Clarity - Law Broken?

[ULGrad09]

Alright guys, so this post may be a bit lengthy. Apologies in advance.

So I am thinking through what is going down in the FBI investigation. I'm thinking through the timing of everything, specifically for us the news dropping on Bowen in October and now Miller/Ayton.

From my understanding, the FBI is performing this investigation for one purpose, the $$$ related to earned income and the associated tax because the bottom line is paying players, parents, agents, etc. is not illegal. The illegal aspect is not reporting it for tax purposes, unless I am missing something.

With that being said, I believe that is why the FBI is holding out so long on releasing information, because if I am thinking about this correctly, as long as the Ayton family reported the earned income on their year end tax return they haven't broken any laws, so perhaps they have submitted their year end without reporting the 100k? Any thoughts from you guys on that? Same with Bowen and his family.

Maybe I am way off, but feel like that could be the cause for the the timing in release.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Alright guys, so this post may be a bit lengthy. Apologies in advance.

So I am thinking through what is going down in the FBI investigation. I'm thinking through the timing of everything, specifically for us the news dropping on Bowen in October and now Miller/Ayton.

From my understanding, the FBI is performing this investigation for one purpose, the $$$ related to earned income and the associated tax because the bottom line is paying players, parents, agents, etc. is not illegal. The illegal aspect is not reporting it for tax purposes, unless I am missing something.

With that being said, I believe that is why the FBI is holding out so long on releasing information, because if I am thinking about this correctly, as long as the Ayton family reported the earned income on their year end tax return they haven't broken any laws, so perhaps they have submitted their year end without reporting the 100k? Any thoughts from you guys on that? Same with Bowen and his family.

Maybe I am way off, but feel like that could be the cause for the the timing in release.

Interesting angle - good post. Post more!

 

[HedleyLamarr]

Agents and coaches conspired to defraud public universities into offering scholarships to ineligible atheletes. I think that is the theory the US is using.

 

[Thecycle27]

The act of providing a loan to the players, parents or even the runners is not illegal. The IRS at this point isn't involved to my knowledge, they could down the road and probably will. If the parents filed taxes on that income they should be ok.

The core to the initial compliant or charges all had to do with the coaches being a university employee or state employee. As a state employee it is illegal to accept gift over X dollars. Since the universities accept federal money that is where, I think, the feds got involved. Once the coaches accepted money they, by law, accepted a bribe. The parties that provided the money to the coaches are complicit in the crime. That is how I interpret all of this.

The agent wasn't charged because he kept the money or the money only went to the players. He wasn't paying a state or federal employee. He only provided a loan which is totally legal.

 

[jarheadky]

Check out the RICO laws it covers the money laundering and wire fraud basically all the illegal interstate commerce. The reason they are being so closed mouth is because they are simply put squeezing everyone involved so far to get more and more names and charges that’s the way it works. The minions get 3 to 4 years for cooperating, others will get charged with operating a criminal enterprise and will be making a new cellie very very happy

 

[Cue Card]

Check out the RICO laws it covers the money laundering and wire fraud basically all the illegal interstate commerce. The reason they are being so closed mouth is because they are simply put squeezing everyone involved so far to get more and more names and charges that’s the way it works. The minions get 3 to 4 years for cooperating, others will get charged with operating a criminal enterprise and will be making a new cellie very very happy

That's right. This is organized crime stuff AKA Mafia. RICO is exactly the case the FBI is building and its main target is the shoe companies and the athletic programs who wheel and deal with them. The coaches and players are friendly fire.

 

[cardfaninmemphis]

Agents and coaches conspired to defraud public universities into offering scholarships to ineligible atheletes. I think that is the theory the US is using.

Many schools, such as, Duke, are not public universities. They are private schools.

 

[jarheadky]

Doesn’t matter if they are private or not if they’ve received federal funding of any type and I’d bet they have

 

[billoliver40]

The FBI has classified the schools as victims in a fraud scheme that also includes wire fraud and tax evasion.
When employees of the school participate actively in these acts, then if nothing else they are complicit in fraud.
The crossover is that the acts committed are also against the rules of the NCAA, which these schools belong to.
A coach, agent, or I suppose player or family can be guilty of breaking a law and the NCAA does not act because they are not a law enforcement agency. (Baylor, Penn State)
The NCAA can request and use part of the information gathered in a legal investigation to determine if NCAA RULES (recruiting violations, falsifying admission tests, forgetting amatuer status) has occurred.

Me giving a kid a hundred grand because I want him to get an education is fine
Me giving a kid a hundred grand because I want him to further his education at UK and play sports isn't

 

[brookstreet]

Doesn’t matter if they are private or not if they’ve received federal funding of any type and I’d bet they have

This is true and it makes me sick. Same thing for the parochial schools in KY. They get state funding.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...4487702.html&usg=AOvVaw008C3yTrsyPA_9GnaFhb41

 

[zipp]

As I understood the original explanations back in October, the issue is along the lines of what Hedley posted above. Additionally, the players are also complicit when they sign an affidavit at the university in which they enroll that they didn't violate rules that would render them ineligible.

What I never understood is the line the FBI created when it recommended indictments of certain coaches. IIRC only those coaches who took bribes. As far as breaking a law, I don't know why or how that matters...

 

[MikeMcCammon]

I have not seen any of these cases that included tax evasion charges. As was noted, you are seeing money laundering and wire fraud which are much easier to charge successfully.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

As I understood the original explanations back in October, the issue is along the lines of what Hedley posted above. Additionally, the players are also complicit when they sign an affidavit at the university in which they enroll that they didn't violate rules that would render them ineligible.

The part of all this I don't agree with is the federal prosecutors are considering the players and their families to be victims of the crimes. To me they are every bit the criminals the agents, shoe companies and coaches are and not victims at all.

 

[zipp]

The part of all this I don't agree with is the federal prosecutors are considering the players and their families to be victims of the crimes. To me they are every bit the criminals the agents, shoe companies and coaches are and not victims at all.

I don't think that's necessarily true... If you understood the second sentence in my post, the players who signed affidavits of eligibility are also at fault IF the FBI concludes they knew about money changing hands. That was probably why so many families were receiving money allegedly instead of players. If that's systemic and an obvious dodge of the law, it won't stand...

 

[MikeMcCammon]

I don't think that's necessarily true... If you understood the second sentence in my post, the players who signed affidavits of eligibility are also at fault IF the FBI concludes they knew about money changing hands. That was probably why so many families were receiving money allegedly instead of players. If that's systemic and an obvious dodge of the law, it won't stand...

The New York USAO has already proclaimed the players and their corrupt families are the victims in all this regardless of their involvement and knowledge of what was happening. That was mentioned by the US Attorney in the first news conference when all this started last year. Seems like the sentencing guidelines might add a point or two if the victim of a crime is a minor so that might have something to do with it but all in all it is hard for me to accept that the people getting the money are the victims. But of course they have to assign that status to someone in order to not have a victimless crime.

 

[LuvCards]

I really don't think much of this will matter when it comes to the NCAA. Emmett as much as said they are looking at changing the rules to allow contact with collegiate athletes and agents and will probably be in place before next season. This gives the schools and coaches an out because they will merely say the rules no longer prohibit contact and will not go back prior - merely go forward from here.

 

[jarheadky]

Don’t over analyze this with the families and players being victims, whether you agree with it or not. Fraud simply has to have a victim to be proven if there’s no victim then there’s no fraud.

 

[THS1979]

Alright guys, so this post may be a bit lengthy. Apologies in advance.

So I am thinking through what is going down in the FBI investigation. I'm thinking through the timing of everything, specifically for us the news dropping on Bowen in October and now Miller/Ayton.

From my understanding, the FBI is performing this investigation for one purpose, the $$$ related to earned income and the associated tax because the bottom line is paying players, parents, agents, etc. is not illegal. The illegal aspect is not reporting it for tax purposes, unless I am missing something.

With that being said, I believe that is why the FBI is holding out so long on releasing information, because if I am thinking about this correctly, as long as the Ayton family reported the earned income on their year end tax return they haven't broken any laws, so perhaps they have submitted their year end without reporting the 100k? Any thoughts from you guys on that? Same with Bowen and his family.

Maybe I am way off, but feel like that could be the cause for the the timing in release.

The DA said back when this all started that nothing was going to be release until after the trail and even then made mention that he had no reason to give any of this information to the NCAA. How and why some of this information is being leaked is a different story.