The NEW landscape of the ACC

[LeFors4Ever]

So Coach K is on the way out. Roy Williams is gone. They're being replaced by 2 no-name scrubs in terms of coaching. Now, they'll have talent because of the brand but these hires seem like they'll be disasters. The only reason I think they happened is so they could recruit and not have mass roster transfers.

So where does the ACC stand as of today? Where does that leave us?

Right now, Tony Bennett is the only elite coach in the conference. Jim Boeheim is a legend, but he's 76 and has lost a step. Leonard Hamilton is great, but he's 72 and won't be around long. The conference is in a period of transition and right now is the time we need to take the BIG STEP FORWARD.

So after those 3, where do you see the future of the conference? We've really seen the ACC drop the last 2 years, it's not been great and we haven't capitalized.

1. Mike Brey has always been 1 step away from being in that next tier. He's been around 21 years. He's on the "Hot Seat" but they'd be dumb to get rid of him. He's slipped the last few years, but I've always respected his teams. With the ACC up for grabs, maybe he's the one that can take that step. He's 62 and respected. He's had some amazing teams and can develop talent.

2. Mack/The Ville- Mack has a Big East title and a #1 Seed on his resume recently. He's shown he can recruit. With those 2 giants off the map, maybe that gives us the time to rise. What's sad though, this would've been the time Rick Pitino would've been the king of these next 5-10 years.

3. Mike Young looks really strong. Not very proven, but I think he may have them rocking consistently.

4. Josh Pastner surprisingly has made Ga Tech better every year, even with sanctions. He wasn't awful at Memphis either. He's in the range of good coach, but nothing more. But he's only 43 and has shown he can recruit.

5. Jeff Capel can recruit, but he's had a rocky relationship with his players at Pitt thus far.

Steve Forbes at Wake is one to watch. Awful 1st year, but they had nothing.
Larranaga had a FF run, but his program is falling apart at Miami
Keats seems to have run out of steam at NC State
Brownell at Clemson just will never do anything
Earl Grant at BC???


The conference is there for the taking, I think now there's more pressure on Mack. There's no more excuse about how tough it is to win in the ACC. We've been recruiting good talent and have plenty of money. Sanctions haven't really hurt us overall. Now that he's finally got a roster of his guys who have been around a few years, it's time for him to show what he can do. Because great coaches show what they can do easily. If we're still in that upper middle tier every year, that's not where we can be.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The ACC was already trending down, and now it's gaining steam in that direction. UofL has a lot of off-court problems with the NCAA yet to be done with, the forever cloud is here to stay until further notice. If UofL hadn't run into all the trouble, it is possible it would be UVA/UofL and a great rivalry there, two top 5/10 teams annually. Instead, it's really UVA and everybody else right now.

Duke/UNC hires were probably made based on what you say, and I'll throw in a touch of elitist "keep it in the family" vibe to it. The reality is following either one of those guys wasn't going to be desirable to an upper tier HC, guys like Jay Wright, Mark Few... just couldn't see them leaving their spots for those situations...so oddly the options for Duke/UNC were maybe somewhat limited. They could have probably easily nabbed a more unproven up and coming coach, or just handed it to a former player that's beloved (until the Ls pile up!) ...

The overall mediocrity of this league probably does add pressure on Mack. It's gonna be hard for fans to accept middling results against middling competition. If the Cards trade wins losses with a bunch of fringe at best teams people ain't gonna be happy.

For Mack it's a shame he didn't get a chance to make something happen with the tournament cancelling a couple years ago, they could have flamed out but they also could have gotten hot with Nwora and co. We'll never know. It feels like it's TBD for Mack here. Just a bad circumstance to walk into for him and the problems just don't seem to want to go away.

As for some of your other list, agree on Pastner gotta say he's done ok. I like the Clemson coach. It just feels like some of these jobs have a ceiling, though the right guy probably wouldn't have a ceiling anywhere I reckon.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

Only push back i have is every one thinking UNC hire is bad. I personally think Davis will do a good job . NC/Duke will still have the best talent than all teams in the ACC . Duke coach is just a buffer for now. They knew it be hard to get someone to want to replace Coach K. Whom will still be around pulling strings any other coach ex Wright ,Few would not allow this . So you go with the young assist in the family he won't buck admin or any body else. He will be the HC no more than couple years at most.

 

[2330859]

Lefors: Excellent Thread and insightful points you and others have posted.

Just thinking of UL; despite the NCAA unresolved issues; Mack has an opportunity to move this program to the top of the conference. Others could as well, but Mack’s decision to move closer to the International game is most encouraging, as both the fans and the recruits will love being a part of it.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Lefors: Excellent Thread and insightful points you and others have posted.

Just thinking of UL; despite the NCAA unresolved issues; Mack has an opportunity to move this program to the top of the conference. Others could as well, but Mack’s decision to move closer to the International game is most encouraging, as both the fans and the recruits will love being a part of it.

Thanks. And I think of the non-UVA programs that we are in the best spot. State of the art arena. We've been recruiting very well. Great fanbase. A lot of money. Plus, with NIL coming up we are the only team in a metro city without professional sports. But can we get it done?

Duke's situation is probably just that when you have a coach saying he's leaving ahead of time, it may not work out well. For starters, you can't recruit without a coach in place. Then, if the new players don't like the coach then everyone can transfer now. So you risk losing your whole roster. It's possible Scheyer isn't the guy next year, but in place to keep recruiting while they find a guy.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Sanctions haven't really hurt us overall.

Ok this is a doozy bud.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Ok this is a doozy bud.

After Rick leaving is my point. We've been recruiting just fine. Our classes have been four stars and top 100 guys. We've hit the transfer portal pretty well. Even got lucky with some guys returning. We've had plenty of talent.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

After Rick leaving is my point. We've been recruiting just fine. Our classes have been four stars and top 100 guys. We've hit the transfer portal pretty well. Even got lucky with some guys returning. We've had plenty of talent.

The program has won a grand total of 0 NCAA T games since Rick left LOL!

Rick's exit appears to have potentially decimated the program. An assistant coach just plead guilty to trying to blackmail his boss. Still waiting for additional rulings with the NCAA ready to pounce.

This is an elite program that can't make the NCAAs these days due to a combination of poor performance, actual eligibility to play in it, and/or NCAA selection snubs. These are results of the sanctions.

Team Nwora and Enoch could have changed the recent history/downward trend but got unlucky with the cancellation. So even when they may have had a team they still have no luck LOL! Because, of course!

If you peruse prediction polls you'll see teams like St. Bonaventure, Colorado St, and Belmont getting more buzz than Louisville. Don't get me wrong, A) Preseason Polls don't always nail it and B) I'm not some entitled fan that can't handle a humbling C) I am fully aware unheralded teams can play so not throwing shade on Belmont types.... but this is a historically top program here that is in a very bad place.

It's fine to look forward to the season, root for the team, all the players etc. No doubt. There was a ton of excitement for guys like Irish Hulk and Josh Nickelberry. A lot of people probably hoped David Johnson could lead us to an epic "We're back" post season run. I'm not here to run those guys down I wish them nothing but success in life and I appreciate their efforts. 100%. They gave us more than the list of de-commits. So many injuries it's very unfortunate.

Maybe the new "blood" into the program will bring a new outcome, some better luck, a forward direction, some sort of brand, as the young guys like to talk up these days.

You're looking to take your place near the top of the ACC - I'm just looking to get through one year without a ton of injuries, without a scandal, and maybe sneak into the NCAAs and see our name in a bracket on Selection Sunday.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

The program has won a grand total of 0 NCAA T games since Rick left LOL!

Rick's exit appears to have potentially decimated the program. An assistant coach just plead guilty to trying to blackmail his boss. Still waiting for additional rulings with the NCAA ready to pounce.

This is an elite program that can't make the NCAAs these days due to a combination of poor performance, actual eligibility to play in it, and/or NCAA selection snubs. These are results of the sanctions.

Team Nwora and Enoch could have changed the recent history/downward trend but got unlucky with the cancellation. So even when they may have had a team they still have no luck LOL! Because, of course!

If you peruse prediction polls you'll see teams like St. Bonaventure, Colorado St, and Belmont getting more buzz than Louisville. Don't get me wrong, A) Preseason Polls don't always nail it and B) I'm not some entitled fan that can't handle a humbling C) I am fully aware unheralded teams can play so not throwing shade on Belmont types.... but this is a historically top program here that is in a very bad place.

It's fine to look forward to the season, root for the team, all the players etc. No doubt. There was a ton of excitement for guys like Irish Hulk and Josh Nickelberry. A lot of people probably hoped David Johnson could lead us to an epic "We're back" post season run. I'm not here to run those guys down I wish them nothing but success in life and I appreciate their efforts. 100%. They gave us more than the list of de-commits. So many injuries it's very unfortunate.

Maybe the new "blood" into the program will bring a new outcome, some better luck, a forward direction, some sort of brand, as the young guys like to talk up these days.

You're looking to take your place near the top of the ACC - I'm just looking to get through one year without a ton of injuries, without a scandal, and maybe sneak into the NCAAs and see our name in a bracket on Selection Sunday.

Again, we've had plenty of talent. Our recruiting has not dipped. Our talent level has not dipped.

I'm saying as of right now, the sanctions have not made us take a step back talent-wise. Of course, sanctions and the cloud making Rick/Tom go away made us worse, but I'm talking about the position we are in as a program.

So let's look at how "far back" we've been
2018: Coach is gone and played with an interim
2019: New coach didn't get to recruit or bring in talent
2020: Brought in a solid top 10 class, got to #1 and would've been a 4 seed in March. Pandemic ended the year
2021: Brought in the best Grad transfer and a few more solid 4-star recruits. A year in which we had like 2 months of COVID pauses, no home crowds, not a real season. Even with the worst of circumstances, we were a borderline team on the bubble. So at our bottom of bottoms, we were a bubble team.

But overall, the 2018-2019 period with an interim and no real class was bad, but we didn't get decimated. We've still been a borderline top 25 team with some gaps created.

We had Nwora, Enoch, Malik, Perry, Sutton, McMahon, & even VJ all stayed and didn't transfer out. So we didn't have a mass roster exodus. Williamson was a solid 5 star recruit on his way into the program. EJ Ellis is the top JuCo PG. Carlik Jones was the top Grad-transfer. We've had 11 4 or 5 star freshman enter the program. Not to mention Cross/Locke were 4 stars out of HS and solid transfers. We've had plenty of talent in the program and that kept us from falling back. But our roster now are Mack guys top to bottom and he has no more excuses.

The scandal set us "back" a bit, but the whole story needs to be looked at when considering Mack didn't get a year 1 recruiting class, didn't get to have a tournament in 2020 because of a pandemic that bled into 2021. It is time for Mack to put up or shut up in 2022.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The scandal set us "back" a bit, but the whole story needs to be looked at when considering Mack didn't get a year 1 recruiting class, didn't get to have a tournament in 2020 because of a pandemic that bled into 2021. It is time for Mack to put up or shut up in 2022.

My point isn't an indictment on Mack, it's on the state of the program in general, and it's overall slide to mediocrity - which would be more than a "bit" of a set-back. To be clear I don't feel entitled to see the program at a high level my entire life. I'm not putting you in a full denial mode, I just think you're a little out of touch with the impact of these scandals and where the program is right now. It's ok to see the situation differently.


I understand "how" we got here, and what Mack inherited. It's somewhat miraculous the teams have gotten close to the bubble and even reached the tourney once given this ongoing cloud that won't go away.

What you're sunshine pumping are footnotes (ballyhooed recruiting classes producing mixed results, for. ex), to the story, whereas the scandals and fact that the last post season win was vs 15 seed Jacksonville St in 2017 are the bottom lines. The last big NCAA win was as a 4 seed vs 8 seed NC St in 2015. to reach the E8. This is a very long time ago.

Programs that go through off court disaster aren't supposed to be competitive shortly thereafter. I believe the NCAA cares about that, and I believe you will see that when they eventually get around to hammering this program when this is all said and done. If the NCAA were to pull a shocker and show lenience, then I could get into seeing UofL return to some glory. It just seems highly unlikely the NCAA let's the Cards off easy here.

Given that, it just doesn't feel like this program is in any position to be winning ACC titles. Oh I would love to revisit this and own my post.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

My point isn't an indictment on Mack, it's on the state of the program in general, and it's overall slide to mediocrity - which would be more than a "bit" of a set-back. To be clear I don't feel entitled to see the program at a high level my entire life. I'm not putting you in a full denial mode, I just think you're a little out of touch with the impact of these scandals and where the program is right now. It's ok to see the situation differently.


I understand "how" we got here, and what Mack inherited. It's somewhat miraculous the teams have gotten close to the bubble and even reached the tourney once given this ongoing cloud that won't go away.

What you're sunshine pumping are footnotes (ballyhooed recruiting classes producing mixed results, for. ex), to the story, whereas the scandals and fact that the last post season win was vs 15 seed Jacksonville St in 2017 are the bottom lines. The last big NCAA win was as a 4 seed vs 8 seed NC St in 2015. to reach the E8. This is a very long time ago.

Programs that go through off court disaster aren't supposed to be competitive shortly thereafter. I believe the NCAA cares about that, and I believe you will see that when they eventually get around to hammering this program when this is all said and done. If the NCAA were to pull a shocker and show lenience, then I could get into seeing UofL return to some glory. It just seems highly unlikely the NCAA let's the Cards off easy here.

Given that, it just doesn't feel like this program is in any position to be winning ACC titles. Oh I would love to revisit this and own my post.

I'm not debating the upcoming sanctions could be pretty bad. But overall, in spite of all the issues we have had some talented teams the last few years. I really believe without COVID pauses that we would've been a fun team to watch with the Carlik/DJ backcourt. We had a pretty good team in 2019-20 that reached #1, I mean who saw us having a team like that the day Rick was fired in 2017?

For starters, I didn't want Mack. I support Mack and think he's a good enough hire to keep us above water through these sanctions while keeping us competitive. I wanted Bruce Pearl, but the FBI cloud did keep us from that.

I would compare us to IU who was faced with a similar situation.
Sampson had an elite team that had it's season ruined in 2008. Crean came in and they hit rock bottom. Built up for 1 good year and maxed out at 2 Sweet 16 games. They bounced around with NIT's and letting all their top talent leaving the state. They became irrelevant.

Mack's 2nd season in 2019-20, we were top 10 the entire regular season and in the Final Poll we were #14-15. That's not irrelevant, we just have that UVA demon. This COVID year isn't a full excuse as everyone dealt with COVID, but those 2 months of pauses made it impossible to develop chemistry and conditioning.

Rick's ACC finishes
2015: #4 (12-6)
2016: #4 (12-6)
2017: #4 (12-6) (3-way tie for 2nd)

2018: #9 (9-9)

Mack
2019: #7 (10-8)
2020: #3 (15-5) (3-way tie for 2nd)
2021: #7 (8-5)

I don't think we're that different than Rick's run? 2020 was our best year in the ACC and 2021 we probably finish a bit higher without COVID pauses. We're still getting top transfers and top 100 recruits. So it's not like we've fallen off a cliff. Now if we get the death penalty, I'll agree, but if it's just one more March ban and maybe 1 scholarship, then it'll be over. No more cloud. We've had the cloud for 5.5 years and our program hasn't cratered. Honestly, I hope 2022 we get the March ban and get it over with and move on.

Idk if Mack is the guy long-term, but considering the scandal we've faced it could've been worse and he's kept us competitive in the ACC.

 

[shadow force]

I'm not debating the upcoming sanctions could be pretty bad. But overall, in spite of all the issues we have had some talented teams the last few years. I really believe without COVID pauses that we would've been a fun team to watch with the Carlik/DJ backcourt. We had a pretty good team in 2019-20 that reached #1, I mean who saw us having a team like that the day Rick was fired in 2017?

For starters, I didn't want Mack. I support Mack and think he's a good enough hire to keep us above water through these sanctions while keeping us competitive. I wanted Bruce Pearl, but the FBI cloud did keep us from that.

I would compare us to IU who was faced with a similar situation.
Sampson had an elite team that had it's season ruined in 2008. Crean came in and they hit rock bottom. Built up for 1 good year and maxed out at 2 Elite 8's. They bounced around with NIT's and letting all their top talent leaving the state. They became irrelevant.

Just wanted to make a slight correction. Crean topped out at two Sweet 16s at IU not Elite 8s.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Rick's ACC finishes
2015: #4 (12-6)
2016: #4 (12-6)
2017: #4 (12-6) (3-way tie for 2nd)

2018: #9 (9-9)

Mack
2019: #7 (10-8)
2020: #3 (15-5) (3-way tie for 2nd)
2021: #7 (8-5)

You're making an entire year 2018 a footnote, and you're kinda giving a pass for last year due to COVID. You are sort of downplaying 50% of the data since Rick left/post scandal whatever you wanna call it. Those seasons are a significant portion of the dataset. The "circumstances" were either universal for all programs (COVID yeah some had it worse than others) or self inflicted (SCANDALS).

Those ACC records aren't all that comparable also, the ACC was significantly better back in 2015-2017 than it has been recently. It was a pile of garbage last year, and the Cards couldn't do enough to get off the bubble. 2015 Louisville was in OT in the E8???

I don't want to slam the program it's not what I'm doing, I'm just giving a counter opinion to the mindset of "The ACC is for the taking."

There's a saying you are who you are, and right now UofL is a middling program in the ACC - today. It is highly possible the upcoming sanctions are a tad more substantial than 1 year 1 scholarship loss.

Answer this question, what has been your favorite post season NCAA moment for UofL since scandals? Spoiler alert. There ain't one. I know, Nwora coulda... I agree.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

You're making an entire year 2018 a footnote, and you're kinda giving a pass for last year due to COVID. You are sort of downplaying 50% of the data since Rick left/post scandal whatever you wanna call it. Those seasons are a significant portion of the dataset. The "circumstances" were either universal for all programs (COVID yeah some had it worse than others) or self inflicted (SCANDALS).

Those ACC records aren't all that comparable also, the ACC was significantly better back in 2015-2017 than it has been recently. It was a pile of garbage last year, and the Cards couldn't do enough to get off the bubble. 2015 Louisville was in OT in the E8???

I don't want to slam the program it's not what I'm doing, I'm just giving a counter opinion to the mindset of "The ACC is for the taking."

There's a saying you are who you are, and right now UofL is a middling program in the ACC - today. It is highly possible the upcoming sanctions are a tad more substantial than 1 year 1 scholarship loss.

Answer this question, what has been your favorite post season NCAA moment for UofL since scandals? Spoiler alert. There ain't one. I know, Nwora coulda... I agree.

And you're acting like the Global Pandemic that cost our 2020 team that spent the entire season in the top 10 is just a footnote. I'm not saying "The Scandal cost us nothing and we are fine" but what I'm saying is that we are in a good position moving forward in this new ACC. Outside of UVA, we are in as good a shape as anyone. Duke and UNC have bad coaches coming in & Hamilton/Boeheim are in their 70's. We have more talent than most anyone other than UK, Duke, KU, etc. You're looking at it like "Look at our results in the single elimination tournament the last 4 years! We're irrelevant" rather than looking at overall health.

Well 2017, we had a legit superstar in Donovan Mitchell and an overall good team with Rick coaching and we lost in the 2nd round. The scandal cost us 2016 in March, but 2017 we still had a fully talented roster with Rick and just choked.

Yes, the scandal cost the 2018 team and fell into 2019. But a GLOBAL PANDEMIC cost our 2020 team, a strong team, an opportunity to even play a game in the tournament. That same pandemic ruined the 2021 season too, or is that a footnote? Was it the scandal or the global pandemic that caused issues the last 2 seasons?

The scandal cost us Rick Pitino and the 2018 season. But does a single elimination tournament measure overall success of a program? I mean looking at Rick's first 10 years, we made it past the first weekend 3 times in 10 years. 2 NIT's. 70% of the time we didn't get past the first weekend.

We are far from irrelevant. If recruits are still coming to play here and we still are competing, we aren't off a cliff and it isn't all doom and gloom. Rick had that 2012-2015 run with those guys that was amazing, but it isn't like we were the most dominant program of all-time. There's only 1 Rick Pitino and we were going to have to replace him one day anyways. The health of the program is just fine. Is Mack elite? That's a legit debate, but we are still attracting good talent and are still a contender in the ACC. Now if we are a bubble team again this season? It's time to panic.

Rick's run
2002: NIT
2003: Round of 32
2004: Round of 64
2005: Final Four
2006: NIT
2007: Round of 32
2008: Elite 8
2009: Elite 8
2010: Round of 64
2011: Round of 64
2012: Final Four
2013: Champs
2014: Sweet 16
2015: Elite 8
2016: Banned
2017: Round of 32

Post Rick
2018: NIT
2019: Round of 64
2020: Ranked #14 in the Final Poll
2021: NIT

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And you're acting like the Global Pandemic that cost our 2020 team that spent the entire season in the top 10 is just a footnote.

False, I have mentioned that team in every post I've made. You have mentioned that team, albeit, incorrectly. You have repeatedly stated they were in the top 10 the entire year, yet the final poll they were 14th. They were in the top 10 most of the year but they were fading a bit. I have said repeatedly that team was good and it could have made noise, but we'll never know. A lot of people around here considered that team to be soft and headed nowhere, I didn't share that opinion, I honestly had no opinion, still don't. Good team though. Other people couldn't wait for Nwora and Enoch to leave. I'm not saying I was that guy, but many were.

I have also not said UofL is irrelevant. You are building a straw man argument there. I have said they are a taking a giant step back from their typical standing in the landscape of college basketball at this juncture in time, because they obviously are. I mean this is clear to everybody but Levors4ever. I did add decimation is a possibility, and I think it would be healthy for fans to be aware of such a possibility so as to not get blind-sided and then start the Mack bashing... this program could get hit with a 2 year ban and multi scholarship penalty, that would be crushing. Not saying it will, but it could. The NCAA is not our friends. Surely you can agree with that, if nothing else I've typed.


I'm not comparing Rick to Mack because Mack inherited a far worse situation, a team in and out of the hands of the NCAA rules infractions committee. I'm not sure why you are comparing Rick and Mack, but since you are year 4 Rick hit the Final Four and Mack missed the NCAA tourney and fired members of his staff....

That said, it's ok to disagree. It really is. I hope the Cards get it rolling next year. They return a couple very solid players and flying under the radar could be a very good thing for them.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

False, I have mentioned that team in every post I've made. You have mentioned that team, albeit, incorrectly. You have repeatedly stated they were in the top 10 the entire year, yet the final poll they were 14th. They were in the top 10 most of the year but they were fading a bit. I have said repeatedly that team was good and it could have made noise, but we'll never know. A lot of people around here considered that team to be soft and headed nowhere, I didn't share that opinion, I honestly had no opinion, still don't. Good team though. Other people couldn't wait for Nwora and Enoch to leave. I'm not saying I was that guy, but many were.

I have also not said UofL is irrelevant. You are building a straw man argument there. I have said they are a taking a giant step back from their typical standing in the landscape of college basketball at this juncture in time, because they obviously are. I mean this is clear to everybody but Levors4ever. I did add decimation is a possibility, and I think it would be healthy for fans to be aware of such a possibility so as to not get blind-sided and then start the Mack bashing... this program could get hit with a 2 year ban and multi scholarship penalty, that would be crushing. Not saying it will, but it could. The NCAA is not our friends. Surely you can agree with that, if nothing else I've typed.


I'm not comparing Rick to Mack because Mack inherited a far worse situation, a team in and out of the hands of the NCAA rules infractions committee. I'm not sure why you are comparing Rick and Mack, but since you are year 4 Rick hit the Final Four and Mack missed the NCAA tourney and fired members of his staff....

That said, it's ok to disagree. It really is. I hope the Cards get it rolling next year. They return a couple very solid players and flying under the radar could be a very good thing for them.

I think we agree for the most part, I think it's just our definition of terms. I think these 4 points are generally where we can agree and meet in the middle.

-Mack has kept us above water and we are in good health from a talent standpoint.

-I think we're just off on the scandal effects. I do agree the scandal costing us Rick and that roster with Malik, Nwora, Perry, VJ with Romeo and that other class coming in 2018 is a HUGE setback because we were set to be very very very good.

-The scandal took us down from the elite place we were with Rick. So it did hurt us there, but I don't think we cratered like an Indiana.

-I think it's possible that a few more uninspiring years could really set us back permanently. So we are in a tight spot.

I think we fundamentally agree. I'm actually not really a big Mack guy, I just think for now he's a GOOD coach, not great, but not bad. But, a potential to possibly be great. He'll have a solid roster and keep us competitive. But, I don't know if we can take the next step with him. He's no Rick, but he's no Crean either lol.

No where we should be or want to be, but not as bad as it could be. But, a new day is here and hopefully 2022 is better. Go Cards!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I think we agree for the most part, I think it's just our definition of terms. I think these 4 points are generally where we can agree and meet in the middle.

-Mack has kept us above water and we are in good health from a talent standpoint.

-I think we're just off on the scandal effects. I do agree the scandal costing us Rick and that roster with Malik, Nwora, Perry, VJ with Romeo and that other class coming in 2018 is a HUGE setback because we were set to be very very very good.

-The scandal took us down from the elite place we were with Rick. So it did hurt us there, but I don't think we cratered like an Indiana.

-I think it's possible that a few more uninspiring years could really set us back permanently. So we are in a tight spot.

I think we fundamentally agree. I'm actually not really a big Mack guy, I just think for now he's a GOOD coach, not great, but not bad. But, a potential to possibly be great. He'll have a solid roster and keep us competitive. But, I don't know if we can take the next step with him. He's no Rick, but he's no Crean either lol.

No where we should be or want to be, but not as bad as it could be. But, a new day is here and hopefully 2022 is better. Go Cards!

I mean we're both pulling for them. I'm probably 20 years older than you so I probably find all things worse than they actually are, and you probably find all things better than they actually are LMFAO

Here's a link I got off the main board where we are projected nationally, mid 40s overall 8th in ACC. Which is not bad considering the issues. It's not irrelevant, it's just not playing for top seeding either. Which again, I'm cool with. This is not an overnight rebuild to that level.

To be clear I love your overall insight man. You have great angles on a lot of topics. I'm just an asshole most days.

ROTHSTEIN 45: Early Preseason 2021-2022

NCAA Men's College Basketball top 45 early preseason rankings and projected starting lineups for 2021-2022 season from Jon Rothstein.

collegehoopstoday.com

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I mean we're both pulling for them. I'm probably 20 years older than you so I probably find all things worse than they actually are, and you probably find all things better than they actually are LMFAO

Here's a link I got off the main board where we are projected nationally, mid 40s overall 8th in ACC. Which is not bad considering the issues. It's not irrelevant, it's just not playing for top seeding either. Which again, I'm cool with. This is not an overnight rebuild to that level.

To be clear I love your overall insight man. You have great angles on a lot of topics. I'm just an asshole most days.

ROTHSTEIN 45: Early Preseason 2021-2022

NCAA Men's College Basketball top 45 early preseason rankings and projected starting lineups for 2021-2022 season from Jon Rothstein.

collegehoopstoday.com

I don't let online disagreements get me down lol

Next year I'm not having too big of expectations. You don't lose DJ/Carlik and get better. Now, can Malik and Sam take big jumps, YES! But Malik hasn't played a full season the last 2 years and we gotta be careful. Sam looks the part, but he may be Wayne Blackshear that's good but not who you want as your best player. I think we have shooters and Ellis can be a good PG but I feel like he's Chris Jones level. It feels like it could be a lesser version of the 2013-14 team, less top talent like a Russ/Trezl/Terry but more size and overall talent. ACC is down too, could help.

I kinda hope we do get the ban next March so we can go into 2022-23 with no more clouds. This is a good roster that can get a lot of experience this year and we can get another good piece or 2 for 2023 if we know that we can play in March. Let the young guns ride and get a jump start for the next few years.

Worst case scenario. We're a bubble team this year that bores the fans with an early exit. Then we get the ban in 2023 which will set us back in recruiting.