Time to quit talking about all this “healing” bullshit and what not. The program hit rock bottom tonight because Payne cannot get these guys to give effort. The missed windmill dunk that turned into a 3 pointer was one of the most embarrassing plays I’ve ever seen in UofL history. It’s time to put guys on notice. If you don’t give effort, you don’t have a spot on the team anymore. Frankly, if I was Josh Heird I’d tell Payne he needs to fire someone on his staff this week. It’s time to send a message that lack of effort both from players and coaches isn’t going to be accepted.
Cut the BS Payne
- Thread starter Knucklehank1
- Start date
The buck stops with Payneful
If Payenful needs to fire someone, it should be the man in his mirror.....
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All time low for the program. Cards are the laughing stock of college basketball. This is rock bottom. Payne needs to be gone at the end of the season.
KP is rumored to be after another NBA Africa guy. the guy is a 6'8 monster dunker. so that is our hope for next year.
That’s great. In the meantime he can hold those on scholarship and those on salary accountable for their effort or lack thereof.
At least he doesn’t have to be worried that the team thinks “they’ve arrived” anymore.
Payne make Patrick Ewing look like Red Auerbach. Effing pathetic..,
Payne make Patrick Ewing look like Red Auerbach. Effing pathetic..,
This roster is a shit show. I have said it from day one. Think about it the core group could get two guys fired in 2 years. That is unbelievable. Keep pounding away at Payne that is fine but have the same venom toward the players. They are equally probably more responsible for this mess than the staffs they got fired.
Say what you want about coaches they get paid but these players are not competitors. It really is that simple. Good luck coaching guys that don’t care if they win or lose. The core guys have been playing for themselves for 2 years. They have cratered their own basketball careers in doing so.
Say what you want about coaches they get paid but these players are not competitors. It really is that simple. Good luck coaching guys that don’t care if they win or lose. The core guys have been playing for themselves for 2 years. They have cratered their own basketball careers in doing so.
But…. When the coach comes on his postgame shows and complains that some of the players “forget the plays or don’t know the plays” I don’t see that so much as a player thing as a coaching thing. Why don’t they know the plays? Why do you have them out there if they don’t know or can’t remember the plays? Who is responsible for teaching them the plays and making sure they understand what they are supposed to be doing? If there is a valid criticism of the players it may be that the players don’t care. They are not buying what KP is selling. They won’t run through a wall for KP. If they run through anything it will be the door to get away from this cluster f**k!!!
The players deserve to get plenty of blame too, but its still up to Payne to do something about it. If the players quit and show no heart then sit them on the bench and play all the walk ons and guys like Okorafor that still show some heart. Don't keep starting guys like Curry who obviously doesn't want to be out there.
Pittsburgh guard said he watches lot of video. so he knew what do to yesterday.
KP just keeps playing the same broken defense. anyone with video can see how to break his scheme. opponents can keep passing the ball and set screens until we fail to rotate and close out hard. and there is no ball pressure. opponents are free to pass to anyone.
KP just keeps playing the same broken defense. anyone with video can see how to break his scheme. opponents can keep passing the ball and set screens until we fail to rotate and close out hard. and there is no ball pressure. opponents are free to pass to anyone.
These guys are going to finish 3-29. There's no way their talent (a 5*, several 4*, a some 3*, #1 JUCO in teh country) was misjudged by that much. One guy or two, maybe, but not everyone. I don't believe it. THe program is just completely toxic and without a rudder.
Great comment: WE ARE RUDDERLESS! Zero, nada, leadership. Not sure who KP thinks he is kidding but this fanbase knows a little about baskeball and we suck, period. KP really needs to simply do the right thing and resign and allow us to find a coach that can win. Pretty simple.
GO CARDS!!!
GO CARDS!!!
Really think about what you are saying the core group was 13-19 last year got their coach to quit. Lost 13-15 to end the year. They get a new coach with all kinds of NBA contacts and they play with no effort and toughness out of the gate.
Benching this crew is about is fruitless as coaching them. Really if last years disaster didn’t motivate them the bench sure the hell isn’t going to work.
Benching this crew is about is fruitless as coaching them. Really if last years disaster didn’t motivate them the bench sure the hell isn’t going to work.
If attitude and effort isn’t right then Payne should consider dismissing guys from the team. They’d retain their scholarships thru the end of the semester but could then have more time to focus on things that matter tge most to them.
I think it has been obvious since day one their effort hasn’t been there. How in the world does Curry show up and continue to be out of shape? Guess who West was begging to finish drills last year…..Curry.
This year was about figuring out which he could trust to help establish his program. The list keeps shrinking.
This off season will be interesting.
This year was about figuring out which he could trust to help establish his program. The list keeps shrinking.
This off season will be interesting.
some of our players are not coachable. can see the difference in a good player like Okorafor. he picked things up quickly. hustles down the floor on his own.
hope we can land the other NBA Africa guy Churchill Abass. take a look at his dunks on twitter. i felt bad for the rim when he dunked.
hope we can land the other NBA Africa guy Churchill Abass. take a look at his dunks on twitter. i felt bad for the rim when he dunked.
How can you say that based off their actual performance for 2 years under 2 different coaches?
We have 2 full seasons actual game performance with the guys that returned.
They have sucked under both of them.
Self motivation is a talent. Being coachable is a talent. Playing with effort is a talent. Being a really good teammate is a talent. None of that is in the rankings.
To blame all this on KP is ridiculous. To say 100% this won’t work is ridiculous. It is reasonable to discuss why they should fire him but don’t minimize how terrible the returning players have been by giving their freaking high rankings when you have 2 years of game data.
They shouldn’t only have 3 wins but let’s not at like this group was winning more than 6 or 7 under any new coach that was on the list.
A bit disingenuous if you ask me. You can't fairly compare the five players that returned from last season from their play this season. Maybe with Withers but the other four not so much.
Ellis played behind two other point guards and when he had his best games, it was at shooting guard. I believe what we're seeing from him this season is about right, no surprise. He's a SG forced to play PG and he has ZERO guard help.
Now Curry rarely saw the court under Chris Mack but when he did get to play, the team was already losing. He in no way caused the team to lose 18 games. His struggles this season may be what Coach Mack saw in him? Regardless, he is not the cause of this 3 win season.
Wheeler and Traynor barely saw the court last season so you can't compare their effort to this season.
There is no comparison of two years of game data with the returning players except that they played with a deeper roster last season. No one last season blamed losing on these 5 players.
We all figured KP's first season would be a struggle unless the newcomers turned out to be the difference. Lands, James and BHH all were highly recruited and we were hopeful KP could mold them with the returnees to field a competitive team.
He hasn't and he can't. This debacle is 100 percent on Kenny Payne. I agree it was unfair and unwise to think he could be successful his first season, and he has proven why over and over and over.
3 and 21 is on the coach, not the players. 9+ losses by 20+ points is on KP. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise.
Ellis played behind two other point guards and when he had his best games, it was at shooting guard. I believe what we're seeing from him this season is about right, no surprise. He's a SG forced to play PG and he has ZERO guard help.
Now Curry rarely saw the court under Chris Mack but when he did get to play, the team was already losing. He in no way caused the team to lose 18 games. His struggles this season may be what Coach Mack saw in him? Regardless, he is not the cause of this 3 win season.
Wheeler and Traynor barely saw the court last season so you can't compare their effort to this season.
There is no comparison of two years of game data with the returning players except that they played with a deeper roster last season. No one last season blamed losing on these 5 players.
We all figured KP's first season would be a struggle unless the newcomers turned out to be the difference. Lands, James and BHH all were highly recruited and we were hopeful KP could mold them with the returnees to field a competitive team.
He hasn't and he can't. This debacle is 100 percent on Kenny Payne. I agree it was unfair and unwise to think he could be successful his first season, and he has proven why over and over and over.
3 and 21 is on the coach, not the players. 9+ losses by 20+ points is on KP. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise.
No rudder, no oars, no captain and there’s a huge hole in the boat! We don’t even have a bucket to bail with!!
So my question is this - if the season is completely over and, you’re going to lose anyway, why in the world wouldn’t you give ALL the minutes to those players who actually give effort? Why would you continue to reward clock to players who have continually demonstrated that they have no interest in playing hard or being coachable? Are you afraid of getting blown out or embarrassed? That ship sailed 20 games ago.
I agree with you from the standpoint of the bench not being a motivator for several of them. Don’t use it as a motivator - nail their asses to the bench because that’s the spot they’ve earned.
Or dismiss them.
To not do so, shows a lack of resolve and ability on Payne’s part. And, it completely undermines all of his talk of “building a culture”. A culture of what? Players that give effort when they feel like it?
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While I get no one cares for this being a process, that is how KP approached this year. He basically told us to be patient from the get go.
Based off his comments I think this year was a complete evaluation of the who was going to be part of the program next year. The results weren’t changing by benching-shortening playing time. He gave them every opportunity to be successful. To me this made the end of year discussion very easy. I think he knows exactly who he wants to keep.
Some of the players have told on themselves. They don’t fit his system or his values. That is OK and happens in year one. That doesn’t mean the kids are bad players or people they just don’t understand what it really takes to compete and win at this level.
His challenge next year has to show a significant upgrade in talent and performance. He is bringing in his guys. There is no cloud or players that don’t fit argument that will fly. Next has to show real progress in player development and acquisition.
Based off his comments I think this year was a complete evaluation of the who was going to be part of the program next year. The results weren’t changing by benching-shortening playing time. He gave them every opportunity to be successful. To me this made the end of year discussion very easy. I think he knows exactly who he wants to keep.
Some of the players have told on themselves. They don’t fit his system or his values. That is OK and happens in year one. That doesn’t mean the kids are bad players or people they just don’t understand what it really takes to compete and win at this level.
His challenge next year has to show a significant upgrade in talent and performance. He is bringing in his guys. There is no cloud or players that don’t fit argument that will fly. Next has to show real progress in player development and acquisition.
His “system”? Exactly WTF is his “system”? Because from the outside looking in, it appears to be the tail wagging the dog.
A lazy, unmotivated tail - wagging a a clueless dog desperately in over his head.
Agree. I don’t see anything that resembles a system. I don’t see coaches on the bench actively coaching the guys during the game (except for Nolan Smith occasionally). Also, it is quite convenient for him to preach extreme patience. In the meantime, season ticket holders are reevaluating whether or not they should renew their tix. If this year really was just a “f it” year then Heird looks like a real dumbass for paying him like he did to fart around in year 1 while he figured out what he is doing.
If Payne envisioned patience for a 3-29 season he's even more clueless than everyone already suspects. Patience would be called for if we were around last years record with competitive games and not standard 20+ blowouts. Certainly not this travesty we are watching
Well at some point you are going to need patience because Louisville doesn’t have the money to keep firing coaches. Unless the next coach is the next up and coming Rick Pitino you are going to need it because the current free agent market makes every year a crap shoot.
Go ahead fire Payne the next guy will have an anchor welded to his waist…..he is not going anywhere and he knows it.
Go ahead fire Payne the next guy will have an anchor welded to his waist…..he is not going anywhere and he knows it.
While we’re at it - what exactly are his “values”?
1. Coddling players by telling them and the fans that any lack of effort or achievement is due to them being “damaged”?
2. Begging players for regular effort but still continuing to reward those players who don’t play hard with starting spots and major minutes?
3. Suggesting that fans who are (justifiably) upset with the shit show that he’s unleashed on us - aren’t “real” or “true” fans?
4. Cashing millions of dollars of paychecks for pennys on the dollar results?
He’s definitely a Fat Cal disciple.
If Payne had any decency, he’d resign rather than continue to take money he hasn’t earned. Were he to do the honorable thing, UofL wouldn’t have to sweat the money.
Seems Payne will get at least 2 seasons no matter what, but if next season is a repeat or just slightly better, he needs to be gone after that. UofL and it's fans can't take multiple years of utter crap losing seasons like some are wanting to give Pyane.
The coach from Murray State went to LSU, a program with 1 scholarship player coming back b/c everyone left when LSU FARRR'D that Wade sonofabeyitch. McMahon completely rebuild teh roster in short order using the portal and they currently stand at 12-12. Now, let's be honest - we'd be bitching about 12-12 and probably talking about how McMahon needs to be FARRR'D (LOL), but we're fans and fanatical. The reality is he inherited a team with ONE PLAYER and already they're competitive and winning half their games in a pretty tough league.
Payne has a roster with one 5*, six 4*s, some 3*s and the #1 JUCO player in AMerica in El Ellis. It's not unrealistic or whatever to say they should be around 0.500 AT LEAST.
Payne has a roster with one 5*, six 4*s, some 3*s and the #1 JUCO player in AMerica in El Ellis. It's not unrealistic or whatever to say they should be around 0.500 AT LEAST.
Any coach that loses more games than they win looks like they have no values and can’t coach. The truth is KP has no head coaching background the results indicate, don’t guarantee, he can’t coach. I have never said the criticism isn’t fair. I have only said the talent isn’t good enough. Who cares if they win 10 games. They suck. We wouldn’t really be able to discern this is going to work or not.
I look at it more objectively. No one will change my mind players win and lose game. Coaches build programs 1 year doesn’t define a coaches ability to do that. On top of that he has a contract. Louisville can’t just fire coaches early in contract while still paying off last coach.
The LSU coach keeps coming up he has exactly the same number of conference wins as KP. Flip it we are losing our minds with and having the same conversation. I don’t mind the comparison but him bringing 3 players with him from Murray State matters especially early on. KJ Williams is legit. He dominated the early conference games. The other 2 averaged 9-12 pt pre conference. He comes here he doesn’t lose those early games because he has three guys that understand him and his system. That matters. However once conference play starts better competition and losses starts down they go.
He is probably getting another year mainly due to the contract but it is up to him to show he is capable of acquiring players that fit him. I don’t get into the weeds on his system especially when the current players don’t have really good basketball skills.
Mack did plenty to get himself into that situation. You can't put that on the players.
He tried to implement a fast paced run and gun system he had no clue how to run. He brought in McMains who was equally cluless.
Then he fired two of his assistants and got caught recording Dino trying to extort him rather than firing him with HR like he was supposed to do.
