Is This Team "Improving"?
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shhhhhh! but we just played two top 20 teams tight the entire game and simply lack of talent and depth could not be overcome.
They have definitely improved but it just doesn't matter. Louisville is losing so much it's becoming a new normal. Whether it's a blowout or a tight game, the results are the same.
Remember, the Cards last game of last year was a one point loss to Virginia. Losing is what's expected now, even with the obvious improvement of this team.
It's all about next season. I truly believe if Louisville basketball wants to avoid the blue blood fall that IU and Georgetown are in, they have to turn it around in 2024. Otherwise, losing will be accepted as unavoidable.
Louisville is 3 and 23. If they won their next 20 games in a roll, it would mean the Cards are a .500 team through 46 games; but we know that's not going to happen.
That hump is pretty big but it will become a mountain if this losing doesn't stop very soon. A 3 point loss to a top 10 Virginia team is just more of the same.
But maybe the celebration of the 2013 team this Saturday starts the turnaround with a win against Clemson?
If only.
Remember, the Cards last game of last year was a one point loss to Virginia. Losing is what's expected now, even with the obvious improvement of this team.
It's all about next season. I truly believe if Louisville basketball wants to avoid the blue blood fall that IU and Georgetown are in, they have to turn it around in 2024. Otherwise, losing will be accepted as unavoidable.
Louisville is 3 and 23. If they won their next 20 games in a roll, it would mean the Cards are a .500 team through 46 games; but we know that's not going to happen.
That hump is pretty big but it will become a mountain if this losing doesn't stop very soon. A 3 point loss to a top 10 Virginia team is just more of the same.
But maybe the celebration of the 2013 team this Saturday starts the turnaround with a win against Clemson?
If only.
Interesting that the two ranked teams we played close happen to play completely different styles of bball. Keep moving forward
Absolutely improving. Over the last month or so the games are no longer unwatchable. They still have long stretches where they can't score which is their downfall.
The coaching errors have atrocious at times but all three come from highly respected coaching trees, KP - Crum + Wooden, Manning - Larry Brown + Dean Smith and Landon with Coach K + Knight. I kept asking myself if these guys paid attention to anything their coaches told them?
I've come to the conclusion that KP and staff are more interested in the future than the present. Re-establish the culture first and go from there. I hope I m right.
trust the process. does anyone listen to the post game shows, if not i think you'd get a different opinion on the coaching, this is what KP always talks about. build it first. he talked about how tonight he did not play omekafor because he thought he'd get crushed by UVA's style and players. and that why can't curry bring that all the time and not just infrequently? or the guys are afraid to shoot sometimes as they are afraid fo the failure again. that traynor is getting better and better but he has to want it more. they are obviously learning.
we looked like a team today. i am starting to see teams look flustered. so there is something here.
It is weird watching games this season. KP honestly is refreshing but maybe too honest for fans. Really good players appreciate really honest assessment of their games. Fans think he is throwing the players under the bus. He is just telling you what he sees. He does give everyone really good information.
What we are seeing is players, even at this point, are still engaged, but still aren’t good enough to make plays or stop making awful mistakes late in the game.
The KP hire was a 5-6 year plan. Now it is up to him to execute the plan. I think this year was an implementation year. It was never about wins and losses. Failure is a crazy, extremely successful people all have failed at some point along their journey. It is part of the learning process. Year 1 in many ways was a failure but in the failure maybe the players and coaches learned valuable lessons that will show in Year 2. Lesson 1 play hard and you at at least give yourself a chance.
What we are seeing is players, even at this point, are still engaged, but still aren’t good enough to make plays or stop making awful mistakes late in the game.
The KP hire was a 5-6 year plan. Now it is up to him to execute the plan. I think this year was an implementation year. It was never about wins and losses. Failure is a crazy, extremely successful people all have failed at some point along their journey. It is part of the learning process. Year 1 in many ways was a failure but in the failure maybe the players and coaches learned valuable lessons that will show in Year 2. Lesson 1 play hard and you at at least give yourself a chance.
These are the questions that fans of losing programs ask - desperately trying to latch onto any positive in the absence of wins. I imagine were you to peruse the message board for Georgetown, you’d find similar threads.
The notion that UofL is a 5-6 year reclamation project is frankly absurd. I simply cannot believe that there are fans that buy into that line of BS. There are plenty of coaches out there that could have played .500 (or very near) ball this season with this roster.
None of their names are Payne though. Saying that you need multiple years to build a culture, is simply an excuse for not being a good coach.
The notion that UofL is a 5-6 year reclamation project is frankly absurd. I simply cannot believe that there are fans that buy into that line of BS. There are plenty of coaches out there that could have played .500 (or very near) ball this season with this roster.
None of their names are Payne though. Saying that you need multiple years to build a culture, is simply an excuse for not being a good coach.
Hard to analyze a season like this in this way. Opponents aren't motivated to play Louisville.
We will get some answers to some of our bigger picture questions when the portal opens and we find out who stays, who goes, and who joins.
We will get some answers to some of our bigger picture questions when the portal opens and we find out who stays, who goes, and who joins.
You do realize he has a contract that is for 6 years. I know it is crazy that he would have a 6 year plan. I think it is stupid to expect any coach to come in here after 5 years of straight decline and fix it in year 1.
Everyone kept pointing to the LSU coach. Hell even throw in the Oklahoma coach. The LSU coach is 12-14 and 1-12 in SEC. Same conference record as KP. He has 2 players committed for 2023 that are ranked lower than Louisville’s class. Oklahoma’s coach is 3-10 in conference play and even had a good coaching background. Forget KP was ever hired are we excited about either guy. Nope but hey they are .500 with no better recruits.
This wasn’t a quick fix. I don’t care who came in here we wouldn’t be feeling great heading into 2023.
I don’t get why you and others refuse to acknowledge this was a mess and it may take time to get it right. Louisville can’t sign 6 years deals and keep firing coaches. If Louisville was loaded with cash and a clear can’t lose option was available then yeah move on. They don’t have the money and there is no clear choice. It has to play out.
Everyone kept pointing to the LSU coach. Hell even throw in the Oklahoma coach. The LSU coach is 12-14 and 1-12 in SEC. Same conference record as KP. He has 2 players committed for 2023 that are ranked lower than Louisville’s class. Oklahoma’s coach is 3-10 in conference play and even had a good coaching background. Forget KP was ever hired are we excited about either guy. Nope but hey they are .500 with no better recruits.
This wasn’t a quick fix. I don’t care who came in here we wouldn’t be feeling great heading into 2023.
I don’t get why you and others refuse to acknowledge this was a mess and it may take time to get it right. Louisville can’t sign 6 years deals and keep firing coaches. If Louisville was loaded with cash and a clear can’t lose option was available then yeah move on. They don’t have the money and there is no clear choice. It has to play out.
What's happening now is what many fans were afraid of. The bar it appears has been officially lowered. I get it.... As previously stated, when you're 3-23 in a season like this one, fans try to latch onto any semblance of positivity or improvement.
I posted this in another thread partially joking but trying to make this point:
Kind of genius what KP did here when you think about it from his perspective.
22-23: 3-29 (The culture year)
23-24: 11-21 (?)
24-25: 15-17
26-27: ?
I think you have to be careful drawing too many conclusions from these 2 games. In my opinion, if anything these last several games (especially Miami and UVA), have shown there is some talent on this team and that they should be nowhere near 3-23. No way this team should be 3-23. Any arguments around wins don't matter this season, etc... is just silly to me.
All that said, they got hot against Miami, but played very little defense (allowed 93 points - reminded me of the WKU game). Last night, they played much better on defense, but still had some lapses, but overall played a solid game. I was surprised by how well they handled UVA's offense overall and was impressed with how well they moved the ball. Credit to El Ellis. He made some tough shots and just played ball. Several guys made some big shots. They cut down on their turnovers over the last few games, moved the ball well and made some shots.
I think you can call out that they played well, but to say they have now arrived and figured it out. I'll wait.
I posted this in another thread partially joking but trying to make this point:
Kind of genius what KP did here when you think about it from his perspective.
22-23: 3-29 (The culture year)
23-24: 11-21 (?)
24-25: 15-17
26-27: ?
I think you have to be careful drawing too many conclusions from these 2 games. In my opinion, if anything these last several games (especially Miami and UVA), have shown there is some talent on this team and that they should be nowhere near 3-23. No way this team should be 3-23. Any arguments around wins don't matter this season, etc... is just silly to me.
All that said, they got hot against Miami, but played very little defense (allowed 93 points - reminded me of the WKU game). Last night, they played much better on defense, but still had some lapses, but overall played a solid game. I was surprised by how well they handled UVA's offense overall and was impressed with how well they moved the ball. Credit to El Ellis. He made some tough shots and just played ball. Several guys made some big shots. They cut down on their turnovers over the last few games, moved the ball well and made some shots.
I think you can call out that they played well, but to say they have now arrived and figured it out. I'll wait.
The flip side of the money argument is that the athletic department cannot sustain the Yum center being 1/3 full (or worse) for another year, let alone 6 years. Putting a good product on the floor puts paying customers in the seats.
Does anyone believe season ticket sales are going to be better next year than this year?
Does anyone believe season ticket sales are going to be better next year than this year?
This is a good point and will be overlooked. How motivated and "up" are opposing teams for playing Louisville right now? One of the announcers made a comment about UVA coming off of a big game against Duke and how flat they looked to start the game. Cards were highly motivated for this game. I think it's fair to call all this out and still acknowledge the Cards played a solid game last night.
This ^^^^. UofL charges top dollar for season tix. And once you lose a season ticket holder it is very difficult to bring them back. Any talk of this being some 5-6 plan is delusional. I’m really curious to see if Heird has any tricks up his sleeve to try and retain season ticket holders like myself. I’m not going to pay for a third consecutive year of miserable basketball.
I agree that the games are "more" watchable than before, but honestly how many are just waiting for that moment where they collapse or the other team "booms" us like we used to do. How hard is it for opposing teams to play us? Hell, they don't know what to expect. Are the Cards going to fold at some point? I think most teams would say yes. The team is 3-23. How can you npt think that.
Now are some individiuals getting more confidence. Yes, Lands, James, JJ to a point because they're logging more minutes. As far as determining whether the team is improving, I don't think you can really gauge from one game to another. It has to be next year compared to what we have now. Do we know what this team will look like next year? Hell no but most assume it can't be worse or can it? I'll hold judgement. The end of this year's story has already been written in my opinion.
Now are some individiuals getting more confidence. Yes, Lands, James, JJ to a point because they're logging more minutes. As far as determining whether the team is improving, I don't think you can really gauge from one game to another. It has to be next year compared to what we have now. Do we know what this team will look like next year? Hell no but most assume it can't be worse or can it? I'll hold judgement. The end of this year's story has already been written in my opinion.
Fast forward to 2024 when UofL is 6 -20 at the same point in time.
Gotta keep the mediocrity going.
By 2028 the Cards will make finally make the NCAAT. Pat yourselves on the back Payneful supporters.
Gotta keep the mediocrity going.
By 2028 the Cards will make finally make the NCAAT. Pat yourselves on the back Payneful supporters.
Any organization has to have a short and long term plan. They have to take everything into consideration. It doesn’t mean you blindly stick to the plan or abandon it. Each year brings on more data.
My point is the program was impacted way more than what people want to believe and abandoning ship given all the factors is premature.
Let’s see how the rest of the year goes and what they do in the offseason. Things can change quickly. Safe to assume a Georgetown like 2nd year won’t be good. If that happens I agree finances may force a change.
Maybe they've already got a plan to supplement football $ to absorb the loss. I have no clue no financial guy.
Zipp where are you? What are your thoughts on the $ again, without graphs and fancy talk.
Break it down for us minions!
Zero chance he gets year 3 unless 2023-24 makes a significant leap forward. Tourney team or we got the wrong guy,
KP even said lastnight post game that he thought Virginia overlooked us and that he likes that other teams overlook us because it gives us a better chance to win..
WTF... This is Louisville basketball. We don't have to hope teams overlook us so we have a chance to win.. What a loser mentality.
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I was under the impression that KP could do three things:
1) Recruit with the best of them
2) was a big man whisperer
3) connected and resonated with the players
On all the three, there are failing grades so far. This off-season will really tell the tale on #1. As for #2, have seen no growth with our bigs - maybe Okorafor with change this . And given the lack of consistent effort and KP saying they don’t follow through on what he teaches it’s hard to see where he has succeeded on #3.
1) This is again ignoring the state of the program. The NCAA cloud impacted 2022 and 2023 high school class. We can argue the transfer portal misses, none of us know. This spring and summer give us more data.
2) Fair point I would argue even really good bigs are slower in their development. Hard to argue Curry hasn’t regressed.
3) This is tied to 1 we will know more in the spring and fall.
While I may not agree with with your points they are legit concerns. My main issue is after 1 year many project that all are guaranteed to be true in Year 2. You don’t know.
The AD has to stand by the contract until it is clear KP can’t handle the job or until the finances of the business force the change. Year 2 both could happen but at this point it isn’t guaranteed to happen.
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Narratives created by people on Twitter or local radio shows or Kenny's friends/supporters always sounded to me like enthusiasm and hype. They were excited for him and excited about the hire for themselves.
When a 5* guy or two that used to play for KP says he helped them become better it should also probably be taken with a grain of salt. It's like at the Academy Awards when winners thank everyone that helped them get to where they are today. Nice!
So lesson should be learned here. Avoid falling for hype and narratives.
A lot of people take those narratives and run with them ready to pounce when none of that appears to be a thing. Who made those promises? Exactly.
When a 5* guy or two that used to play for KP says he helped them become better it should also probably be taken with a grain of salt. It's like at the Academy Awards when winners thank everyone that helped them get to where they are today. Nice!
So lesson should be learned here. Avoid falling for hype and narratives.
A lot of people take those narratives and run with them ready to pounce when none of that appears to be a thing. Who made those promises? Exactly.
It's abundantly clear now to anyone that knows anything about basketball he can't handle the job.
The Yum center will be a ghost town next year. A lot of people bought tickets this season thinking things would be better. That's not happening next year.
After the boat sinks it's to late to fix the hole in it.. The boat is sinking fast..
Payneful supporters are willing to die on that hill.
He never wanted the job.
He knew he couldnt coach.
Proof is in the pudding.
He's just doing his alma mater a solid instead. Pathetic.
6-20 ain't mediocrity
You listen to Maybin yesterday 😳😳😳🤣🤣
Im not going to say UofL fans would be happy with what those respective coaches have done at those two schools, especially the conference records, but Oklahoma is still 13-13 and LSU has still won 12 games.
To me, that still shows some promise. It gives fans at least a glimmer of hope for the future. But when you're 3-23, it's not a bad season, it's horrendous. It's a disaster. Unprecedented. With record numbers of 20 point blowout losses.
Not only is this the worst UofL team ever, it's one of the worst D1 teams of All Time. You have to go back to the 1940s to even compare how bad this season has been.
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I disagree the boat has been taking on water for 5-6 freaking years. It is abundantly clear is was and is a mess. Ignore the college landscape has completely changed in the last year. Ignore this core group players have had 3 coaches and none of them motivated them. Ignore the NCAA had an impact. Ignore he has an 6 contract and Louisville doesn’t have the money to buy him out. Ignore those facts fire the coach.
The standard has been set the next coach has to make the NCAA tournament next year. Remember winning is easy in college basketball. If the next guy doesn’t meet that standard let’s fire him to.
I am not a KP supporter I am a realist. This year wasn’t going to make anyone happy.
Wrong on so many frigging levels. The year we self imposed a post season ban we would've most likely been a 2 seed. Mack had us ranked number one in the country 3 years ago. Last year we started the season 10-4 and won the Bahamas tournament.
With the portal and NIL success is a year to year proposition...Blaming anyone for this year's disaster except Kenny Payne is a total joke.
As far as this season was not going to make anyone happy, that's another joke. If he had went 500 with some close losses and had a good recruiting class teed up for next year I think most people would have been tickled pink. That's just mild expectations and he's not even in the ball park of those..
Try again..
This morning Heird established that mediocrity doesn’t cut it at UofL. And that the staff will have any and all resources made available to them to succeed. Didn’t sound like a guy willing to muddle along for a few years. Actually was kind of ballsy by Heird to make the comments.
I agree. No one would be happy with those results, but we would be excited about the potential, future outlook and direction of the program. No one expected this to be a quick fix, and no one expected it to be this historically bad. I still contend that this team (current roster) should be nowhere near 3-23 and with this many blowout losses. If we have guys with no talent, Mack missed. He recruited guys with "no talent" and guys that "he could not motivate." If you take all that as true, big miss. No other way to cut it. I'm not buying all that.
The style of play, effort (both coaches and players) and better overall product on the floor would have gone a long way this year with this fanbase. If this team was 12-14 (could potentially be better) and getting after it, night in and night out, fans would not be necessarily happy, but you could live with it. "Hey, we don't have a ton of talent or depth, but these guys are busting it." This is an intelligent basketball fanbase. I can name a laundry list of experienced head coaches that would have a better product on the floor and not allow Curry to look the way he does.
I want to see a game plan that puts this team in a position to compete and get a win over Clemson this weekend. In today's college basketball landscape, you don't need 5 years to get this going in the right direction especially with "no cloud." 3 or 4 of the right guys (does not have to be all 5*s) with the right coach and this is flipped and going in the right direction in one season.
