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Exercise Patience for Coach Mack Year One

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Ipartiedwithhopgood

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Jan 20, 2011
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Still unsure who is staying, who is going. Regardless, first season, players he didn't recruit. For some on the team, this will be their 3rd coach. This is not normal. New system entirely.

Hoping many learned from last year that high expectations may not be warranted despite a pre-season ranking.

I'm all for getting behind the team and being excited in general, but we need to let the cake bake!
 
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I feel like most fans will be not only patient, but supportive. Just good coaching and effort for 40 minutes. That was what we saw in Rick pitino first season and excitement followed. Mack will be given time, I am confident.
 
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I agree most of our fan base will be patient and understanding the transition the players will be going through.
 
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FAN=FANATICS . Not going to happen this board will be full on ignorance after the first couple of exhibition games . Watch and see!
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Still unsure who is staying, who is going. Regardless, first season, players he didn't recruit. For some on the team, this will be their 3rd coach. This is not normal. New system entirely.

Hoping many learned from last year that high expectations may not be warranted despite a pre-season ranking.

I'm all for getting behind the team and being excited in general, but we need to let the cake bake!
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Good post Hop. David Padgett deserved the same lattitude but didn't get it, so I doubt coach Mack who will be making 4 times as much per year will get lattitude either. UofL fans expect to win. Period. It's not rational to expect it but fanatics aren't rational to start with.

If coach Mack doesn't at least guide the team to the NCAA tourney his very first year, you will see a ton of people talking trash about the job he's doing. Hell, there will be people talking smack if he fails to make the final 4.
 
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As long as there is effort, I think fans will have reasonable expectations. Of course, we can't expect anything right now until the roster is settled.
 
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I almost agree. IF Adel and Spalding return and this team stays together (tranfers) then I believe they could be a top 10 team next year. The roster is loaded. Coach Padgett did the best he could with his experience. If Coach Mack does this team could be really good year 1. If everyone returns this team will have a ton of talent. Coach Mack will not be overwhelmed by teams like Padgett was.
 
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Official loss of Spalding takes this team off the national radar next year going into the season, and that may be what these kids and staff need.
 
BPGhost said:
Interesting and ironic take coming from you.
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No i talk with freaking actual facts with whats going on when they stunk i have no problem saying it . If they did good i say so. I'm just not a freaking sunshine pumper then when shit hits the fan change tune unlike you and others. Go read my post always consistent.
 
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I'm betting some of the (fan)atics that actually take the time to post on message boards will not be as patient as the more general UofL fans. And that is a good thing because there are many more fans that don't post on sports message boards than do.

Mack will need time to get things rolling. I'm willing to give him that time and will try to keep expectations in check accordingly.
 
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REDFISTFURY3 said:
No i talk with freaking actual facts with whats going on when they stunk i have no problem saying it . If they did good i say so. I'm just not a freaking sunshine pumper then when shit hits the fan change tune unlike you and others. Go read my post always consistent.
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Wow, I guess that hit a nerve - lol.
 
So what is the bar for Mack to clear next year if patience is in order? Is there a bar?

Just asking...
 
zipp said:
So what is the bar for Mack to clear next year if patience is in order? Is there a bar?

Just asking...
Click to expand...

I'm going to hold off until seeing the roster, but he's not inheriting an experienced team even if all the guys that played a reserve role choose to stay. Each player is getting elevated into significantly larger roles. They are losing their top 3 scorers and 4 of their 5 top scorers assuming Adel follows Spalding out the door. An unexpected return of Adel would be significant.


Leading returning scorer will be VJ King at 8ppg, followed by McMahon at 6ppg.

What bar are you setting? You've gone on record saying King isn't very good, so.... you can't be expecting much can you?
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Lose top 3 scorers, top 3 rebounders, and top 2 defenders off an NIT team... have a total of 0 recruits signed for next year, have a big transfer that got no stats at UCONN coming in...the bar should be low.
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Expectations should be low but you know as well as I that the lunatic fringe will not accept another NIT year without going completely off the range posting rants of displeasure.

Coach Mack will bring more coaching experience to the team and that 0 recruit stat is going to change. We will get at least 1 grad transfer, and probably 2. Coach Mack has openly stated he's looking at adding 2 or 3 players to the roster. Too early to tell where the bar should be set IMO.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
...What bar are you setting? You've gone on record saying King isn't very good, so.... you can't be expecting much can you?
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Well, I'm not expecting #12 in the country which is what I've heard at least one poll predicting. If Mack gets to that level--Elite 8/Sweet 16--with THIS team, I'll be more pleased than anyone. You won't have to pry Mack compliments from me!

I've always tended to under-predict success so that I'm surprised on the upside. In that context and assuming we don't land a couple of blue chip grad transfers, I'll simply look at an NCAA tourney bid as positive. IMO to justify what he's being paid, he needs to make the NCAA field just like a much lower paid greenhorn (Padgett) needed the same result to have any chance of keeping his job. If Mack can't make the field, he's not proving to me that he's deserving of the optimism many/most fans are showing.

Not to make this about me, but is the leading hater of the new regime unreasonable with that expectation?... :cool:
 
I tell my parents the same damn thing and UK fans the same shit, if it doesn't go well after the fans think it's supposed to go great ...oh damn....open the flood gates when it doesn't go well.....it'll be crazy bad when negative Nancy hits the boards. it'l be.."time for a new coach!"
 
zipp said:
Not to make this about me, but is the leading hater of the new regime unreasonable with that expectation?... :cool:
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Yes, it's an unreasonable bar. The team loses the 3 top players off an NIT team, 4 of the top 5....and isn't bringing in top shelf replacements. There were no injured players that are now recovered.

It's a "rebuilding year" where the Sophomores learn on the job.
 
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zipp said:
IMO to justify what he's being paid, he needs to make the NCAA field just like a much lower paid greenhorn (Padgett) needed the same result to have any chance of keeping his job. If Mack can't make the field, he's not proving to me that he's deserving of the optimism many/most fans are showing.
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Mack didn't inherit the roster Padgett received, not even close.

Who is Mack's team captain? Who is going to be the leading scorer? Who is going to be the leading rebounder?

Even better 2 questions. Who is the leading returning scorer? Spoiler alert - King. Who is the returning leading rebounder? I actually do not know, maybe Sutton? That guy is 6-4.

Answer these questions with a straight face.
 
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I didn't have high expectations last year once JJ and Bowen weren't part of the team. Then Pitino leaves why people had high expectations was puzzling.

By all accounts practices are going to be brutal under Mack. I think they will play better as a team. The question is can Mack fill the big holes in the roster. With Deng more than likely being gone the roster has glaring holes.

SG-they need a legit 2G.
PG-they have to find someone to push Perry.
PF-they need a legit PF. Not much early word on option since Ray's decision.
C-Need a backup.

Once those questions are answered then you can set your expectations. They obviously aren't going to fill all these spots, but we know current roster isn't going to win many games.
 
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Just making the NCAA tourney is not an accomplishment for a program of U of L's stature. We're among 65 P5 schools, and there are 30-something at-large bids AFTER the five P5 auto-qualifiers are selected. If you can't struggle into that group, you haven't done much.

You esp. haven't done much if your coach is paid $4 million a year, and the 33-year old guy making 25% of that accomplished the same thing last year. I don't believe a majority of our fans are gonna see things differently...
 
zipp said:
Just making the NCAA tourney is not an accomplishment for a program of U of L's stature. We're among 65 P5 schools, and there are 30-something at-large bids AFTER the five P5 auto-qualifiers are selected. If you can't struggle into that group, you haven't done much.

You esp. haven't done much if your coach is paid $4 million a year, and the 33-year old guy making 25% of that accomplished the same thing last year. I don't believe a majority of our fans are gonna see things differently...
Click to expand...

If you are unwilling to discuss facts in regards to the actual team the guy is going to coach, then there is no reason to discuss further.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
If you are unwilling to discuss facts in regards to the actual team the guy is going to coach, then there is no reason to discuss further.
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I'm glad to discuss anything...

Malik Williams
Jordan Nwora
Duane Sutton
Darius Perry
VJ King
Deng Adel
Ryan McMahon
Brian Enoch

That's eight guys to form the nucleus of your starters and reserves. And that roster of sophomores, juniors, and seniors does not give you a pass IMO from making the NCAA field. You make it?...Good. You don't make it?...Not so good.

Discuss away...
 
Agree, plus the three freshman coming in, look good. Zipp, we disagree sometimes, but I do here. And 12 is full team. That's enough to make the NCAA.
 
zipp said:
I'm glad to discuss anything...

Malik Williams
Jordan Nwora
Duane Sutton
Darius Perry
VJ King
Deng Adel
Ryan McMahon
Brian Enoch

That's eight guys to form the nucleus of your starters and reserves. And that roster of sophomores, juniors, and seniors does not give you a pass IMO from making the NCAA field. You make it?...Good. You don't make it?...Not so good.

Discuss away...
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Deng Adel isn't returning. If he is - yes that is a difference maker.

Yes, you named 7 guys that form the nucleus. Is knowing their names discussing?

Discuss their stats - you know, the evidence you like to use in most debates.

Team avg 76 ppg last year - they are losing roughly 45 of those 76 pts.
Team avg 14 astpg last year - they are losing roughly 9 of those 14.
Team avg 37 rebpg last year - they are losing roughly 22 of those 37.
Team avg 6 blockspg last year - they are losing roughly 5 of those 6.

From an NIT team.

Your leading returning scorer got 8 ppg on 40% FGs and 32% 3pt shots.
Your leading returning rebounder got 4 rpg and is a SF. From an awful rebounding team.

Maybe Mack pulls an impressive late player or two, and maybe Adel returns. If those things happen, game changer.

If not, it's going to be a long season. And you know that.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Deng Adel isn't returning. If he is - yes that is a difference maker.

Yes, you named 7 guys that form the nucleus. Is knowing their names discussing?

Discuss their stats - you know, the evidence you like to use in most debates.

Team avg 76 ppg last year - they are losing roughly 45 of those 76 pts.
Team avg 14 astpg last year - they are losing roughly 9 of those 14.
Team avg 37 rebpg last year - they are losing roughly 22 of those 37.
Team avg 6 blockspg last year - they are losing roughly 5 of those 6.

From an NIT team.

Your leading returning scorer got 8 ppg on 40% FGs and 32% 3pt shots.
Your leading returning rebounder got 4 rpg and is a SF. From an awful rebounding team.

Maybe Mack pulls an impressive late player or two, and maybe Adel returns. If those things happen, game changer.

If not, it's going to be a long season. And you know that.
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You'd hope that Mack would be able to take guys with talent and be able to turn them into something. Add a couple of grad transfers and hopefully we'd have a team capable of making the tournament at a minimum. IMO that is what dictates a successful season next year. If we don't make the tournament next season it would be disappointing and put a damper on the fresh start.

A large part of why the team was a NIT was coaching. We had talent and adding a coach to that should create better results.
 
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gocards1987 said:
A large part of why the team was a NIT was coaching. We had talent and adding a coach to that should create better results.
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I agree the NIT was mostly due to coaching, no doubt. I'd say the talent is overblown by many - and the NBA draft will confirm that. But no doubt the team had the experience and enough talent to make the NCAA. I'd argue their resume was enough to make it, but that's another discussion.

The main problem with the 2nd part of your post is - yes we are adding a coach, but we aren't adding a coach for this year, it's for next year, and all that experienced talent is gone.

Unless Adel pulls a stunner.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
I agree the NIT was mostly due to coaching, no doubt. I'd say the talent is overblown by many - and the NBA draft will confirm that. But no doubt the team had the experience and enough talent to make the NCAA. I'd argue their resume was enough to make it, but that's another discussion.

The main problem with the 2nd part of your post is - yes we are adding a coach, but we aren't adding a coach for this year, it's for next year, and all that experienced talent is gone.

Unless Adel pulls a stunner.
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The guys we have coming back arent unheralded guys though. Most were thought of as pretty good recruits when we got them. They havent been developed though. I’d hope that Mack would be able to get more out of them than Padgett plus adding a few grad transfers.
 
Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
Deng Adel isn't returning. If he is - yes that is a difference maker.

Yes, you named 7 guys that form the nucleus. Is knowing their names discussing?

Discuss their stats - you know, the evidence you like to use in most debates.

Team avg 76 ppg last year - they are losing roughly 45 of those 76 pts.
Team avg 14 astpg last year - they are losing roughly 9 of those 14.
Team avg 37 rebpg last year - they are losing roughly 22 of those 37.
Team avg 6 blockspg last year - they are losing roughly 5 of those 6.

From an NIT team.

Your leading returning scorer got 8 ppg on 40% FGs and 32% 3pt shots.
Your leading returning rebounder got 4 rpg and is a SF. From an awful rebounding team.

Maybe Mack pulls an impressive late player or two, and maybe Adel returns. If those things happen, game changer.

If not, it's going to be a long season. And you know that.
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What I know is that Mack earns four times what Padgett made. He'd better prove he's worth that when the first ball is tipped.

I really don't think the question of Adel is that relevant. He certainly would get PT, but he's not putting this team on his shoulders unless Mack is able to bring forth a player that has been nothing more than a promise or hope during his career. And I generally don't count on that from a senior. Untapped potential late in your college career is not anything to bank on.

Our 2015-16 team that we banned from the postseason... It lost 90% of its scoring from the year before compared to your stats above for next year of 60%. That team lost 65% of its rebounding, compared to 60% for next year. And they lost 85% of their assists compared to 64% for next year. Yet, that team finished with an RPI ranking of 17 and would have been safely in the NCAA with probably no worse than a five seed.

They got Lee & Lewis, of course, and Onuaku surprised compared to his freshmen season. That's the kind of job Mack needs to pull off. He really hasn't gotten a late start on grad transfers, and there may be an Onuaku on next year's team that no one expects. Just scratching its way into the tourney--the standard I recommended for Mack next year--is less than the 2015-16 team actually accomplished.

It's probably not that hard to find other examples of U of L teams that had major attrition statistically and still made the postseason. If that's the primary basis for your argument, I'll try to find them to show that it's not so extraordinary for a good coach...
 
gocards1987 said:
...If we don't make the tournament next season it would be disappointing and put a damper on the fresh start...
Click to expand...
Whether that's a reasonable goal--hop doesn't think it is--I anticipate that a lot of U of L fans are gonna have that same expectation...
 
gocards1987 said:
The guys we have coming back arent unheralded guys though. Most were thought of as pretty good recruits when we got them. They havent been developed though. I’d hope that Mack would be able to get more out of them than Padgett plus adding a few grad transfers.
Click to expand...

I agree, but they are going to be Soph and they were recruited as 3-4 year types of players.

And yes, if we add stout grad transfers that would swing things too.
 
zipp said:
Whether that's a reasonable goal--hop doesn't think it is--I anticipate that a lot of U of L fans are gonna have that same expectation...
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's an unreasonable goal, I'm saying it's an unreasonable expectation.

These are two very different things my man!
 
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