Hey Zipp.... More of that damn data

[Kratz]

Ready to concede that there's some problems going on with the recruiting? After our senior night this year consisting of one senior left out of a class of 5, Pitino said today at his presser that he expects a couple more kids to transfer out after this season.

The players that he keeps, he does a helluva job coaching up as is evidenced by the current roster making the elite 8. But the elephant in the room is the recruiting that leads to rosters with gaping holes in it. He's not doing a good job of scouting the person to make sure they're a fit for his system.

Agaou (sp?) is already gone, and rumors have been going around for awhile that Aaron and Gill will be gone after this season. Based on the comments today, I'd say it adds some credibility to those rumors.

You still think there's no problem with 2-3 players leaving every year that AREN'T leaving for the NBA (which is why I don't include Harrell or Rozier in these numbers) or are graduating?

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

There could be problems with recruiting, not that I'm Zipp.

My counter question is how important are those problems with recruiting?

After four straight sweet 16s that included a title, FF, and E8 it's fair to ask?

I guess I want to be really good every year, but is any program?

For me I like to wait until each season is over before passing judgment on things.

 

[ShortCreek]

Sign of the times. More transfers every year in men's college basketball. The trend is even bleeding over to the women's game as well. Instant gratification and there isn't any loyalty anymore with the players, coaches, anyone!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Originally posted by ShortCreek:
Sign of the times. More transfers every year in men's college basketball. The trend is even bleeding over to the women's game as well. Instant gratification and there isn't any loyalty anymore with the players, coaches, anyone!

I don't disagree, but it is their lives and I respect every player's decision on their own future.

The transfer game has been good to us.

Only one or two guys have actually produced any legit #'s after exiting here, and they did so on a mid-major level (Caracter and Lorenzo Wade), and neither lead their team to any post season succsss. On the flip side, transfers like Hancock and Chris Smith have given our program a nice boost.

The list of guys that have bounced ain't a who's who. Price, Huffman, Millard, Harvey, Justice, oh my, once a card always a card but those guys would struggle in intramurals.


Edit: I forgot about Kevin Ware, who was a nice role player @ G St last year, 8 ppg. They did win that one post season game. He would have helped our team immensely this year. That one stung a bit, but he had some issues his exit was kind of needed.
This post was edited on 3/30 4:27 PM by Ipartiedwithhopgood

 

[zipp]

I've said before that I think Pitino needs to make sure that his kids better fit the L1C4 model. You can do that coming in the door or once they get here. I think we all--including him--prefer that on the front end. And I think he's adapting to that need.

Pitino has recently been a victim of his own success. Because of that success, he can preach "L1C4" and still attract Top 50 kids who have NBA stars in their eyes. But those stars are a distraction, and it's better to find that out before Fall classes roll around.

He may need to take a pass on some high-rated kids who wanna come here but don't look like they fit the mold. That's heresy for some of our fans. But I'd rather have a roster full of kids like Virginia's. Those are the guys Pitino prefers to coach.

None of this rises to the level of a "problem" in my opinion. You don't go to Elite Eights and Final Fours consistently with "problems". It's more of a learning situation for Pitino. And I think he would admit that in confidence. Pitino takes care of true problems before they impact our results. And he's proven that repeatedly. The guy's a master of his trade, including recruiting...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Originally posted by zipp:


None of this rises to the level of a "problem" in my opinion. You don't go to Elite Eights and Final Fours consistently with "problems".

Agreed. And if Q Snider ends up being the only major contributor from the last class (jury still out) then it still may be a good class, the kid is going to be starting the next three years. He has potential to go down as a Cardinal great once he gets stronger and more acclimated to the system and the game @ this level.

I suspect one of the bigs Mahmoud or Nanu will break through in their careers - but both were touted as projects.

If Shaq sticks it out, he'll be ok. If he does not, that one could hurt, but we'll see.

 

[80_86]

Guys transferring out is just a reality under Pitino. It's nothing new since he's been here. Some of these kids he recruits know coming in that they can always transfer if they can't hack it. Pitino actually recommends leaving if he feels they're not going to play. There is no doubt that Pitino is demanding of his players but I believe he gives them a chance to prove themselves. If they perform in practice he gives them a shot in games. How many times did he give Gill, Aaron and Onaku to prove that they can contribute as Louisville Cardinals? They just continued to fail.

Take a guy like Jaylen Johnson. No one is talking about him leaving and that's because Pitino never really gave him a shot to fail. I think he knows that Johnson's going to be a player and didn't want him to lose any confidence he may have. Johnson doesn't feel he's had a chance to show what he can do and now that Harrell is gone, he knows he has his chance. Aaron and Onaku both had repeated chances this year and they have lost any confidence they once had. In today's culture these kids don't want to wait and are willing to bolt thinking the problem is something else than themselves. Remember Russ Smith was about to transfer as was Edgar Sosa.

Recruiting is a toss up. Unless your a NBA factory like UK and Duke, there's going to be hits and misses. Pitino has tried to land some really good recruits that could have made a big difference this year. Think Kris Dunn who chose Providence or Rodney Purvis at Uconn and Isiah Whitehead at Seton Hall. Then of course there's OSU's D'Angelo Russell. Pitino was right there with these guys but they decided not to be Cardinals. But Montrezl Harrell and Terry Rozier did. We fans are just going to have to accept the recruiting as it is. Hopefully the new rookies will be better than most of the last bunch. If not, they'll move on.

 

[shamcard]

I still believe Jalen Johnson will make the most impact by our returning bigs.

 

[zipp]

I also think too many of us base our opinions and assessments on what we see during the games. As important as that is, 90% of the players' time that is spent training and preparing is not on game day.

And what Pitino sees or doesn't see during that 90% none of us really know. Whether a guy showed sufficient effort or got his chance we're probably going to have to accept on faith...

 

[Bisky]

problems with recruiting? prob starts with being non-nike

 

[zipp]

Bisky, if you're serious about that "not Nike" stuff, it's a non-starter. We're not changing from adidas because of recruiting. That's probably 5th or 6th on the list of relevant factors for our apparel contract.

And Pitino isn't really interested in shoe kids anyway.

If what you're saying is true--not affiliating with Nike hurts us--we better look for some things to offset that disadvantage...

 

[baseball32fan]

The problem is that kids today have had their egos stroked by mom and dad and then by their AAU coaches and they expect to waltz in the door whereever they choose and start, Parents are not helping their kids by only being their cheerleaders - you need your child to understand that you have to pay your dues and do the work before you deserve your time to shine. Be realistic with your athletes parents, it helps them push themselves even harder to try to achieve their dreams.I told mine that they had a gift, but they were not the only talented ones out there and the ones that make it are the ones that ignored the compliments and continued to work hard.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

With Aaron and Onuaku staying it's not so bad.

Factor in Agau and Gill simply got recruited over and it just doesn't feel like a big deal to me @ this time.