I said Ramsey was part of a corrupt political machine before he came here. That machine is still around but no longer has control of the state which it had for 100 years. Now we have a two party state. I am not going to blame Bevin for our problems just because I might not agree with his choices for new leadership. Those may or may not pan out for us, but the problems were created by our own people, not Bevin.
Conspiracy Theory.... Theory
- Thread starter mattp58
- Start date
Let me see if I can explain this clearly.
Here’s where Ramsey got in trouble.
1) Approving his own bonus/salary and the salaries he paid individuals.
2) Over seeing the foundation
All of this should have been the responsibility of the BOT.
Let’s go back 20 years and let’s say the current BOT is the one over the last 20 years that Ramsey and Jurich dealt with. Do you think they would have approved most of what Ramsey and Jurich did? Or even half? Do you think 4 UK grads with no ties to UofL would approve facilities that would dwarf UK’s? I’m telling you that would have never occurred. Could you sit on the UK BOT as a UofL grad/fan and watch them build and build and improve their University when you can’t even get a decent upgrade on your football stadium and have a baseball stadium that’s in terrible shape. That’s where we’re at.
See most donors had issues with the bonus and salary deal, but absolutely wanted the structures to go up and the hiring of the high quality coaches.
Not forgetting that academics absolutely improved while Ramsey was here.
Are only two disagreements are:
1) Whether Ramsey should get credit and
2) Whether the new BOT has the best interest of UofL
Looking at the timeline, the $2M a year increased rent seemed to be part of this. Jurich did not just roll over on the demand from Frankfort on this. That seems to have upset the dictatorial elements since they are on the hook for a financial albatross and needed UoL athletics to pony up.
So now, UofL athletics is being destroyed by the situation and only making the Yum hole worse, even though they got their $2M per year.
So now that they have not fixed the albatross it would seem plan B is the NBA. Its hard to believe NBA was plan A. These folks are not that smart.
So now, UofL athletics is being destroyed by the situation and only making the Yum hole worse, even though they got their $2M per year.
So now that they have not fixed the albatross it would seem plan B is the NBA. Its hard to believe NBA was plan A. These folks are not that smart.
By your own admission, you were in high school when Ramsey became U of L's President. Even if you were paying attention--which I doubt--WTH would you know about a "state political machine" as a teenager? Didn't you have some math or English homework to do?? Gimme a break...
Again, those are simply words without evidence. If that's true, then Ramsey received money improperly. And if it was millions, U of L would be going after the money even if the crime wasn't prosecuted. It wasn't and they're not.
You're little more than a clown show gum-flapper...
Wow. Get off Ramsey's jock. Are you his administrative assistant? Are you still denying his shady practices?
I'm denying you have proof of your allegations re. Ramsey. You've had repeated opportunities to produce it, and you can't. That reduces you to nothing but a gum-flapper...
This mess is ABSOLUTELY the fault of Ramsey and TJ.
No doubt.
Because without them, we’re still in CUSA and NOBODY gives a shit.
So those cussing them, are living (athletically), and worrying, worrying about the world they built.
You would not have the all the good, without the bad.
No doubt.
Because without them, we’re still in CUSA and NOBODY gives a shit.
So those cussing them, are living (athletically), and worrying, worrying about the world they built.
You would not have the all the good, without the bad.
The auditors have already provided it. The fact you refuse to see it reduces you to nothing but a delusional troll.
You're nothing more than a Ramsey hater. The auditor found nothing but process and procedural issues. I've read the report. Nice try...
Thanks for your contribution to the thread, Ms. Smith. What did you do with all that money you were paid for being Ramsey's stooge over at the Foundation?
Zipp, he’s just some kid who “believes” what he “feels”. Factual data doesn’t matter to him. Enough people have repeated that Ramsey was corrupt, so he believes it. With his wealth of knowledge and experience with politics and wealth management, I’m just greatful he’s had the time to grace us with his sports acumen.
Ramsey walked away from, resigned, quit, hit the road or what ever you want to call it and left his post at U of L and the U of L Foundation on his own. He accepted about 700 thousand as a severance for the U of L President job. Roughly 2 years pay. If I recall correctly, He got nothing from the foundation which had paid him 2 million a year for each the last 4 years before he resigned.
Frankly, Ramsey looked like he was too busy stuffing his pockets to deal with issues in the athletic department which led to the termination of Tom and Rick. He was riding the money train and didn't want to derail it.
He is now free from the chains of a public university where self approved bonuses of 6 times your base salary raise eyebrows and public ire. Actions do not have to be illegal to be shady and self serving.
Finally, it is possible to find Ramsey's actions revolting and not approve of the new administration as well.
Frankly, Ramsey looked like he was too busy stuffing his pockets to deal with issues in the athletic department which led to the termination of Tom and Rick. He was riding the money train and didn't want to derail it.
He is now free from the chains of a public university where self approved bonuses of 6 times your base salary raise eyebrows and public ire. Actions do not have to be illegal to be shady and self serving.
Finally, it is possible to find Ramsey's actions revolting and not approve of the new administration as well.
And I'm not defending Ramsey on those "process and procedural" issues... Under his management, the Foundation lacked transparency, were indifferent and defensive to people asking questions, and behaved like they were guilty of something. But that's not actionable beyond the guy losing his job, and he's not gonna be pursued for things he didn't do or can't be proven...
If Ramsey was so corrupt, why is he not in jail or under indictment? 
Capone went down for tax evasion. If they want you, they'll get you.
If Ramsey was "crooked" (aka "criminal") as some so much want to say, SOMEBODY would be after him. FBI, IRS, SEC. Somebody
But they're not.
He's in a helluva lot better shape without UL, than UL is without him. Without him we are Cincinnati. Or Memphis. Mumble dicking around in Birmingham Bowls and hoping for a 5 seed.
But we're not. Thanks to him and TJ.
As far as I'm concerned, Ramsey was worth what he got. Now the secretaries and such are another story, and I have issue with it. But Ramsey paid for himself with where we are today as a University, vs what he took over.
Capone went down for tax evasion. If they want you, they'll get you.
If Ramsey was "crooked" (aka "criminal") as some so much want to say, SOMEBODY would be after him. FBI, IRS, SEC. Somebody
But they're not.
He's in a helluva lot better shape without UL, than UL is without him. Without him we are Cincinnati. Or Memphis. Mumble dicking around in Birmingham Bowls and hoping for a 5 seed.
But we're not. Thanks to him and TJ.
As far as I'm concerned, Ramsey was worth what he got. Now the secretaries and such are another story, and I have issue with it. But Ramsey paid for himself with where we are today as a University, vs what he took over.
Interesting comparison to Capone. Yes, they never proved he committed any crimes for all the money he had. They got him for not paying taxes on it after he “earned” it. Hopefully Ramsey has a better tax guy.
I worry about the sanity of many of our fans. I cannot imagine a rational and intelligent fan of U of L still defending Ramsey or saying that he wasn't at least extremely unethical in his handling of money in the Foundation. Just sad that people are more loyal to people like Pitino and Ramsey than the University.
I worry about the future of the human race when people's opinions are so easily manipulated by repeating the same falsehood over and over until certain sheeple "believe" it is true. Forming an opinion shouldn't be based on which conclusion you want to "believe" is true. You only believe talk that supports what you have pre-determined is the truth. That makes you non-objective, which is a very dangerous thing to be. And you aren't likely to consider anything in the following sentences because your bias is way to loud in your own head to objectively read something and consider the possibility you are indeed wrong. It is that very arrogance that will always haunt you. I bet you get really angry when someone corrects your spelling or grammar in a post or tweet, don't you? Sorry sweetheart, but you aren't right all the time. That's called being human. And this is one instance you are wrong, both factually and by malformed opinion.
Why are you so bothered by Ramsey compensating himself as trustee of the foundation? Have you ever managed a trust? Part of the responsibilities as trustee is to pay yourself for managing it. If you managed an account you were responsible with compensating yourself for, and that account grew exponentially by several hundred million - would you not be entitled to less than 1% commission on its net worth? I'm sure you don't "believe" that Ramsey or others were worth what they were being compensated with through the foundation - especially since some contributions to the foundation were specifically to be used to compensate those people (by direction of the donor) so that the University could provide a base salary (and not be burdened with the toll of performance compensation) and the foundation could compensate them based on performance objectives to ensure their career stability. Because, you know, those individuals... they didn't produce any results...
.Calling a spade a spade this has all been about jealousy. Jealousy over UofL's success, its progress, its position, its momentum and trajectory. UK alums hated it. The NBA-to-Louisville crew hated it. Ego-centric millionaires hated it. Frankfort hated it.
And YOU, so easily seduced and manipulated by their rhetoric allowed them in the door and are still chanting their battle cry to this day. Young fool who was duped. Don't worry, you aren't the first. Young men full of vigor have charged into death for the agendas of old men since the beginning of time.
Exactly how is it not loyal to the University to want the man who oversaw its renaissance to be in charge and compensated well - and not have that burden the responsibility of the University endowment which could be used for other things or other people's salaries? This was business done right, and legally.
We aren't talking about Pitino, so you can 86 that red herring and stay on subject.
I am nearly 63 years old, and was in undergraduate and graduate school at U of L between 1973 and 1981. There were less than 1000 people living on campus when I was a freshman, and to say the school bore no physical resemblance at all to where it is today would be an understatement of the highest order.
I also now live and work in rural Kentucky, and it is no misstatement at all to state that most people in the state do not care about U of L, and have no interest at all in the University succeeding, and would be just as happy if it failed, or even ceased to exist.
I may not approve of all the ways that Jim Ramsey and Tom Jurich operated, but I do know for an absolute fact that the physical changes that have occurred in the last 25 years, the athletic successes that have occurred in the same time frame, and the academic advances that have occurred would NOT have happened without their leadership.
As an alumnus, I am uninterested in going backwards in any of these arenas, and simply do not believe that the current BOT, or the current President have the firepower necessary to operate the University at this level.
Where we go next is anyone's guess....I want to do things honestly and well, but I am uninterested in going backwards. I sincerely hope we are able to get leadership who love the University and have rejoiced and suffered with it like I have had the privilege to do.
I also now live and work in rural Kentucky, and it is no misstatement at all to state that most people in the state do not care about U of L, and have no interest at all in the University succeeding, and would be just as happy if it failed, or even ceased to exist.
I may not approve of all the ways that Jim Ramsey and Tom Jurich operated, but I do know for an absolute fact that the physical changes that have occurred in the last 25 years, the athletic successes that have occurred in the same time frame, and the academic advances that have occurred would NOT have happened without their leadership.
As an alumnus, I am uninterested in going backwards in any of these arenas, and simply do not believe that the current BOT, or the current President have the firepower necessary to operate the University at this level.
Where we go next is anyone's guess....I want to do things honestly and well, but I am uninterested in going backwards. I sincerely hope we are able to get leadership who love the University and have rejoiced and suffered with it like I have had the privilege to do.
Do I really have to explain to you how being a trustee and then determining your own compensation to pay yourself with zero oversight out of the trust is a violation of your fiduciary obligations and self dealing and unethical at best and embezzlement and money laundering at worst? The charges against Ramsey are not capricious or speculation. They are established facts. If you think Ramsey should have been able to arbitrarily pay himself and his cronies with no oversight just because he thought he deserved it then I think the problem is really you and not me. But this is how the entire university functioned under Ramsey. Several major embezzlements within the University and an investigation by the US Secret Service resulting in a major criminal conviction was just one of many instances of Ramsey's negligence which took place while he was looting the Foundation.I worry about the future of the human race when people's opinions are so easily manipulated by repeating the same falsehood over and over until certain sheeple "believe" it is true. Forming an opinion shouldn't be based on which conclusion you want to "believe" is true. You only believe talk that supports what you have pre-determined is the truth. That makes you non-objective, which is a very dangerous thing to be. And you aren't likely to consider anything in the following sentences because your bias is way to loud in your own head to objectively read something and consider the possibility you are indeed wrong. It is that very arrogance that will always haunt you. I bet you get really angry when someone corrects your spelling or grammar in a post or tweet, don't you? Sorry sweetheart, but you aren't right all the time. That's called being human. And this is one instance you are wrong, both factually and by malformed opinion.
Why are you so bothered by Ramsey compensating himself as trustee of the foundation? Have you ever managed a trust? Part of the responsibilities as trustee is to pay yourself for managing it. If you managed an account you were responsible with compensating yourself for, and that account grew exponentially by several hundred million - would you not be entitled to less than 1% commission on its net worth? I'm sure you don't "believe" that Ramsey or others were worth what they were being compensated with through the foundation - especially since some contributions to the foundation were specifically to be used to compensate those people (by direction of the donor) so that the University could provide a base salary (and not be burdened with the toll of performance compensation) and the foundation could compensate them based on performance objectives to ensure their career stability. Because, you know, those individuals... they didn't produce any results...
Calling a spade a spade this has all been about jealousy. Jealousy over UofL's success, its progress, its position, its momentum and trajectory. UK alums hated it. The NBA-to-Louisville crew hated it. Ego-centric millionaires hated it. Frankfort hated it.
And YOU, so easily seduced and manipulated by their rhetoric allowed them in the door and are still chanting their battle cry to this day. Young fool who was duped. Don't worry, you aren't the first. Young men full of vigor have charged into death for the agendas of old men since the beginning of time.
Exactly how is it not loyal to the University to want the man who oversaw its renaissance to be in charge and compensated well - and not have that burden the responsibility of the University endowment which could be used for other things or other people's salaries? This was business done right, and legally.
We aren't talking about Pitino, so you can 86 that red herring and stay on subject.
Wow! So now, Ramsey is guilty of embezzlement and money laundering?What is your background that allows you to make these charges and what evidence do you have to back them up. I would think he would have been arrested and tried for such serious offenses if he had committed them.
No but you are guilty of poor reading comprehension and being a drama queen.
No you said his actions were “self-dealing and unethical at best, and embezzlement and money laundering at worst”. Your words. My comprehension is fine, and it is you who are the drama queen. Again, what's your background that let's you make this charge?
And yet you claimed I said he was guilty of embezzlement and money laundering. I have to assume English is a second language for you?
You'd fit right in in the White House. Are you claiming the words I supplied, inside the quotes, are not yours?
McCammon is a sports blogger, white collar crime specialist, wealth management advisor, political analyst, and really really bestest at distinguishing fact from opinion. We are so lucky for his expertise, experience and knowledgeable commentary.
I worry about people who don't read past headlines and accept someone else's opinion as their own. I worry about people who form opinions without having all the facts or, even worse, don't wanna know the facts. I worry when someone can't tell the difference between opinion and analysis. And in a free country, I worry when all of these get the same forum for discussion...
All of those on this post who say Ramsey and Jurich deserve to be fired need to get your head out of the sand. All you have to do is look around the university and see how we have grown. Look at where we are now, we went from a mid-major conference to the Big East from there to the ACC.
The current leadership is so incompetent they even screwed up with the firings of Jurich and Pitino. Now we stand to lose a bunch of money because of their actions. How many more costly mistakes are they going to make and how much more is it going to cost us.
I don't support the current administration including Tyra I don't want sUcK people running our program. When we went to Lessington this year to play sUcK in football ESPN asked Vince Tyra how did it feel to come back to Lessington as the AD for Louisville since he graduated from sUcK. He responded by saying it felt awkward. If he feels so uncomfortable hopefully he will step down so a permanent AD who is more comfortable can run our athletic department.
The current leadership is so incompetent they even screwed up with the firings of Jurich and Pitino. Now we stand to lose a bunch of money because of their actions. How many more costly mistakes are they going to make and how much more is it going to cost us.
I don't support the current administration including Tyra I don't want sUcK people running our program. When we went to Lessington this year to play sUcK in football ESPN asked Vince Tyra how did it feel to come back to Lessington as the AD for Louisville since he graduated from sUcK. He responded by saying it felt awkward. If he feels so uncomfortable hopefully he will step down so a permanent AD who is more comfortable can run our athletic department.
I am saying that in plain English the words of mine you quoted do not even remotely mean what you say they do, which is why I have to assume English is not your primary language or perhaps you just aren't very intelligent. If I say you are either a 50 IQ moron or an illegal Mexican, it in no way means you are guilty of illegally crossing the border but apparently, based on your rules of the English language, that is exactly what it means. My advice is cut your losses and move on to another thread.
LOL, you mad bro?
“I’m saying what I wrote doesn’t mean what it says!”
“If I say you are retarded or an illegal Mexican, it doesnt mean you are guilty of being an illegal, but you think that is what I am saying”
Do you even know what money laundering is or how it works? It is you who should probably move on, kiddo. Getting the last word in is not going to help you recover from this. You’re done. Take your racist undertones with you. Come back when you’ve grasped facts from opinion, some logic and an 8th-grade writing skill level. Buh-bye now.
Not made at all bro. Racist undertones? Is saying illegal Mexican racist? I didn't even know Mexicans were a race. Thanks for that tidbit. Are you one of the ones who lashed out at Ramsey for wearing a sombrero? I think we are starting to get at the root of your inability to comprehend plain English.
Your attempts to question one's grasp of the English language would be taken seriously if you managed to not misspell a three-letter word like "Mad".
I'll play your game. But your attempts to re-direct the debate you are losing mightily with a red herring is not gone unnoticed.
Mexican is a nationality. But ethnically, Mexicans are 99.9% Hispanic - which is, in fact, a race. Out of 195 separate nations on earth, and 7106 living languages spoken, you deduced that our mutual acquaintance must be an illegal Mexican - which would be nothing other than an assumption and an ignorant racial stereotype. Racial stereotypes aren't necessarily used exclusively by racists, but if one can jump to a conclusion based on an assumption, it is only reasonable that a similar conclusion or assumption can be made - hence the comment "racist undertones".
Now, back to the topic. Please explain to us intellectually inferior and illegal immigrants just how Ramsey's dealings (devoid of opinion on those dealings) might possibly be construed as "money laundering". This should be interesting.
I do wonder if you possess enough objectivity or self-awareness to realize how badly you are struggling to keep head-above-water in this conversation. A simple apology, mea culpa, or retraction may be your only option here. But that is highly unlikely given your lack of humility. No one is impressed with your persistence - except you. Congratulations on gratifying yourself. You should be proud.
There are by any reasonable estimate probably 15-30 million illegal Mexicans in the United States today. Why would you say it is racist to just use the term illegal Mexican, in an example context, as if that is an unusual concept or idea? Weird.
Still waiting on your explaination on money laundering. Keep trying to deflect, little fella. Your argument weakens with every attempt.
Dude you have not made one rational point. No one said Ramsey was convicted of money laundering but what he did in conjunction with removing funds from the Foundation for his personal use, is not unlike money laundering. You can say Ramsey did great things here, but don't try and pretend he did nothing improper in his dealings with the Foundation. It just makes you look silly.
No one said that you said he was convicted of money laundering. But you are implying here that he did engage in money laundering. Do you know what money laundering is, or how it works? It is a process of moving money from one account to another to another to hide the source. If a donor contributes to the foundation and specifies to Ramsey that it is to be used to compensate Jurich, or Ramsey, and Ramsey compensates himself then uses that money for personal investments, that is not money laundering. If Ramsey takes money out of the foundation in his capacity as trustee, to invest to grow the principle - that is not money laundering. That is investing and fulfilling his role as trustee.
You make accusations and assumptions with no factual data or examples, and obviously have little understanding of the nature of the crimes you are implying were committed, and you think I look silly? How come no one is backing you up on this? Why have you provided not one single actual example of evidence?
In summary, what you are saying is that since there is no evidence that has been uncovered by a state auditor to any crime committed, it doesn't matter to you because you "believe" Ramsey was corrupt, and that is what you want to believe. Excellent rationalization. That logic will serve you well.
No illegal activity but absolutely many transactions that fall in the gray area. Otherwise he would still be here if he didn't. To label Ramsey as negligent is laughable......He knew exactly what he was doing....it was a calculated fraud that he and his cronies pulled off..........
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