UK team building model on verge of imploding?

[ULarder]

UL is already half-way done with basketball recruiting for 2017 – grabbing two great recruits for the C/PF and PG spots. UK has no one committed.

And now it looks like all of UKs targets are also Duke targets. Duke and Coach K now completely own Cal and UK in recruiting the one-and-dones. So, basically, UK will have to wait to see who Duke won’t take. Even more than that, whoever Duke allows UK to have will be gone in a year anyway whether they are ready or not. So, unlike Duke, where top recruits actually want to come back to campus after one year, UK has to basically start over from scratch every year.

So, you can choose the UL model of building a solid program by stacking the roster with great talent that’s given time to develop + the returning maturity of experienced players. Or the UK model of flinging from year to year, forced to rely on the unproven “potential” of children and left perpetually hoping boys can become men in the span of one season (and then it’s off to the NBA where UK’s players finally either learn how to play or get cut). I’ll take the UL way.

 

[st-louie-blue]

UL is already half-way done with basketball recruiting for 2017 – grabbing two great recruits for the C/PF and PG spots. UK has no one committed.

And now it looks like all of UKs targets are also Duke targets. Duke and Coach K now completely own Cal and UK in recruiting the one-and-dones. So, basically, UK will have to wait to see who Duke won’t take. Even more than that, whoever Duke allows UK to have will be gone in a year anyway whether they are ready or not. So, unlike Duke, where top recruits actually want to come back to campus after one year, UK has to basically start over from scratch every year.

So, you can choose the UL model of building a solid program by stacking the roster with great talent that’s given time to develop + the returning maturity of experienced players. Or the UK model of flinging from year to year, forced to rely on the unproven “potential” of children and left perpetually hoping boys can become men in the span of one season (and then it’s off to the NBA where UK’s players finally either learn how to play or get cut). I’ll take the UL way.

 

[cuzimacardfan]

I'll believe Cal won't get guys when he doesn't. Duke can only sign so many. Plenty of time til signing day.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Come on dude really don't write stuff like big blue .

 

[Louis_Skunt]

UK is in big trouble, not sure they'll recover from this late signing group.

 

[ShortCreek]

Hate the kitties, but their recruiting philosophy seems to work for them. And, ours seems to be working for us. If you think suddenly the car salesman up the road won't get his recruits, then your delusional. Let's just hope he doesn't hire an X & O guy. Pray Kenny Payne continues to be their second banana and draw his $700,000 a year. If that's the case at least they'll continue to under achieve with their boat load of 5-stars!

 

[Cue Card]

Hate the kitties, but their recruiting philosophy seems to work for them. And, ours seems to be working for us. If you think suddenly the car salesman up the road won't get his recruits, then your delusional. Let's just hope he doesn't hire an X & O guy. Pray Kenny Payne continues to be their second banana and draw his $700,000 a year. If that's the case at least they'll continue to under achieve with their boat load of 5-stars!

Under achieve might be a bit strong considering they've had a decent amount of success, but the one thing they have lacked is consistency and that's because they are always relying on young players to step in right away. Their next group of diaper dandies could go 40-0 or they could go 20-12. Nobody knows because they haven't played together yet and nobody really knows if this is a strong #1 overall recruiting class or a weak #1 overall recruiting class.

The talent level varies from class to class each year. This year it could be a real strong class, or not. We'll find out this fall.

 

[ThroughBlue]

This thread. . .

 

[NISMOZCARD]

This thread. . .

You being on a Louisville forum...

 

[zipp]

Hard to judge how good or bad their recruiting is measured by the sh!t schedule they're always playing.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

I'm not a guy to normally link published content on a competitive site--esp. a slapd!ck site--but this piece syncs up with the OP...

Crystal Ball trending in wrong direction for LPT's top targets

Elite program", my a$$...

 

[ShortCreek]

Underachieve is what the car salesman has done @ Hayseed University. Consider the amount of 5-stars and burger All-Americans that played there during his tenure. Give that
talent to someone that can X & O and you're talking multiple rings! He can recruit, but coach? Mediocre!

 

[earsky]

I think the op isn't really thinking that Cal won't get his prizes....or maybe he is.It's more about philosophies and the difference between the two.I like ours

 

[earsky]

I'm not a guy to normally link published content on a competitive site--esp. a slapd!ck site--but this piece syncs up with the OP...

Crystal Ball trending in wrong direction for LPT's top targets

Elite program", my a$$...

I think that a big part of Cal's continued success recruiting depends on the Cats bringing home the championship once every 3-4 years.The fashion statement won't work if your demand goes down.Big year for uk,to say the least imo.

 

[cuzimacardfan]

I think the op isn't really thinking that Cal won't get his prizes....or maybe he is.It's more about philosophies and the difference between the two.I like ours

So do I. I am not anti-one and done. I just don't want to live and die by it. I like seeing kids develop.

 

[JohnKBA]

I'm not a guy to normally link published content on a competitive site--esp. a slapd!ck site--but this piece syncs up with the OP...

Crystal Ball trending in wrong direction for LPT's top targets

Elite program", my a$$...

In all fairness, the Crystal Ball hasn't always been that great. Among the UK targets who the Crystal Ball predicted would go elsewhere include Abedayo, Murray, the Harrisons, Goodwin, Noel, Gabriel, Briscoe, Randle....I'm sure there are more. The so called crystal ball historically has been more like an opaque ball.

As a UK fan I don't love the system. As Cue pointed out, you never really know what you have until freshmen start playing vs men in college. There is a huge difference between most 18/19 and 21/22 year olds. Some guys who dominate other boys in high school can't compete with men in college. There is a reason the NBA is so stuck on OAD rule. They get the chance to see how boys perform vs men while they spend a year in college. Sure, there are exceptions (Davis, Okafor, Simmons, Towns, Parker come to mind,) but most are a coin toss.

Just looking at RSCI ratings over the last several years. roughly 50% of the top 10 have made almost no impact in the NBA (and some never make it to the NBA at all.) For the most part, seasoned, talented upperclassmen who have played together a lot are going to beat a bunch of teenagers even if there is a talent gap. The infamous Siva > Wall stuff from the past (and yes I know it was our fanbase who perpetuated that) comes to mind. Was Siva as talented as Wall, or Knight, or Teague? Maybe, maybe not. But as a senior after 4 years in a system, with other veterans and a mix of younger talent, he shone brighter than any of the UK point guards did in the tourney.

At the end of the day it would be hard to argue that both fanbases shouldn't be happy with the last several years. Both have multiple final fours plus a NT, and outside of UK in 2013 and U of L last year (because of extenuating circumstances,) both have been legit FF contenders every year. Hell, had we not been matched up in 2014 we might have faced off in the FF again.

 

[Kratz]

I'm not going to bad mouth Cal on this one. He has a system, and they're damn good every year (except for one). We've both been to F4s, both won a championship. Different approaches but similar results in the end. If it works for Cal and UK, go for it.

I prefer our system because you get to know the guys. You get to watch them and see them progress over the years. You develop that attachment. You see guys like Russ Smith, Siva, Djeng, Harrel, etc grow into great players.

At UK, you get to see a group of guys from November to March, then you have to learn a whole new team next season.

One last piece of credit to Cal though: He does an AMAZING job of getting all of these superstars to come in for a year and set their egos aside to play as a team. Anthony Davis was the #1 overall pick and has lived up to it. However, he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team at UK.

The way these burger boys have been coddled, spoiled and told how great they are just inflates their heads and egos. Cal gets them to set it aside and be part of a team. No matter how much you dislike him, you have to give him credit on that one. Not many coaches could do that with that much talent at one time.

 

[zipp]

I'll simply say that it's probably a lot easier coaching big egos for four months than it is for four years. And keep them out of trouble, and keep them in school, etc.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

I'll simply say that it's probably a lot easier coaching big egos for four months than it is for four years. And keep them out of trouble, and keep them in school, etc.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I can agree with this to some extent. I know a lot of U of L fans perpetuate the myth that any OAD is automatically a bad guy, a mercenary, a diva, bad teammate, etc etc. But the fact is, most players recruited by major programs were the man on their high school team, even if they aren't a OAD. So to zipp's point, they all have an ego to deal with. And in many ways, it's probably even tougher for those guys to start from scratch at a school like U of L where there are always upperclassmen to compete with for clock. At UK where the mantra is reload, most of the guys who come in don't have Junior and Senior starters returning at their positions. So I'd argue that the adjustment is actually easier.

 

[Cue Card]

I can agree with this to some extent. I know a lot of U of L fans perpetuate the myth that any OAD is automatically a bad guy, a mercenary, a diva, bad teammate, etc etc. But the fact is, most players recruited by major programs were the man on their high school team, even if they aren't a OAD. So to zipp's point, they all have an ego to deal with. And in many ways, it's probably even tougher for those guys to start from scratch at a school like U of L where there are always upperclassmen to compete with for clock. At UK where the mantra is reload, most of the guys who come in don't have Junior and Senior starters returning at their positions. So I'd argue that the adjustment is actually easier.

There is also the perception (wrong or right) that a kid who KNOWS he's going to college for 4 months doesn't give two flips about expanding his academic knowledge. Some would even suggest the academic road has been paved as smoothly as possible so the OAD athlete isn't pestered by the nagging academic detail which is necessary to remain eligible for 4 months. So yeah, I agree the transition to college life for a OAD athlete is much easier than a 2, 3, or 4 year college kid who actually has to pay attention to academics longer than 4 months.

 

[JohnKBA]

There is also the perception (wrong or right) that a kid who KNOWS he's going to college for 4 months doesn't give two flips about expanding his academic knowledge. Some would even suggest the academic road has been paved as smoothly as possible so the OAD athlete isn't pestered by the nagging academic detail which is necessary to remain eligible for 4 months. So yeah, I agree the transition to college life for a OAD athlete is much easier than a 2, 3, or 4 year college kid who actually has to pay attention to academics longer than 4 months.

Man, i think you describe a LOT of regular, non athlete freshmen too there Cue. I don't remember most of my freshman year because I was blackout drunk for at least half of it. I didn't even really have to bear down until my Junior year. Passing freshman college classes is a walk in the park if you can read and do math.

And yes, I realize I set up an obvious Eric Bledsoe joke here.....

 

[Cue Card]

Man, i think you describe a LOT of regular, non athlete freshmen too there Cue. I don't remember most of my freshman year because I was blackout drunk for at least half of it. I didn't even really have to bear down until my Junior year. Passing freshman college classes is a walk in the park if you can read and do math.

And yes, I realize I set up an obvious Eric Bledsoe joke here.....

Yep, lucky for me my daughter hasn't taken the same path in college that I took, or at least I don't think she has. She's actually holding a 4.0 GPA while taking courses that still make me cringe when I think about them. If she's doing that AND the stuff I was doing outside the classroom then she's a whole lot smarter than I ever could be. LOL.

 

[zipp]

Not to mention, U of L basketball is probably close to the other end of the spectrum...

We're not Ivy League of course, but Pitino's teams continue to set the bar pretty high academically--best GPA in the ACC nowadays. And to survive in Pitino's system, these guys have to be willing to work and condition like they never have before. None are gone after one year, and very few are gone after two. It's a long commitment, relatively speaking, and it's not easy.

If there's a program where a little higher attrition could be rationalized, it's U of L basketball.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Kratz]

I'll simply say that it's probably a lot easier coaching big egos for four months than it is for four years. And keep them out of trouble, and keep them in school, etc.

"Elite program", my a$$...

I'll agree on that, but will insert a caveat to bolster my credit to Cal. What's the one thing you always hear RP say about the freshmen? "They've got to play defense". It takes them awhile to learn the defensive end of things regardless of their offensive prowess. Cals teams play some pretty damn good D as well. I'm sure the system is simpler due to the short nature of their stay at UK, but you never hear anyone say that UK is a weak team defensively even though they're loaded with freshmen.

 

[zipp]

I'll agree on that, but will insert a caveat to bolster my credit to Cal. What's the one thing you always hear RP say about the freshmen? "They've got to play defense". It takes them awhile to learn the defensive end of things regardless of their offensive prowess. Cals teams play some pretty damn good D as well. I'm sure the system is simpler due to the short nature of their stay at UK, but you never hear anyone say that UK is a weak team defensively even though they're loaded with freshmen.

Yeah, I'm not saying the guy isn't a good motivator. But the greatest motivation is probably a quick stopover to the NBA if the kid gets it done. And don't believe Pitino Lite doesn't say or convey that there will a 5-star freshman next year trying to take the kid's job if he doesn't make the jump.

"Elite program", my a$$...