We’ve seen Marrow and company offer other positional players before the major powers do so. Following a commitment to UK, select prospect’s recruiting status seems to blossom. Kentucky’s staff is being credited for its recruiting prowess. I say evaluation is actually its strength.
KSR at it again
- Thread starter REDFISTFURY3
- Start date
I would say it has more to do with the thousands of paying subscribers to these recruiting sites factoring in to player rankings. Follow the money. Recruiting services have a financial incentive to rank players higher who mention schools with large subscription totals.
Wait, so Rivals, Scout, et al just decide to give "more" credit to players who mention/commit to a certain school? Really? And lowly KENTUCKY is moving the needle?!?!? You guys are rich sometimes. Quick, somebody tell Notre Dame to quit offering our guys; they're only getting ranked higher because our fans are nuts!
I don't want to speak for Mr.Coffee, but I THINK he is saying "lowly Kentucky" (your words, not mine) is a "player" when it comes to recruiting service subscribers. I have no idea if that truly impacts player rankings, but I would definitely believe BBN certainly "moves the needle" when it comes to the number of paying subscribers.
I'm good with that "move the needle" dynamic... Nothing I love better than watching over-inflated LPT hot air balloons come crashing to earth.
LPT Football: SPLAT!!!...
LPT Football: SPLAT!!!...
Interesting you used ND as an example. ND has underperformed on the field compared with their success in recruiting rankings. How do you explain this? Could it be those rankings are influenced with the fact ND has one of the largest subscription lists for all the recruiting services?
How about these team's rankings compared with their on-field success the last 5 years? Baylor,TCU,Utah,Boise St,UCLA,Georgia Tech,Duke,mich st,Mizzu
All have had tremendous success yet have few subscribers and mediocre recruiting rankings.
Here is some of the bigger subscription schools with highly ranked classes: Florida,Michigan,ND,Nebraska,Tenn,Texas,Oklahoma
Correlation, not causation. The schools you list have bigger fan bases and better ranked recruits both mostly due to the fact that they win (historically, currently, or both).
Why work so hard to explain away UK's recruiting anyway? I'm to understand that kids from out in the state rarely amount to much, plus UK's staff hasn't proven they can do anything with good players to begin with. So again, why sweat it?
These recruiting rankings are only important to us on the boards. The coaches are paid handsomely to evaluate talent that fits their systems. Both staffs appear to be doing their jobs well.
How can you say they don't produce? Stoops has had 2 classes that could even possibly have seen the field, with a large portion of his best class red shirting. How many true Freshmen come in and make an impact?
Derington, you just contradicted your first sentence with your second two.
Again, I don't want to speak for Mr. Coffee, but...reread the OP.
We’ve seen Marrow and company offer other positional players before the major powers do so. Following a commitment to UK, select prospect’s recruiting status seems to blossom. Kentucky’s staff is being credited for its recruiting prowess. I say evaluation is actually its strength.
Actually, YOU are the one that said "ranked"... twice.
Uhhhh I think Jack is missing something. All of these players were ranked BEFORE they committed to UK.
They were ranked BEFORE they had any affiliation with ANY team. Your theory is severally flawed.
And the OP is the one who claimed select prospects recruiting seems to blossom. Maybe you should ask the OP for examples of what he is claiming.
It happens because Ohio doesn't have spring ball so the players there break onto the scene later than the rest of the country. They have strict rules about competing with pads on so I've seen where players from Ohio were kept out of competition at various camps around the country out of fear for jeopardizing their High school season. Marrow's connections in the state run so deep that he has an exhaustive list of players to bring on campus before they've ever started for their varsity team (freshmen/sophomores). In many cases we've had a lot of the top 50 players in Ohio camp at UK before most of the B1G even knew who they were so that early start gives us a big advantage in developing relationships that pay off later
Sounds like a reasonable explanation. Also would explain why UK has lost some early commits when the big boys DO coming calling, as well as why they have been able to hang on to some despite the big boy's offers.
The OP said status, as in more teams recruit them after they commit to UK.
Jack misunderstood that as rankings. I'm replying to Jack, hence why I mentioned rankings.
So I'll repeat, jacks logic couldn't be more flawed since ALL these recruits were ranked BEFORE they had ANY affiliation with ANY college.
And while Rivals does adjust rankings, they haven't done so yet this year. So Jacks logic is 100% flawed. No recruits rankings have been changed.
Jack misunderstood that as rankings. I'm replying to Jack, hence why I mentioned rankings.
So I'll repeat, jacks logic couldn't be more flawed since ALL these recruits were ranked BEFORE they had ANY affiliation with ANY college.
And while Rivals does adjust rankings, they haven't done so yet this year. So Jacks logic is 100% flawed. No recruits rankings have been changed.
Well I have to say that our 3* quarterback Kyle Bolin looked a whole lot better than your 4* quarterback Patrick Towles and that was after Towles had a whole season of playing time as compared to Bolin. I guess we will see this year, I still think the best part of sUcKs football season is the preseason.
It's hard to really analyze that just yet as his players are just now coming into their own. The 2014 class is Stoops best so far yet a vast majority of them redshirted so this will be their first year to judge them.
Bud Dupree could be held up as an example of the new staff's ability to coach and train guys for the NFL. Dupree wasn't sniffing anywhere near the first round before Stoops got there. A lot of our NFL guys are now coming back to UK to train in the off season because of our new S&C program. We'll see how it shakes out but the coaches seem pretty excited by the gains being made.
With LPT, recruiting is all about HYPE.
I heard that Tuesday was the "best day in LPT football recruiting history". Three kids committed in the 2017 class. I look on Rivals, and they have four commits in that class with an average rating of 3.00 stars. That's a LOWER rating than the LPT class this year.
And here's the list of other offers for those four kids:
Iowa (3 offers)
Toledo (3)
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
U of L
Maryland
Washington State
I've also heard there's concern about these guys decommitting.
LPT Football: Iowa and Toledo are hot after our guys...
I heard that Tuesday was the "best day in LPT football recruiting history". Three kids committed in the 2017 class. I look on Rivals, and they have four commits in that class with an average rating of 3.00 stars. That's a LOWER rating than the LPT class this year.
And here's the list of other offers for those four kids:
Iowa (3 offers)
Toledo (3)
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
U of L
Maryland
Washington State
I've also heard there's concern about these guys decommitting.
LPT Football: Iowa and Toledo are hot after our guys...
The fact the UK finally has a strength and conditioning program they think it's one of a kind. These guys buy into whatever hype the UK marketing department throws out.
With LPT, recruiting is all about HYPE.
I heard that Tuesday was the "best day in LPT football recruiting history". Three kids committed in the 2017 class. I look on Rivals, and they have four commits in that class with an average rating of 3.00 stars. That's a LOWER rating than the LPT class this year.
And here's the list of other offers for those four kids:
Iowa (3 offers)
Toledo (3)
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
U of L
Maryland
Washington State
I've also heard there's concern about these guys decommitting.
LPT Football: Iowa and Toledo are hot after our guys...
You conveniently left off the recruit that committed Wednesday, who had offers from .....Tenn, vtech, ark, vtech, wake, Miami, NC state, north Carolina, miss St, Missouri, Nebraska,etc etc.
And most kids from the 2017 class don't have a lot of offers yet, its way too early.
I'm quite certain you live in la la land. Stoops have shown over and over again that the kids he finds end up getting offers from bigger schools. Let's revisit this in a year and see what their offer sheet looks like. And those guys are 4 stars on other scouting services.With LPT, recruiting is all about HYPE.
I heard that Tuesday was the "best day in LPT football recruiting history". Three kids committed in the 2017 class. I look on Rivals, and they have four commits in that class with an average rating of 3.00 stars. That's a LOWER rating than the LPT class this year.
And here's the list of other offers for those four kids:
Iowa (3 offers)
Toledo (3)
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
U of L
Maryland
Washington State
I've also heard there's concern about these guys decommitting.
LPT Football: Iowa and Toledo are hot after our guys...
And yes, I'm sure guys who just committed are already looking to decommit
Once again, the UK talking point revolves around recruiting. Thank God for average recruits or there might be no fans at all. The delirium is pretty good stuff. We are all steadily being convinced that UK is definitely on its way upwards, lol, the plan seems to be working.
For maybe some of us, lol. Oh well, nevermind - for pretty much none of us.
For maybe some of us, lol. Oh well, nevermind - for pretty much none of us.
No kidding. And Jack just put them in their place yet they still keep coming back. When will they learn?
As sickening as this is for LPT fans, I don't overlook anything. Go to the Rivals 2017 commitment page for LPT, click on each kid as I did, and list the offers. Add them up, and you get the list I presented above. Again, I don't overlook anything.
The 250th and last kid in the 2017 Rivals 250 (Trey Blount) already has offers from Bama, Georgia, Miami, and So. Carolina. So much for that theory about "most kids".
LPT Football: Well how about this theory?...
If it's inconclusive for a year, why is your klanbase crowing about it NOW? I can hear it over here in la la land.
LPT Football: Because the world revolves around the word "recruiting"...
Klanbase comment aside - that's a pretty fair point by Zipp.
These kids flip flop on the reg. Or, end up not making it to campus for other reasons.
I got to admit though, I don't know much about any of this I just like to read my own posts.
Because we've watched time and time again the Cats get an early commit with a light offer sheet only to see UL and other P5 programs offer after. So we trust the staff, they've shown to be good talent evaluators. I'm sure Zipp will be poo pooing the 5 star that's gonna commit to us tomorrow. Your hate for UK is so pathetic that you'll never admit we're recruiting very well. I can say UL has recruited extremely well this year and still hold my head up high as a UK fan. Evidently you can't without bashing UK. I believe you actually hate UK more than you like UL...pretty obvious really.
When you actually accomplish something, I'll tell you. Your staff has shown little or nothing as far as coaching. On recruiting, your classes are marginally better than Jokers', and he got little or no support from LPT fans and the administration. I'm sorry that those are the facts...has nothing to do with emotion.
Hard for an LPT fan to grasp, but my world and my brain are large enough that I can readily accomplish both.
LPT Football: The guy's everywhere...
I don't think Jack is missing anything, Jack,like myself, is an insider in the recruiting industry. We understand how recruiting services work.
Recruiting rankings are the single biggest endeavor these web-based fan publications offer as a "product". Huge time and investment is used throughout the entire organization to produce these rankings. The actual team who creates the rankings uses many informational avenues and data points to legitimize the rankings. The ranking team relies heavily on the opinions of the local team affiliate sites to assist in the scouting process. They even dialogue with coaches/staff of some programs. Some coaching staffs find it beneficial to talk up the players they are recruiting to help increase the player's rankings. Joker Phillips was one of these coaches who lobbied to get players ranked higher. Clint Hurtt, on the other hand, tried to hide players as long as possible to fight off other programs. Coaches and recruiting services are communicating about players years before that player's ranking is made public.
Like any business, the operation is focused on maintaining the current customer base. All services, products,support functions must initially satisfy the wants and needs of the current subscriber. No successful business starts a new customer project at the expense of existing customers. Only 10-15 programs make up the vast majority of subscription revenues. The business model of theses is focused on maintaining this revenue and the the best way is to make the fans of these programs happy. You don't make fans happy with 2-3 star player rankings. If one of these 15 revenue schools has any player remotely talented enough to rank a 4 star, you can bet he's going to be a 4 star, especially before a player equally talented who isn't involved with one of the big revenue schools.
Marginally better recruiting? yeah ok. See this is why everyone knows you are a joke, you live in this alter universe where 50th ranked classes are marginally worse than say a 17th ranked class, or a 29th ranked class. Or currently a 12th ranked class. Those are actually facts, not the drivel you tell yourself to feel better.
Going from 2 wins to 5 wins is showing better coaching. And a couple of easy interceptions away from 7 wins...in year 2, with a roster full of young guys and castoffs from Joker's years.
Time will tell if these guys are going to be good coaches, but I feel pretty confident they will be. Recruiting is where it starts though, and so far these guys are getting an A
Joker's classes averaged 2.8, 3.0, and 2.9 stars in his three years with NO support from anyone. Stupes' three classes were 3.1, 3.3, and 3.0 stars. I've done the analysis before: a tenth or two difference in the "stars" between recruiting classes is not statistically significant. (Don't ask me to explain what that means...)
In that middle 3.3-star class for Stupes in 2014, only three of the ten 4-star kids in that class are #1 on the LPT depth chart per Rivals.
Is that enough facts?
I've heard all of that rewriting of Joker's history stuff. I can almost recite it back to you. Going from 2 to 5 wins was a function of a $hit schedule the 1st half of your year. When the competition stiffened up, the losing streak started. Those facts suck too.
That's not confidence, it's LPT hope. We've been hearing it for decades. And your obsession with recruiting is typical and a big part of your problem.
LPT Football: Recognition is the first step...
You know that each 3, 4 and 5 star also have a numerical value too. There's a big difference between a 5.5 3 star and a 5.7 3 star, look it up. So averaging stars doesn't tell the whole story at all. Once again, your head is in the sand if you don't think Stoops has improved UK's recruiting dramatically. Since you were so quick to bring up the offer sheet for UK's 2017 recruits why don't you look at the offer sheet for Joker's recruits vs Stoops recruits. I'm sure you'll have some other lame excuse. When your analysis already has a predetermined outcome you'll see what you want to see.
Are you seriously gonna talk about a $hit schedule as a UL fan? Seriously? Seriously. And it's not like our schedule has changed since those 2 win seasons.
Are you seriously gonna talk about a $hit schedule as a UL fan? Seriously? Seriously. And it's not like our schedule has changed since those 2 win seasons.
Actually it does pretty well. As long as you have enough data averaged in. You can't compare one 3-star kid to another without more resolution. But those decimal ratings mostly average out over an entire class. Unfortunately for you, I know exactly how the process and math work.
I just know what the numbers say. I didn't need to cite offers for the 2017 LPT kids; that was just icing on the cake and easy to do for just a few kids. Hurl insults when you don't have facts--typical for LPT fans.
Your first six football games last year as a group was garbage, esp. from a defensive standpoint. Those six teams couldn't stop water from running. And your offense looked great as a result. Towles' QB rating was 50 freaking points lower from the first to the last half of the season.
Again, I know the facts... I don't trust my eyes like LPT fans.
LPT football: We see what we want to see...
I'm not giving an opinion. I'm stating fact. These kids were ranked BEFORE they had any affiliation with a college. That means that Rivals didn't know where they were going, UK coaches didn't know where they were going, and the player didn't even know.
There can't possibly be ANY favoritism when you don't know who to favor.
Jack then asserted that AFTER these kids pick UK their ranking is inflated. If you and Jack are "recruiting insiders" as you said, you would know that Rivals hasn't adjusted recruiting rankings yet.
They will, and AT THAT TIME, you could then argue that Recruits rankings are inflated based on subscriber number. But AS OF NOW that's physically impossible.
