedom Hall still results in more money for the athletic department than before. If you have some financial data that proves otherwise, please share it. And then there are the recruiting advantages and prestige of playing in "the best college basketball arena in America".

And please remember, the arena ended up at the much more expensive river location than the less expensive option 3 blocks further south because Jurich and Ramsey insisted that 2nd and Main was the only downtown location they would support. So, when the financial problems became impossible to ignore, it was only fair for the athletic department to do it's part for the community to help finance an arena that the community built basically for UofL and that has been so good for it.
 
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zipp

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Zipp, please enlighten me... What you say here sounds like you think that the arena has been a bad deal for UofL, but it's hard for me to see how that could be possible...
A new annual report is due from U of L any day which will give a more recent snapshot.

Let me just pass along this... If you deduct the $2.42 million annually that the clown show agreed to start paying Bailout Arena in the summer of 2017, the "profit" for basketball is calculated to be less in FY2017 than it was in three of the final four years we played at Freedom Hall. Profit in this case is taken from annual reports as operating revenue from basketball less operating expenses.

If that's not a bad deal going forward, I need help defining what that means...
 

zipp

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Please elaborate
There are two types of buyouts in a typical contract: (1) the money the school must pay the coach if he/she's terminated early, and (2) money that the school is paid if the coach leaves early on his own. In Petrino's case, (1) is what we talk about everyday, the $12-14 million. (2) is what was cut 50% when Jurich was kicked to the curb.

So (1) wasn't affected by the Jurich action...
 

wilkie01

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Ok, you are partially correct. However, Jurich did extend his contract that is written in Petrino's favor!

Here are things that need to happen:

1) Hire Jeff Brohm and allow him to built and take football to the next level. And eventually put a dome over Cardinal Stadium. Then the city of Louisville can host a Bowl game every year. I know the naysayers will say it will never happen. But they said the New Cardinal would never be built. They also said Louisville would never be in a BigTime conference, But here we are playing in the New Cardinal Stadium and in the ACC!

2) Start raising money for the building of an on campus basketball arena. Now I know the naysayers will say it will never happen again. But I ask you do you remember, what the UofL Campus looked like in 1971? I was in the office of the Dean of the Business School in 1975. He showed me and my Pi Sigma Epsilon brother and sisters a map of the 30 year plan. Well, it has grown into our beautiful 2018 Campus. Right now the plan's growth has exceed our 1775 dreams. And the on campus arena will happen in the near future. We have to control our own facilities, instead of the Political Hacks Jerry Abrams and Greg Fischer. Go Cards and long live our UofL!
 

Art79

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A new annual report is due from U of L any day which will give a more recent snapshot.

Let me just pass along this... If you deduct the $2.42 million annually that the clown show agreed to start paying Bailout Arena in the summer of 2017, the "profit" for basketball is calculated to be less in FY2017 than it was in three of the final four years we played at Freedom Hall. Profit in this case is taken from annual reports as operating revenue from basketball less operating expenses.

If that's not a bad deal going forward, I need help defining what that means...
(I realize that my discussion here is a basketball discussion on a football page, so if we need to move this over, I’ll be glad to do so, because I think this is important.)

Zipp, let’s make sure this is an apples-to-apples comparison… Comparing “profit” can mask a lot of things and a decreased profit does not necessarily mean that the downtown arena has been a bad deal for UofL. A better and more accurate comparison would be a true cost/benefit analysis related specifically to the arena, meaning the difference in the athletic department’s Revenue minus Expenses incurred at Freedom Hall versus the Revenue minus Expenses at the KFC Yum Center. Looking only at “profit” between the last few years at Freedom Hall versus FY2017 downtown, there are many other things that could come into the picture outside of where the games are played, such as: NCAA tournament revenue (there were a couple of Elite Eight’s at the end of the Freedom Hall years), One-time or unusual expenses (maybe legal fees related to an NCAA investigation?), Travel Expenses (maybe ACC travel costs are greater than that for Big East travel), and there are probably plenty of other things to consider where the costs increased unrelated to where the games are played. Would the “profit” be less if the program was still at Freedom Hall? What I think is the proper barometer is the specific difference related to the revenue and costs associated solely with Freedom Hall versus the downtown arena.

And what specific time period was FY2017 for the athletic department, 01/01/17-12/31/17 or something else? Depending on the timing, that year was largely or entirely influenced by Jurich as the AD, and maybe Tyra can budget and run things on more fiscally responsible basis.

If you have any financial details that we can go over to make a better comparison, please share them, and I’ll be glad to help resolve the question objectively.
 

beantowncard

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Ok, you are partially correct. However, Jurich did extend his contract that is written in Petrino's favor!

Here are things that need to happen:

1) Hire Jeff Brohm and allow him to built and take football to the next level. And eventually put a dome over Cardinal Stadium. Then the city of Louisville can host a Bowl game every year. I know the naysayers will say it will never happen. But they said the New Cardinal would never be built. They also said Louisville would never be in a BigTime conference, But here we are playing in the New Cardinal Stadium and in the ACC!

2) Start raising money for the building of an on campus basketball arena. Now I know the naysayers will say it will never happen again. But I ask you do you remember, what the UofL Campus looked like in 1971? I was in the office of the Dean of the Business School in 1975. He showed me and my Pi Sigma Epsilon brother and sisters a map of the 30 year plan. Well, it has grown into our beautiful 2018 Campus. Right now the plan's growth has exceed our 1775 dreams. And the on campus arena will happen in the near future. We have to control our own facilities, instead of the Political Hacks Jerry Abrams and Greg Fischer. Go Cards and long live our UofL!
Let’s put a dome over the whole city, so we can grow palm trees and never get rained or snowed on! Sheesh
 

zipp

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(I realize that my discussion here is a basketball discussion on a football page, so if we need to move this over, I’ll be glad to do so, because I think this is important.)

Zipp, let’s make sure this is an apples-to-apples comparison… Comparing “profit” can mask a lot of things and a decreased profit does not necessarily mean that the downtown arena has been a bad deal for UofL. A better and more accurate comparison would be a true cost/benefit analysis related specifically to the arena, meaning the difference in the athletic department’s Revenue minus Expenses incurred at Freedom Hall versus the Revenue minus Expenses at the KFC Yum Center. Looking only at “profit” between the last few years at Freedom Hall versus FY2017 downtown, there are many other things that could come into the picture outside of where the games are played, such as: NCAA tournament revenue (there were a couple of Elite Eight’s at the end of the Freedom Hall years), One-time or unusual expenses (maybe legal fees related to an NCAA investigation?), Travel Expenses (maybe ACC travel costs are greater than that for Big East travel), and there are probably plenty of other things to consider where the costs increased unrelated to where the games are played. Would the “profit” be less if the program was still at Freedom Hall? What I think is the proper barometer is the specific difference related to the revenue and costs associated solely with Freedom Hall versus the downtown arena.

And what specific time period was FY2017 for the athletic department, 01/01/17-12/31/17 or something else? Depending on the timing, that year was largely or entirely influenced by Jurich as the AD, and maybe Tyra can budget and run things on more fiscally responsible basis.

If you have any financial details that we can go over to make a better comparison, please share them, and I’ll be glad to help resolve the question objectively.
As far as discussing it here, it's all athletics money, and it's eventually gonna affect all sports...

I'm not gonna defend the merits of using a widely regarded measure of financial performance like operating profit. The only question is what of relevance does it miss, if anything. Maybe you misunderstood, but I was reading to you operating profit at Freedom Hall and the new arena. That's apples-to-apples. NCAA tournament revenue does not accrue to U of L although it helps the arena. I have no idea how legal and travel expenses are relevant. If there are identifiable costs of significance omitted from the operating profit calculation, I don't know of any.

The only other significant revenue I'm aware of is what U of L itemizes as gifts and donations, and they are not operating. CAF donations in basketball, for example, should be part of a profit calculation and they are pure profit (no offsetting expenses). But why would donations increase while other profit is flat to declining? "I'll give you more money, but I don't wanna go to games." That makes no sense.

Unfortunately, I'm an outsider in a financial sense, and all I have in the way of resources are published financial reports. I can pick thru the footnotes and try to project numbers going forward, but not much else. I'm pretty confident our finances are going to be declining at least in a relative sense, i.e., other schools. The only question I have is how soon and by how much...
 

beantowncard

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But why would donations increase while other profit is flat to declining? "I'll give you more money, but I don't wanna go to games." That makes no sense.
Post-Mortem donations or out of towners, maybe?
 

Art79

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As far as discussing it here, it's all athletics money, and it's eventually gonna affect all sports...

I'm not gonna defend the merits of using a widely regarded measure of financial performance like operating profit. The only question is what of relevance does it miss, if anything. Maybe you misunderstood, but I was reading to you operating profit at Freedom Hall and the new arena. That's apples-to-apples...
Nope, I still don’t think we’re not comparing apples to apples, we’re not even in the same ballpark or (ahem) the same arena. I’m talking about revenue and expenses that are a result solely of which arena the team plays its games in, not the profit of the program as a whole, which can be affected by many things other than the arena in which the team plays. I think we need to isolate the impact of the arena on the bottom line.

It’s been widely reported that the arena deal allows the athletic department to keep 90 percent of the revenue from ticket sales for men’s games, 88 percent from premium suite sales, all of program and half of concession and gift shop sales, as well as additional separate deals for money from corporate signage and video board and sponsorship revenues. Also, widely reported was that for the first year in the new arena, the basketball revenues rose from $25.9 million for the last year at Freedom Hall to $40.9 million, resulting in the program becoming the most valuable college basketball program in the country. To me, that makes the program much better off in the new arena than in Freedom Hall, unless there were offsetting increased expenses of $15 million that were attributable specifically to the new arena.

It may take a while, but I’ll see if I can pull together some specific figures to show that, even with the increased $2.4 million cost in future years for the athletic department, the arena deal is still pretty sweet for UofL, just $2.4 million a year less sweet.
 
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