Another Nail in the NCAA Coffin … Johnson vs. NCAA Federal Court Case

[The Public Enemy]

Brutal day for the NCAA …. More change is looming in College Athletics

PHILADELPHIA — At the U.S. Third Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday, a panel of three judges attacked the NCAA’s business model of amateurism during a hearing for the Johnson v. NCAA case. They asked searing questions about why athletes aren’t employees — and at some points drew laughter from the mostly filled courtroom. One judge flat-out said he didn’t agree with the NCAA.

The case was originally brought by a group of athletes who are suing several schools and the NCAA, alleging they should be classified as university employees under the Fair Labor Standards Act, rather than amateurs. They claim they’re entitled to minimum wage in addition to scholarships.

Lawyers for the athletes told Front Office Sports they don’t believe that an NCAA loss would spell the end of college sports, as the NCAA seems to suggest. It would, however, effectively kill the governing body’s core principle of amateurism.

Judge Luis Felipe Restrepo added: “How are they not employees of the universities?” and referred to athletic departments as “regimes.”

Much of the conversation revolved around “whether there was an expectation of compensation,” Ehrlich noted — whether athletes expected to be paid, and if that could be evidence that they’re employees.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I don’t care about the NCAA I think they’re as corrupt as politicians, however I feel differently than the athletes. If they are going to be employee’s of the University then they should be given a salary and pay their own tuition with that salary. I think there needs to be some type of governing body or this will turn into a runaway train that will ruin college athletics. How many minor league sports programs have a large attendance record, none?

 

[beantowncard]

Yeah, they can’t claim salary AND grants in aid. If the GIA is compensation, then they are already paid. If it isn’t then the university need not offer GIA and just pay the players, out of which they must pay tuition.

 

[fredburgcard]

If the athletes are “employees“ then they will be liable to pay taxes on the value of any compensation they receive. That should include tuition, fees, books, meals, etc.

 

[Thecycle27]

Cause and effect. I think the athletes will end up on the short end of the stick especially at the lower level conferences and smaller programs. They will end up paying for going to school with a little extra for expenses just like they get today. They will have to pay taxes on all their income.

This will also open the door to collectively bargain. The schools will want put in a salary cap. I don’t see the NCAA membership agreeing to a national cap so it will probably be left to the conferences to set their own caps.

This is where the Big Ten and SEC are going to distance themselves from the rest. They will be able to use their TV money to out bid everyone in every sport.

It will end up in some sports being cut.

 

[CardsFirst]

I know one thing if that happens I’m going to save lots of money each year.
In a perfect world Universities would just say ok we’re doing away with all athletics.

 

[2330859]

Over time, I suspect that may actually become the reality, as at least some Universities will see the major sports as a negative rather than a positive.

The Miller story at Alabama is an example of where the alumni may not be so excited about their basketball program when they see a player tied to a local murder still on the court. I do wonder just how long administrations, alumni and fans will support athletic programs that seem destined to dilute college education. Miller is a “One and Done“, and there will be an asterisk on this Tide team regardless of their ultimate success this year.

 

[Thecycle27]

The sports programs are an incredible part of the universities admissions.

I have always said the promotion of one and done devalued education. The Universities-NCAA sold their sole in allowing education not to be the priority. The thing everyone is missing is athletics offers the majority of these athletes a path to an education they wouldn’t be able to afford without that sport. That is a lot of kids left at home with no future. That would be tragic because people are greedy. Their whole mission is educating, developing and protecting the kids. They lost that somewhere along the way.

The good thing is NIL is doing exactly what NCAA couldn’t do it is keeping kids in school longer. The Universities are digging their own grave with their positions.

 

[2330859]

The alarming absence of education in elementary thru High School is going to further reduce the vast majority of the college athletes from having successful careers. Aside from the "O&D" kids, so many of these graduates are struggling to find meaningful careers that were historically associated with college degrees. It's certainly not confined to UL, but when I see so many of these athletes who left UL with a degree, and still end up working in positions that did not require a degree ................ it raises more questions about the irresponsible nature of the schools.

 

[beantowncard]

The sports programs are an incredible part of the universities admissions.

I have always said the promotion of one and done devalued education. The Universities-NCAA sold their sole in allowing education not to be the priority. The thing everyone is missing is athletics offers the majority of these athletes a path to an education they wouldn’t be able to afford without that sport. That is a lot of kids left at home with no future. That would be tragic because people are greedy. Their whole mission is educating, developing and protecting the kids. They lost that somewhere along the way.

The good thing is NIL is doing exactly what NCAA couldn’t do it is keeping kids in school longer. The Universities are digging their own grave with their positions.

Nobody these days doesn’t go to college because of finances. Student loans are nearly universal. It’s a racket, actually. What athletics does offer is a discounted or even free education. But it’s not the only path.

 

[KozmasAgain]

The problem with college tuition and the government is they both keep making things worse. There is plenty of grant money for the underprivileged they have no worries. It is the middle class kids who are victims. The government keeps increasing the amount of grant money and every time they do that the colleges increase the tuition cost to eat up the grant money. Everyone would be better off if the government would just stay out of it.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

What’s the difference between getting your tuition paid for as a student-athlete and your employer paying for or subsidizing your health care costs? I’m not an accountant, but I’m not aware that the government taxes either. And it’s all part of the compensation equation, one in cash and another in kind.

All the NCAA has to do is de-professionalize what the rest of America is pushing back against. If HVL or Pierce Clarkson wants to take money on the side, the kid is ineligible to play that sport in college. It’s a free country—you can do one but not both. If you want to start earning money, you move on.

No great players will play their respective sports in college, and some would say the overall quality of the sport will decline. I’m not at all sure of the latter. The same thing was said when the OAD rule was adopted…

 

[fredburgcard]

What’s the difference between getting your tuition paid for as a student-athlete and your employer paying for or subsidizing your health care costs? I’m not an accountant, but I’m not aware that the government taxes either. And it’s all part of the compensation equation, one in cash and another in kind.

There’s are specific exemptions in the US and every state ( that taxes income) tax code dealing with employer sponsored health insurance. In the US, for some reason, the burden of health coverage is put on employers and employees unless you are disabled, over 65 or very low income. In almost all other advanced economies the government provides such coverage. For that reason the national and state legislatures decided that health insurance benefits should not be considered taxable income.

Under the IRS code the first $5,250 of education expenses paid by an employer are exempt from US income tax. The rest is taxable. Each state that taxes income has its own rules. I should have pointed that out in my earlier post. So if the courts rule that college athletes are employees of their schools many, depending on the value of their education and athletic scholarship, will be liable for taxes on that benefit unless the tax code gets changed.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I guess I'd question the notion of them being "employees".

There are around a half million students in the country who play interscholastic sports. The vast majority will never make enough money in that endeavor for them to think of themselves as employees or having that job.

Maybe the few percent that do have to start paying taxes on their tuition credits. For the majority, nothing changes...

 

[Thecycle27]

I don’t think you can classify certain sports as employees and others as students.

The main issue does the University direct the student athlete in an effort to make money. There is no way around it schools are in complete control of the student athlete. The school dictates an athletes day. Doesn’t matter if the softball program makes zero money the school is in direct control of that individual. Maybe they could sell the athletes are independent contractors with the new transfer rules. They are technically free to move around.

The law is pretty clear. Fed Ex used independent contractors for years they had to change because it was proven Fed Ex directed the independent contractors day, week, and month. Their solution was assign lanes to a contractor and have them direct the workforce.

I tend to agree the kids aren’t employees they are student learning to become a professional at something no different than any other student. The law however is tough to avoid when they are making money due to the student athletes work.

 

[fredburgcard]

I guess I'd question the notion of them being "employees".

There are around a half million students in the country who play interscholastic sports. The vast majority will never make enough money in that endeavor for them to think of themselves as employees or having that job.

Maybe the few percent that do have to start paying taxes on their tuition credits. For the majority, nothing changes...

That’s what the courts are looking at: Are they employees? The plaintiffs are arguing all college athletes are employees and entitled to the protections of the Fair Labor Standards Act and other labor laws, including minimum wage laws. Doesn’t matter if the athlete is a 5 star QB getting a million in NIL money or a walk on member of the women’s lacrosse team. And remember Title IX already requires a relatively equal number of males and females getting athletic scholarships. So you can’t just cut non-revenue sports.

 

[beantowncard]

The problem with college tuition and the government is they both keep making things worse. There is plenty of grant money for the underprivileged they have no worries. It is the middle class kids who are victims. The government keeps increasing the amount of grant money and every time they do that the colleges increase the tuition cost to eat up the grant money. Everyone would be better off if the government would just stay out of it.

Working together to rip off the people. That’s teamwork!

 

[beantowncard]

I don’t think you can classify certain sports as employees and others as students.

The main issue does the University direct the student athlete in an effort to make money. There is no way around it schools are in complete control of the student athlete. The school dictates an athletes day. Doesn’t matter if the softball program makes zero money the school is in direct control of that individual. Maybe they could sell the athletes are independent contractors with the new transfer rules. They are technically free to move around.

The law is pretty clear. Fed Ex used independent contractors for years they had to change because it was proven Fed Ex directed the independent contractors day, week, and month. Their solution was assign lanes to a contractor and have them direct the workforce.

I tend to agree the kids aren’t employees they are student learning to become a professional at something no different than any other student. The law however is tough to avoid when they are making money due to the student athletes work.

That means athletes would have to pay their own room and board, tuition, books, and….TAXES

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

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