Mike James
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James, Ellis, Withers, Hatfield, Curry and Traynor each have sufficient talent to compete at this level; but the combination of having lack of individual coaching and team coaching makes them look pedestrian for most of the time.
Not sure there is any other explanation for this season.
Not sure there is any other explanation for this season.
James was just making shots and hustling. All individual traits. His performance had nothing to do with coaching except that KP did put him in the game..
if that were the case then UK players would have won every single freshman of the week awards for the sec for the last decade. just becasue you have talent doesn't mean you can play in a system, see UK over last decade. you can admit that maybe KP is coaching and james had to be put in the correct situations to earn the award, he's just not out there running around randomly on his own.
My exact observations as well. I mean, some fans just won't admit KP just might be able to coach.
No because he has individual talent, basketball sense, and he was hustling.. He played well in spite of Payne. And if his performance had anything to do with coaching why isn't Lands, Withers, Curry, and wheeler playing like James ?
Because Withers, Curry and Wheeler, as you can see on the court, act like they want to be anywhere but on the court. Which says to me, they have checked out, and are not as open and amendable to KP's coaching.
Please note, I disagree about Lands. Lands has absolutely improved from the beginning of the season.,...Surely, you can at least admit that, right?
What is coaching exactly to you? Obviously it's not results or you wouldn't believe KP is a good coach.
I will admit he can coach when he has coaching success. I just don't know how much proof you need that he's not anywhere near ready to be a major college head coach. His players are not short, unathletic walk ons.
Getting better for anyone on this team is a pretty low bar.. Lands stats are horrible. He can't shoot to save his life. I think he has potential but he isn't nearly there yet.
Your comments on Withers, Wheeler, and Curry fall on the coach. You can't have it both ways. You can't credit Payne for developing James and not criticize him for the failure of these guys.
And speaking of Curry, why is he just a shadow of himself from last year. Why has he regressed under KP ? Is that not on KP ?
KP is frigging terrible..
Your response is sooooo predictable...This is what pisses me off about most of the fans on here, having so much to say about KP and his coaching. The majority of you guys make your argument about his coaching acumen based solely off of wins and losses, which is tangible. Giving no other consideration to anything else, for example...player improvement, team improvement, improved hustle, improved fight once down in a game. And all of ours eyes can clearly see that all of these examples/attibutes have improved since the start of the season. Sooooo yes, I attributed that to KPs coaching, and in my opinion, coaching is made up of both tangible results and intangible attributes.
But unlike most of you guys, I can give credit where credit is due and by doing does not mean I believe KP is the best coach in the world, or doesn't have things to change or improve upon. I mean a lot of you fans are just the pure definition of a "hater," where you will not give any credit due for some good done, but would rather say it's all bad or horrible no matter what the facts are showing you...
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Ok so we disagree on Lands, I think his shooting has actually improved and his confidence too.
Like I've said since the beginning of this season, Withers, Wheeler and Curry are all displaying the same attitudes, attributes and behavior that they have had since being here at UofL. Have they had moments or flashes of what they can be, yes. But you would be lying if you say it's been consistent since being at UofL. Otherwise they would be more dominate.
Therefore, this leads me to believe, based on what I have seen, it's more to do with them than the coaching.
And I say the same thing about James.
This is UofL, a top 7 or 8 program of all time. We don't accept moral victories like we don't rush the court after a big win. Getting better and losing by 10 is nothing to give credit for because we were losing and getting beat by 20...
Improvement that doesn't result in wins doesn't even matter when you're 2-14..
If you want to see what KP would look like with good players tune in to the ky vs South Carolina game right now where a poor SC team (7-8) are kicking the cats 13-2 in Lexington right now.
If you think Payne is doing a good job and we should give him more time this is like the death penalty to our basketball program. During the game all you have to do is look at the coaches on our bench and they all have their heads hanging low. I wonder how many of these players are going to stick around for another year of this.
I know it is hard to believe but this could snowball and get worse. Recruits won’t want to come here and the ones that are already here might transfer out through the portal. We aren’t losing to good teams by a few points we are losing bad teams, weaker programs.
I know it is hard to believe but this could snowball and get worse. Recruits won’t want to come here and the ones that are already here might transfer out through the portal. We aren’t losing to good teams by a few points we are losing bad teams, weaker programs.
More times than not really good teams are player driven not coach driven. Every successful coach will tell you their success is directly tied to players. It always starts with the players. The ceiling on those teams is much higher. 2013 they won because they had dudes that were mentally tough and cocky. Their personality fit their coach.
Really good college and future pro’s absorb coaching. That is a talent. You can tell both James and Ellis are absorbing what is being taught. Curry isn’t. He is out shape. He refuses to play defense. That is all on him. Jaylen is more complicated in that the game appears to move too fast for him. Very similar to VJ King. Hatfield is a big that plays below the rim and energy just isn’t where it needs to be.
70% of the wins are player driven. The other 30% is coaching. This year is really tough in the he has no bench to hold players accountable. Hard to sit Curry, Withers or Hatfield.
This team shouldn’t be 2-15 but players have to start doing things to win games. You can’t fall asleep late in games and given up 3’s at key times.
Really good college and future pro’s absorb coaching. That is a talent. You can tell both James and Ellis are absorbing what is being taught. Curry isn’t. He is out shape. He refuses to play defense. That is all on him. Jaylen is more complicated in that the game appears to move too fast for him. Very similar to VJ King. Hatfield is a big that plays below the rim and energy just isn’t where it needs to be.
70% of the wins are player driven. The other 30% is coaching. This year is really tough in the he has no bench to hold players accountable. Hard to sit Curry, Withers or Hatfield.
This team shouldn’t be 2-15 but players have to start doing things to win games. You can’t fall asleep late in games and given up 3’s at key times.
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THey do look better, but they are 2-15, likely to finish 2-30, and I can't get past that.
Yep. Looking better while still losing is not exactly the end goal we had in mind.
Can’t escape the losing part of the equation. At the end of the day he is paid to win. I am more patient than most. I want to see a year without any obstacles in getting players.
Getting players is a big question mark, who wants to go on a sinking ship. My biggest fear is we can’t get recruits and then any decent player we have will enter the transfer portal. Would you want to play for a team that had only 2 wins? The pros might think our players aren’t good enough to make at the next level if they can’t win at the college level.
That is what makes the transfer portal brutal for coaches. His performance makes him a good free agent. Team performance really doesn’t matter good or bad season he has a market. Obvious a winning team has a better chance of maintaining but there are no guarantees. The only way for any coach to succeed is keeping and bringing in players like James.
KP is going to have to bring in more talent point blank. We all agree we should have more than 2 wins, but besides El who would be a starter for a solid D1 program right now? Yes, I agree James is playing a lot better. I also have seen some improvement in Lands. Having Pitino as a coach for so long did spoil us in a way. Rick could take less talented kids/teams and get the absolute most out of them. Pitino is the best at doing that imo.
This is going to be a very interesting off season. We are going to get a lot of answers from April - July. We already know where the season is. The questions are about moving forward.
There mere thought of another season with KP makes me ill..
No one knows if KP is a good coach, an average coach, an excellent coach or a terrible coach. How could we? The guy has coached only 17 career games.
All we can do is debate which one of those coaches he may end up being and right now, it's looking like he's a terrible coach. Maybe in three years he wins it all? Then he would be an excellent coach.
For me it's not about hate. I don't hate the man. I just don't think he is the man to put Louisville back to where it belongs. I've seen nothing that would suggest he will. Yes, there's been improvement but when you're at rock bottom, you can't help but improve some.
UofL is in a pickle for sure. It's fair to give KP another year with hopefully more success in recruiting and the portal, but that is a huge risk that could really set the program back even more.
If the Cards start his second season and have a losing record when ACC schedule starts, the pressure of firing him during the season would be hard to ignore.
But financial issues may tie the University's hands while the program falls deeper in a hole. I truly hope he's a good coach and this season was just a fluke, but only time will tell.
Only coached 17. But, he's only won 2 of the 17. That's how we know..
I don't think anybody hates him. It just he's a terrible coach..
We judge people way too fast, doesn’t matter if they were good or bad. One year is a small sample size. Obviously we would have prefer he killed it in his 1st year but one doesn’t make him Coach K.
Obviously this team sucks. I think the team lacks talent and KP wasn’t the coach get the most out of their talent. That doesn’t mean KP can’t coach. It only means he couldn’t coach this group. The next group it may be different.
The next group is his group. He and his staff have had time to evaluate the market place. It is their job to build a roster that play his game. As a staff they can either do that or they can’t. We will have a good idea by the summer if they are heading in the right direction.
Obviously this team sucks. I think the team lacks talent and KP wasn’t the coach get the most out of their talent. That doesn’t mean KP can’t coach. It only means he couldn’t coach this group. The next group it may be different.
The next group is his group. He and his staff have had time to evaluate the market place. It is their job to build a roster that play his game. As a staff they can either do that or they can’t. We will have a good idea by the summer if they are heading in the right direction.
Just curious and I'm not knocking on you (yet) but are you just a casual fan or do you religiously follow the team, go to games,season ticket holder ? Only watch on TV? Just occasionally watch on TV ?
Played at baseball at Louisville. As you can tell I am more of it is on the players to absorb coaching than the other way around.
Nightmare scenario is everyone transfers out, and no one transfers in and no recruiting class coming in. Then what?
That scenario would make it all walk-ons.
I don't have a prediction but I don't think it hits that level, but could be wrong.
He's already got two 4* guys signed right?
This scenario is what all the "he needs another year" crowd don't get. There's no guarantee the best guys come back. These guys body language doesn't tell me they love KP they may be counting the days til when they can leave..
I am old 85-90. Back when basketball funded everything. Good times….not many wins.
