But we’re going to be really good. Our depth is deeper than we’ve seen here in a long time. No real superstars, but solid players.
I know it’s Kentucky State
- Thread starter rockycard
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Love that we aren't ranked too. Keep this crew humble and hungry!!
Folks are going to be surprised as to just how good this roster is.
Was there. I’m not as optimistic. Our post players got it stuck back in their face plenty of times tonight, against a low level D-II team. They had 8 blocks, not a good sign. Our bigs play small and below the rim. If we don’t shoot the living crap out of the ball from the perimeter we are middle of the road in the ACC. That’s reality. Hope I’m wrong, sadly I don’t think I will be.
My take on the new guys:
West - steady but not spectacular. Not a super athlete and not gonna get you a ton of points. His defense is as advertised, very good.
Locke - fairly steady. I see him never leaving the starting lineup. Not great ball skills, a catch & shoot guy primarily. Went 5-8 at the free throw line which needs to improve. He’s an important piece for this season to be successful.
Faulkner - just blended in. Didn’t stand out, but it’s just one game. Jeff Goodman raved about him after having watched us practice. I’ll take his word on it. Hopefully Faulkner will fight for a starting spot soon, he just didn’t do anything last nice to jump out at me. We’ll see down the road if Goodman’s assessment is correct, I hope so.
Ellis - played only 8 min in the first half but deserves more, much more. I think he’ll be hard to keep out of the starting lineup. If he can match West on the defensive end he is the better option at the point. Puts it on the floor well, gets to the paint and draws the defense for wide open looks on the kick out. I like him, a lot.
Cross - looked shaky, real shaky. Had three turnovers in 13 min. No handle out top, plays small at the rim. Struggles to guard. They say he’s a shooter, let’s hope so.
Curry - I like his upside. As the season goes on I see this kid improving and being very important to this team’s potential & success. If he can average 5 & 4 off the bench that would be huge.
Wheeler - played sparingly. Love his size, he’s physically a legitimate big. Ellis gave him a sweet dump on a drive for a catch and shoot from about 4 feet, he acted like someone had handed him a hot potato. He got rid of it and was promptly yanked. He’s got a long way to go.
My take on the new guys:
West - steady but not spectacular. Not a super athlete and not gonna get you a ton of points. His defense is as advertised, very good.
Locke - fairly steady. I see him never leaving the starting lineup. Not great ball skills, a catch & shoot guy primarily. Went 5-8 at the free throw line which needs to improve. He’s an important piece for this season to be successful.
Faulkner - just blended in. Didn’t stand out, but it’s just one game. Jeff Goodman raved about him after having watched us practice. I’ll take his word on it. Hopefully Faulkner will fight for a starting spot soon, he just didn’t do anything last nice to jump out at me. We’ll see down the road if Goodman’s assessment is correct, I hope so.
Ellis - played only 8 min in the first half but deserves more, much more. I think he’ll be hard to keep out of the starting lineup. If he can match West on the defensive end he is the better option at the point. Puts it on the floor well, gets to the paint and draws the defense for wide open looks on the kick out. I like him, a lot.
Cross - looked shaky, real shaky. Had three turnovers in 13 min. No handle out top, plays small at the rim. Struggles to guard. They say he’s a shooter, let’s hope so.
Curry - I like his upside. As the season goes on I see this kid improving and being very important to this team’s potential & success. If he can average 5 & 4 off the bench that would be huge.
Wheeler - played sparingly. Love his size, he’s physically a legitimate big. Ellis gave him a sweet dump on a drive for a catch and shoot from about 4 feet, he acted like someone had handed him a hot potato. He got rid of it and was promptly yanked. He’s got a long way to go.
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I appreciate your honesty, but you have to be on the deep end of pessimism to feel like that. We are much better than any team Mack has had here, we may have had a few shots blocked but we usually recovered the ball and scored on a good percentage of possessions. Our interior is going to be what separates us from just good teams
Williams
Curry
Withers
I saw some of the KSU blocks, but from what I witnessed they were not on our “post players”. Granted it was a sloppy exhibition against a talent-challenged opponent, but we dominated the boards.
My optimism is not derived from the performance last night; it is based on recognition of just how many individual players we have on this roster who can contribute at all 5 positions. Carlik Jones was indispensable last year, to a point where aside from DJ, there was no other Guard capable of creating any offense. Not sure I can say right now that we have 4 guards who are as good or better than Carlik, but from all indications from those who have watched these kids for several years ……. we have 4 guards capable of playing very close to that same level as Jones.
Locke, West and Ellis compliment each other and a healthy Faulkner at 100% may turn out to be the most versatile of the four.
My optimism is not derived from the performance last night; it is based on recognition of just how many individual players we have on this roster who can contribute at all 5 positions. Carlik Jones was indispensable last year, to a point where aside from DJ, there was no other Guard capable of creating any offense. Not sure I can say right now that we have 4 guards who are as good or better than Carlik, but from all indications from those who have watched these kids for several years ……. we have 4 guards capable of playing very close to that same level as Jones.
Locke, West and Ellis compliment each other and a healthy Faulkner at 100% may turn out to be the most versatile of the four.
My take on the three interior guys you mentioned:
Malik - you may label him an “interior” player but personally I’m convinced Malik himself thinks he’s a perimeter player. I think he’s much better defensively than offensively in the post. I’m glad he returned, but he’s not a first or second team all ACC player. Maybe not even third team.
Curry - I think he’s got a great upside. But he’s coming off the bench. As I stated in my other post if he can give us 5 & 4 it’s a win for us having landed him.
Withers - a very important piece of the puzzle for this season, but like Malik I think he fancies himself a perimeter player. He likes to face up and play vs grinding down low. IMO, he plays very small inside.
You may see the inside game as a positive but I beg to differ. I think our perimeter will carry us and I see our interior play being this team’s weakness.
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Baylor won the championship last season without any real post up player. Gonzaga had that and was ran out of the gym.
The game today doesn't need some star big man to win. Louisville is as deep this season as its ever been and there is still so much that has yet to be determined what each of these players strengths and weaknesses will determine how many minutes they get on the court.
Not being preseason ranked with this roster is ridiculous and just another example of the bias against UofL hoops. If any other top 10 program had this roster they would be ranked.
But I digress. Until there's a couple of years without violations the Cards program is going to be treated this way.
The game today doesn't need some star big man to win. Louisville is as deep this season as its ever been and there is still so much that has yet to be determined what each of these players strengths and weaknesses will determine how many minutes they get on the court.
Not being preseason ranked with this roster is ridiculous and just another example of the bias against UofL hoops. If any other top 10 program had this roster they would be ranked.
But I digress. Until there's a couple of years without violations the Cards program is going to be treated this way.
Sam is $$$$ up to 15 ft, as he was last night. He seemed to have more confidence than he had previously.
Cards have depth at each position.
There's three post players.
Malik is a stretch 5 and a great defender. Curry and Wheeler are typical back to the basket post centers.
There's two forwards that can play the 3 or the 4 in Withers and Traynor. There's three wing forwards who could play at shooting guard in Williamson, Cross and Davis.
There's two point guards with West and Ellis and two shooting guards in Locke and Faulkner.
The question is hoops IQ which the program has had issues with since the 2014 season. Can all these guys play together and for each other? They want to of course but it takes leadership and intelligence that demands the kind of success that is expected with such a deep roster.
Coaching is the other thing that has to be spot on with a rotation of 10 to 11 players. Chris Mack can prove why he was overwhelming the next head coach for the storied Louisville Cardinals program.
There's three post players.
Malik is a stretch 5 and a great defender. Curry and Wheeler are typical back to the basket post centers.
There's two forwards that can play the 3 or the 4 in Withers and Traynor. There's three wing forwards who could play at shooting guard in Williamson, Cross and Davis.
There's two point guards with West and Ellis and two shooting guards in Locke and Faulkner.
The question is hoops IQ which the program has had issues with since the 2014 season. Can all these guys play together and for each other? They want to of course but it takes leadership and intelligence that demands the kind of success that is expected with such a deep roster.
Coaching is the other thing that has to be spot on with a rotation of 10 to 11 players. Chris Mack can prove why he was overwhelming the next head coach for the storied Louisville Cardinals program.
What you’ve seen in the past is what he is. Doesn’t seem a lick different to me. In other words, I see no change in his body physically or his game. It’s frustrating to watch him attack off the dribble, it usually ends in a turnover or him crumbling when encountering contact. He appears to have hit his ceiling.
Unless you lose a game like that or play it close, no reason to be too high or low. These are overmatched teams and we are supposed to blow them out.
I’m not getting sucked into accepting mediocrity as the norm. What was I watching last night? Watching our front court getting their shots swatted (KY State 8 blocks) by a low level D-II team. Other than El Ellis and Dre Davis who else attacked the rim successfully last night? Not Malik, not Withers, not Cross, not Wheeler and definitely not Williamson.
Put any guy on our great teams from the past, any of them get minutes? Hell, Harrell is a 8-12 yr NBA player and he came off the bench in 2013. None of these guys (maybe Withers) would get any clock. Wake up, it’s called reality.
You watched one opening exhibition game against a complete unknown opponent like KSU, and yet you can see the future for this UL team …… that is truly amazing.
UL returns 4 kids who had starting experience, then adds 4 mature transfers with significant D1 game experience, plus arguably one of the nations’s best JUCO transfers, not to mention a freshman BIG with serous potential ……. this team is going to win a lot of ACC games this year, and the offensive balance will be the single greatest contrast from last year.
With respect to Sam Williamson, some may be forgetting just how much his rebounding contributed to last year’s team; he, like the rest of this roster will need some time to figure out how they fit into the rotation. We might play 10 deep all season.
UL returns 4 kids who had starting experience, then adds 4 mature transfers with significant D1 game experience, plus arguably one of the nations’s best JUCO transfers, not to mention a freshman BIG with serous potential ……. this team is going to win a lot of ACC games this year, and the offensive balance will be the single greatest contrast from last year.
With respect to Sam Williamson, some may be forgetting just how much his rebounding contributed to last year’s team; he, like the rest of this roster will need some time to figure out how they fit into the rotation. We might play 10 deep all season.
Generally, teams post season fate comes down to guard play and shooting. Probably need 1-2 bigs that crash glass/defend/get paint points/intangibles.
There's a reason (or reasons?) this team is picked to finish anywhere from 5th-9th in ACC. There's gonna be weakness (s) somewhere.
I can see why fans would be excited but I also see why fans wouldn't be.
There's a reason (or reasons?) this team is picked to finish anywhere from 5th-9th in ACC. There's gonna be weakness (s) somewhere.
I can see why fans would be excited but I also see why fans wouldn't be.
What’s “truly amazing” is that you stated “we have 4 guards capable of playing near Carlik’s level.” That is pure comedy. We don’t have one capable of carrying Carlik’s jock strap.
Just a reminder, Carlik was first team All-ACC last season. So, based on your statement we should expect to land at least one or two of these guys on the All-ACC first team this year? Correct?
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Sounds like we have a bunch of guys who will have a bad game if the jump shots aren't falling. Still don't have a guy who can play the role of intimidator, play above the rim and generally just scare the shit out of people. Haven't had one of those guys in years.
Curry has some interesting JUCO stats.
Ya gotta love seeing the dude shooting 74% and 69%, from the floor. That's hilarious really. Is he just dunking everything? Maybe this dude just gets buckets? No clue. Something to look forward to, if that can translate on a bigger stage?
OTOH, the same guy that can't miss from the floor shot 45% from the FT line both years. So that is a nightmare. That could really limit his minutes, especially once you get to conference play and beyond.
This is a deep team, even after losing a kid to season ending knee injury. It's just a big year for the program, you got the #'s to play a style fans want to see. You can showcase the style to future recruits if it's effective, or even inconsistently effective.
If the Cards are letting the opponent slow walk the ball up the court and do whatever they want like we've seen last few years, the team's depth is inconsequential. If that was the strategy due to a lack of depth then okay, but that shouldn't be the situation this year, right? Gotta play a style that uses your advantages.
Ya gotta love seeing the dude shooting 74% and 69%, from the floor. That's hilarious really. Is he just dunking everything? Maybe this dude just gets buckets? No clue. Something to look forward to, if that can translate on a bigger stage?
OTOH, the same guy that can't miss from the floor shot 45% from the FT line both years. So that is a nightmare. That could really limit his minutes, especially once you get to conference play and beyond.
This is a deep team, even after losing a kid to season ending knee injury. It's just a big year for the program, you got the #'s to play a style fans want to see. You can showcase the style to future recruits if it's effective, or even inconsistently effective.
If the Cards are letting the opponent slow walk the ball up the court and do whatever they want like we've seen last few years, the team's depth is inconsequential. If that was the strategy due to a lack of depth then okay, but that shouldn't be the situation this year, right? Gotta play a style that uses your advantages.
Staple of all Cards teams by every coach . Seem to always do better being the hunter. I never like when we are ranked especially high. At the beginning of the season. Rather they make their moves right before February and conf play.
When the Cards won the title with Siva & Co they were preseason #2 behind IU. But yeah, they have done some damage as underdogs too.
ShortCreek: so where were you at this same time last year projecting that Carlik Jones was going to be 1st team all ACC?
You watched one exhibition game and you already see these 4 transfers as limited in comparison to Jones? It was no coincidence that a Jones led UL team failed to make the NCAA tournament, yet Carlik was able to distinguish himself individually. Last year’s team struggles forced by the necessity in Jones taking such a dominant offensive presence, as the combination of playing so many games without DJ, Sam and Malik from their untimely injuries.
This is not to take anything away from Carlik, as he was most valuable all year …….. but there was no one else capable of handling the ball effectively and creating his own half court offense. DJ struggled handling the basketball and his injuries kept him out of both practices and games that prevented him from helping shoulder (no pun intended) the offensive load.
Let’s wait until mid season before you question these 4 transfers contribution. As for me, I saw some glimpses of the same sort of maturity, skill and/or physicality in West, Faulkner, Locke and Ellis as what Jones exhibited last year.
You watched one exhibition game and you already see these 4 transfers as limited in comparison to Jones? It was no coincidence that a Jones led UL team failed to make the NCAA tournament, yet Carlik was able to distinguish himself individually. Last year’s team struggles forced by the necessity in Jones taking such a dominant offensive presence, as the combination of playing so many games without DJ, Sam and Malik from their untimely injuries.
This is not to take anything away from Carlik, as he was most valuable all year …….. but there was no one else capable of handling the ball effectively and creating his own half court offense. DJ struggled handling the basketball and his injuries kept him out of both practices and games that prevented him from helping shoulder (no pun intended) the offensive load.
Let’s wait until mid season before you question these 4 transfers contribution. As for me, I saw some glimpses of the same sort of maturity, skill and/or physicality in West, Faulkner, Locke and Ellis as what Jones exhibited last year.
I didn't watch the game, but I like everything I am reading except the lack of a guy who can scare people and keep them away from the basket. Mack needs to pick a guy, have him drink a gallon of milk a day and do heavy bench presses, heavy squats, heavy deadlifts, and heavy overhead presses. Just get in there and scare the shit out of anyone who drives the lane, push people around and get rebounds.
Also rolled through the BE and NCAA tourney to the FF and lost hardly nothing off the previous seasons team. That team should have been preseason #1!! In my mind that would be definition of making a team preseason #1.
West, Faulkner, Locke and Ellis all bring their own positives to this team. I particularly like Ellis and find it hard to believe he won’t get 25 min or more a game before it’s all said and done. And I think Ellis will carve out that time earlier than most think. He’s athletic, dynamic, and explosive. Mack is gonna have to live with his turnovers and think long term with Ellis.
With the exception of Faulkner I think I have a pretty good idea how each will help us. I listed my thoughts on each in some detail earlier in another post. Yes, it’s just one game, but if you watch the game closely most players will “show their hand.” I had great seats, watched every second of the game, and I have seen a lot of ball in my day.
Cumulatively they may be more effective and beneficial to our team but none individually are close to Carlik’s overall game IMO.
Where was I last year with Carlik? I have no way to prove it I guess, but I liked his game from the get go. It was pretty obvious early on that he was a baller. I wasn’t surprised a bit when he shredded UK. I also think he should have stayed and felt the same about DJ.
If you read all my previous comments I’m actually more positive in my thoughts about our backcourt than our bigs. I think this team will go as our guards go. IMO we’ll be super reliant on the perimeter game, living or dying with the 3 ball. But, as you’ve said it’s just one game. We’ll see, peace out.
Jones was the #1 rated grad transfer by most evaluators I think? What are the rankings on this yr's crop? Eli was a #1 JUCO is that right?
I got no crystal ball but I think fans want to see more players and a tempo we have lacked. Yeah wins are wanted but need a style to attract players and get as much as you can out of what you have. Due to injuries and maybe philosophy we haven't seen that lately?
I got no crystal ball but I think fans want to see more players and a tempo we have lacked. Yeah wins are wanted but need a style to attract players and get as much as you can out of what you have. Due to injuries and maybe philosophy we haven't seen that lately?
For my 2 cents I walked away from that game feeling pretty good about this teams potential. We could've won that game by 75 points or more had Mack wanted to. Its hard to look good in a game like that. Mack was throwing all kinds of combinations out there. I agree with the poster that said our inside game didn't look to impressive. I've never thought Malik was a strong inside player. He does rebound and play good defense. Curry has potential, I watched him play a lot of games in JUCO he was a man against boys there. It will probably take him a little while to adjust to the size and quickness of D1 players but he'll get there.
I think all the guards showed they can play and shoot. Locke, Ellis, and Faulkner will be able to play against anybody.
Sam ended up with a double double but he has no motor. He doesn't do anything "extra" it almost looks like he doesn't try and sometimes looks like he doesn't care (I'm sure he does, it just doesn't show) seems like we always have one of these guys.
I think we will be Top 10 before the season is over.
I think all the guards showed they can play and shoot. Locke, Ellis, and Faulkner will be able to play against anybody.
Sam ended up with a double double but he has no motor. He doesn't do anything "extra" it almost looks like he doesn't try and sometimes looks like he doesn't care (I'm sure he does, it just doesn't show) seems like we always have one of these guys.
I think we will be Top 10 before the season is over.
I'm excited for this season after reading htis thread. I'm not ready to crown them NCAA Champions but it sounds like Mack did an AMAZING job of bringing in tons of talent in short order. Had he not done this, this roster would have been NIT-bound, at the very best. Hopefully the committee's punishment comes down after this season, and then we put this behind us and get into some years of stability where Mack isn't constantly plugging holes.
Nice response shortcreek; I agree with most every thing you should said. Just so you know, I did not have any insight about how good Carlik was going to be, and my optimism about these 4 newbies is primarily based on what those he played for and against had to say. I look forward to the progression as the season unfolds.
I couldn’t go to the Kentucky State game but did go tonight. Wow…this team is a TEAM. No freaking way they shouldn’t be in top 25.
I go back to Wes Unseld days, and over these last 55 years there have been numerous UL BB teams that provided me with some serious pre-season optimism. The first was the arrival of Jim Price and Henry Bacon, followed by Allen Murphy and Junior Bridgeman upon Denny Crum‘s arrival. This 2021 UL roster is unique to any other one that I can recall, but then this Covid time period in college sports is unlike anyone before it.
CCM‘s decision to make the decision to change his coaching staff and introduce an entirely new offense took a lot of courage, perhaps out of desperation……..nonetheless, it requires personnel to execute. I believe this accumulation of experienced talent provides a level of depth that is unprecedented. Most will look to tradition and project a 7 man rotation for this team, but I am going to step out now and predict something much closer to a 9 - 10 player rotation. That will depend on a lot of factors, but this fast pace offense will require fresh legs and over the course of this season it will need 9 or 10 kids contributing every game.
CCM‘s decision to make the decision to change his coaching staff and introduce an entirely new offense took a lot of courage, perhaps out of desperation……..nonetheless, it requires personnel to execute. I believe this accumulation of experienced talent provides a level of depth that is unprecedented. Most will look to tradition and project a 7 man rotation for this team, but I am going to step out now and predict something much closer to a 9 - 10 player rotation. That will depend on a lot of factors, but this fast pace offense will require fresh legs and over the course of this season it will need 9 or 10 kids contributing every game.
What in the hell was I thinking? We look horrible!
Our talent is average, therefore our team is average. I was there last night, up close and personal. I could rant forever. We have no dawg to take over offensively when the going is tough. We’re a soft team. No toughness.
You are not going to see “the one dog”, like Carlin Jones was last year; which resulted in the team being left out of the NCAA. This team is employing a new offense, blending returners with newbies, and it is way too early to project the team as having average talent.
You have already projected a most pessimistic opinion for a season that has just begun. In contrast, I anticipated a huge learning curve early on, but remain most optimistic as the season progresses and this roster finds its comfort zone. The 19 turnovers against Southern tells a whole lot about the challenges when working 11 kids into a new “hurry up” offense.
You have already projected a most pessimistic opinion for a season that has just begun. In contrast, I anticipated a huge learning curve early on, but remain most optimistic as the season progresses and this roster finds its comfort zone. The 19 turnovers against Southern tells a whole lot about the challenges when working 11 kids into a new “hurry up” offense.
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