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Updated basketball attendance stats (incl. LPT)...

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The OP has piqued my interest here. I’m curious as to what is the point of this thread. Is it just to prove uk is selling more tickets than UofL, or is there an ulterior motive here? If it’s the former, what is gained here? Should we award them a medal?
If you reread the first line of the OP, you'll see why I had to start a thread on this particular subject. I was content to post in the other thread.
shame, it's just Zipp being Zipp. Sometimes he's Jekll and sometimes he's Hyde. I personally think he listens to the headphones too much and gets fired up by others.:eek: He really is a die hard Cards fan that just has a beef(s) that goes back prior to even the takeover(coup). Since the takeover, he's rabid about a long list of things. :( Kinda like DC these days.
It's more about perception. You can't take an objective, analytical position in this space without risking being branded as unhappy, anti-U of L, or a slapd!ck. And that's just misdirection by people who don't wanna acknowledge or discuss the subject.

It's also not my problem...
 
I don’t doubt he’s a UofL fan, he claims he is, that’s enough for me. I’ve been a UofL fan nearly 40 years now, so I’ve met plenty of Ville fans that are disgruntled, never get the opportunity to ask why, which explains my interest. I’m too often guilty of over analyzing people, I just want to try and get to the root of their issues sometimes.

shame, I'll be glad to help you with an intervention. Maybe we could help Zipper. :D
 
Oscar Combs tweeted the following information about two of UK's most recent games:

"Actual turnstile count for last 2 home games was under 13,000. Turnstile for Evansville was 12,157, although the attendance was listed at 19,101 in box score. Utah turnstile was 12,057 although it was listed as 18,859 in official box score. Rupp Arena capacity is now at 20,150."

"That was Utah Valley, not Utah in the last home game at Rupp. Two years ago at Rupp Arena, Utah Valley attracted a turnstile count of 15,554. The listed attendance in the official box score for that game was 19,807."

So that is 60% for Evansville and 59.8% for Utah Valley.
 
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If you reread the first line of the OP, you'll see why I had to start a thread on this particular subject. I was content to post in the other thread.

It's more about perception. You can't take an objective, analytical position in this space without risking being branded as unhappy, anti-U of L, or a slapd!ck. And that's just misdirection by people who don't wanna acknowledge or discuss the subject.

It's also not my problem...

It is your problem though. You create threads like this and are surprised when people accuse you of being “unhappy, anti-U of L, or a slapd!ck.” So you create threads to reassure yourself that people will call you these names even when you provide facts to call out their hypocrisy, to make yourself feel better in some weird way.

As I’ve stated in other posts in this thread, regardless if we can trust the numbers universities give us, we can point to pictures of say Rupp, that show the lack of attendance, and come to the obvious conclusion that even the blue bloods are having attendance problems.
 
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Well I say let’s shutdown the Yum, do away with sports at UofL. Clearly that’s what Vince wants right?

Ok Zipp your great at pointing out faults, so how do you fix it?

This has nothing to do with the new administration and everything to do with the scandal. People got mad and in the habit of not attending. Now we need to pull people back. It will take years
 
They were dropping out of the Yum long before the Strippergate/FBI. At least it was very evident to me while I was sitting in the upper bowl. It was truly about the cost of being in that upper bowl and the high cost of eating, drinking, parking. People just couldn't rationalize the $$$ in their budgets anymore. What I noticed was the younger folks 35 and under dropping out. Then I noticed the older folks disappearing. It was not easy or comfortable being up in that upper bowl 2-3 times a week at a more mature age.
 
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Oscar Combs tweeted the following information about two of UK's most recent games:

"Actual turnstile count for last 2 home games was under 13,000. Turnstile for Evansville was 12,157, although the attendance was listed at 19,101 in box score. Utah turnstile was 12,057 although it was listed as 18,859 in official box score. Rupp Arena capacity is now at 20,150."

"That was Utah Valley, not Utah in the last home game at Rupp. Two years ago at Rupp Arena, Utah Valley attracted a turnstile count of 15,554. The listed attendance in the official box score for that game was 19,807."

So that is 60% for Evansville and 59.8% for Utah Valley.
That's good data and hard to get unless you're a legendary slappy.

So what do you think U of L's actual numbers are? Again, we're at 67% this year for tickets sold. I'll bet our turnstile numbers are jaw-dropping.

I'll also remind anyone trying to feel better about U of L's situation by comparison... LPT athletics are breaking even; ours is losing $15 million annually. Some people can withstand financial problems better than others. It matters where you start out...
 
Well I say let’s shutdown the Yum, do away with sports at UofL. Clearly that’s what Vince wants right?

Ok Zipp your great at pointing out faults, so how do you fix it?

This has nothing to do with the new administration and everything to do with the scandal. People got mad and in the habit of not attending. Now we need to pull people back. It will take years
No it wouldn't take long if you had the right people in charge. You're making excuses for these new guys.

I was just asked this "what would you do?" question--AGAIN--on the premium side. And Mark E chafed at the issue because it was "tired and old" and off topic, EVEN THOUGH someone else was asking as if it had never been answered. I have answered your question, and at the risk of angering management, I'll C&P the answer yet one more time...

Presenting a gift this holiday season for the clown apologists. And it will be super fast to repost it anytime someone starts forgetting or attacking...

My approach to gain back the trust of thousands of fans and donors is two-pronged. One element is embracing the past, and the other is true openness and honesty. Unfortunately as time passes, some of these ideas have become obsolete or are heading in that direction.


“Embrace the Past”

1. Settle with Pitino. This is a missed opportunity that would have improved U of L’s image by taking the high road. Arguably, Pitino looks better in the aftermath than U of L does.

2. Bring back Mark Jurich in a university (non-athletic) fund raising capacity. This may already be a missed opportunity and probably will be in another year or so anyway. There’s no certainty at all that Mark would accept, but the benefits are obvious. Many big donors are still out there that he knows, and he serves as a bridge between past and present.

3. Drop the suit against Doc Ramsey. Another opportunity that is running short on time. And consider recognizing the guy for his contributions to the many good things that define the university today.

4. Re-install the championship banners. More obvious benefits.

5. Acknowledge and publicize the accomplishments of Tom Jurich. As with his son, Tom would have to cooperate. But with father and son, there are positive outcomes for U of L simply by making the effort.


[NOTE: Missed opportunities are with respect to U of L gaining from them. Like Pitino dropping his suit, if something occurs without U of L shepherding it, U of L will get little credit from disaffected fans and donors.]


“Openness and Honesty”

What this is NOT is the garbage promulgated by U of L about ethical behavior. And U of L needs to admit what it has tried to do to foster that image and why. No one who matters buys the bull$hit. (Well, maybe "Vince" and his Realtor-daughter...)

1. Issue unaudited quarterly financial reports. No news is NOT good news on our current financials, and we’re getting less and less news. We’re told that meetings now are only held quarterly, yet no info gets published from finance meetings like the good old days.

2. Admit recent mistakes. These are mistakes SINCE the takeover. And public apologies need to be made to the people affected. Most are former staff members.

3. Reach out personally to fans. Apologize to them and openly welcome them back. It's crazy how many people now report bad experiences with U of L buying tickets, improving their "fan experience", etc.

4. Define and execute on Vince’s personal challenge. If this guy wants to rescue his own image, he needs to come clean with these same fans. Acknowledge what his credentials were (not) to get a job he got anyway. Explain why and how that happened. An easy avenue would be to expose key players in his past like Bevin, Gruesome, Postel, and Pizza Guy for who/what they were. They’re all part of that past and can’t hurt him.


The caveat to this newfound honesty would be getting past U of L attorneys. Pending litigation and liability risk could be impediments. If so, those attorneys need to find the way home for U of L and key players like “Vince”. Also, the above points will morph over time as they already have. After a couple more years of decline and fading memories, all of this will be moot.

Do I think anything will happen soon and to a significant degree?...No way. People like “Vince” are too mesmerized by the notion of their own abilities to admit anything close to these inadequacies and misconduct. But that’s not my problem to overcome. This is the path to get a meaningful percentage of alienated U of L people back in the boat. And the truth will be a problem for the very people we need it from…
 
Can they even re-hang the banners?

I don't blame people for not going. Unless you're a hard core fan the experience is awful. Lines, expensive, parking. It was like that in that dump Freedom Hall as well. I remember sitting on outside of the fairgrounds for hours waiting to get out. Bleh.

Give me the HDTV any day of the week. I'm not alone in that.
 
I don’t know what the answer is. I admittedly do not attend basketball games because I cannot afford lower bowl seats and I cannot stand the upper seats in the Yum (completely reminds me of views from upper Rupp). I will watch from home any day over being in the upper at Yum.

I am not convinced that UofL is suffering worse than any other school though. It has been well documented for the past few years that public attendance to games across the country is declining. I am sure there are outliers but the overall trend is there. University season ticket packages are simply too expensive when you add in required donations on top of actual ticket prices. I don’t have any data to support it but the eye test seems to show prices have outpaced economic growth of the typical American.
 
Can they even re-hang the banners?

I don't blame people for not going. Unless you're a hard core fan the experience is awful. Lines, expensive, parking. It was like that in that dump Freedom Hall as well. I remember sitting on outside of the fairgrounds for hours waiting to get out. Bleh.

Give me the HDTV any day of the week. I'm not alone in that.

sword, something is not right about your account. I'm checking into it. I will figure it out. Just a heads up for you.
 
Can they even re-hang the banners?...
We can't claim an "NCAA championship." But my understanding is that's where the penalty ends...

banners.jpg


This actually points up a larger issue. Our basketball program should simply be claiming five championships anyway. What happens if the NCAA goes the way of the dinosaurs? Does everyone start over counting championships...
 
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No it wouldn't take long if you had the right people in charge. You're making excuses for these new guys.

I was just asked this "what would you do?" question--AGAIN--on the premium side. And Mark E chafed at the issue because it was "tired and old" and off topic, EVEN THOUGH someone else was asking as if it had never been answered. I have answered your question, and at the risk of angering management, I'll C&P the answer yet one more time...

Presenting a gift this holiday season for the clown apologists. And it will be super fast to repost it anytime someone starts forgetting or attacking...

My approach to gain back the trust of thousands of fans and donors is two-pronged. One element is embracing the past, and the other is true openness and honesty. Unfortunately as time passes, some of these ideas have become obsolete or are heading in that direction.


“Embrace the Past”

1. Settle with Pitino. This is a missed opportunity that would have improved U of L’s image by taking the high road. Arguably, Pitino looks better in the aftermath than U of L does.

2. Bring back Mark Jurich in a university (non-athletic) fund raising capacity. This may already be a missed opportunity and probably will be in another year or so anyway. There’s no certainty at all that Mark would accept, but the benefits are obvious. Many big donors are still out there that he knows, and he serves as a bridge between past and present.

3. Drop the suit against Doc Ramsey. Another opportunity that is running short on time. And consider recognizing the guy for his contributions to the many good things that define the university today.

4. Re-install the championship banners. More obvious benefits.

5. Acknowledge and publicize the accomplishments of Tom Jurich. As with his son, Tom would have to cooperate. But with father and son, there are positive outcomes for U of L simply by making the effort.


[NOTE: Missed opportunities are with respect to U of L gaining from them. Like Pitino dropping his suit, if something occurs without U of L shepherding it, U of L will get little credit from disaffected fans and donors.]


“Openness and Honesty”

What this is NOT is the garbage promulgated by U of L about ethical behavior. And U of L needs to admit what it has tried to do to foster that image and why. No one who matters buys the bull$hit. (Well, maybe "Vince" and his Realtor-daughter...)

1. Issue unaudited quarterly financial reports. No news is NOT good news on our current financials, and we’re getting less and less news. We’re told that meetings now are only held quarterly, yet no info gets published from finance meetings like the good old days.

2. Admit recent mistakes. These are mistakes SINCE the takeover. And public apologies need to be made to the people affected. Most are former staff members.

3. Reach out personally to fans. Apologize to them and openly welcome them back. It's crazy how many people now report bad experiences with U of L buying tickets, improving their "fan experience", etc.

4. Define and execute on Vince’s personal challenge. If this guy wants to rescue his own image, he needs to come clean with these same fans. Acknowledge what his credentials were (not) to get a job he got anyway. Explain why and how that happened. An easy avenue would be to expose key players in his past like Bevin, Gruesome, Postel, and Pizza Guy for who/what they were. They’re all part of that past and can’t hurt him.


The caveat to this newfound honesty would be getting past U of L attorneys. Pending litigation and liability risk could be impediments. If so, those attorneys need to find the way home for U of L and key players like “Vince”. Also, the above points will morph over time as they already have. After a couple more years of decline and fading memories, all of this will be moot.

Do I think anything will happen soon and to a significant degree?...No way. People like “Vince” are too mesmerized by the notion of their own abilities to admit anything close to these inadequacies and misconduct. But that’s not my problem to overcome. This is the path to get a meaningful percentage of alienated U of L people back in the boat. And the truth will be a problem for the very people we need it from…

Outside of #’s 4 and 5 under “Embrace the Past”, and #3 under “Openess and Honesty” this post is total nonsense, and I would have to agree with Mark E.
I would strongly advise you, as a worried and caring internet friend, to drop this weird vendetta against Vince. It’s not healthy, and he may be here awhile.
 
We can't claim an "NCAA championship." But my understanding is that's where the penalty ends...

banners.jpg


This actually points up a larger issue. Our basketball program should simply be claiming five championships anyway. What happens if the NCAA goes the way of the dinosaurs? Does everyone start over counting championships...

Didn't they start over with the NCAA? Wasn't the NIT the real tourny back in the day? Do they give out NIT champion banners now?

I will agree that they should've built an on campus arena. 10k ish sized. Get it more like Cameron Indoor than some stuffy NBA thing.
 
Didn't they start over with the NCAA? Wasn't the NIT the real tourny back in the day? Do they give out NIT champion banners now?

I will agree that they should've built an on campus arena. 10k ish sized. Get it more like Cameron Indoor than some stuffy NBA thing.
They're all "national championships," technically speaking. As you say, one tourney or the other was at various times the preeminent championship. So you really should IMO deemphasize WHOSE championship it was anyway. I wasn't there so I don't know for sure, but I've heard the earliest LPT championships in the NCAA don't mean as much for that reason.

So you raise a completely new set of banners along the lines of what I've just presented. What's delaying us?...
 
Outside of #’s 4 and 5 under “Embrace the Past”, and #3 under “Openess and Honesty” this post is total nonsense, and I would have to agree with Mark E.
I would strongly advise you, as a worried and caring internet friend, to drop this weird vendetta against Vince. It’s not healthy, and he may be here awhile.
I didn't say you had to like it. The question posed to me is what do alienated fans wanna see in order to return. We sure as hell have those fans, and business as usual obviously ain't cutting it.

And if folks don't wanna hear my answer, why do I get asked?...
 
I didn't say you had to like it. The question posed to me is what do alienated fans wanna see in order to return. We sure as hell have those fans, and business as usual obviously ain't cutting it.

And if folks don't wanna hear my answer, why do I get asked?...

“Settle with Pitino”? Yeah that would have been great stewardship of university funds. Just an example of how off-base you’ve been lately.
 
“LPT athletics are breaking even; ours is losing $15 million annually.”

Our net position got worse by $15M due to firing a football staff that was headed by a coach who inexplicably received a sweet-heart buyout deal from the prior AD.
 
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The NAIB Championship in 1948 is a legit championship. It’s not like a Helms Title banners like Kansas, UNC, and Purdue have hanging in their arenas.
 
“Settle with Pitino”? Yeah that would have been great stewardship of university funds. Just an example of how off-base you’ve been lately.
U of L had nothing to do with "stewardship" of funds. The Master folded his tent.
“LPT athletics are breaking even; ours is losing $15 million annually.”

Our net position got worse by $15M due to firing a football staff that was headed by a coach who inexplicably received a sweet-heart buyout deal from the prior AD.
The ULAA has lost $29,192,000 during the last two fiscal years. Those numbers are from the last two annual financial reports. Show me the accounting that covered the expenses of the football coaching staff.

In that same time frame, slapd!ck athletics has lost $0...
 
“U of L had nothing to do with "stewardship" of funds. The Master folded his tent”

UofL knew Pitino had a losing hand. To have provided any financial settlement with Pitino would have been insanity. I’ve never heard from anyone outside of you who had their fandom affected by UofL being in litigation with Pitino. Your suggested “action” plan is ridiculous as a whole but your point #1 is just nuts.
 
...UofL knew Pitino had a losing hand. To have provided any financial settlement with Pitino would have been insanity. I’ve never heard from anyone outside of you who had their fandom affected by UofL being in litigation with Pitino. Your suggested “action” plan is ridiculous as a whole but your point #1 is just nuts.
Looks like the fan card game again... :p

My support of U of L athletics has nothing to do with Pitino. My LACK of support for U of L's current leadership is exemplified by how Pitino's situation was handled.

I appreciate the opportunity to correct your continued mischaracterization of those relationships...
 
Looks like the fan card game again... :p

My support of U of L athletics has nothing to do with Pitino. My LACK of support for U of L's current leadership is exemplified by how Pitino's situation was handled.

I appreciate the opportunity to correct your continued mischaracterization of those relationships...

Uh, “is exemplified by how Pitino’s situation was handled”. It was handled by NOT giving him one red (pun intended) cent. And the reason was that Pitino ran for the hills (or wherever he goes) after realizing that he had NO CASE WHATSOEVER. In fact, he “quit” his case because he was informed that the additional information that “the clowns” had on him was compelling and convincing. And, guess what, apparently it was indeed enough to force his hand. And thank God that we are done with his phony @$$. And, even though I was a supporter of the Jurich’s, bringing them back is not a viable option. WHAT is an option is to work with the BOT as now assembled to do what’s best for THE UofL going forward. I truly believe that is exactly what Dr. Bendapudi is going to do. Unfortunately, the UofL/Dr. Ramsey lawsuits are ongoing and I wish they would settle that stuff sooner rather than later, but it doesn’t look as though that’s going to happen.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
Looks like the fan card game again... :p

My support of U of L athletics has nothing to do with Pitino. My LACK of support for U of L's current leadership is exemplified by how Pitino's situation was handled.

I appreciate the opportunity to correct your continued mischaracterization of those relationships...

I don’t see that as a fan card check. I’m simply commenting that your proposed “action” plan is ridiculous and in particular your viewpoint on Pitino is exclusive to you.
 
Well I say let’s shutdown the Yum, do away with sports at UofL. Clearly that’s what Vince wants right?

Ok Zipp your great at pointing out faults, so how do you fix it?

This has nothing to do with the new administration and everything to do with the scandal. People got mad and in the habit of not attending. Now we need to pull people back. It will take years
For those of you that like big screen viewing, sooner or later the schools will not allow television of home games in the home viewing area. You are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
 
Uh, “is exemplified by how Pitino’s situation was handled”. It was handled by NOT giving him one red (pun intended) cent. And the reason was that Pitino ran for the hills (or wherever he goes) after realizing that he had NO CASE WHATSOEVER. In fact, he “quit” his case because he was informed that the additional information that “the clowns” had on him was compelling and convincing...
That's a story, and not in any way evidence. Pitino is/was trying hard to get a good coaching gig. And he was advised his lawsuit was interfering with that. THAT is why he walked away.

If clowns--or the FBI for that matter--had anything on Pitino, why was it never unearthed in the two years that things played out? Why was Gruesome not embarrassing himself and U of L talking about it under oath? Pitino's dirty laundry was out there for everyone to see.

Clowns get no credit for how the Pitino mess was handled. Hell, they made most of the mess for themselves...

clowns-2-1.jpg
 
I don’t see that as a fan card check. I’m simply commenting that your proposed “action” plan is ridiculous and in particular your viewpoint on Pitino is exclusive to you.
You're not an alienated fan for whom the list was composed. And you don't have to like it for that reason.

I was asked what it would take to bring back fans and money, and those are the items. Whatever it takes to get them back is what the clowns should do...
 
That's a story, and not in any way evidence. Pitino is/was trying hard to get a good coaching gig. And he was advised his lawsuit was interfering with that. THAT is why he walked away.

If clowns--or the FBI for that matter--had anything on Pitino, why was it never unearthed in the two years that things played out? Why was Gruesome not embarrassing himself and U of L talking about it under oath? Pitino's dirty laundry was out there for everyone to see.

Clowns get no credit for how the Pitino mess was handled. Hell, they made most of the mess for themselves...

clowns-2-1.jpg

You are wrong. I have unimpeachable sources that shared the “real” story with me. He quit because he had to quit because they had inside information that was SHOWN TO HIM and he and his attorney’s came to the decision that he could not go forward with his totally baseless lawsuit. And that ain’t no story either. NO, I will not furnish you or anyone else that source OR THE STORY. But I think you and the other folks on this board know that I don’t do this stuff to get attention, period. The last time I shared this much with you and others my source contacted me and I assured them that this was as far as I was going to go. They were fine with that. CRP may or MAY NOT ever coach again but if this info got out he would not and I can assure you of that.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
You are wrong. I have unimpeachable sources that shared the “real” story with me. He quit because he had to quit because they had inside information that was SHOWN TO HIM and he and his attorney’s came to the decision that he could not go forward with his totally baseless lawsuit. And that ain’t no story either. NO, I will not furnish you or anyone else that source OR THE STORY. But I think you and the other folks on this board know that I don’t do this stuff to get attention, period. The last time I shared this much with you and others my source contacted me and I assured them that this was as far as I was going to go. They were fine with that. CRP may or MAY NOT ever coach again but if this info got out he would not and I can assure you of that.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
Sorry gocards. I love you like a brother, but that’s either horse $hit on your part or you were fed a load of it. (And my real brother used to like “Vince” and still might.)

It’s also not revealing your source(s) to reveal the underlying info. Like everyone else, I’ll decide for myself whether it could be credible or not. When you do that reveal, gimme a plausible reason why it took two years to bubble to the surface. For me, that’s just as interesting and a dot that needs to connect...
 
Sorry gocards. I love you like a brother, but that’s either horse $hit on your part or you were fed a load of it. (And my real brother used to like “Vince” and still might.)

It’s also not revealing your source(s) to reveal the underlying info. Like everyone else, I’ll decide for myself whether it could be credible or not. When you do that reveal, gimme a plausible reason why it took two years to bubble to the surface. For me, that’s just as interesting and a dot that needs to connect...

Can’t and won’t reveal. And it’s not bullshit or horseshit. I’ll have nothing else to say. Oh, and thanks for the brotherly love.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
 
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