We could have kept Pitino and Jurich and nothing would have changed with the NCAA. Years later. Except maybe this basketball team might have a 25-4 record like Iona. Exactly what did all that accomplish except expand Grissoms eco and cost Papa his job.
How stupid were we?
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There were a few of us who discouraged our UL brethren from joining the BoT in their “rush to judgement”, but the misplaced confidence in the integrity of the FBI was sufficient at the time, that most accepted the Report without questioning either the sources or the allegations.
Tom Jurich immediately reached out to Pitino, who assured him it was not accurate, and all that TJ asked of the Board, was for some time to investigate the facts. It was denied, as Grissom and “Papa John” had already convinced Postel and the Board that both TJ and Rick both needed to leave.
The FBI has engaged in some unprecedented activity over these years, but making their Report public was not only uncharacteristic; it was unprofessional. Their investigation should have first been handed over to a Federal Prosecutor, who in turn could have impaneled a Grand Jury. There is still to this day, absolutely no evidence that Pitino was personally engaged, or even aware of payments to Bowen’s family.
Pitino was negligent in managing his staff, something he freely acknowledged, and admittedly it was grounds for disciplinary action. However firing Pitino was not only expensive and unnecessary; it turns out to have destroyed a basketball program that is still not sure of its future.
Tom Jurich immediately reached out to Pitino, who assured him it was not accurate, and all that TJ asked of the Board, was for some time to investigate the facts. It was denied, as Grissom and “Papa John” had already convinced Postel and the Board that both TJ and Rick both needed to leave.
The FBI has engaged in some unprecedented activity over these years, but making their Report public was not only uncharacteristic; it was unprofessional. Their investigation should have first been handed over to a Federal Prosecutor, who in turn could have impaneled a Grand Jury. There is still to this day, absolutely no evidence that Pitino was personally engaged, or even aware of payments to Bowen’s family.
Pitino was negligent in managing his staff, something he freely acknowledged, and admittedly it was grounds for disciplinary action. However firing Pitino was not only expensive and unnecessary; it turns out to have destroyed a basketball program that is still not sure of its future.
Are we really going to rehash this again. Come on, how about the basketball staff not deal with bat shit crazy women who happened to be criminals. Then how about not taking a player that was clearly looking for hand outs while you are on probation. The administration was bad but they knew it and still did things that put them in their crosshairs.
We aren’t stupid the coach and his staff were.
We aren’t stupid the coach and his staff were.
in case anyone forgot, pitino got caught having an affair and we still kept him. got a national title vacated and we still kept him. pitinos coaches got stripper and still we kept him. jurich used all kinds of shady financial dealings to make it look like u of l was profitable but they weren't and nepotism was the name of the game within u of l athletics. under jurich, major scandals happened. under pitino major scandals happened. they were both fired for cause. simple as that. please lets not do the same thing as the republicans with january 6th and just try to rewrite history to favor your failures. pitino and jurich failed our school and had to go. and those who think otherwise are the same people who think january 6th was a peaceful political discussion (that killed six people), probably the same people who think howard was right to punch another coach. again, might is not right, and jurich and pitino single handed led to us national embarrassment. all happened under their watch. jurich was the captain who created the environment for people to cheat and steal. op, get your head our of your ass
Unreal, January 6? Talk about being stupid. None of that has anything to do with what happened at UofL with the men's basketball program. All you have done is show how easily indoctrinated with ignorance and stupidity you are.
Anyone here who brings up Pitino's affair the first year he came here as some kind of forewarning is simply a Pitino hater. That was a personal issue with his marriage and had nothing to do with UofL. His marriage problem preceded his hiring as UofL's coach.
Strippergate was UofL being made an example of by the NCAA. Every Cards fan should know the punishment didn't fit the crime and Pitino would have derailed the championship season had he knew. A player or two may have been suspended or kicked off the team. And the embarrassment of a sexual scandal is something Pitino would not risk.
The FBI sting used Pitino's name as well as UofL's reputation to bolster their claims when informing the public about the shoe company scandals and the top programs. Pitino and UofL were lambs for the slaughter despite still no real evidence either were guilty of anything. Bowen never played and Louisville never gained any advantage with star players like Arizona, Kansas, LSU and Oklahoma State.
In this upside world we live in Pitino was canceled because there was enough power at UofL to do so and we're now seeing the consequences while UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas and others avoided any of that. But Pitino and Jurich had to go. It's ridiculous that true UofL fans would still believe this.
Strippergate was UofL being made an example of by the NCAA. Every Cards fan should know the punishment didn't fit the crime and Pitino would have derailed the championship season had he knew. A player or two may have been suspended or kicked off the team. And the embarrassment of a sexual scandal is something Pitino would not risk.
The FBI sting used Pitino's name as well as UofL's reputation to bolster their claims when informing the public about the shoe company scandals and the top programs. Pitino and UofL were lambs for the slaughter despite still no real evidence either were guilty of anything. Bowen never played and Louisville never gained any advantage with star players like Arizona, Kansas, LSU and Oklahoma State.
In this upside world we live in Pitino was canceled because there was enough power at UofL to do so and we're now seeing the consequences while UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas and others avoided any of that. But Pitino and Jurich had to go. It's ridiculous that true UofL fans would still believe this.
So Kansas, UNC and others are stupid because they chose to keep their people.
I'll take it that you a perfectly content with where we stand because now we're "pure" and "clean".
Just like everybody else in P5 athletics.
Major college athletics is a business
And it's a DIRTY business. If people haven't seen what's been going on for years, and has gotten worse yearly.
Any self righteousness is being naive.
You "compete" or you're just another "filler" opponent.
And it's a DIRTY business. If people haven't seen what's been going on for years, and has gotten worse yearly.
Any self righteousness is being naive.
You "compete" or you're just another "filler" opponent.
UNC and Kansas weren’t on probation nor have they lost a banner. Stop comparing the Louisville situation to them. Louisville did stand up for Rick after the Powell ordeal. To ask them to do it again is silly. You can argue they overreacted with Jurich but not Pitino.So Kansas, UNC and others are stupid because they chose to keep their people.
I'll take it that you a perfectly content with where we stand because now we're "pure" and "clean".
Just like everybody else in P5 athletics.
I bring up those schools in terms of the FBI sting only and Louisville being on probation is not the point. Those schools actually played players that were involved in the shoe company scandals. Louisville did not and was only mentioned in the media to help promote the FBI'S findings.
That's the point! The overreaction by UofL because they didn't care if Pitino or Jurich was guilty or not. They felt they had to make the change.
Maybe they did the right thing? It was just too much to handle. Hard to argue for a program that has other issues, but through it all, with what we know and see now, both Jurich and Pitino could still be here in 2022. Yes, sanctions are still upcoming but there wouldn't have been all this losing basketball games.
Lot to unpack here.
1. There was nothing in Pitino’s contract that would’ve allowed firing him after the Sypher ordeal. Beyond that, it was a private matter that had nothing to do with his employment at the university.
2. Taking #1 into account, the Powell situation would have constituted one strike against Pitino and even still, there has been no one with a shred of credibility that has said that Pitino was aware if the situation.
3. Lots of allegations regarding financial dealings in that time frame however, zero proof provided. Pitino was fired for cause (under his revised contract) though with grissom in charge, he was going to be fired at some point no matter what. UofL ponied up just shy of 5M to Jurich in a settlement - that doesn’t happen if he was fired for cause.
4. The January 6th comments have no place here and only serve to weaken any argument you’re trying to advance.
The bottom line is that during Jurich’s tenure more positive things occurred in U of L athletics then in any other 20 year period inthe history of the university. There were mistakes and lapses of judgment but, that does not begin to erase what Jurich did while he was AD.
Strong has his “core values” that he put up in the locker room. Moving forward, here is the list that should be placed in every single space devoted to UofL athletics.
1. The ncaa is not your friend.
2. The ncaa does not have the best interests of the university at heart.
3. The ncaa exists to enrich itself and select chosen universities.
4. ncaa employees and policies have been demonstrated time and time again to be self- serving, hypocritical and intentionally uneven to benefit themselves and select universities.
5. The ncaa and their employees have proven time and again that in times where they are powerless to punish the individuals committing infractions - they are more than happy to punish individuals that had nothing to do with alleged infractions.
6. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
7. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
8. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
9. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
10. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
1. The ncaa is not your friend.
2. The ncaa does not have the best interests of the university at heart.
3. The ncaa exists to enrich itself and select chosen universities.
4. ncaa employees and policies have been demonstrated time and time again to be self- serving, hypocritical and intentionally uneven to benefit themselves and select universities.
5. The ncaa and their employees have proven time and again that in times where they are powerless to punish the individuals committing infractions - they are more than happy to punish individuals that had nothing to do with alleged infractions.
6. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
7. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
8. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
9. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
10. NEVER cooperate with the ncaa.
Pitino slept around at UK but the local media didn’t care about it then. It was a totally open secret. He spent most of his nights in Louisville instead the crossroads on a horse farm town of Lexington.
Porky Stupes, “the greatest football coach ever”, slept with co-eds behind his wife’s back, goes through a messy divorce, and local media says absolutely nothing about it….NOTHING. Viagra couldn’t get Timmy Sullivan up quick enough if this happened at Louisville. Pathetic.
I could careless who he slept with…,well unless it’s Jonathan Blues wife 😁
It has been 5 years since it has happened!!!
It’s time to stop rehashing spoiled spilled milk it does no one any good!
Now we need to trust that they hire the best Head Coach to bring UofL back
to National Prominence where it belong!!!
It’s time to stop rehashing spoiled spilled milk it does no one any good!
Now we need to trust that they hire the best Head Coach to bring UofL back
to National Prominence where it belong!!!
Big blue Matt Bevin got what he wanted when he replaced the BOT. He’s responsible for Jurich being gone.
Our basketball program is going to have a losing season, we don’t have a President, our AD is temporary and we aren’t bringing in the money. We didn’t have any of these problems when Jurich and Pitino were here but we still have fans that think we are better off. Go figure.
Nobody has said we are better off without them. That doesn’t mean you keep them no matter what. Geez move on.
We acted hastily and it cost us a ton of money, not to mention quick, shit-for-brain hires that continue to haunt us.
But they’re gone, and we’ll be fine I was told.
How’s that working out for us?
But they’re gone, and we’ll be fine I was told.
How’s that working out for us?
Acres hastily? We acted too slowly. I firmly believe if we suspended Pitino 5-10 games for Powell and Jurich admonished him publicly, they might both still be around. Instead nothing changed until changes needed to be made. But yeah, time to move on.
Glassman: The Sypher affair was ugly, but it had absolutely nothing to do with Pitino being fired, and your refusal to learn anything from witnessing Grissom’s private vendetta is unfortunate, and is exactly the sort of ignorance that will allow history to be repeated here again.
Personally, I never liked Rick, but he was hired to win basketball games; something he did exceptionally well, and apparently something that has escaped you. His subsequent departure from UL has resulted in a complete disaster on the court, and regardless of NCAA sanctions, the self destructive behavior of this Administration has jeopardized the long term future of our basketball program.
Personally, I never liked Rick, but he was hired to win basketball games; something he did exceptionally well, and apparently something that has escaped you. His subsequent departure from UL has resulted in a complete disaster on the court, and regardless of NCAA sanctions, the self destructive behavior of this Administration has jeopardized the long term future of our basketball program.
It’s hard to move on and forget all the success we once had when you look at where we are now. Right now the only thing we have is memories of the past. But hey I guess you’re glad because we got rid of all the people that made everything work.
I particularly liked the ones who said
“It’s built. All the new AD has to do is manage it. We’ll be fine”.
Yep
What I find ironic is, EVERYTHING we’ve done for years has been about money.
It’s pretty obvious that we have been systematically disassembled because of it. Somebody(s) thought we were getting too big and took us down.
One poster referred to comment by Grissom saying as much. Does anybody think he just woke up one day thinking that?
Or was he put in position and told that was what his position would be. Knock us down a notch. Or three.
We were starting to compete with the big dogs, in all sports. I believe what put the “hit” on us was our success against $EC teams in FB.
Now? We have joined the 85% of the schools who just go out, mumble dick around, and fill in games to the 15% that are still serious about it.
Now when we get back on top and competitive on a national scale, I will gladly eat crow.
I’ll wait until it happens. Lord willing.
Can’t answer the OP’s question yet. Already on probation for paying prostitutes to f*** potential student athletes, we get caught attempting to make an arrangement with our shoe company to pay for another player. Then while waiting for the NCAA to sort all that out, we get caught cheating again, even though this time the infractions are minor violations.
If we get the death penalty for a year - or more than a one year postseason ban - despite firing the coach and AD who were responsible for the first two major infractions and firing and accepting the resignation of the coach and AD responsible for the third set of violations, then you might say that we were dumb.
If at this point, we get off with a one year postseason ban, lose some scholarships, and have our probation extended, then I will consider us to be pretty smart in how we handled this clusterf****
If we get the death penalty for a year - or more than a one year postseason ban - despite firing the coach and AD who were responsible for the first two major infractions and firing and accepting the resignation of the coach and AD responsible for the third set of violations, then you might say that we were dumb.
If at this point, we get off with a one year postseason ban, lose some scholarships, and have our probation extended, then I will consider us to be pretty smart in how we handled this clusterf****
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Cooperation with the ncaa in any meaningful way was and will forever be a stupid decision.
And FWIW - no proof was ever offered as to UofL’s involvement in the Bowen thing.
I agree there is no proof Louisville offered money to Bowen I don’t know why people keep think that.
It doesn’t seem to matter though since the NCAA has said a booster (Adidas) of Louisville did.
I can’t imagine Louisville getting a post season ban in this environment. I think it is an incredible stretch to say Adidas or Nike are boosters. I think if they stick with that argument they will be in court for years. Unfortunately we know when the NCAA wants blood they get it.
I think Pitino could end up getting hit with something considering how IRP handled NC State. What would be funny is Rick P landing the Maryland job.
I can’t imagine Louisville getting a post season ban in this environment. I think it is an incredible stretch to say Adidas or Nike are boosters. I think if they stick with that argument they will be in court for years. Unfortunately we know when the NCAA wants blood they get it.
I think Pitino could end up getting hit with something considering how IRP handled NC State. What would be funny is Rick P landing the Maryland job.
Pushup: I was surprised to read your response to this OP; as that seems uncharacteristic of you. I encourage you to take another look at the chronology of all of these events leading up to our current situation. The one common denominator in all of this is the misbehavior on the part of assistant coaches. You do not have to take my word for it, listen to Luke Hancock and others who lived in Minardi Hall when McGee was having these parties. They were intentionally not invited, and had no idea they were ever going on. I totally believe that Pitino, nor anyone else associated with UL were aware of what McGee was doing. If so, McGee would have testified accordingly, instead of running off to California, and driving a cab.
Despite literally months of depositions under oath, and direct testimony in court ……there was not a shred of evidence implicating Pitino to any payments to Bowen, or his family or even to his assistant coaches that could be forwardEd on to Bowen.
Pitino and UL were both negligent for sure, but that is not worthy of any death penalty, and sure did not require dismantling of our sports program, something that Grissom engineered as he pushed the BOT to forcing Jurich out.
Innuendo and rumors aside …….. the facts are just not there. I am not so naive to believe the NCAA will not rule against UL, but I am equally confident that our own self-destructive decisions, are why this program is in the gutter right now. Look at Auburn, LSU, Kansas and others who have not self destructed, despite firsthand evidence of their respective HCs being directly engaged in violations.
Despite literally months of depositions under oath, and direct testimony in court ……there was not a shred of evidence implicating Pitino to any payments to Bowen, or his family or even to his assistant coaches that could be forwardEd on to Bowen.
Pitino and UL were both negligent for sure, but that is not worthy of any death penalty, and sure did not require dismantling of our sports program, something that Grissom engineered as he pushed the BOT to forcing Jurich out.
Innuendo and rumors aside …….. the facts are just not there. I am not so naive to believe the NCAA will not rule against UL, but I am equally confident that our own self-destructive decisions, are why this program is in the gutter right now. Look at Auburn, LSU, Kansas and others who have not self destructed, despite firsthand evidence of their respective HCs being directly engaged in violations.
No other program involved in any of this except for Louisville has 3 sets of violations that are being reviewed. Nobody else has even 2. The only positive thing we’ve got going for us in all of this is the firing or resignations of the people responsible.
All of the rest of it is splitting hairs and rationalizing. Jurich, Pitino, Mack, and Tyra were well compensated so that these mistakes don’t happen. Pitino and Jurich had earned enough good will here that they were allowed one mistake. The second one meant that they had to go.
The “but there’s no proof” about the Bowen incident is irrelevant when it comes to the NCAA, which doesn’t need proof to render a verdict.
All of the rest of it is splitting hairs and rationalizing. Jurich, Pitino, Mack, and Tyra were well compensated so that these mistakes don’t happen. Pitino and Jurich had earned enough good will here that they were allowed one mistake. The second one meant that they had to go.
The “but there’s no proof” about the Bowen incident is irrelevant when it comes to the NCAA, which doesn’t need proof to render a verdict.
If UofL gets hammered by the NCAA then you can be pretty sure Pitino will get hit with a show cause.
I’m not calling Luke a liar but saying that all the players didn’t know what was going on in Minardi Hall is nieve. Kids talk or tweet or whatever and I doubt “parties” were held in soundproof rooms. There’s no RA at the desk to sign in visitors? That’s not athletics, that’s administration, which really boils down to “I’m not ratting on anyone”
”Death Penalty“ is for the doomsday people, and with today’s NCAA it’s almost laughable to think that it’d happen!!
It was the money that McGee was handing out that wasn't known. The raunchy parties wasn't a secret to Luke and others. Maybe he kept that part from Pitino but finding out McGee was paying for it I'm sure was a surprise.
I bet even the players involved didn't know the extent of what McGee was doing over those years. Young men in dorm rooms with easy women is every straight male's college fantasy. Having those girls being prostitutes being paid by a assistant coach not so much.
I've said it all along. Andre McGee is the real villain, the real cause for the sanctions. The dude knows not to ever show his face on the campus again. All the shit we're experiencing is due to him. Period!
Definitely McGee is the villain but to think none of the players knew something was going on is nieve and ridiculous. He wasn’t running a ho service for everyone just players, otherwise we could claim the UNC loophole, that everyone had access to the service.
It's spelled naive. It's probably right that some players may have known McGee was breaking rules but no one was scared of NCAA sanctions coming from it. They were scared the head coach wouldn't be so friendly if he found out. Andre McGee himself probably never realized how bad it was going to get if caught what he was doing.
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