Infraction Rulings Released at 11am today

[Steelers2012]

Today is the day we find out what the NCAA has to say, with a teleconference at noon and a UofL press conference at 12:30.

The NCAA will release its ruling in the Louisville basketball infractions case at 11 a.m. Thursday, the organization announced this morning.

A teleconference featuring Carol Cartwright, the president emeritus of Bowling Green and Kent State and chief hearing officer for the NCAA's Committee on Infractions panel for U of L's case, is set for noon.

U of L announced its own 12:30 p.m. press conference with interim president Greg Postel, athletics director Tom Jurich and head basketball coach Rick Pitino.

 

[nccardfan]

Finally hoping we can get past this dark cloud and there's a rainbow out there.

 

[CardVille]

Penalties prescribed by the panel include four years of probation for the university; a suspension from the first five Atlantic Coast Conference games of the 2017-18 season for the head coach; a 10-year show-cause order for the former operations director; a one-year show-cause order for a former program assistant; a vacation of basketball records in which student-athletes competed while ineligible from December 2010 and July 2014; men’s basketball scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions; a fine of $5,000, plus the university must return money received through conference revenue sharing for its appearances in the 2012 to 2015 NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championships. The panel also accepted the university’s self-imposed 2015-16 postseason ban.

 

[Big_Tasty_Muffin]

" A vacation of basketball records in which student-athletes competed while ineligible from December 2010 and July 2014"

This is the biggest issue and to me a very grey area. Did any player really receive a benefit? It was my understanding that McGee provided the money to Katina Powell and company not the players. Does attending a party constitute as a benefit? I understand it sounds bad if you read the headlines that players had parties with strippers. But they were not the first college students to do that and they won't be the last.

 

[Morgantown Card]

My take:

Going forward, the university is in the clear. The recruiting classes as they are, are saved. No more post-season bans. A 5 game conference suspension is t.b.d. as it will be as good or bad as they play.

Retroactively, the University basically gets to pick which wins to vacate based on participation of ineligible athletes. It has 45 days to tell the NCAA who these athletes are and which games to vacate. In other words, no banner or championships are being removed.

 

[Kratz]

Sounds to me like they're taking the title away

 

[nccardfan]

Penalties prescribed by the panel include four years of probation for the university; a suspension from the first five Atlantic Coast Conference games of the 2017-18 season for the head coach; a 10-year show-cause order for the former operations director; a one-year show-cause order for a former program assistant; a vacation of basketball records in which student-athletes competed while ineligible from December 2010 and July 2014; men’s basketball scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions; a fine of $5,000, plus the university must return money received through conference revenue sharing for its appearances in the 2012 to 2015 NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championships. The panel also accepted the university’s self-imposed 2015-16 postseason ban.

The issue here is if all games are vacated from 2010 to 2014, what does that say about the 2013 NC?

 

[HoptownCat93]

If you all got this, then I'm hoping UNC gets the death penalty because their infractions were far worse over a long period of time.

 

[Morgantown Card]

Sounds to me like they're taking the title away

Disagree.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Without bias it doesn't sound good to me

 

[Steelers2012]

My best guess is...that "if" they have confirmation (proof) any participating member of any team for that time period was involved in the activities, then those games (and titles) will be vacated. I believe that Powell claims Harrell, Behanon, Mangok, and Smith all participated. I guess the determining factor will be do they have confirming proof. That will come in UofL's response.

 

[ThroughBlue]

My best guess is...that "if" they have confirmation (proof) any participating member of any team for that time period was involved in the activities, then those games (and titles) will be vacated. I believe that Powell claims Harrell, Behanon, Mangok, and Smith all participated. I guess the determining factor will be do they have confirming proof. That will come in UofL's response.

This they will have to show some sort of proof besides taking a whore at her word.

 

[nccardfan]

If you all got this, then I'm hoping UNC gets the death penalty because their infractions were far worse over a long period of time.

Different discussion. Doesn't need to be brought up.

 

[seashore]

My 60+ years as a fan are over. Tired of it. This is it. Anybody want to buy 6 football tickets? 2 are 10 rows up 50 yard line. Others are in 213. 2 Green lot A parking passes. Also, 4 mbb tickets. 10 rows up on the aisle 101. parking pass. haven't decided about wbb. It's over. No more. Glad my father didn't live to see this year.

 

[Kratz]

Disagree.

Hope you're right, but some of the names I've heard include Russ Smith, Behanan, and Harrell. All 3 played in the title game.

 

[GOCARDS6]

Good grief, between this and the audit WTF is going on?

 

[HoptownCat93]

Different discussion. Doesn't need to be brought up.

Considering you all could vacate 3 seasons, 4 seasons probation, lose a title, miss a tournament where you all could have won, and have your coach suspended for 5 games...all for a very small amount of money.

When UNC has run a fraud University for its athletes who could not even send them easy classes and make them at least look legit...

It is not a different discussion because they have gotten away with a fraud for over 30 years where you all had a rogue coach give a few hundred dollars and you all get harsh penalties. The NCAA better be fair in the instance.

 

[Big_Tasty_Muffin]

My 60+ years as a fan are over. Tired of it. This is it. Anybody want to buy 6 football tickets? 2 are 10 rows up 50 yard line. Others are in 213. 2 Green lot A parking passes. Also, 4 mbb tickets. 10 rows up on the aisle 101. parking pass. haven't decided about wbb. It's over. No more. Glad my father didn't live to see this year.

Im interested how much?

 

[arizan]

If the NCAA had concrete proof a player participated, they wouldn't ask UofL for a list of vacated games, they'd announce the games lost themselves. Whenever other teams have been punished for ineligible players, the specific number of games vacated is always mentioned right away. I doubt UofL will vacate their own accomplishments on she said evidence.

 

[Steelers2012]

If the NCAA had concrete proof a player participated, they wouldn't ask UofL for a list of vacated games, they'd announce the games lost themselves. Whenever other teams have been punished for ineligible players, the specific number of games vacated is always mentioned right away. I doubt UofL will vacate their own accomplishments on she said evidence.

True. But I also doubt the NCAA would include the vacating of games clause if they didn't have some indication that active players (not just recruits) MAY have been involved. IMO, it all comes down to whether they (or even UofL) has confirmation active players were involved.

 

[Cue Card]

My best guess is...that "if" they have confirmation (proof) any participating member of any team for that time period was involved in the activities, then those games (and titles) will be vacated. I believe that Powell claims Harrell, Behanon, Mangok, and Smith all participated. I guess the determining factor will be do they have confirming proof. That will come in UofL's response.

That's exactly how I see it too. This will turn into a he said/she said situation and as long as there isn't any actual proof of any former players (who played) gettings laid by Powell's skanks during the listed timeframe, then this goes away. Since McGee nor Powell were charged with breaking the law, I don't see how there is any proof for who attended and who didn't or when. Lots of smoke but no fire that I can see.

 

[TheRealVille]

Hope you're right, but some of the names I've heard include Russ Smith, Behanan, and Harrell. All 3 played in the title game.

Yes, but these players wouldn't have been suspended every game if the infractions were discovered that championship season. I think that's what it will come down to. UofL will pick the games to vacate and hopefully the NCAA will accept. So those games would likely be in November and December.

I'm just guessing here because it's hard to believe every single game played with these players would be vacated. We're talking over 100 wins, two final 4's and a national title. I can't see any justification for that many penalties for such a low dollar infraction.

If it indeed does the NCAA will have to do as much if not more to UNC. I think every fair minded person has to agree the NCAA is wanting to set an example and UofL just so happens to be the case. I think Rick Pitino has had about enough of the NCAA and Tom Jurich is already looking into the next coach. It's not right or fair but when has life ever been fair?

And Andre McGee will never show his face in this city again with so much carnage he has caused. What penalties are he suffering? Can't coach again? Please....

 

[KozmasAgain]

I know this is a dumb question but does 4 years probation mean we are banned from the NCAA tournament for 4 years?

 

[Kratz]

Just thinking out loud here, but all this might be a case of "be careful what you wish for". When everything first broke and Damien and Trey weren't going to the tournament everyone said it was unfair to punish current players for something that was in the past, and they had nothing to do with. It was screamed loud and far by many people.

Perhaps the NCAA used that thought process and gave those people what they wanted: The final punishment only deals with the past. It doesn't impact any player on this team.

 

[Kratz]

I know this is a dumb question but does 4 years probation mean we are banned from the NCAA tournament for 4 years?

No. It's like being on probation from jail. You're free, but if you mess up again you get in a whole lot more trouble.

 

[Cue Card]

I know this is a dumb question but does 4 years probation mean we are banned from the NCAA tournament for 4 years?

Nope. No post season ban. The 4 years probation just means IF something else goes down during the 4 years, then the program will be in deep poo.

 

[nccardfan]

I know this is a dumb question but does 4 years probation mean we are banned from the NCAA tournament for 4 years?

No. Means exactly that if we suffer another major violation then we will be subject to more penalties possibly including postseason bans, loss of more scholarships...

 

[eastwood45789]

They should never have gone along with any of this. North Carolina never would have..

 

[Kratz]

Yes, but these players wouldn't have been suspended every game if the infractions were discovered that championship season. I think that's what it will come down to. UofL will pick the games to vacate and hopefully the NCAA will accept. So those games would likely be in November and December.

I'm just guessing here because it's hard to believe every single game played with these players would be vacated. We're talking over 100 wins, two final 4's and a national title. I can't see any justification for that many penalties for such a low dollar infraction.

If it indeed does the NCAA will have to do as much if not more to UNC. I think every fair minded person has to agree the NCAA is wanting to set an example and UofL just so happens to be the case. I think Rick Pitino has had about enough of the NCAA and Tom Jurich is already looking into the next coach. It's not right or fair but when has life ever been fair?

And Andre McGee will never show his face in this city again with so much carnage he has caused. What penalties are he suffering? Can't coach again? Please....

No one knows how long they would have been suspended. They could have been declared permanently ineligible. Happens all the time. Enis Kanter was never allowed to play at UK. Muhammed Lasage was declared permanently ineligible at UofL.

 

[83Cat]

Yes, but these players wouldn't have been suspended every game if the infractions were discovered that championship season. I think that's what it will come down to. UofL will pick the games to vacate and hopefully the NCAA will accept. So those games would likely be in November and December.

I'm just guessing here because it's hard to believe every single game played with these players would be vacated. We're talking over 100 wins, two final 4's and a national title. I can't see any justification for that many penalties for such a low dollar infraction.

If it indeed does the NCAA will have to do as much if not more to UNC. I think every fair minded person has to agree the NCAA is wanting to set an example and UofL just so happens to be the case. I think Rick Pitino has had about enough of the NCAA and Tom Jurich is already looking into the next coach. It's not right or fair but when has life ever been fair?

And Andre McGee will never show his face in this city again with so much carnage he has caused. What penalties are he suffering? Can't coach again? Please....

I think the issue will be that if the players at "fault" played in ANY games during that season, they could have affected the seeding of the team in the tourney and therefore provide a "flawed" tournament schedule. There could have been a very BAD LOSS in November or December that would have given UL a much worse seeding if the players were not in the game. Every game in the NCAA would be flawed because they would have been scheduled differently. The regular season peppered with any ineligible players at any given time flaws the tournament. (In the NCAA's view).

 

[MdWIldcat55]

My best guess is...that "if" they have confirmation (proof) any participating member of any team for that time period was involved in the activities, then those games (and titles) will be vacated. I believe that Powell claims Harrell, Behanon, Mangok, and Smith all participated. I guess the determining factor will be do they have confirming proof. That will come in UofL's response.

Not looking to start a fight, but isn't there a PRESUMPTION that the players identified are part of the confirmed violations? If participation of those players was still not confirmed, the NCAA would have no basis to impose ANY penalties, as there would be no confirmed violation. It'd just be an uncorroborated allegation, and you can't be penalized for that.

 

[nccardfan]

That's exactly I see it too. This will turn into a he said/she said situation and as long as there isn't any actual proof of any former players (who played) gettings laid by Powell's skanks during the listed timeframe, then this goes away. Since McGee nor Powell were charged with breaking the law, I don't see how there is any proof for who attended and who didn't or when. Lots of smoke but no fire that I can see.

My biggest fear is that they already have the names of the players who were on the current roster at the time based on interviews conducted with recruits and players. This is just another opportunity for U of L to come clean and see if they release any names. If they don't U of L's internal investigation did not go far enough.

 

[Big_Tasty_Muffin]

@83Cat This is extremely subjective. NO ONE can clearly say if player X didn't play the team would have lost. I don't care who it is. You could equally argue that the player being replaced by a bench player would have a better game than player X. Is it likely that happens...no. But there have been lots of instances where it has bench players have out performed a starter or two.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

What a sad day this is for UofL fans. None of us wanted any of this, we just want to cheer on our team.

 

[CardVille]

title is gone, will still be in record books but with an * next to it.

we are getting hit harder than expected but at least its over

 

[Cue Card]

My biggest fear is that they already have the names of the players who were on the current roster at the time based on interviews conducted with recruits and players. This is just another opportunity for U of L to come clean and see if they release any names. If they don't U of L's internal investigation did not go far enough.

Absolutely agree. I still feel that if the NCAA already had names associated with the infraction(s), then they would have chosen which games to vacate without asking the University to provide a list. Just quickly looking at the box score versus the roster for the title game - Zach Price, Jordan Bond, Michael Baffour, Logan Baumann and Kevin Ware did not PLAY in the title game. See how this is going to go?

 

[Kratz]

It's not over. Watching the presser now. Appeal is already in the works.

 

[Morgantown Card]

Common sense should apply here, ie, "Hey, NCAA, did you see those nasty, ugly, stanky, skank trick-@ss ho's? Ain't no way them ho's any benefit to anybody!"

 

[Cue Card]

Common sense should apply here, ie, "Hey, NCAA, did you see those nasty, ugly, stanky, skank trick-@ss ho's? Ain't no way them ho's any benefit to anybody!"

Other than maybe the doctor who got paid to clear up the STD's.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

Yeah, this is far from over, but there's going to be a dark cloud hanging over the program for years to come. I wonder if some of this will trickle out into legal courtrooms eventually.