You certainly did overlook something. Kobe Smith isn't in the 2017 class he is in the 2016 class. Look him up
KSR at it again
- Thread starter REDFISTFURY3
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You certainly did overlook something. Kobe Smith isn't in the 2017 class he is in the 2016 class. Look him up
"We see what we want to see...." couldn't be more appropriate. There are some good knowledgable football fans on this board that can be objective about their biggest rivals while still maintaing a more optimistic, slightly cool aid drinking view of their own team. You, Zipp, clearly missed that day in school.
To continue to maintain their hasn't been a night and day change in the level of talent Stoops(or Stupes) and Marrow are bringing to UK and upward trajection of the program as a whole is pure dillusion. the fact you use the argument that only 3 of the 10 4 star recruits from UK's 2014 class are running first string just reiterates how ridiculous you are. 4 redshirted by the way and All are in the two deep as either true sophs or redshirt fresheman. The fact Stoops has brought in approx 20 4 star players in three years while only around 10 4 stars signed in the previous 10 years combined, and we just invested 150MM into the stadium and football complex shows an unprecendented level of support from the admin.
The foundation is being laid but is still not settled. Continued loses and the field and losing Stoops/Marrow could undercut the progress. And that's what you need to hope for. Because if Stoops stays you are going to see an entirely new level of player and success at UK that hasn't been around in mass since the late 70's when we were winning SEC championships(while cheating of course.) But I have no doubt you'll spew the same nonsense outwardly even if you see the changes coming.
CatD you know this works both ways. The Cats got a win or two that could have gone the other way. And in those games where UK might have failed to make an easy play, there were more than likely easy plays the other team didn't make too.
Every play counts, and when the games are real close, which many are, every second on the clock counts.
I am not going to throw anything at you I can't back up, I didn't get a chance to see you guys play every game. Ending the season on a six game losing streak feels like it took some of the shine away.
Either way hope you post around here during the season it's good traffic.
bla bla bla Whatever helps you sleep at night man. You're a funny guy. So what you are trying to tell me is that if I took a team full of 5.5 3 stars against a team full of 5.7 3 stars you'd win 50% of the games? I also noticed you didn't say anything about the Joker vs Stoops offer sheet. Because you can't. You also can't defend a 17th ranked class vs. a 52nd ranked class(Joker's last year I believe). Or even a 40th ranked class. That class had more 4 stars than Joker or Brooks had in that entire decade.
As far as defense, how about Florida (game 6)? How many did we score on UL? Even without the 14 from the defense, still got 26 on a top 10 defense.
It really doesn't matter because you gotta prove it on the field. We'll see won't we?
Pike,what the ##%$^^$# are you talking about? "When Kentucky gets back to winning sec championships"
Please tell us when uk has ever even played in the sec championship game. Heres a hint for you...uofk is tied with Vandy and Ole Miss. Good job founding member!
Please tell us when uk has ever even played in the sec championship game. Heres a hint for you...uofk is tied with Vandy and Ole Miss. Good job founding member!
Those are NOT naturally occurring results, all 5.5 or all 5.7 players. When they naturally occur--a distribution--those decimal differences become inconsequential, and averaging "stars" is a reasonable approximation as far as comparing classes. You just can't call too small a difference, like a tenth, significant. Not rocket science, but higher math that I don't expect the typical LPT fan to understand.
"Offers" don't lend themselves to making a quantitative, objective comparison. Again, I threw them in there when talking about a few kids because it was easy. YOU analyze offers for an entire class if you're panting for it.
Again, a ranking system is biased by the number of recruits committed. Stars indicate the true quality. And your last sentence here is irrelevant.
Your team sucked a lot worse in the last half vs. the first half of the season. It was like sucking vs. sucking-squared. You want me to go into that? It's fun.
LPT Football: A lesson in math...
Thought I'd also add... Unless Stupes wins six games this year, his three-year record will be worse than Joker's three years with, supposedly, a lot better players. In a fair world, Stupes' generous a$$ should be on the line.
LPT Football: Who said the world was fair?...
LPT Football: Who said the world was fair?...
Yes,
yes, When cats pause was still with Rivals it was one of the larger sites, the break from rivals probably lowered their numbers, but I assume their customers moved to other pay sites or just stayed with cats illustrated.
If we were talking basketball Id agree with you wholeheartedly. I can't do it for football, not yet.
There's still a large difference of traffic on the 2 boards.
I listen to national college shows a large part of the day. UK football fans rarely call in, while UK basketball fans are on quite a bit during season.
As a note I hope you're right, because the higher ranked UK's classes are the more attention the program will get from big time players.
Again, I've spent a lot of time in the recruiting world, I understand how it works. I don't understand why you are hung up on when rankings come out or are updated. Players are on recruiting services radar's and colleges are making connections with these kids as early as their freshman year. Coaches, players, scouts and anyone else in the world of recruiting are familiar with what everyone else is doing and what relationships have been formed. They have to be, it's their job to be informed. Coaches, and especially now Directors of Recruiting are on the phone with these recruiting services trying to sell the players on their boards. Heck, this site has even gotten in to the fray many times with players we thought Louisville could land and were undervalued and were doing it now and will do it in the future. This is a big industry with hyper-competitive personalities that are trying to gain the slightest edge. I'm surprised some are having a hard time understanding the relationship ties within college recruiting.
LSR tried to get DeVante Parker ranked a 4 star a year or 2 before he picked UofL. Some other guys we went to bat for before they committed were Vic Anderson, ace Wales, jalen Harrington, and many others. Heck, I remember Howie bragging about Garry Williams to the Rivals guys but he couldn't qualify and ended up at UK. So, its not an exact science. Although, Howie was right Garry was highly underrated. He probably wouldn't have been if he was planning to go to UK instead of first signing with UofL.
Many of the truly gifted freshmen DO come in and start or make an impact, especially when you consider how most uk fans say the talent is down from Joker's recruiting. At Louisville, the names Bridgewater, Pryor, Parker, Brown (3 of them), Miller, Gaines, Dubose, Perry, and most of the other guys who went on to become NFL draft picks make a big impact as freshmen. Maybe not true at Alabama and a few other places, but overall - yes, many of the good ones really do come in and make an impact.
Since this thread is on our former players vs our current commits does anybody know of what happened to the higher rated guys during the Joker years?
I remember one kid I think he was from Illinois who was ranked 4 stars and he ended up committing to us but he didn't have many commitable offers.
I also wonder if their is a difference between a 6.0 rated recruit vs say a 5.6 or 5.5 since it is nothing more than a few decimal points and all.
Also noticed you guys picked up some talented QB's who are 4 stars. What you guys gonna do with your squad of QB's? You guys are loaded in that department.
And yes our squad took a nose dive in some games last season. When you have little depth or just simply outmatched physically your gonna get punished as you guys saw against Georgia. Nick Chubb is just a beast and was a true freshmen.
I think during the last half of the year when we were playin poorly our closest game to winning was against you guys. So maybe we can captilize on that and give our freshmen and sophomore guys some confidence.
I think we will be lucky to go bowling this year but next season we should be much improved and make a statement as our line play will be much improved. That was the major reason why we looked so poorly in many games.
Battle is won in the trenches.
I remember one kid I think he was from Illinois who was ranked 4 stars and he ended up committing to us but he didn't have many commitable offers.
I also wonder if their is a difference between a 6.0 rated recruit vs say a 5.6 or 5.5 since it is nothing more than a few decimal points and all.
Also noticed you guys picked up some talented QB's who are 4 stars. What you guys gonna do with your squad of QB's? You guys are loaded in that department.
And yes our squad took a nose dive in some games last season. When you have little depth or just simply outmatched physically your gonna get punished as you guys saw against Georgia. Nick Chubb is just a beast and was a true freshmen.
I think during the last half of the year when we were playin poorly our closest game to winning was against you guys. So maybe we can captilize on that and give our freshmen and sophomore guys some confidence.
I think we will be lucky to go bowling this year but next season we should be much improved and make a statement as our line play will be much improved. That was the major reason why we looked so poorly in many games.
Battle is won in the trenches.
Joker won 6 games, then 5, then 2. He was getting worse every year.
Stoops won 2, then 5, then X. An upward trend. Only thing that would concern me is to win less than 5 games this year.
I've know the guys at cats pause and was told their numbers before the move. Their football recruiting content was just as valuable as any other content they provided, just like any other site.
I don't know why there is such shock to the fact sites with the higher subscriptions have more say in who gets ranked higher. Did some think a few guys at headquarters get in a room twice a year and rank players without talking with their 50+ independent business partners. Of course, the top subscription sites have more influence in the ranking process than smaller sites.
Yes that is true but not all players can do that. Boom Williams came in as a freshmen and made an impact and we had some freshmen wide Recievers do the same. It's hard for freshmen lineman to do that unless they are just physically ready. AJ Stamps came in and was immediately an impact player, best at his position for us.
I've talked to some coaches from other programs who saw the talent level at UK when Stoops first got their and they said that their was only a couple of guys on the team that you would say is SEC caliber back ups and the rest are OVC level guys.
Said that the talent pool was just enough to get you fired.
After hearing them talk about the situation hear I was of the mindset then to give the staff a few more years to get a foundation set and give their mark on the program before I'd be raising hell on the board and the phone.
"Seems to be getting better"?? You mean like the ex-defensive coordinator fielding worse defensive teams than Joker did?
If anything, you guys oughta be even more guarded than normal in your optimism. This new guy has shown virtually no in-game coaching ability.
Of course, I'm also not describing your garden variety LPT fan.
LPT Football: We seldom do what makes sense...
Stoops has had 2 classes to see the field. They redshirted many players which is the way to build a team. Are there some true freshmen that make an impact, sure. Boom Williams made a big impact last year, but most freshmen just aren't physically or mentally ready.
Stoops player development and ability to coach during games will turn out just fine
Doesn't make much difference in the SEC unless you have at least somewhat comparable players. But the Jimmys and the Joe's are being brought in.
Keep telling yourself Stoops can't coach and that he will fail because he doesn't have the coaching ability. Time will tell. And UK fans and most people that know football don't doubt Stoops ability. Unlike Zipp the mathatician
You LPT guys keep beating that redshirting-is-the-way-to-build drum. Despite the fact that recruits wanna play immediately, the good ones can, and coaches wanna win games ASAP. Anyone telling you differently is feeding you a line and buying time.
And it's just another LPT excuse to explain a lack of progress. Kids coming in now wanna play three years, get their degrees on a fast track, and make an early jump.
Strong didn't waste a year with the kids he recruited. He got results, something your guy has still not shown. Just a lotta promises and enhanced wifi.
LPT Football: And new $hitters...
And it's just another LPT excuse to explain a lack of progress. Kids coming in now wanna play three years, get their degrees on a fast track, and make an early jump.
Strong didn't waste a year with the kids he recruited. He got results, something your guy has still not shown. Just a lotta promises and enhanced wifi.
LPT Football: And new $hitters...
Of course recruits want to play immediately, all players want to start as well but thats not reality either. Coaches redshirt players because they know that a redshirt Junior or senior is more productive than a true freshman 90% of the time.
We can all agree that UK's history is not good. Many feel history will continue to repeat itself. I can appreciate UK fans excitement. They are getting better classes and that's undeniable but until it turns into wins, they have nothing but hope which is no different than any other year. I'm looking forward to seeing this play out this season and still believe you have not leveled the field with UofL. Our classes are comparable and we know what our coach can do. Game on!
And most of that thinking went out the door at the end of the last century. Which makes it fit right in with how the LPT football program is managed.
LPT Football: Leather helmets...
Zipp, You know coaches still redshirt players. Winston at FSU, Manziel, Mariota those 3 just off the top of my head. Most offensive line and defensive linemen redshirt.
And few if any good coaches do it strategically anymore. Kids come to college more ready to play, and coaches need to utilize the talent they bring. If you don't crack the two-deep, it's a relevant decision. But redshirting is not a means to an end; it's a fallback option.
Redshirting on the Decline
LPT drum bangers like you are simply out-of-step apologists for why Stupes hasn't shown more progress with allegedly much better players than what Joker left him. Of course, that excuse takes out some of the coaching variable which is your intention.
LPT Football: We also have more chairback seats...
You don't know very much about Football, or you're just hard headed Zipp. Red shirting players is what every football team does to build quality and depth, its not me covering for Stoops, its just a fact. All the good coaches redshirt, all the good programs the ones that don't do it because they can't afford to let a player sit a year. Which means you're taking a chance of wasting of year of eligibilty while the learns and puts on size, especially on linemen.
Of course an LPT fan knows more about college football...how was I forgetting that?
Simply put, YOUR guys show up not ready to contribute as freshmen. That's either testament to their ability (lack thereof) or their coaching (similar lack thereof).
Quality freshmen are playing everywhere else, like the linked article says. But the rest of us should know better than to question the knowledge and experience of an LPT football fan.
LPT Football: What we know on display...
So in your opinion redshirting is not what good programs do? Good coaches don't redshirt players?
Good programs get good players. That's the first thing you're not considering. And when I say "good players", I'm not talking about star ratings. I'm talking about kids who can compete right away against other good competition.
And when they can compete, they play--right away. Because both coaches and players want that. There's no one holding that process back or interfering. Talented kids don't wanna stay in school even four years, five years for damn sure. (Why am I having to explain that to what is probably an LPT basketball fan?)
Your thinking is at least a decade old. And I see it usually articulated by people who are buying time. "Give us time to redshirt these guys the right way." That's not the way good programs do it anymore. As I said, redshirting is only a fallback option.
LPT Football: But you said "good programs"...
Nevermind that the last 3 heisman winners redshirted, and that every program in the nation redshirts. Somehow my way of thinking is 10 years ago, but every program still does it.
You gotta do better analysis than that. If the kid can't see the field as a freshman--even a future Heisman candidate--he likely redshirts. Otherwise, he doesn't. Redshirting doesn't make the kid a Heisman candidate. Flawed logic.
Redshirting is the tail on the dog; it doesn't wag the dog.
And of course some kids redshirt. That will always be true. But the best kids consistently do not. If your kids are redshirting predominantly, they ain't that good or they don't give a damn. Neither of those bodes well for you.
LPT Football: Attitude again...
UoflL redshirts several kids out of every class especially O & D linemen. Skilled position players if ready play special teams and get spot duty.
And the ONLY reason they redshirt is they're not ready to play, pure and simple. It's not so they can get a 5th year in the program. That thinking went out a long time ago for the better programs getting the better kids.
LPT Football: And that applies to us how?...
it just eats you up Zipp, why? What do you care if UK Redshirts an entire class, I mean that's the whole point of your argument, to try and short change UK's class.
I don't understand the utter hate you have for a college program.
I don't understand the utter hate you have for a college program.
So you don't think that not being ready to play and getting a fifth year go hand in hand?? So basically you are using the fact UK is redshirting a lot of current recruits as evidence that their recruits must not be very good. Otherwise they would be playing right away. You are a conclusion in search of evidence. You do realize that recruits coming in are 18 years old and will be playing against grown men that are 21 or 22 years old that have been in a college weight program for several years, right? So, the vast majority of Linemen and many other positions still redshirt across college football. Even very good programs do this. Regardless of your snappy one liners. That is fact. The fact UK is doing this is a very good thing for the future of the program. Not an indictment against them.
you certainly have a talent for know everything about everything when you clearly don't know jack about football. Hey...take a look at your linemen recruits the last two years....you do realize EVERY ONE of your OL and DL that weren't from a junior college redshirted...don't you. I don't feel like wasting the time to look at the other positions you brought in(because you'll come up with some nonsense either way). Are these guys just no talent guys because they redshirted?? I just read a thread a while back from a UL poster lamenting the bad luck of needing to play Jamon Brown and John Miller as true freshman instead of redshirting them(your Left Tackle and Guard respectively last year in case you didn't know). the premise of the thread was that your OLine would be night and day different this year if you could have redshirted these players thus providing them a 5th year. But according to you it would have been worthless to have these two players that were drafted in the NFL for another year...
Missouri by the way had about 75 of the 85 scholarship players on their roster the last two years get Redshirts and they won the SEC East the last two years. But nobody does that anymore and is successful with it....
