The NCAA's punishment for the Brian Bowen scandal

[uoflcard]

...will be unnecessary. By the time that penalty is handed down 3-4 years from now, we will have already long suffered our penalty. We might as well have had all 5 scholarships for this year's recruiting class taken away, because our best class in history deserted us. We will not sign a significant recruiting class until after this cloud passes. Unless we sneak into the tournament this year (which I doubt with our 0-11 record against RPI Top 50), we are essentially on a 3 year tournament ban starting this year.

 

[REDFISTFURY3]

...will be unnecessary. By the time that penalty is handed down 3-4 years from now, we will have already long suffered our penalty. We might as well have had all 5 scholarships for this year's recruiting class taken away, because our best class in history deserted us. We will not sign a significant recruiting class until after this cloud passes. Unless we sneak into the tournament this year (which I doubt with our 0-11 record against RPI Top 50), we are essentially on a 3 year tournament ban starting this year.

Worst year ever as a Cardinal fan Worst ever! This nitemare of a season can't end fast enough

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

...will be unnecessary. By the time that penalty is handed down 3-4 years from now, we will have already long suffered our penalty. We might as well have had all 5 scholarships for this year's recruiting class taken away, because our best class in history deserted us. We will not sign a significant recruiting class until after this cloud passes. Unless we sneak into the tournament this year (which I doubt with our 0-11 record against RPI Top 50), we are essentially on a 3 year tournament ban starting this year.

You're right and it's a bad spot, terrible really. I've wondered for a while now if it wouldn't be better to just sit down with the NCAA and negotiate a settlement of some sort in this matter. It may be the best thing in the long run.

 

[STLNBSE]

Why are people convinced we will be punished for the Bowen incident any more than UK for the Bam? Or Arizona? Or any other if the countless number of programs that have or will be punished for the same type of thing?

 

[CardVille]

Why are people convinced we will be punished for the Bowen incident any more than UK for the Bam? Or Arizona? Or any other if the countless number of programs that have or will be punished for the same type of thing?

Because we are on probation. Even if they hit everyone with a hand slap, ours would be worse since we are currently on probation.

 

[nccardfan]

You're right and it's a bad spot, terrible really. I've wondered for a while now if it wouldn't be better to just sit down with the NCAA and negotiate a settlement of some sort in this matter. It may be the best thing in the long run.

Nothing to negotiate. Jordan Fair gone. Pitino gone. Bowen never played a lick.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Nothing to negotiate. Jordan Fair gone. Pitino gone. Bowen never played a lick.

That's all true but it's like the current sanctions. AM was already gone, even if Pitino had already been fired the program was going to be sanctioned. I can't see where the program is going to avoid further sanctions for this one. To me, the sooner UL can get the cloud away from the program the better.

 

[nccardfan]

That's all true but it's like the current sanctions. AM was already gone, even if Pitino had already been fired the program was going to be sanctioned. I can't see where the program is going to avoid further sanctions for this one. To me, the sooner UL can get the cloud away from the program the better.

I would be more concerned with vacating the wins from UK based on the impermissible benefits that Adebayo received since he has no eligibility left...

 

[Chapman123]

That's all true but it's like the current sanctions. AM was already gone, even if Pitino had already been fired the program was going to be sanctioned. I can't see where the program is going to avoid further sanctions for this one. To me, the sooner UL can get the cloud away from the program the better.

You are half right...except Bown never played a second, BAM on the other hand..

 

[Chapman123]

UK will probably lose their "all time wins" that they beat their chest about....not that anyone else even cares about that since they play in a garbage conference.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I would be more concerned with vacating the wins from UK based on the impermissible benefits that Adebayo received since he has no eligibility left...

That's true and certainly possible.

 

[fredburgcard]

I don’t think the NCAA will consider the impact of the Bowen payment has on UofL before they investigate. Louisville is low hanging fruit to the NCAA. They already have an affidavit that quotes a UofL assistant plotting to funnel money from a shoe company to Bowen’s family. The same document quotes the assistant advising of the need to be discreet because of Louisville already being on probation. It will be very easy for the NCAA to hammer UofL just to prove they are relevant.

Where the NCAA will likely back off are in the cases where there’s no evidence officials at a school knew of agents giving benefits to players. They don’t want to kill their cash cow by sanctioning all the major programs.

The NCAA completely ignored the equity issue in taking away three seasons wins, a final four and a national championship because a couple of players attended a fourth rate strip show. Don’t expect them to do what’s right in dealing with the Bowen payments.

 

[KozmasAgain]

As long as they punish all schools equally I am fine. I read somewhere they estimate by the time it is done there be 50 schools involved. If they punish all the schools there won't be an NCAA anymore. My biggest concern is the current administration won't stand up for any injustice leveled on us.

 

[Rockfly78]

You are half right...except Bown never played a second, BAM on the other hand..

To the same point, UK didn’t pay him or arrange for it. Hadn’t even started recruiting him yet. Bowen on the other hand.....

The bam issue may be NC states problem. Much like blackney and LSU

 

[Steelers2012]

To the same point, UK didn’t pay him or arrange for it. Hadn’t even started recruiting him yet. Bowen on the other hand.....

The bam issue may be NC states problem. Much like blackney and LSU

That may partially be true. But, regardless of how he came by possible impermissible benefits does not change the likely fact that he would be ruled ineligible to have participated as a result of those impermissible benefits. Meaning, Calipari and UK may not be sanctioned, but the games in which Bam participated while at UK could very well have to be vacated.

 

[rockycard]

Why are people convinced we will be punished for the Bowen incident any more than UK for the Bam? Or Arizona? Or any other if the countless number of programs that have or will be punished for the same type of thing?

We will look like choir boys compared to what will be revealed from other teams.

 

[Rockfly78]

That may partially be true. But, regardless of how he came by possible impermissible benefits does not change the likely fact that he would be ruled ineligible to have participated as a result of those impermissible benefits. Meaning, Calipari and UK may not be sanctioned, but the games in which Bam participated while at UK could very well have to be vacated.

Very true. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The NCAA will have a big decision to make in regards to a ton of cases like this. I think there will be a lot cases of agents overstepping independently and leaving the schools holding the bag.

 

[Chapman123]

To the same point, UK didn’t pay him or arrange for it. Hadn’t even started recruiting him yet. Bowen on the other hand.....

The bam issue may be NC states problem. Much like blackney and LSU

If he was paid by anyone then he was an ineligible player. So if he played those games then they are vacated. Even if UK had nothing to do with him being paid he may have screwed UK

 

[billoliver40]

That may partially be true. But, regardless of how he came by possible impermissible benefits does not change the likely fact that he would be ruled ineligible to have participated as a result of those impermissible benefits. Meaning, Calipari and UK may not be sanctioned, but the games in which Bam participated while at UK could very well have to be vacated.

And that's the point. It really doesn't matter where Bam was 'supposed' to go.
By CURRENT NCAA rules he would be ineligible and the Cats forfeit that season. If Adebayo, his family admit to taking the money, it would be a done deal.

I'm betting that none will agree to speak to NCAA investigators and would likely have to be subpoenaed by a true law enforcement agency before they spoke.

If it happens, it happens.

 

[zipp]

First, let's get one fact straight... U of L went on NCAA probation on June 15, 2017. (LINK) Brian Bowen committed to U of L on June 3, 2017. Unless additional FBI evidence after that commitment date is uncovered, the alleged violation involving Jordan Fair occurred BEFORE U of L was put on probation.

Slapd!ck hopes notwithstanding, the NCAA will not be motivated to go easy on anyone incl. U of L on pay-for-play. The only good things for U of L are that our exposure to potentially ineligible players is minimal, and we've probably taken as much medicine as we can take. That is, we can't remove those banners again.

There's no reason for slappies to try to rationalize their way around Adebayo's issues. It matters little whether Pitino Lite has been implicated yet. Bam's just one of almost forty 5-star kids to commit and play for LPT. That's a lot of land mines to avoid esp. if we've just seen the tip of the iceberg...

 

[Rockfly78]

If he was paid by anyone then he was an ineligible player. So if he played those games then they are vacated. Even if UK had nothing to do with him being paid he may have screwed UK

I know, I get it. But we’ll see. Again, remember Blackney at LSU? He was granted immunity in exchange for cooperation

 

[Rockfly78]

First, let's get one fact straight... U of L went on NCAA probation on June 15, 2017. (LINK) Brian Bowen committed to U of L on June 3, 2017. Unless additional FBI evidence after that commitment date is uncovered, the alleged violation involving Jordan Fair occurred BEFORE U of L was put on probation.

Slapd!ck hopes notwithstanding, the NCAA will not be motivated to go easy on anyone incl. U of L on pay-for-play. The only good things for U of L are that our exposure to potentially ineligible players is minimal, and we've probably taken as much medicine as we can take. That is, we can't remove those banners again.

There's no reason for slappies to try to rationalize their way around Adebayo's issues. It matters little whether Pitino Lite has been implicated yet. Bam's just one of almost forty 5-star kids to commit and play for LPT. That's a lot of land mines to avoid esp. if we've just seen the tip of the iceberg...

Hey if we lose that season then so be it. As long as a banner isn’t in play I don’t really care. I still don’t think it happens but whatever.

I don’t know the timeline of your probation. But the fbi report has one of Louisville’s coaches on tape saying “we have to keep this on the downlow because we are already on probation and we can get in a lot of trouble.” So throw the timeline out the window.

It’s also possible UL was told about the probation prior to June 3. Based on the fbi report, it sounds likely.

 

[zipp]

Hey if we lose that season then so be it. As long as a banner isn’t in play I don’t really care. I still don’t think it happens but whatever.

I don’t know the timeline of your probation. But the fbi report has one of Louisville’s coaches on tape saying “we have to keep this on the downlow because we are already on probation and we can get in a lot of trouble.” So throw the timeline out the window.

It’s also possible UL was told about the probation prior to June 3. Based on the fbi report, it sounds likely.

Your team has been loaded with 5-star players since Lite walked onto campus.

What a junior associate assistant basketball coach knows or doesn't as far as dates of record is irrelevant. The NCAA report was issued nearly two weeks after Bowen committed. The institution doesn't know anything about NCAA information releases more than 24 hours in advance, if that long.

Little chance this violation occurred while on probation. Sucks for slapd!cks...

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Your team has been loaded with 5-star players since Lite walked onto campus.

What a junior associate assistant basketball coach knows or doesn't as far as dates of record is irrelevant. The NCAA report was issued nearly two weeks after Bowen committed. The institution doesn't know anything about NCAA information releases more than 24 hours in advance, if that long.

Little chance this violation occurred while on probation. Sucks for slapd!cks...

That's very possible but it did occur while UL was waiting on their fate from the then current NCAA investigation. I'm not sure that makes it better.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

As long as they punish all schools equally I am fine.

Prepare to not be fine.

 

[Rockfly78]

Your team has been loaded with 5-star players since Lite walked onto campus.

What a junior associate assistant basketball coach knows or doesn't as far as dates of record is irrelevant. The NCAA report was issued nearly two weeks after Bowen committed. The institution doesn't know anything about NCAA information releases more than 24 hours in advance, if that long.

Little chance this violation occurred while on probation. Sucks for slapd!cks...

You’re becoming paranoid and dillusional. You’re paranoid of 5 star players. It’s almost like you don’t want your next coach to recruit well. You’re dillusional to think UL will slip by because the Vegas meeting took place a few days before your probation sentance was handed down. The recording included an admission of guilt and willingness to proceed with Bowen despite the impending probation.

 

[zipp]

You’re becoming paranoid and dillusional. You’re paranoid of 5 star players. It’s almost like you don’t want your next coach to recruit well. You’re dillusional to think UL will slip by because the Vegas meeting took place a few days before your probation sentance was handed down. The recording included an admission of guilt and willingness to proceed with Bowen despite the impending probation.

The infraction is while "on probation". That's black-and-white. And Jordan Fair did not speak for U of L administration anymore than Bam Adebayo was typical of LPT basketball players. See how that works?...

 

[Rockfly78]

The infraction is while "on probation". That's black-and-white. And Jordan Fair did not speak for U of L administration anymore than Bam Adebayo was typical of LPT basketball players. See how that works?...

 

[billoliver40]

Under current rules, Bam would have been an ineligible player for accepting money for play. As would any player, anywhere. The school would be subject to voiding any games those players participated in.

The difference in what is alleged is that employees (coaches) of some schools are indicated as having direct influence on the money. That would make those coaches and schools responsible and liable for penalty.

As a UK fan, this is a simple misunderstanding and the words 'bad loan'
Meant Adebayo refused any payment and the agent was covering money.
As a somewhat rational adult, there absolutely has to be questions as to over years and various coaches and players and the players 'people' were not involved.

Maybe no questions.

Too much money. Or as a friend of mine reminded me toouch LACK of money to the kids.

Boys and girls, remember the old saying...right is right even if nobody is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.

Just depends on what the college presidents want to do...that's what the NCAA is end of the day.

 

[rockycard]

Under current rules, Bam would have been an ineligible player for accepting money for play. As would any player, anywhere. The school would be subject to voiding any games those players participated in.

The difference in what is alleged is that employees (coaches) of some schools are indicated as having direct influence on the money. That would make those coaches and schools responsible and liable for penalty.

As a UK fan, this is a simple misunderstanding and the words 'bad loan'
Meant Adebayo refused any payment and the agent was covering money.
As a somewhat rational adult, there absolutely has to be questions as to over years and various coaches and players and the players 'people' were not involved.

Maybe no questions.

Too much money. Or as a friend of mine reminded me toouch LACK of money to the kids.

Boys and girls, remember the old saying...right is right even if nobody is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.

Just depends on what the college presidents want to do...that's what the NCAA is end of the day.

You have ZERO knowledge of the total findings by the FBI, they may have Cal himself involved. Just because you heard just a piece of the news, doesn’t mean you’ve heard everything.

 

[billoliver40]

You have ZERO knowledge of the total findings by the FBI, they may have Cal himself involved. Just because you heard just a piece of the news, doesn’t mean you’ve heard everything.

And they may. They may have thirty coaches on tape somewhere.
They may have Kentucky PLAYERS on tape for all anyone knows.

Look....this isn't about what the Justice Department may have. It's about what the NCAA decides to do with the information they DO get.
No one knows yet. Some information will be sealed. Some will come out in open court.
Until then, nobody is clear, but nobody is under the NCAA hammer until they decide to act.

 

[RonEJones]

The thing with Bam - he’s denying it. At this time, all we have is an expense report from an agent underling saying it was Bam. Further, what to say Bam and others say they paid for their half in cash? The NCAA can’t prove they didn’t. He said, she said.

UL, on the other hand, admitted to the stripper parties and also told the NCAA who should be ineligible.

That’s the difference.

 

[billoliver40]

There are a lot of things for the NCAA to decide to come to grips with.
Do you go back and strip fifteen years of record?
Do you probate ten, fifteen top thirty teams from next years tourney?
Do you say a 'loan' is fine as long as you pay it back? If so, how long does the player have?
Or do they just say "From this point forward these are the new rules"?

It's gonna be an interesting couple of years.

Then we get to look at college football.
Oh, boy.

 

[zipp]

The thing with Bam - he’s denying it. At this time, all we have is an expense report from an agent underling saying it was Bam. Further, what to say Bam and others say they paid for their half in cash? The NCAA can’t prove they didn’t. He said, she said.

UL, on the other hand, admitted to the stripper parties and also told the NCAA who should be ineligible.

That’s the difference.

"The difference" is your case is just getting started. Those bank and phone records will prove or disprove a lot...No one will need personal testimony.

When glibly talking about he said-she sad, it also bears mentioning that lying to the FBI is a felony. Why would Adebayo lie under oath and in the face of damning evidence to protect LPT at this point?

 

[zipp]

 

[warrior-cat]

UK will probably lose their "all time wins" that they beat their chest about....not that anyone else even cares about that since they play in a garbage conference.

Unlikely, Bam played one year and the other teams close to us in wins were also implicated.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

"The difference" is your case is just getting started. Those bank and phone records will prove or disprove a lot...No one will need personal testimony.

When glibly talking about he said-she sad, it also bears mentioning that lying to the FBI is a felony. Why would Adebayo lie under oath and in the face of damning evidence to protect LPT at this point?

Why would he talk to the FBI at all? No one has to.

 

[zipp]

Why would he talk to the FBI at all? No one has to.

Two words--"subpoena power"

 

[zipp]

Unlikely, Bam played one year and the other teams close to us in wins were also implicated.

Yeah, that's the only thing slappies can console themselves with, everyone goes down together. Of course, not everyone has a title and Final Four banners to lose...

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Two words--"subpoena power"

That's not the FBI, that would be US Attorneys, who have already said they aren't interested in kids or their families. So, I would bet pretty large that Bam never speaks to them or the NCAA either. He can afford a high priced lawyer now, they can't touch him.