Not Recruiting HS Players

[real2it]

So Coach Pitino was asked about replacing some of his players at St. Johns for next season, and he said they are not recruiting the HS ranks. You can't find an HS kid who is ready to come in and replace (insert player's name). So this got me thinking because most people can recognize CRP as one of the best of all time, and even here, there have been questions about CPK's ability to recruit the HS ranks. I think if an HS player is not able to contribute immediately, meaning be in the rotation, then the investment is better spent on a proven commodity. I think about the fanstake and what Ament is commanding, and I am just not sure that you can't find a transfer that is physically ready, mentally ready, and as talented to give you what he will be able to give you in year 1. The transfer portal has changed the game and I think as fans we need to start to shift our focus and mentality as well. Recruiting is now a big MONEY business and your investments are probably going to yield more return on individuals who have proven themselves.

 

[cardrock]

Rick said one of the primary reasons he was not recruiting the high school ranks next year was because it was not fair to a HS kid, because he couldn’t guarantee them how long he would be there to coach them. Just saying.
I agree that you get better value with the portal. But what are the questions about PK and high school recruiting? Not saying there are not any but I haven’t heard of any. He has one HS guy this year and he is totally in the rotation, and is better than what his ranking suggested.

 

[shadow force]

I trust CPK and staff on what players they prioritize and want. However, if the NIL money gets to a certain high point, I'd say it would be better used for portal guys that are experienced and proven commodities. Especially if Ament's deal takes up getting 2 portal players for the same price. But like I said, I trust this staff to make the right calls in building a team for next year.

 

[Rollem Cards]

Why recruit a HS kid when he’s going to hit the portal as soon as he the least bit marketable?

Just get a player who’s proven for the year you need him.

It pro ball free agent time.

 

[RedRow]

If the going rate for a Nate Ament level kid is $3 million (not sure if that is the number but have heard that is the ballpark), what could Pat get for that amount of money out of the portal? And will the money still be there for that, or does that money go away if it isn't to be spent acquiring 5* talent guys out of HS? Lots to learn over this off season.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Rick never really was big on freshman playing here anyways. Rick wants you to prove yourself.

 

[Bardman]

I do not think 3M is worth a FR.

 

[cardrock]

If the going rate for a Nate Ament level kid is $3 million (not sure if that is the number but have heard that is the ballpark), what could Pat get for that amount of money out of the portal? And will the money still be there for that, or does that money go away if it isn't to be spent acquiring 5* talent guys out of HS? Lots to learn over this off season.

Nice 1st or 2nd post. Since you have no track record… can you post a link to where you heard that Nate Ament going rate (or ball park rate) is $3 mil? I’m fairly confident that you will not, but I totally look forward to hear your reasoning lol
Prove me wrong and earn your props…

 

[RedRow]

Nice 1st or 2nd post. Since you have no track record… can you post a link to where you heard that Nate Ament going rate (or ball park rate) is $3 mil? I’m fairly confident that you will not, but I totally look forward to hear your reasoning lol
Prove me wrong and earn your props…

Not interested in earning any props or proving anyone wrong, just carrying on the conversation of how best to allocate available money between highly rated high school recruits vs older players from the portal similar to what Coach Kelsey brought in this season. If the 3 million figure is wrong, and the actual number is significantly less, the same question is just as relevant, in my opinion. As to where I heard 3 Million, i did not bookmark the site(s), but I have seen that number and similar ones thrown out in various places online. Accurate? No clue. If you re-read my first sentence, I said "IF 3 million is the going rate" followed by "not sure if that is the number".

 

[cardrock]

Not interested in earning any props or proving anyone wrong, just carrying on the conversation of how best to allocate available money between highly rated high school recruits vs older players from the portal similar to what Coach Kelsey brought in this season. If the 3 million figure is wrong, and the actual number is significantly less, the same question is just as relevant, in my opinion. As to where I heard 3 Million, i did not bookmark the site(s), but I have seen that number and similar ones thrown out in various places online. Accurate? No clue. If you re-read my first sentence, I said "IF 3 million is the going rate" followed by "not sure if that is the number".

gotcha… I ask the question because I feel like I’ve read darn near every internet post regarding Ament… I also had dinner with a very close friend Thursday evening while watching the games, who has dinner with someone in the 502 circle the previous day… and he was just as confused as the rest of us lol. Basicly said his opinion has gone back and forth between us and Duke. That no one really knows for sure. But money was closer to but not quite $2mil And money doesn’t appear to be that much of a determining factor.

 

[sixty3]

Not interested in earning any props or proving anyone wrong, just carrying on the conversation of how best to allocate available money between highly rated high school recruits vs older players from the portal similar to what Coach Kelsey brought in this season. If the 3 million figure is wrong, and the actual number is significantly less, the same question is just as relevant, in my opinion. As to where I heard 3 Million, i did not bookmark the site(s), but I have seen that number and similar ones thrown out in various places online. Accurate? No clue. If you re-read my first sentence, I said "IF 3 million is the going rate" followed by "not sure if that is the number".

Props!

You can have the props, I’d rather the 3M that is the going rate for an unsigned senior in high school.

 

[2330859]

Rick and #2 seeded St J were exposed by Calipari; sorry, but that should tell you all you need to know about where Pitino is in terms of seeing talent. Sure bet that he wished he could have retained Walter Clayton Jr when he transferred out of Iona right under his nose.

 

[CardinalJunky]

If the going rate for a Nate Ament level kid is $3 million (not sure if that is the number but have heard that is the ballpark), what could Pat get for that amount of money out of the portal? And will the money still be there for that, or does that money go away if it isn't to be spent acquiring 5* talent guys out of HS? Lots to learn over this off season.

I would love to get Ament, the “optics” of him signing along with Brown would be a real statement. I get your point though. College experienced players are gonna be less risky in evaluating potential performance. I can’t speak to the amount of $$ being thrown around….I have no clue.
At any rate, I am riding with Kelsey and staff to know exactly what they need to put together.

No anxiety about our recruiting!

 

[Bardman]

Color me shocked if Ament gets to UofL. My guess is he will love all the love ESPN gives Duke and would love to receive all the exposure Flagg has this year.

 

[sixty3]

Color me shocked if Ament gets to UofL. My guess is he will love all the love ESPN gives Duke and would love to receive all the exposure Flagg has this year.

It would be a nice get but I’m not sure I’d be shocked at this point. Doesn’t Duke have Cam Boozer coming in, future top five pick and legacy guy?

I have zero.zero idea if we are gonna get Ament but I won’t be shocked if we do, I think this staff is ready for this era of college basketball.

 

[Villian07]

Id much rather PK have the 3 mil to use in the portal as well.

Theres absolutely HS kids out there that come in an dominate like flagg, but those unicorn recruits dont come around every single year.

 

[Villian07]

Rick and #2 seeded St J were exposed by Calipari; sorry, but that should tell you all you need to know about where Pitino is in terms of seeing talent. Sure bet that he wished he could have retained Walter Clayton Jr when he transferred out of Iona right under his nose.

Yea dang that free will that allowed Clayton to go back to Florida where he’s from instead of staying at Iona. Lmao “transferred under his nose” id bet Pitino told him to transfer out of iona and go get his money.

They had a terrible shooting night, it happens.

 

[Villian07]

No HS recruit is gonna come out and say they are making their decision based on money, whether its true or not. Its just a bad look. To everyone involved, coaches, fans, everyone.

I mean its a bad look in the real world, whats the one thing ur never supposed to ask ur friend/collegues/church patrons? How much money do you make

Like even the kid at BYU gettin 7 mil has never come out and said thats the reason he chose BYU, but we all know he wouldnt be there if the offer was 700k and not 7mil.

So obv the money is gonna be a big factor regardless. No one but Ament and his family knows how much of a factor it will be, no offense to dude u had dinner with, or anyone in the 502 circle.

I just cant imagine any recruit ever coming out and saying im 100% going wherever they will give me the most money regardless. Or even Money is the most important factor in my recruitment. Even if thats 100% the truth, no ones ever gonna come out and say it.

 

[Villian07]

im struggling hard with this quote/multi quote mess. Sorry i meant to quote Cardrock above. Not to call him out but just to give my opinion.

Also a few of us migrated over from tos, like red row and junky. Theyve got thousands of posts over there, so ill vouch for him whether he wants me to or not lol. Not a bunch of trolls coming out the woodworks since uk got beat.

 

[cardrock]

im struggling hard with this quote/multi quote mess. Sorry i meant to quote Cardrock above. Not to call him out but just to give my opinion.

Also a few of us migrated over from tos, like red row and junky. Theyve got thousands of posts over there, so ill vouch for him whether he wants me to or not lol. Not a bunch of trolls coming out the woodworks since uk got beat.

I hear ya bro… your point is completely valid and I don’t disagree with ya. I think my friends main point by saying money was not that big of a factor - at that point in time - was that the money was about the same amounts being offered by his top choices. But apparently that is changing as we speak. So maybe the price tag is moving closer to that $3 mil tag mentioned earlier.
Which I have mixed emotions about lol… but darn it I kinda really want this dude. Knowing that we could probably get more for less in the portal.

 

[CardinalJunky]

im struggling hard with this quote/multi quote mess. Sorry i meant to quote Cardrock above. Not to call him out but just to give my opinion.

Also a few of us migrated over from tos, like red row and junky. Theyve got thousands of posts over there, so ill vouch for him whether he wants me to or not lol. Not a bunch of trolls coming out the woodworks since uk got beat.

Click QUOTE and then REPLY if you want to respond to someone or their point directly.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Rick and #2 seeded St J were exposed by Calipari; sorry, but that should tell you all you need to know about where Pitino is in terms of seeing talent. Sure bet that he wished he could have retained Walter Clayton Jr when he transferred out of Iona right under his nose.

I mean is that some sort of dig at Pitino that he ONLY had a 2 seed and won his conference at a school that hasn't been relevant in 25 years and that he identified Walter Clayton's talent while he was a coach at Iona and just didn't have the money to keep him? Like is that trash talk?

 

[2330859]

Yea dang that free will that allowed Clayton to go back to Florida where he’s from instead of staying at Iona. Lmao “transferred under his nose” id bet Pitino told him to transfer out of iona and go get his money.

They had a terrible shooting night, it happens.

Did it occur to you that Rick & the Johnnie’s “bad shooting night” might be a lot more about Calipari’s dominance over Rick? Sorry, but UL fans saw enough of Pitino vs Calipari to know how that would turn out.

As far as my comment about Clayton Jr leaving for home, I was only questioning how Rick could let arguably the best player in this tournament leave NY?

Lastly, do you know what Pitino said to Jr? I didn’t think so.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Did it occur to you that Rick & the Johnnie’s “bad shooting night” might be a lot more about Calipari’s dominance over Rick? Sorry, but UL fans saw enough of Pitino vs Calipari to know how that would turn out.

As far as my comment about Clayton Jr leaving for home, I was only questioning how Rick could let arguably the best player in this tournament leave NY?

Lastly, do you know what Pitino said to Jr? I didn’t think so.

“Whenever he went to St. John’s, I was definitely thinking about that, and honestly, that was really the plan. But I ended up having a change and going home to visit my family,” Clayton told Paul Finebaum. “My daughter, she was due, and that was kind of another decision. I felt like I needed to be closer to home to be with my family and be with my girl. It was a great decision.”

 

[2330859]

Thanks Lefors; your research is incredible!

 

[Villian07]

Click QUOTE and then REPLY if you want to respond to someone or their point directly.

Yea it was the reply part i was having yrouble with lol. Yall know im a bit slow in a few areas of life. Social skills and technology being 1 and 2

 

[Villian07]

Did it occur to you that Rick & the Johnnie’s “bad shooting night” might be a lot more about Calipari’s dominance over Rick? Sorry, but UL fans saw enough of Pitino vs Calipari to know how that would turn out.

As far as my comment about Clayton Jr leaving for home, I was only questioning how Rick could let arguably the best player in this tournament leave NY?

Lastly, do you know what Pitino said to Jr? I didn’t think so.

Again, Walter Clayton has free will. He can choose where he wants to transfer to. Rick cant tie him up and take him with him, or force him to stay at iona.

The kid is from florida and transferred to the university of florida. Not exactly ground breaking stuff here.

And yea cal does own RP. But that had nothing to do with st johns shooting like 2-22 from 3 and 8-27 in the paint. The Arkansas defense did though, they have song long athletic dudes who played well defensively. But st johns also missed open shots they usually make. Aka bad shooting night. I mean how man games in his career has rj luis went 3-17 in. Dude is a scorer, all 3 levels. Just went ice cold.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Again, Walter Clayton has free will. He can choose where he wants to transfer to. Rick cant tie him up and take him with him, or force him to stay at iona.

The kid is from florida and transferred to the university of florida. Not exactly ground breaking stuff here.

And yea cal does own RP. But that had nothing to do with st johns shooting like 2-22 from 3 and 8-27 in the paint. The Arkansas defense did though, they have song long athletic dudes who played well defensively. But st johns also missed open shots they usually make. Aka bad shooting night. I mean how man games in his career has rj luis went 3-17 in. Dude is a scorer, all 3 levels. Just went ice cold.

It happens.

One year you lose to Morehead State after making the Big East title.
The Next year you make a legendary Final Four run.
Then finally you cap it off being the #1 overall seed and national champions the year after that.

One year Coach K, the greatest maybe ever, loses to a 14 seed Mercer
The next year he wins his 5th national championship

That's why you can't just look fully at March for the health of a program or success of a coach. Good teams and talent facing off on neutral courts playing a lot of games in a short time span, anything can happen.

Dean Smith's first 32 years at UNC he only had 1 title on a Michael Jordan buzzer beater. Got his 2nd and final one in year 33.

Bill Self only has 2 titles, but until this year he had like 20+ straight years where his team was a 1,2,3,or 4 seed every single year. Won a record amount of Big 12 titles in a row in a tough Big 12, but some judge him on some one game scenario losses. But when it's all said and done, Bill Self will go down as one the best to ever coach. He's ONLY 62. He averages around 30 wins a year and say he coaches another decade? That's 1,136 wins by age 72 and that's only 66 wins behind Coach K.

 

[2330859]

Again, Walter Clayton has free will. He can choose where he wants to transfer to. Rick cant tie him up and take him with him, or force him to stay at iona.

The kid is from florida and transferred to the university of florida. Not exactly ground breaking stuff here.

And yea cal does own RP. But that had nothing to do with st johns shooting like 2-22 from 3 and 8-27 in the paint. The Arkansas defense did though, they have song long athletic dudes who played well defensively. But st johns also missed open shots they usually make. Aka bad shooting night. I mean how man games in his career has rj luis went 3-17 in. Dude is a scorer, all 3 levels. Just went ice cold.

Shooting is directly affected by defensive strategy; go back and look at UL shooting % in Pitino vs Calipari …..no coincidence when the opposing coach studied your offensive tendencies and executes strategically to force you out of what you do.

Watch Duke dominate Alabama for evidence

 

[Thecycle27]

To really defend at the level Pitino demands it has to take a toll on a shooters legs. It has to be exhausting especially if you don’t have depth. The biggest difference from his UK days then Louisville and now Saint John’s is he had legit depth at UK. He was thin at Louisville other than 2013. Look at all the Final Four teams good defensive teams. Florida is good but not great defensively.

Rick isn’t going to move from his defensive coaching doesn’t matter who the player is, he just moves on.

 

[Villian07]

Shooting is directly affected by defensive strategy; go back and look at UL shooting % in Pitino vs Calipari …..no coincidence when the opposing coach studied your offensive tendencies and executes strategically to force you out of what you do.

Watch Duke dominate Alabama for evidence

You lost me with Calipari studying the opposing coach and tendencies lmao.

And cal vs pitino at uk and U of L is meaningless to me because they had the better, more talented roster every year but like 2 or 3.

I watched the game, st johns missed plenty of open or makeable shots. They missed plenty of close shots at the rim where they were being defended well, but still makeable shots.

It wasnt some extraordinary defensive effort by arkansas. They played well defensively, sure, but st johns missed a lot of shots they normally make. Again how many times in his career did rj luis go 3-17. They have athletic defenders in the big east as well. And im sure their coaches do a helluva lot more studying of opposing teams tendencies and strategy than calipari.

Heck didnt he say one time at UK that they dont even watch much film on opponents? Roll the ball out there and let ur five stars be the best players on the court. Thats cals key to success. When the five stars he has are overrated, his teams suck aka the covid year and the skal team. When they are as good as advertised, Cal looks damn good too aka john wall, AD, KAT

 

[Villian07]

Shooting is directly affected by defensive strategy; go back and look at UL shooting % in Pitino vs Calipari …..no coincidence when the opposing coach studied your offensive tendencies and executes strategically to force you out of what you do.

Watch Duke dominate Alabama for evidence

Why did arky quit playing elite level defense when up 16 vs tex tech in the second half? They didnt, tech had some shots start to fall.

Duke is on a diff level bc they have an anthony davis clone protecting the paint, so the others can gamble and jump passing lanes and go for steals bc if they miss maluach is likely gonna clean it up anyways. Flagg as well but hes not as good defensively as maluach, dude is insane.

 

[2330859]

If I lost you, it’s because you are arguing in the absence of understanding “the what and the why” between the rivalry between Pitino and Calipari.

If you want to argue intelligently, go back and research the historical statistical data between the two.

 

[Villian07]

If I lost you, it’s because you are arguing in the absence of understanding “the what and the why” between the rivalry between Pitino and Calipari.

If you want to argue intelligently, go back and research the historical statistical data between the two.

Ok help me understand why arkansas quit playing elite level defense in the sweet 16 up 15 points in the second half vs Texas Texh?

Since it was all the arkansas defense that made st johns shoot sooooooo poorly, it had to be the same to make texas texh shoot poorly. So Why did they do it for 30 mins vs tex tech and not 40 and lose the game? Since defensive startegy affects the offense so much, did arky switch strategies with 8 mins left up 15 points?

No shots started to fall, texh got some stops. They made a run. It happens. It doesnt mean arky quit trying on defense or werent doing the exact same strategy.

That didnt happen for st johns, the shots werent falling. And sure arky defense deserves some of the credit but not all the credit.

And the what and the why on cal vs rick doesnt mean ish to the players on the court. Tony bennett owned pitino too, and they dont have a four decade rivalry. It was bc of style of play and good teams.

Cal started owning pitino when he met www and started reeling in the number 1 recruit or multiple MCDAAs every year. Not brain surgery level stuff.

 

[Villian07]

Or maybe since Cal doesnt have a rivalry with tex techs coach, the Arky players werent as focused on the offensive tendencies of the tech offense, and prob quit watching the film with like 8 mins left.

And then they didnt know what to do the last 8 mins.

 

[2330859]

Well for starters, Calipari, nor anyone on his staff have a clue as to who Grant McCasland is, or much at all about the Red Raiders, One of John’s weaknesses has been his inability to make adjustments in the 2nd half; which explains a lot of those disappointing performances in the last 4 or 5 years he experienced at UK in the NCAA Tournament.

I will agree with you on one point, specifically about the amazing level of talent that Calipari assembles every where he goes, and I will also acknowledge that Rick & UL seldom were equal in matching up against John in terms of either individual talent and/or depth.

As far as talent winning over coaching, then explain how TT beat Arkansas when the Razorbacks have more talent and depth?

Lastly, in my opinion, Tony Bennett is a better coach than Pitino if all things (talent, depth, etc) being equal.

 

[Villian07]

Well for starters, Calipari, nor anyone on his staff have a clue as to who Grant McCasland is, or much at all about the Red Raiders, One of John’s weaknesses has been his inability to make adjustments in the 2nd half; which explains a lot of those disappointing performances in the last 4 or 5 years he experienced at UK in the NCAA Tournament.

I will agree with you on one point, specifically about the amazing level of talent that Calipari assembles every where he goes, and I will also acknowledge that Rick & UL seldom were equal in matching up against John in terms of either individual talent and/or depth.

As far as talent winning over coaching, then explain how TT beat Arkansas when the Razorbacks have more talent and depth?

Lastly, in my opinion, Tony Bennett is a better coach than Pitino if all things (talent, depth, etc) being equal.

Ill start with the last, its bc calipari isnt a very good coach. Great recruiter, with help and breaking the rules. Average coach. Check his stats before he recruited dujuan wagner and then in turn met www. He was as likely to take memphis to the nit as the ncaaT. Then the five stars start rollin in and all of a sudden hes a HoFer lolol.

I mean heck we saw first hand for two years, his main assistant for 10 outta last 12 years or whatever it is at this point, KP. Howd that work without superior talent?

So im not saying coaching doesnt matter at all, its definitely a mix. You cant win the derby on a donkey regardless how good the jockey is. But the players have to do their prt too. Its not pitinos fault or cals credit that st johns went 8-27 or whatever in the paint. Or 2-22 from 3. It wasnt like either team came out and did a completely diff gameplan and it worked or failed miserably, st johns shots just werent falling. Imo anyways

As far as not knowing mcasland, yea me neither lol but This is 2025 there is tape on every single tex tech game they played this season and north texas for prob at least the last 4-5 years on the internet. Prob even more seeing how we had tape in 2004 in HS football class A on every team we played in bfe western ky. How much john and the great KP and the rest of the staff studied it, no clue.

And the way Bennett dominated us with not much nba talent i really cant say much bad about the dude other than the style was boring af.

Lastly, i just love to argue, i dont take anything personally i dont even remember screen names half the time. So cheers, have a good evening. Sorry for being a smartazz its in my genes unf