Real talk on calipari
- Thread starter KerryRhodes
- Start date
Why don't you point out where I said that zipp said that UK sucks. Your comprehension skills should make this super easy for you.
You're missing the point Zipp, it's comparing apples to oranges. Saban does get the top recruiting classes year in and year out like Calipari, but he gets them 3 years, added on top of other top recruiting classes.
Alabama's preseason number 1 ranking isn't based on unknown's, it's based on returning players. UK's is entirely based on unknown players, and past results Calipari has gotten.
UK has done better than KU and Duke in the OAD done era, in fact UK has better overall results than everyone in the time Calipari has been there.
Total and complete BS. Coach K has more titles during the same time frame and that is totally undeniable.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
For a guy who loves stats and data, you're basing an awful lot of your arguments on hypotheticals.
I still have no idea why you keep talking about nick Saban. He's a football coach
Other basketball coaches besides Pitino Lite don't get to keep their OAD kids either. And football coaches besides Saban get to keep their star players for three years.
Slapd!cks typically act like their team is the only team subject to anything negative that affects them. Like a referee's whistle.
I'm not missing any point. You're lacking reading comprehension, as hop points out.
"Elite program," my a$$...
K's results in 2010 are during the OAD era and those results would be incorporated into the analysis.
I said go easy on "them" at 2:05 pm yesterday- not go easy on Rockfly.
"Them" is plural - it was a reference to multiple posters - not just one poster.
My comment at that time was a general statement in regards to the nearly certain future flood of traffic of UK fans that would be joining the discussion - and I was just bracing Zipp for potential moron responses made by visitors that don't know how to comprehend other people's posts.
Because many LPT fans think they have a transcendental coach. And except for recruiting, you clearly do not. In fact as a coach per se, you don't even have a great one.
Real-world data like I'm presenting typically can't address the hypothesis completely. "What would Lite's record be in the ACC?" You guys aren't getting into a real basketball conference anytime soon. So, you have to look at ACC results and where your team was situated competitively this past season.
UNC had 4 losses; FSU, ND, and Louisville had 6; and UVA and Duke had 7. Hence, my estimate of 5-7 losses for LPT competing with this same group of teams. Most folks agree now that your team wasn't quite at the level of Carolina.
And this differential would apply each year to your won-lost record. Lite would probably have something in the range of 20-25 more losses over the course of his LPT career had you guys played in a good conference.
In fact, I'm not even sure an LPT team like 2014's would have made the NCAA tourney. You were an 8-seed that year outta the SEC. And how would a team fare in the ACC that lost to unranked SEC teams like LSU, South Carolina, and Arkansas twice? Probably not well.
"Elite program," my a$$...
Kids have been jumping early to the NBA for 20+ years. ALL team rosters are affected by that, not just LPT's. It doesn't happen to freshmen as much as it does LPT's. But it may affect upperclassmen elsewhere even more.
Not to mention, Pitino Lite tries to get his kids to make that jump as soon as possible. So, is this even a valid argument for a slapd!ck?
Rather, just another example of slappies trying to roll those goalposts.
"Elite program," my a$$...
Not to mention, Pitino Lite tries to get his kids to make that jump as soon as possible. So, is this even a valid argument for a slapd!ck?
Rather, just another example of slappies trying to roll those goalposts.
"Elite program," my a$$...
And I never said that you did. But I was waiting for someone to address your attempt at deflection on point...
What you SAID was that I can go tell other fanbases that their coaches suck. Implying that I was saying that about Pitino Lite.
Another slapd!ck try-and-fail.
"Elite program," my a$$...
When discussing what UK would do if they were in the ACC you need to keep in mind that if they were in the ACC then in all likelihood UK wouldn't be playing Kansas, Michigan State, UCLA, etc in their non-conference unless it was mandated by a conference vs. conference challenge. So their overall record might not be that much different.
UK loads up their non-conference because of the weakness of the SEC. Once conference play starts for UK they typically only have a very small handful of ranked teams to play in the final 3 months of the season. In fact coming into the tournament this year UK had only beaten 2 teams that finished the season ranked and this was for a team that won the SEC regular season and conference tournament.
UK loads up their non-conference because of the weakness of the SEC. Once conference play starts for UK they typically only have a very small handful of ranked teams to play in the final 3 months of the season. In fact coming into the tournament this year UK had only beaten 2 teams that finished the season ranked and this was for a team that won the SEC regular season and conference tournament.
There is only one fact here. North Carolina was better and they won. Everything else is repeated hypotheticals and guesses and assumptions. All of which you are entitled to. I think it's a waste of time to argue hypotheticals.
Like uncle Rico said : "coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we'd be state champs. No doubt. No doubt in my mind"
I think I'm keeping everything in mind, thanks... Louisville played LPT, Purdue, Baylor, Wichita State,and IU in the ACC preseason. LPT played Kansas, UCLA, Carolina, Louisville, and Michigan State OOC.
Sorry, I'm not seeing a lotta difference between those OOC schedules considering the huge difference between their conference schedules.
"Elite program," my a$$...
There's nothing hypothetical about saying if you played in a much tougher conference, you'd have more losses each year. It's why LPT is happy in the SEC.
"Elite program," my a$$...
This is true. Otherwise our strength of schedule would reflect profound weakness and it doesn't. this year we finished with SOS 14. There are 4 ACC and 4 sec teams in the top 15 SOS. And SEC team is number 1 (UL number 2. Good job). So I don't think you can make such a strong case for this hypothetical UK in the ACC talk.
I watched the games and Kentucky looked just fine when compared to the ACC. We split with UNC and made an elite 8. Not bad.
The only area where I can see UK having trouble in the ACC is with the depth of the ACC and the "grind" of it. UKs young teams typically falter at some point for a short stretch throughout their seasons and lose a few games or barely squeak out wins against bad teams. That doesn't always work in the ACC, if you're not "on" you'll lose unless you're playing Boston College
The ACC had 11 of its 15 teams finish inside the Pomeroy top 53....the SEC had 5 of its 14 teams inside the top 53. Plus the top of the ACC is so much tougher than the top of the SEC. I mean UNC, Duke, UL, Notre Dame, FSU and Virginia is an insane group of 6 teams for a single conference and this doesn't include the fact that teams like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and NC State...schools that typically field top 25-30 teams weren't even good this year. Louisville had a stretch of games where they played UK, UVA, IU, Notre Dame in consecutive games. From December 21st though the end of the season UL never went more than 3 games without having to face a ranked team. From December 21st through the end of the year UL played 10 ranked teams...UK played 5 and they were never back-to-back games or even close to one another on the schedule.
So I do think a Freshman lead team like UK would succumb to the grind of the ACC a little more than most UK fans probably want to admit.
The ACC had 11 of its 15 teams finish inside the Pomeroy top 53....the SEC had 5 of its 14 teams inside the top 53. Plus the top of the ACC is so much tougher than the top of the SEC. I mean UNC, Duke, UL, Notre Dame, FSU and Virginia is an insane group of 6 teams for a single conference and this doesn't include the fact that teams like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and NC State...schools that typically field top 25-30 teams weren't even good this year. Louisville had a stretch of games where they played UK, UVA, IU, Notre Dame in consecutive games. From December 21st though the end of the season UL never went more than 3 games without having to face a ranked team. From December 21st through the end of the year UL played 10 ranked teams...UK played 5 and they were never back-to-back games or even close to one another on the schedule.
So I do think a Freshman lead team like UK would succumb to the grind of the ACC a little more than most UK fans probably want to admit.
That is a hypothetical, But enough of that. We offset our week conference schedule with a very strong non conference schedule. So it largely evens out. The SOS reflects that.
I'd say when Tourney time rolls around, both teams are ready to roll
I would say it would remain roughly the same...Cal's avg record right now is 31-7 (for reference Pitino's is 27-9) during the same span) ...and his average SEC record is 14-4. So I do think if he's losing 4 games in any given year in the SEC that he would likely lose a couple more in the ACC, but I don't think it would have a huge impact on their program because UKs an elite enough program to move to the ACC where most of the other SEC programs wouldn't handle it as well. I just think the grind and the step up in coaching and talent would probably wear on UK game in and game out whereas its not as much of a grind for the SEC.
I'll end my side of the debate when I want to, thanks...
My POV goes way beyond hypothetical to the point of being intuitive. You play tougher teams, e.g., the ACC, you lose more games. Sorry, you'll have to prove otherwise. You're talking about a comparison between the best conference in the history of college basketball and a mid-major conference except for LPT.
And your OOC schedule was no tougher than another ACC team close-by, Louisville.
"Elite program," my a$$...
You're probably worried about getting deleted because reality frustrates you. You also took the quote out of context. In the last five years, the BEST Pitino Lite has done is perform in line with talent and expectations...
It's easy for slapd!cks to gloss over the fact that, except for one year, Lite's teams are predicted to make the Final Four EVERY YEAR. His team has really only outperformed one year, 2011. Is he responsible for recruiting and getting LPT to the level of those expectations, yes. Is he also responsible for meeting those expectations, YES.
Unless the goalposts are on wheels.
"Elite program," my a$$...
Just out of curiosity - can you post the rest of the preseason top 4 from each of those years and their corresponding Final Four %? Since a top 4 preseason ranking = "predicted to make the final four," I'd expect that number to be really, really high. Like way higher than Calipari's 50% number.
I could do the analysis, but it wouldn't settle anything because I've never said no other coaches underperform. That's not the debate. It's whether Pitino Lite underperforms expectations. In fact, I'm dead sure there are other coaches in his camp.
Is that what you want to debate, or something else?
"Elite program," my a$$...
Probably not worth it zipp. Would be a PITA to dig up the info.
For the record I'm generally in agreement with you on this subject. Calipari should have at least one more title. 2010,2014,2015 should have produced one IMO.
It could easily be argued that he's a victim of his own success, recruiting-wise. If he didn't recruit so well, there wouldn't be such lofty expectations. BUT Lite should be able to deliver a little better on those expectations.
Not a lot better--you can't win a crapshoot tournament every year. But some LPT fans put on the pretense that he's in that rarified air--Saban-esque--because of so many Elite Eights and Final Fours.
The issue is at those points in the tournament, he's up against the few other best teams in the country, in principle, or at least those playing the best at that time. And he can't consistently beat those teams.
Not saying the guys sucks, certainly not considering the level of talent he can land and manage. Just that he's not in the position of teaching everyone else how to coach basketball.
"Elite program," my a$$...
If you don't like the definition of the word hypothetical you'll have to take that up with Websters. I can't prove anything otherwise and neither can you because it's a hypothetical situation. Jeez.
I've been critical of the sec at times. Pretty often actually. But did you watch the tourney at all? Maybe we were both off base. I'd say the sec was under rated and the ACC was over rated this year.
I happened to post these numbers earlier
Since 2009-2010:
When Kentucky is pre season top 4 they reached the final four 3 out of 7 times for 43%
Every other program reached the final four 6 out 25 times for 24%
Is that what you were asking?
Just remember this: you can come on OUR board and brag all you want about your precious cayuts while we cannot do the same on your ignorant boards. Just remember that. This whole officiating thing is AGAIN branding your big baboon (oops there I go again insulting all baboons) nation all over the USA. And if I see another thread comparing Tom "the fool" Leach to a real pro like Paul Rogers . . . . I think I'll puke. You should be totally ashamed of yourself and your cayut ilk.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
Here's the thing....other coaches have NBA draft picks and they don't win titles either...also, most coaches have NBA draft picks that aren't Freshman and still don't win titles.
Sean Miller has had 6 draft picks in the last 3 years and hasn't made the Final Four. In the last days of Rick Barnes at Texas he was putting 2 and 3 kids in the NBA every year and rarely even making it to the Elite 8. Kansas puts a couple of kids in the NBA every year and is always ripe to be upset in March. Duke was beaten in the first round twice with the greatest coach in the history of the game and multiple NBA draft picks. Bottom line...Cal has squandered two VERY good teams in 2010 and 2015, he took two teams that had no business being in the Final Four...to the Final Four in 2011 and 2014.
Saying Cal is a failure simply because he has loads of Freshman draft picks and isn't winning every title, every time he has the most talent is being far too short sided. Absolutely EVERY program and EVERY coach has had great teams that don't win titles. Bill Self is the most underachieving coach of the last 20 years and Sean Miller is the new-age version of Self. If you want to point fingers at coaches who do less with more, point to those two. Don't point to Cal simply because he's at UK and say he's a failure when he's going to the Final Four literally 50% of the time while KU, Duke, Zona get upset every year.
I absolutely despised Cal for 20 years and said he would never win a title when he came to UK and he's actually impressed me with how successful he's been even though he's squandered a couple of title chances.
Sean Miller has had 6 draft picks in the last 3 years and hasn't made the Final Four. In the last days of Rick Barnes at Texas he was putting 2 and 3 kids in the NBA every year and rarely even making it to the Elite 8. Kansas puts a couple of kids in the NBA every year and is always ripe to be upset in March. Duke was beaten in the first round twice with the greatest coach in the history of the game and multiple NBA draft picks. Bottom line...Cal has squandered two VERY good teams in 2010 and 2015, he took two teams that had no business being in the Final Four...to the Final Four in 2011 and 2014.
Saying Cal is a failure simply because he has loads of Freshman draft picks and isn't winning every title, every time he has the most talent is being far too short sided. Absolutely EVERY program and EVERY coach has had great teams that don't win titles. Bill Self is the most underachieving coach of the last 20 years and Sean Miller is the new-age version of Self. If you want to point fingers at coaches who do less with more, point to those two. Don't point to Cal simply because he's at UK and say he's a failure when he's going to the Final Four literally 50% of the time while KU, Duke, Zona get upset every year.
I absolutely despised Cal for 20 years and said he would never win a title when he came to UK and he's actually impressed me with how successful he's been even though he's squandered a couple of title chances.
I'm not coming here to brag and I don't think I have. I am with you on the ky board. I got banned myself a couple weeks ago by the UK mods (ban was lifted the next day). I was actually defending Louisville and got banned - believe it or not.Just remember this: you can come on OUR board and brag all you want about your precious cayuts while we cannot do the same on your ignorant boards. Just remember that. This whole officiating thing is AGAIN branding your big baboon (oops there I go again insulting all baboons) nation all over the USA. And if I see another thread comparing Tom "the fool" Leach to a real pro like Paul Rogers . . . . I think I'll puke. You should be totally ashamed of yourself and your cayut ilk.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
I am not ashamed of myself. Why would I be? However, I am ashamed of the fans who have taken it way to far regarding the Higgins fellow.
Would you like me to quote you the SEC's record-to-date against Top 25 teams this year? (No, you don't.) I can quote you the ACC's as well. (You don't want that either.)
"Elite program," my a$$...
Again, the debate isn't Pitino Lite sucks and that all other coaches are better than him. The debate is that he's not as good as slapd!cks think he is.
"Elite program," my a$$...
He is most certainly NOT on the same plane as Saban. He is in his own stratosphere right now IMO.
Calipari is probably in that top 10 group. K deserves his own spot as far as basketball because of the 5 titles and sustained excellence.
The next group probably includes Pitino and Williams, then you get to Cal IMO. He's no slouch - now if he is still coaching when K and Roy and CRP retire, I don't see an obvious other choice to take over that top spot, unless Self learns how to win in March before then or Billy Donovan is back in college.
The OP stated Cal "lets them do whatever they want on and off the court." Don't know about the first part but off the court I don't recall any of the one & dones ever having an off the court problem. That loss to NC really had to hurt because I firmly believe had they won that game they would have won it all.
Latest posts
-
-
Anyone want a matchup against College of Charleston?- Latest: shadow force
-
-
-