Mangok is now the key to this team. Many games last year we lacked toughness. He is the one guy, especially in the front court that can provide this. I've heard that there are still some lingering concerns about his foot. Hope that all works out because the team is dependent on him.
Mangok
- Thread starter Knucklehank1
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Mathiang may be one of the keys, in a limited role. It seems highly unlikely that any C will be playing 30 + MPG since we have three capable bodies to start the season @ the position, and none of the three would be considered dependable healthy types.
But yes, in a fluid role there will be times when Mathiang will be very important. Match-ups always dictate rotations.
Adel will be a very tough wing defender that will lock up a lot of talented opponents. Mitchell also brings some serious toughness to the table. So we have those two in the fold for 25 - 35 MPG to provide toughness for sure. I get it, you're concerned about the interior mostly.
I don't know if the lack of toughness was the biggest problem for last year's team. I think a lack of post season eligibility was the biggest problem.
We don't know what they would have done when it mattered the most because they were ineligible for the post season.
We have guys that can block shots inside. The biggest question for me is rebounding, which I suppose you could make a case that rebounding is about toughness.
It's not that I disagree with you, but I'm not putting our success stock into the 7th best player on the team. If nobody else wants to toughen up it doesn't matter if Mathiang is Rocky Balboa. The entire team has to play tough.
But yes, in a fluid role there will be times when Mathiang will be very important. Match-ups always dictate rotations.
Adel will be a very tough wing defender that will lock up a lot of talented opponents. Mitchell also brings some serious toughness to the table. So we have those two in the fold for 25 - 35 MPG to provide toughness for sure. I get it, you're concerned about the interior mostly.
I don't know if the lack of toughness was the biggest problem for last year's team. I think a lack of post season eligibility was the biggest problem.
We don't know what they would have done when it mattered the most because they were ineligible for the post season.
We have guys that can block shots inside. The biggest question for me is rebounding, which I suppose you could make a case that rebounding is about toughness.
It's not that I disagree with you, but I'm not putting our success stock into the 7th best player on the team. If nobody else wants to toughen up it doesn't matter if Mathiang is Rocky Balboa. The entire team has to play tough.
If we have to rely on Anas or Matz in physical games we will get bullied, like we did twice against UVA last year.
I think you guys were right there hopgood - you can throw out all the results that happened after the ban was announced because that definitely took an emotional toll on the staff and players. You guys were a top 10 team all year IMO. I LOVED Lee as a player but I think the emergence of Adel and Mitchell will make you forget about the graduate transfers pretty early in the season (I don't mean forget them in a derogatory way, just from a contribution standpoint.)
I'm not looking forward to playing you guys this year - all the factors to beat us will be there - game is at Yum, UK has very little returning, etc. Plus I think the class is overrated. UK won't have any players as good as either Murray or Ulis this year IMO. Just hoping for a good game.
The team could not score in either of those UVA games, that's not an area Mathiang is going to carry us anyway. The outcome of games like that are team efforts, or lack thereof. If our guards get pushed around, and we miss dunks, it does not matter if Mathiang is out there playing enforcer.
Stockman played 4 min in the first game vs UVA. Mahmoud didn't play in the second game vs UVA. We weren't relying on them in those games. The entire team let themselves and the staff down both games. The first beat down was stunning and a total team meltdown. The second beat down was a game mailed in that meant nothing.
But I'm with you I hope Mathiang plays tough guy and we go undefeated and don't get bullied. I am on board.
Mahmoud is a 4.I don't know if CP plays him at the 4,but his best chance next level is at the forward spot.Somebody will get less minutes in this rotation of Mango,Mahmoud,Stockman,Spalding and Johnson.Jmo,but I hope Pitino uses Mahmoud with those other 2 centers,rather than instead of.
Anas was looking good before he got hurt at the end last year. He needs to keep playing with aggression.
I share Ipartiedwithhopgood's concern about where the scoring is going to come from in close tough games. We have a lot of guys that will contribute. A the 4/5 you have Mongok, Anas, Jaylen, Ray and Matz, VJ and Deng at the 3, Donavon, Quentin and Tony Mitchell(I think that's the name of the Penn Transfer) in the back court. We will get a lot of points in the paint and off the offensive boards. But who is going to knock down the big shots for us?
I know RP loves Deng's potential. But he looks a little mechanical on offense to me. Not sure he will be the guy you look to at crunch time. Snyder has trouble creating his own shot because of his lack of quickness and athleticism. Of the returning guys Donavon seems to be the most likely to be able to take that step forward and be that guy. The wild cards are Tony Mitchell and VJ King(who you may see some at the 3).
Having said that I think we will be a very good basketball team. To reach the Final 4 we have to have a couple of guys we can count on for the big baskets late in games.
I know RP loves Deng's potential. But he looks a little mechanical on offense to me. Not sure he will be the guy you look to at crunch time. Snyder has trouble creating his own shot because of his lack of quickness and athleticism. Of the returning guys Donavon seems to be the most likely to be able to take that step forward and be that guy. The wild cards are Tony Mitchell and VJ King(who you may see some at the 3).
Having said that I think we will be a very good basketball team. To reach the Final 4 we have to have a couple of guys we can count on for the big baskets late in games.
My concern (without Onuaku) is interior scoring. I think we will be tremendous defensively on the inside, but I don't see a consistent inside scoring threat. That is where Mahmoud, Mangok, and Stockman have all had issues...inside positioning, catching interior passes, and making a strong post move. Hopefully they have all improved their post up positioning and moves.
The thing with stockman is that every time he got the ball down low he put up a shot. Now that's not really a bad thing because at 7-2 there's not many that can block or alter his shot. He needs to learn positioning and repositioning, which I don't think onuaku was very good at. He can be a force inside but he also needs to look to pass too. I'm hoping that Padgett will help in this part of his game.
Thanks Knuckle. I typed this thread at work and was in too much of a hurry to research it.
Hank if you take a step back, there aren't a large # of elite physical teams in the country. Officiating has cracked down on a lot of the bump and grind play too.
The National perception is that UofL is actually one of the more physical teams in the country.
You can count teams on one hand that play bully ball at a high level. UVA being the only stand out.
The ACC is a finesse league, we are the 2nd most physical team in the league. There could be a few middling or lower level teams on the schedule that have to resort to bully ball, but more than likely those teams won't be good enough to beat Louisville anyway.
Nearly all games are match up driven, and most certainly Mathiang could be a big part of the team. I'm personally just more concerned with offensive efficiency, which has tailed off the last few years, as opposed to "toughness" - we've had a T 10 defense for years. Defense will be there at the end of the day, it's the offense that's a question mark.
The National perception is that UofL is actually one of the more physical teams in the country.
You can count teams on one hand that play bully ball at a high level. UVA being the only stand out.
The ACC is a finesse league, we are the 2nd most physical team in the league. There could be a few middling or lower level teams on the schedule that have to resort to bully ball, but more than likely those teams won't be good enough to beat Louisville anyway.
Nearly all games are match up driven, and most certainly Mathiang could be a big part of the team. I'm personally just more concerned with offensive efficiency, which has tailed off the last few years, as opposed to "toughness" - we've had a T 10 defense for years. Defense will be there at the end of the day, it's the offense that's a question mark.
I'm hopeful Mango comes back new and improved but I'm not holding my breath. I've just never been a huge fan of his game. I would rather we give the minutes to Anas, Spalding and Matz.
Agree that offensive efficiency is always a cause for concern. My point with Mangok is that in terms of toughness, rebounding, directing the defense, there is a huge drop off between him and the guys behind him. We have proven that we can win while suffering through scoring droughts. But we've had some bad losses when we got out physicalled - Clemson, UVA, UK.
Hank I agree w/ your position, I guess I'm just not quite ready to place as much meaning into Mathiang's contributions and/or role. I've always been a fan of his, I've felt for years he's been under appreciated and unfairly compared to Dieng.
If he gives what he's capable, it's going to help the team a whole lot.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Mahmoud or Stockman. It is true, burly 6-8 PFs can shove those guys around, certainly Mahmoud- like I said, there are some match ups that are going to expose certain players on the team. There just aren't that many teams that can do what UVA does. If half our schedule was comprised of tough guy throwback Big East teams I'd be a little concerned. But that's not what this era's basketball landscape is all about. The rules and style of play is much less rugged than it's ever been.
Stockman showed me something last year. He's got some touch around the basket, and after getting his first round of action, it's quite possible he returns a much improved player this year too.
If he gives what he's capable, it's going to help the team a whole lot.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Mahmoud or Stockman. It is true, burly 6-8 PFs can shove those guys around, certainly Mahmoud- like I said, there are some match ups that are going to expose certain players on the team. There just aren't that many teams that can do what UVA does. If half our schedule was comprised of tough guy throwback Big East teams I'd be a little concerned. But that's not what this era's basketball landscape is all about. The rules and style of play is much less rugged than it's ever been.
Stockman showed me something last year. He's got some touch around the basket, and after getting his first round of action, it's quite possible he returns a much improved player this year too.
Anas showed some very good offensive moves last year until injury. Mangok will hold it down defensively. Just Nanu brings the best of both to the table. We will be fine either way.
Before Mathiang got injured he was a much improved offensive player. I know it was the non conference schedule but he was averaging 7 ppg up from like 2 the year before. Including scoring 17 vs St Louis. I really believe he was going to average arnd 7 & 5 for the year. If he continues to improve I don't think its a stretch to get say 8 ppg and 7-8 rebounds from Mathiang nxt year.
Playing against shorter teams like St. Louis, Mangok is unfair, lol. My dream scenario - well, aside from Nanu coming back, lol - would have Matz logging major time at the 5. He is a man mountain in there and he definitely has offensive power. His game is hardly finished, of course, but I can't imagine, either, any team with as many players who can challenge the guy in practice.
2 other things - with the addition of Hicks, we may very well be able to press again, and press effectively. It may depend on his speed and defensive licks. But having JJ and Deng as middle players with speed and good hoops instincts, is huge. Having Matz or Anas protecting the rim in another plus.
#2 - Don't sleep on JJ. This kid may be our best player.
2 other things - with the addition of Hicks, we may very well be able to press again, and press effectively. It may depend on his speed and defensive licks. But having JJ and Deng as middle players with speed and good hoops instincts, is huge. Having Matz or Anas protecting the rim in another plus.
#2 - Don't sleep on JJ. This kid may be our best player.
If Jaylen Johnson is our best player, then we are in bad shape. He is a capable role player.
JJ is a dow jones kind of guy. Some games he's filling up the stat sheet. Other games you wouldn't even know he played if he didn't chuck a bizarre 18 footer or clock an opponent.
The press could be lethal with Hicks/Mitchell/Adel/Ray/Mathiang or Mahmoud.
I'm glad Mangok is coming back. He is poised to go out on a very high note.
The press could be lethal with Hicks/Mitchell/Adel/Ray/Mathiang or Mahmoud.
I'm glad Mangok is coming back. He is poised to go out on a very high note.
RP praised JJ last week. Said he was working as hard as anybody on the team this summer. He is not our best player but he has shown flashes of his potential. Hopefully he really improves his summer. Spalding/Johnson at 4 Mangok/Anas at the 5 is a pretty good rotation.
We're going to have a damn good basketball team this fall. We know what we already have coming back, plus King and Hicks are going to add even more. We're going to be deep and versatile just like most Pitino rosters. He recruits the way he recruits for a reason. It's his philosophy.
I think Ray and Johnson can both score in the interior as 4s.
As for the 5s, Stockman has some post moves. Mathiang improved offensively before getting hurt too. Mahmoud remains the wild card, just don't know what we're going to get from him. He had his moments offensively. He can really pass the ball. They all remain tall and capable of dunking the ball and making layups.
Onuaku only produced 10 ppg. In expanded roles, the 3 headed monster we'll have next year I think scores enough. My question is rebounding.
UofL is flying under the radar but I think the team will be pretty good like it always is.
After Onuaku's freshman season I posted on here that I hoped that either he or one of the other centers could develop some kind of post game- a go to move in a pinch at least. Nanu did just that and became an important piece of the team last season. We saw how it could help when the center was actually some sort of threat to score. The other teams couldn't simply play 5 on 4 on defense like they could against, say, VanTreese.
It's also another way to open up shooters when they can pass it into the middle and the pass comes back out. I just hope that Mangok, Anas, and Matz can provide SOME kind of scoring threat inside this season. Of course I know their main concern on the team will be rebounding, rim defense, and general hustle but it's much better to have a C that can score on occasion than not. I'm not sure what type of shape Mangok will be in next season but before he went down he had shown- albeit against some lesser teams- that he had improved his scoring ability.
It's also another way to open up shooters when they can pass it into the middle and the pass comes back out. I just hope that Mangok, Anas, and Matz can provide SOME kind of scoring threat inside this season. Of course I know their main concern on the team will be rebounding, rim defense, and general hustle but it's much better to have a C that can score on occasion than not. I'm not sure what type of shape Mangok will be in next season but before he went down he had shown- albeit against some lesser teams- that he had improved his scoring ability.
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