Well...

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I get it, but are you excusing behavior that jeopardizes your future because someone doesn't want to follow rules?

That's what it boils down, following rules. No matter whether we think pot should be legal or not, it isn't. And it's against the NCAA and/or schools rules.

Dude I'm saying they don't fully conceptualize the consequences of their bad decisions yet - so they don't fully understand the rules. It doesn't matter how many times a coach tells them don't do ______.....

In the end they got to learn on their own. Sometimes the real hard way.

 

[Bill Derington]

I'm not disgusted at the act of smoking weed, that's not what I'm getting at. I'm disgusted at how careless some of the kids, and even grown men in the NFL are with the wonderful oppurtunity they have.

I know college kids are smoking weed, rumor is some of them even have premarital sex . We are over and over and it's like c'mon guys it's not that hard to refrain especially if they've already been in trouble before over it.

 

[Bill Derington]

Dude I'm saying they don't fully conceptualize the consequences of their bad decisions yet - so they don't fully understand the rules. It doesn't matter how many times a coach tells them don't do ______.....

In the end they got to learn on their own. Sometimes the real hard way.

You're exactly right, I'm not trying to say you're wrong.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I said that because it's my opinion that Petrino lets a lot of things go.

He suspended Quick last year. He suspended Ross in January of 2015 when he had a problem with the law.

You're deflecting, and posters that go off topic and change the topic look weak to the readers.

It's not like anybody has insulted UK or the players in question really. You're just using deflection as a defense mechanism because you must not have any defense to directly discuss the topic and you don't like that.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

You're exactly right, I'm not trying to say you're wrong.

It's a shame. But really, like I've said I don't get too frustrated because I understand the background of these guys. They are used to anything goes mostly, and by leaving parental supervision for the first time there's going to be incredible freedoms that are going to ultimately lead to problems.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

I think someone may have touched on this already, but there is also the culture of enablers that these players experience throughout their lives, once their talent is discovered.

This goes back a ways, but I remember Darryl Strawberry was once arrested, I think for reckless driving and maybe some other stuff. Anyway, he was reportedly quoted as saying something at the scene of his arrest to the effect of, "What's it going to take to make this all go away?"

And that's just the way it is a lot of times. Things get swept under the carpet. Or a player receives some minor punishment that doesn't really hurt them. When the punishment doesn't hurt much, it's like giving the guy a wink and a green light to continue on.

After going through a whole life of having problems covered up or made to disappear, a lot of these guys probably feel justified in assuming they can do whatever they want and not have to face consequences. Unfortunately for some, they eventually go over the line and get some real consequences.

I have no idea if Hatcher falls into this mold, or what he did to get a 2-game suspension. Hopefully the 2-game suspension will be enough to give that kid a wake-up call and get his life straightened out with whatever's going wrong. Something tells me a 2-game suspension is more of a green-light scenario.

 

[Steelers2012]

I said that because it's my opinion that Petrino lets a lot of things go. I have that opinion because when he left the first time Kragthorpe came in an was vocal about the types of things that were going on in the locker room. There were very few suspensions or public acts of discipline at that time under Petrino. Maybe Petrino runs his players to death but very few guys miss games or are dismissed. I didn't even want to share that opinion here but you kept pressing me on it. It is only my opinion of course that doesn't make me right or wrong.

So, in your mind, a lack of suspension or public acts of discipline equates to Petrino letting a lot of things go? By that way of thinking, more suspensions or dismissals equates to a a greater level of team discipline? I don't get your correlation? It's really a simple explanation of the difference between Petrino and Kragthorpe. Petrino ruled with a iron fist, and kept guys in line. Kragthorpe ruled with a limp wrist and lost team discipline from his first day on the job.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

So, in your mind, a lack of suspension or public acts of discipline equates to Petrino letting a lot of things go?

Right. So you could turn around and tell him the reason UK basketball doesn't have any suspensions or acts of discipline is because Calipari lets lots of things go.

Can't be that though because they are all really good kids.

No really I think all these kids are good kids for the most part - they just make bad decisions.

Like I said, Quick and Ross got suspended last year, that is evidence Petrino suspends guys.

 

[zipp]

So, in your mind, a lack of suspension or public acts of discipline equates to Petrino letting a lot of things go? By that way of thinking, more suspensions or dismissals equates to a a greater level of team discipline? I don't get your correlation? It's really a simple explanation of the difference between Petrino and Kragthorpe. Petrino ruled with a iron fist, and kept guys in line. Kragthorpe ruled with a limp wrist and lost team discipline from his first day on the job.

Sounds like LPT may have another K-rag on their hands in Stupes.

Also, there was a conscientious effort by U of L to throw Petrino under the bus when K-rag was losing control of the situation. Whatever football info you got from U of L at that time is questionable.

I was the most concerned that Boy Genius had some insider U of L football knowledge.

LPT Football: We know more about your program than we know about ourselves...

 

[Stonewall12]

Signed,
Jason Hatcher

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...rinity-alum-hatcher-suspended-at-uk/31338889/

Ok two games.... We will be fine. One is ULL.

 

[CardFan1130]

Let me guess: his replacement is better and you don't need him anyway.

 

[Cue Card]

Ok two games.... We will be fine. One is ULL.

ULL went 9-4 last year. I wouldn't be so quick to place the outcome of that game into the win column for UofK until it actually happens. It might not.

 

[Cardsmack29]

But ULL isn't a power five team so they must be an easy W.....right?

WKU is looking back laughing. ULL will not be a pushover.

 

[Cardfan1963]

Kentucky will be more than fine.

Of course they will. They are looking forward to next year's summer champions tour already.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

ULL went 9-4 last year. I wouldn't be so quick to place the outcome of that game into the win column for UofK until it actually happens. It might not.

Isn't it funny, Cue Card, how confident UK fans always are? Player suspended, guys leaving the program. No problem! "We will be fine." Nothing seems to be able to penetrate the dream world. At least, not until the games start.

 

[CardFanBudMan]

Being a perennial SEC doormat the Cayuts have the same problem we had in CUSA. They have to take chances on kids to get good players. As we know, that falls short too many times. Thankfully, we no longer have to do that.

 

[Pervis_Griffith]

Being a perennial SEC doormat the Cayuts have the same problem we had in CUSA. They have to take chances on kids to get good players. As we know, that falls short too many times. Thankfully, we no longer have to do that.

So true ... I'm truly surprised at how well Petrino has done with recruiting in his second stint. And it's no coincidence that his second stint coincides with our entry in the ACC.

Out of curiosity, if any of the recruiting gurus on our site can figure it out, how does losing those four 4-star recruits out of that class, impact the ranking for UK? Is this easy to figure out?

 

[Pike 96]

My lord dude you are a grown adult and these guys are just now out on their own for the first time. Of course you don't see the world today the way they see it today.

And when they become your age most of them will see the world the same way as you see it now.

They are kids. And you aren't.

Lordy.

I agree with Bill completely on this... yes, these guys are kids and yes they will make mistakes. But it's not like these guys aren't getting guidance. they have these coaches and compliance people all over them on what they can't do and what the consequences will be. If you are 18 year plus and you are old enough to go fight a war for your country you sure as hell are old enough to put the joint down if it means you are jeopardizing your future and your commitment to those around you. ESPECIALLY so if you are caught doing the same thing multiple times!

I agree with watson...these guys are treated so differently growing up because of their talent that they don't think normal rules apply to them. Most realize after a warning or two...some don't

 

[Cue Card]

Out of curiosity, if any of the recruiting gurus on our site can figure it out, how does losing those four 4-star recruits out of that class, impact the ranking for UK? Is this easy to figure out?

It had to impact the overall ranking but IMO it doesn't matter. what matter is how well the coaches develop the kids they get in uniform. Stoops went from 2-10 to 5-7 last year but people tend to forget UofK was 5-1 at one time. UofK got worse as the year unfolded. Maybe it was due to a lack of depth. 7-17 going into year 3 isn't all that great IMO. He needs to show significant improvement in year 3 to convince me he's a good coach.

 

[Pike 96]

Isn't it funny, Cue Card, how confident UK fans always are? Player suspended, guys leaving the program. No problem! "We will be fine." Nothing seems to be able to penetrate the dream world. At least, not until the games start.

UK has lost 3 players from their 2014 recruiting class that was ranked #17 in the country. Tubman, Krok, and now Richardson. Of Those i think Tubman hurt the worst because he was said to have a very high ceiling at Rush DEnd. Those guys are hard to find. Krok probably hurt second most because he was an Offensive tackle and we arent very deep at Tackle. Richardson, although a 4 star out of high school, hadn't gained any weight to date after a redshirt and was still listed at 285lbs. Hate to lose anyone after only their RS FR year, but he is at position that is far and away the deepest on our Offensive line. (OG). We still have 9 four star players from that 2014 class around.

Provitt and Gossier not making it is unfortunate(especially Provitt at DT) but they are only two of 22 signed. That totals 5 of 50 recruits that didn't make it from the last two classes. Not an overly high percentage.

Let's look at UL in the same timeframe:

UL signed 25 guys in 2014 and have lost 5 of them so far(from what i gather...may be wrong).
Polk, Ramsey Pridgen, Rhaheed(who was probably best player in class), Terry, and Thibodeux(who was only DT and that is probably your lowest depth position)
2015 only one of 24 didn't make it. James Allen.

that makes 6 of 49 players to attrite in 2 years verses UK's 5 of 50.

UL also has had 12 JC's the last two classes. that means they will need to get production from those guys quickly as they will most all fall off by end of next year.

 

[Cardsmack29]

I won't dispute those numbers at all because it's really trivial but you can bank on nearly allof the jucos that were brought in last season will be impact players this season. There is no waiting for them at the moment. From what I've heard, they are all going to be impact players and a couple are already getting high draft expectations.

I'm not sure if you're bashing the juco player option or not with the above statement but if you are, it's not in your best interest.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

But it's not like these guys aren't getting guidance. they have these coaches and compliance people all over them on what they can't do and what the consequences will be. If you are 18 year plus and you are old enough to go fight a war for your country you sure as hell are old enough to put the joint down

At least we're having a friendly conversation here.

Again, it's not that I'm saying Bill is "wrong" - what I am saying is regardless of consequences teens/young adults are ultimately going to make bad decisions.

We also can't be for sure that they are getting the guidance we think and hope they are getting - and that's not a statement to call out any program specifically.

College football is "big business" and priorities are lined up to that. Not just at Louisville. Not just at LSU. Not just at FSU. It's a national concept.

Yes, as we sit over here in our grown aged years it is pretty easy for us to do the right thing but we are not campus celebrities 19 yrs old and/or on covers of video games and ESPN.com, etc.

 

[zipp]

...I'm not sure if you're bashing the juco player option or not with the above statement but if you are, it's not in your best interest.

An LPT fan's frame of reference is what happens at LPT. Jucos and most transfers would be crazy to even consider them as a destination.

LPT Football: We're lucky to land oblivious freshmen...

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

that makes 6 of 49 players to attrite in 2 years verses UK's 5 of 50.

You can't really compare the 2 programs in this way, it's apples and oranges. Louisville had a new coaching hire the 1st year of your comparison, of course there will be attrition from that. Players that are good but don't fit into the new system are going to leave. How many guys left UK the year Stoops was hired? Why not give us the 3 year evaluation instead of the only evaluation time-frame that appears to favor UK?

Unless my Math is off, a guy leaving as a RS Freshman this year is someone Stoops actually recruited, presumably with a plan other than padding star ratings. Things didn't work out. My question is, did they not work out because of the kid, or because of a failure in Stoops' development process? It's too early to say Stoops can't develop guys, but it could be a sign. Signing great talent is an achievement, but getting that talent developed and on the field is a whole other process. Translating a 4-star signing into a productive contributor on the field is a big part of Stoops job, and it didn't happen with this kid.

 

[Pervis_Griffith]

UK has lost 3 players from their 2014 recruiting class that was ranked #17 in the country. Tubman, Krok, and now Richardson. Of Those i think Tubman hurt the worst because he was said to have a very high ceiling at Rush DEnd. Those guys are hard to find. Krok probably hurt second most because he was an Offensive tackle and we arent very deep at Tackle. Richardson, although a 4 star out of high school, hadn't gained any weight to date after a redshirt and was still listed at 285lbs. Hate to lose anyone after only their RS FR year, but he is at position that is far and away the deepest on our Offensive line. (OG). We still have 9 four star players from that 2014 class around.

Provitt and Gossier not making it is unfortunate(especially Provitt at DT) but they are only two of 22 signed. That totals 5 of 50 recruits that didn't make it from the last two classes. Not an overly high percentage.

Let's look at UL in the same timeframe:

UL signed 25 guys in 2014 and have lost 5 of them so far(from what i gather...may be wrong).
Polk, Ramsey Pridgen, Rhaheed(who was probably best player in class), Terry, and Thibodeux(who was only DT and that is probably your lowest depth position)
2015 only one of 24 didn't make it. James Allen.

that makes 6 of 49 players to attrite in 2 years verses UK's 5 of 50.

UL also has had 12 JC's the last two classes. that means they will need to get production from those guys quickly as they will most all fall off by end of next year.

Are you not counting the JUCO's as part of those classes?

James Sample was in last year's class, and was drafted in the NFL draft this past spring. He has to count ... BUT ... he contributed to one of the best defenses in the country in the year he played. So to count him as negative attrition is silly. Poly, Ramsey Pridgen, Rhaheed, Terry and Thibodeux -- none of these guys were 4 star rated. Which is the end all, be all of the recruiting success that has been trumpeted out of Lexington since Stoops got there. The losses to the evaluated ranking of U of L's class, not hit tot he degree that UK's has been.

Anyone who has paid attention to what I have said about recruiting -- and especially football recruiting -- knows I give two flips about star ratings, and class rankings. I honestly think they don't mean much at all.

BUT .. this is what UK fans have hung their hat on. And THIS is why I ask the questions about effected ranking.

 

[Pervis_Griffith]

An LPT fan's frame of reference is what happens at LPT. Jucos and most transfers would be crazy to even consider them as a destination.

LPT Football: We're lucky to land oblivious freshmen...

You can add DESPERATE to that list of crazy zipp.

 

[Pike 96]

You can't really compare the 2 programs in this way, it's apples and oranges. Louisville had a new coaching hire the 1st year of your comparison, of course there will be attrition from that. Players that are good but don't fit into the new system are going to leave. How many guys left UK the year Stoops was hired? Why not give us the 3 year evaluation instead of the only evaluation time-frame that appears to favor UK?

Unless my Math is off, a guy leaving as a RS Freshman this year is someone Stoops actually recruited, presumably with a plan other than padding star ratings. Things didn't work out. My question is, did they not work out because of the kid, or because of a failure in Stoops' development process? It's too early to say Stoops can't develop guys, but it could be a sign. Signing great talent is an achievement, but getting that talent developed and on the field is a whole other process. Translating a 4-star signing into a productive contributor on the field is a big part of Stoops job, and it didn't happen with this kid.

I did a two year comparison because both your classes were signed under Petrino. The first was an abbreviated timeframe for your staff but ultimately they decided to keep allc those guys so previous staff attrition isnt applicable in this case.
I agree that talent development is huge part of the equation. Every bit as important as recruiting talent. Ricardson was recruited by Stoops. It didn't work out for whatever reason. But losing less than 10% of your class is not a bad ratio. I also agree that Pertrino has shown he can develop talent. With Stoops the jury is still out to a certain extent. But given his success in that regard everywhere he has gone and the fact we like our overall staff, most UK fans are optimistic (if somewhat guardedly) the talent development will match the recruiting. We shall see soon enough

 

[Pike 96]

Are you not counting the JUCO's as part of those classes?

James Sample was in last year's class, and was drafted in the NFL draft this past spring. He has to count ... BUT ... he contributed to one of the best defenses in the country in the year he played. So to count him as negative attrition is silly. Poly, Ramsey Pridgen, Rhaheed, Terry and Thibodeux -- none of these guys were 4 star rated. Which is the end all, be all of the recruiting success that has been trumpeted out of Lexington since Stoops got there. The losses to the evaluated ranking of U of L's class, not hit tot he degree that UK's has been.

Anyone who has paid attention to what I have said about recruiting -- and especially football recruiting -- knows I give two flips about star ratings, and class rankings. I honestly think they don't mean much at all.

BUT .. this is what UK fans have hung their hat on. And THIS is why I ask the questions about effected ranking.

Wasn't counting Samples in attrition. Just comparing the high school guys that didn't make it out of the signing classes

 

[CardFan1130]

But given his success in that regard everywhere he has gone )

Say what? Oh and you liked your overall staff when Bill Curry was there too.

 

[Stonewall12]

Isn't it funny, Cue Card, how confident UK fans always are? Player suspended, guys leaving the program. No problem! "We will be fine." Nothing seems to be able to penetrate the dream world. At least, not until the games start.

We will be fine. We have more depth this year. There is no dream world. ULL runs the ball... A lot. Do I wish Hatcher was playing? Of course but I think we have enough players to step and shut it down.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

They liked N Brown too. We were warned about that guy. N Brown warned us too.

He gone.

 

[CardFan1130]

They liked Elliot Uzelac too

 

[zipp]

They liked Elliot Uzelac too

Jerry Claiborne, Bill Curry, Hal Mumme, Claude Basset, Pappaw and Joker... Gee, this could start an avalanche!

LPT Football: Graveyard Hall of Fame...