Charlie Freakin Brown...

[ShortCreek]

This team makes me feel like Charlie Brown. I'm Charlie, the Cards are Lucy! They keep yanking that football away from me.

Quick observations:

* Talent is lacking to beat the big boys this season
* Again our depth is a killer
* Our team has terribly low basketball IQ
* Too many empty possessions without so much as a field goal attempt
* Fall in love all you want with Nwora's stat line but I am frustrated by him. He is a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm also fairly certain that two huge offensive rebounds by Virginia around the 6-8 min mark were due to him not blocking out. He's also a lazy defender. He easily gives back half his points most games IMO.

Gawd, I cannot stand Virginia. We'll get them soon.

 

[nccardfan]

This team makes me feel like Charlie Brown. I'm Charlie, the Cards are Lucy! They keep yanking that football away from me.

Quick observations:

* Talent is lacking to beat the big boys this season
* Again our depth is a killer
* Our team has a low basketball IQ
* Too many empty possessions without so much as a field goal attempt
* Fall in love all you want with Nwora's stat line but I am frustrated by him. He is a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm also fairly certain that two huge offensive rebounds by Virginia around the 6-8 min mark were due to him not blocking out. He's also a lazy defender. He easily gives back half his points most games IMO.

Gawd, I cannot stand Virginia. We'll get them soon.

Yep, you’re a blockhead, Charlie Brown. Cards played with heart and toughness today. Wasn’t a lack of talent. Did make a few bad turnovers down the stretch. That’s what good teams do to you. Great effort. Need to bring it again on Wednesday.

 

[KerryRhodes]

Im at work, was working during the game and 3 SuCkS fans were like, yall are leading. Yall are going to win.

I told him no they weret.

Cards dont have the horses to beat Virginny-this season !

 

[ShortCreek]

Yep, you’re a blockhead, Charlie Brown. Cards played with heart and toughness today. Wasn’t a lack of talent. Did make a few bad turnovers down the stretch. That’s what good teams do to you. Great effort. Need to bring it again on Wednesday.

Wasn't lack of talent??? Now that's funny. We don't have one player that could start for Virginia, not one. The stretch four big (Jay Huff) that plays only about 11 min a game is every bit as good as Malik Williams who starts for us.

I'll beg to differ and stick by my prediction that Sutton will be the only current starter that starts next year. That's how much talent we currently have! I hope Nwora proves me wrong but if he's driving me nuts with his lackadaisical defense and unwillingness to block out I know Mack is frustrated as hell with him!

 

[CardsFirst]

This team makes me feel like Charlie Brown. I'm Charlie, the Cards are Lucy! They keep yanking that football away from me.

Quick observations:

* Talent is lacking to beat the big boys this season
* Again our depth is a killer
* Our team has terribly low basketball IQ
* Too many empty possessions without so much as a field goal attempt
* Fall in love all you want with Nwora's stat line but I am frustrated by him. He is a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm also fairly certain that two huge offensive rebounds by Virginia around the 6-8 min mark were due to him not blocking out. He's also a lazy defender. He easily gives back half his points most games IMO.

Gawd, I cannot stand Virginia. We'll get them soon.

No argument from me about Nwora. If he dribbles more than once he’ll lose it. As I mentioned before sometimes he doesn’t pay attention and literally throws it to a defender. Drives me nuts.

 

[CardsFirst]

This team makes me feel like Charlie Brown. I'm Charlie, the Cards are Lucy! They keep yanking that football away from me.

Quick observations:

* Talent is lacking to beat the big boys this season
* Again our depth is a killer
* Our team has a low basketball IQ
* Too many empty possessions without so much as a field goal attempt
* Fall in love all you want with Nwora's stat line but I am frustrated by him. He is a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor. I'm also fairly certain that two huge offensive rebounds by Virginia around the 6-8 min mark were due to him not blocking out. He's also a lazy defender. He easily gives back half his points most games IMO.

Gawd, I cannot stand Virginia. We'll get them soon.

Yep, you’re a blockhead, Charlie Brown. Cards played with heart and toughness today. Wasn’t a lack of talent. Did make a few bad turnovers down the stretch. That’s what good teams do to you. Great effort. Need to bring it again on Wednesday.

We don’t have the talent. Mack has done a great job with this patch worked team. We always as of late make bad turnovers down the stretch. And the reason that a good team like UVA did this to us is because they have more talent.

 

[zipp]

No one needs to worry about Nwora next year. He gone...

 

[gocds]

No one needs to worry about Nwora next year. He gone...

I don’t think so. He’s not ready and his own dad will tell him that. Unless, of course, he’s ready for bus rides from city to city in the “minor nba leagues”. What Nwora really needs to do is to have a heart to heart with Darrell Griffith about what he went through to improve his game before his senior year.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[CardVille]

Nwora is not NBA ready so he will be back or will be in D-League.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

A lot of rooks spend time in the D league, even 1st round picks.

The NBA is so deep right now, if you glance over some D league rosters you'll be blown away by how good the players are there.

 

[nccardfan]

I am tired of the no talent comment. We beat Mich st., UNC at Chapel Hill, had Duke beat... that wasn’t just Mack’s coaching. You can’t have it both ways and since the coach doesn’t play, I think it has more to do about the players. That’s what separate college from professional sports. If you play with heart, hustle and as a team, you can overcome individual performances.

 

[zipp]

I am tired of the no talent comment. We beat Mich st., UNC at Chapel Hill, had Duke beat... that wasn’t just Mack’s coaching. You can’t have it both ways and since the coach doesn’t play, I think it has more to do about the players. That’s what separate college from professional sports. If you play with heart, hustle and as a team, you can overcome individual performances.

I'm not sure how much to assign to coach and players, but this team was NOT devoid of talent. IMO that's why it overachieved this year. I was already assuming Mack was a good coach when I predicted we would miss the tourney...

 

[zipp]

Nwora is not NBA ready so he will be back or will be in D-League.

The issue of him coming back won't be decided by whether Nwora is "ready". It's whether he THINKS he's ready or is as good as he's gonna get as a college player.

If anyone knows what's going on between his ears, you have the answer for sure. None of us do...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I'm not sure how much to assign to coach and players, but this team was NOT devoid of talent.

No team, or very few teams at this level are devoid of talent. But saying the team is NOT void of talent doesn't tell the story about the inability to bridge the GAP in talent compared to other high end programs.

The team's starting guards are guys nobody wanted out of HS - so relatively speaking, or, context of comparing to other high end programs.... when stacked up against ACC guards that are high end 4 and 5 star players turning pro early - example being those UNC Guards that everybody wanted that UofL somehow destroyed in Chapel Hill, you have to admit there is a discrepancy in talent there. It's not that CC and Fore have NO talent, they just don't have Colby White and Kenny Williams talent.


Long story short talent isn't everything. There's a lot that goes into it - including timing of when teams play, coaching ability, experience of players, and how rosters are looking physically and mentally at those times - just to name a few variables. There are also outliers/anomalies when reviewing results. I.E. - Wins vs UNC/Mich St - losses vs BC/Pitt. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Oh, and results are determined by match-ups obviously also. Cards just match-up with some teams better than others.

Which for these guys, our guys... translates to something between a 7-11 seed in the NCAAs.

 

[nccardfan]

I'm not sure how much to assign to coach and players, but this team was NOT devoid of talent. IMO that's why it overachieved this year. I was already assuming Mack was a good coach when I predicted we would miss the tourney...

The rhetoric is when we lose it’s because we don’t have talent and when we win it’s because we got a great coach. Somewhere in between, I think, because of the inability to hold leads in games that you have double digit leads has to be attributed partly to the coaching staff either in preparation or not making in game adjustments. Hopefully we have learned a lot about ourselves and make a great postseason run.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The issue of him coming back won't be decided by whether Nwora is "ready". It's whether he THINKS he's ready or is as good as he's gonna get as a college player.

If anyone knows what's going on between his ears, you have the answer for sure. None of us do...

It's also not just about if they think they are ready but more of, they just don't want to be in college anymore. Some of them go pro knowing they probably won't be drafted. They are just ready to earn a paycheck in some way using their basketball skills.

 

[nccardfan]

No team, or very few teams at this level are devoid of talent. But saying the team is NOT void of talent doesn't tell the story about the inability to bridge the GAP in talent compared to other high end programs.

The team's starting guards are guys nobody wanted out of HS - so relatively speaking, or, context of comparing to other high end programs.... when stacked up against ACC guards that are high end 4 and 5 star players turning pro early - example being those UNC Guards that everybody wanted that UofL somehow destroyed in Chapel Hill, you have to admit there is a discrepancy in talent there.


Long story short talent isn't everything. There's a lot that goes into it - including timing of when teams play, coaching ability, experience of players, and how rosters are looking physically and mentally at those times - just to name a few variables. There are also outliers/anomalies when reviewing results. I.E. - Wins vs UNC/Mich St - losses vs BC/Pitt. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Which for these guys, our guys... translates to something between a 7-11 seed in the NCAAs.

Yeah I get it you want 5 star players like Duke and UK and when you lose you don’t have enough talent, right? Who cares nobody wanted CC and Fore? They’re 5th seniors with so much experience they can overshadow or at least match up with most of the teams we face. We are never or we haven’t yet ever matched up player for player in so called talent ratings to UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas and probably Arizona. But hell, we got banners and championships don’t we?
Here’s a question for you, who had the most talent, Duke or U of L in 86?

 

[Cardiac Red]

This team has talent, they're either just not basketball smart or lack the will to win or not to get beat however you want to look at it.

Mack has done a great job to get what hes got out of this group..

 

[gocds]

This team has talent, they're either just not basketball smart or lack the will to win or not to get beat however you want to look at it.

Mack has done a great job to get what hes got out of this group..

Other than the grad transfers they are a young basketball team. Mostly sophomores.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[Cue Card]

We got talent and a very good coach. We don't have superior talent, and we may not have superior coaching, because the jury is still out on that IMO.

Coach Chris Mack is a fine basketball coach and I'm damn happy he's at UofL now, but until he actually wins some championships (conference or national), we can't label him as superior. Not IMO. I am beyond confident he will win championships at UofL. No doubt in my mind. The only variable is time.

 

[ShortCreek]

Teams with “talent” don’t lose to a total trash of a team such as Boston College. OP stated “lacks talent to beat the big boys.” I said name a starter the Cards have that could start for Virginia and you (see above) didn’t. I said Huff is as good as Malik and you don’t dispute that. Yet Huff plays about 11 min a game for Virginia and Malik starts for us, and it’s not talent?

Stay in denial all you want, the Louisville program was built with teams that had much more talent than this year’s group. Therefore, my point is proved - the truth hurts!

 

[Cue Card]

Teams with “talent” don’t lose to a total trash of a team such as Boston College.

Happens all the time. 16-15 Texas beat North Carolina. Does North Carolina have talent? I can promise you Texas is a 'total trash of a team' this year. The Longhorns lost games to Radford, VCU, Providence, and Georgia yet beat a far superior team who had more talent when they beat UNC. That's just one example of a superior talented team getting beat by a less talented team. It's called upsets. Happens each and every year.

 

[nccardfan]

Teams with “talent” don’t lose to a total trash of a team such as Boston College. OP stated “lacks talent to beat the big boys.” I said name a starter the Cards have that could start for Virginia and you (see above) didn’t. I said Huff is as good as Malik and you don’t dispute that. Yet Huff plays about 11 min a game for Virginia and Malik starts for us, and it’s not talent?

Stay in denial all you want, the Louisville program was built with teams that had much more talent than this year’s group. Therefore, my point is proved - the truth hurts!

Hell, if I were looking at from the other side, based on several fans talking about our own players not being wanted by anyone or some fans wanting players to pack their bag, UNC could probably ask themselves “how did we lose to that trash team?”
That’s what you’re saying, but of course I don’t consider us to be a “trash” team.

 

[ShortCreek]

We’re going to the tourney, is BC? Don’t think so. Enough said.

 

[zipp]

In a discussion of "talent", I like to reference a pretty good team that we're familiar with...

2012-13 roster: Smith, Siva, Ware, Dieng, Hancock, Henderson, Blackshear, Behanan, Harrell, and Van Treese - avg Rivals stars 3.50

2018-19 roster: Nwora, Sutton, Cunningham, Enoch, Williams, McMahon, Perry, King, Fore, and Agau - avg Rivals stars 3.30

I can overlay experience onto the rosters, but without calculating, I'll bet the 18-19 roster kids are also older...

 

[gocds]

In a discussion of "talent", I like to reference a pretty good team that we're familiar with...

2012-13 roster: Smith, Siva, Ware, Dieng, Hancock, Henderson, Blackshear, Behanan, Harrell, and Van Treese - avg Rivals stars 3.50

2018-19 roster: Nwora, Sutton, Cunningham, Enoch, Williams, McMahon, Perry, King, Fore, and Agau - avg Rivals stars 3.30

I can overlay experience onto the rosters, but without calculating, I'll bet the 18-19 roster kids are also older...

Well the “older” comment is because we have three grad transfers. Other than those three we have to be younger than the 2012-13 roster. From a talent perspective this team is simply not as talented as the 2012-13 group. Maybe the numbers are skewed a bit and I suggest you have a “redo” without the 3 grad transfer guys.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

In a discussion of "talent", I like to reference a pretty good team that we're familiar with...

2012-13 roster: Smith, Siva, Ware, Dieng, Hancock, Henderson, Blackshear, Behanan, Harrell, and Van Treese - avg Rivals stars 3.50

2018-19 roster: Nwora, Sutton, Cunningham, Enoch, Williams, McMahon, Perry, King, Fore, and Agau - avg Rivals stars 3.30

I can overlay experience onto the rosters, but without calculating, I'll bet the 18-19 roster kids are also older...

I'm not 100% sure what all the transfer rankings are/were or how you are calculating those. Or, how you're deciding who to list as part of the rosters either. You've conveniently listed a walk on for the 2012-2013 roster that got 0 stars and that played 3 MPG on the year, I'm sure giggling from ear to ear when you "calculated" that 0 into the rivals star rankings. I know, I know, Wichita!

I also know that you left off a 4 star Price from the 2012-2013 roster for reasons only you can explain. I'm sure Mrs. Price would object to you doing that. Answer to her, not me bub!

The 2012 team had seven 4stars and one 5star.
The 2018 team has five 4stars (broken down Akoy as one) and one 5star.

Is that the same thing? Maybe close enough? I'd say maybe no but okay if you think so?

I'm also not sure we can say the Akoy for this year's team's 4star HS ranking means much when the guy can hardly run up and down the court due to injuries? He could have been the #1 overall player in the country but with the knees he now has he is nothing more than a mentor?

Now we're kind of splitting hairs, kind of.

None of the answers to some of my questions really matter, or whatever counter points one might have. And I mean that, they don't. Because I'm not engaging in a debate or anything. There is no ref around here to keep score anyway!

The preseason rankings tell us what we should have expected for both teams. The 2012 team received 20 1st place votes and was #2 in the country. The 2018 team was picked to finish 11th in the ACC.

I am very happy with both teams!!!!

 

[Cardiac Red]

Well the “older” comment is because we have three grad transfers.

Not to mention Agou is like 30 years old...

 

[ShortCreek]

In a discussion of "talent", I like to reference a pretty good team that we're familiar with...

2012-13 roster: Smith, Siva, Ware, Dieng, Hancock, Henderson, Blackshear, Behanan, Harrell, and Van Treese - avg Rivals stars 3.50

2018-19 roster: Nwora, Sutton, Cunningham, Enoch, Williams, McMahon, Perry, King, Fore, and Agau - avg Rivals stars 3.30

I can overlay experience onto the rosters, but without calculating, I'll bet the 18-19 roster kids are also older...

Spin doctor alert. Spare me.

 

[zipp]

Well the “older” comment is because we have three grad transfers. Other than those three we have to be younger than the 2012-13 roster. From a talent perspective this team is simply not as talented as the 2012-13 group. Maybe the numbers are skewed a bit and I suggest you have a “redo” without the 3 grad transfer guys...

The 2012-13 roster had transfers too. And if I remove the three grad transfers (avg 2.67 stars) from the 2018-19 roster, the talent is about equal...

 

[ShortCreek]

Projected talent (recruiting stars) and true college level talent once they’re here (see VJ, Perry, etc.) is apples vs oranges. Contrarian BS never ends.

 

[zipp]

I'm not 100% sure what all the transfer rankings are/were or how you are calculating those. Or, how you're deciding who to list as part of the rosters either. You've conveniently listed a walk on for the 2012-2013 roster that got 0 stars and that played 3 MPG on the year, I'm sure giggling from ear to ear when you "calculated" that 0 into the rivals star rankings. I know, I know, Wichita!

I also know that you left off a 4 star Price from the 2012-2013 roster for reasons only you can explain. I'm sure Mrs. Price would object to you doing that. Answer to her, not me bub!

The 2012 team had seven 4stars and one 5star.
The 2018 team has five 4stars (broken down Akoy as one) and one 5star.

Is that the same thing? Maybe close enough? I'd say maybe no but okay if you think so?

I'm also not sure we can say the Akoy for this year's team's 4star HS ranking means much when the guy can hardly run up and down the court due to injuries? He could have been the #1 overall player in the country but with the knees he now has he is nothing more than a mentor?

Now we're kind of splitting hairs, kind of.

None of the answers to some of my questions really matter, or whatever counter points one might have. And I mean that, they don't. Because I'm not engaging in a debate or anything. There is no ref around here to keep score anyway!

The preseason rankings tell us what we should have expected for both teams. The 2012 team received 20 1st place votes and was #2 in the country. The 2018 team was picked to finish 11th in the ACC.

I am very happy with both teams!!!!

Good questions, and I wasn't getting into the weeds on the math unless asked...

All star ratings are based on ranking (or not) as high school seniors.

The low ranked/unranked/walk-ons were each given two stars which Rivals usually does after the fact. That list is Hancock, Henderson, Sutton, Cunningham, McMahon, and Fore. I doubt anyone would argue with that when these kids came outta high school--most were unranked.

As far as Price, he really didn't get any quality PT that I recall that year. And that left each list at ten players. No problem if you wanna add him to make 11. His inclusion would raise the average for 2012-13 by 0.045 star.

And it's not an issue of preseason expectations. The 2012-13 squad had lofty expectations because of something BESIDES talent, namely, its performance the year before (Final Four) vs. this year (NIT). I'm addressing the arguments about talent...

 

[zipp]

Spin doctor alert. Spare me.

Another data free post...

 

[zipp]

Projected talent (recruiting stars) and true college level talent once they’re here (see VJ, Perry, etc.) is apples vs oranges. Contrarian BS never ends.

The argument about talent is blurred once the collegiate experience starts. You can't discriminate anymore once other variables like coaching, physical development, and learning have their effects.

If you wanna change the narrative from talent, fine. But that's not gonna work for you because it says that those factors benefited the 2012-13 team much more than they did this past year's team. And if talent deficiency is your alibi for Mack or this team's performance, you don't wanna go down that road...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Good questions, and I wasn't getting into the weeds on the math unless asked...

All star ratings are based on ranking (or not) as high school seniors.

The low ranked/unranked/walk-ons were each given two stars which Rivals usually does after the fact. That list is Hancock, Henderson, Sutton, Cunningham, McMahon, and Fore. I doubt anyone would argue with that when these kids came outta high school--most were unranked.

As far as Price, he really didn't get any quality PT that I recall that year. And that left each list at ten players. No problem if you wanna add him to make 11. His inclusion would raise the average for 2012-13 by 0.045 star.

And it's not an issue of preseason expectations. The 2012-13 squad had lofty expectations because of something BESIDES talent, namely, its performance the year before (Final Four) vs. this year (NIT). I'm addressing the arguments about talent...

Price started the first game vs Duke when Dieng was hurt, and Rick gave him many chances early in the season. He played 8mpg.

If you want an accurate comparison of talent when comparing 2012 vs 2018 just take top 10 or top12 players of min played from each team. That would give both teams 2 walk ons or 0 walk ons in the analysis. Right now using 1 walk on for 2012 and 0 walk ons for 2018 may skew these #s.

Does this team have talent? Some. Clearly unbiased outsiders didnt think they had that much in preseason evaluations.

 

[ShortCreek]

The argument about talent is blurred once the collegiate experience starts. You can't discriminate anymore once other variables like coaching, physical development, and learning have their effects.

If you wanna change the narrative from talent, fine. But that's not gonna work for you because it says that those factors benefited the 2012-13 team much more than they did this past year's team. And if talent deficiency is your alibi for Mack or this team's performance, you don't wanna go down that road...

Blah, blah...blah, blah, blah...pompous big shot message board guy...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

And it's not an issue of preseason expectations. The 2012-13 squad had lofty expectations because of something BESIDES talent, namely, its performance the year before (Final Four) vs. this year (NIT). I'm addressing the arguments about talent...

Chicken vs the egg lol ... The team that went to the FF returned 4 star talent and added burger boys.

Preseason rankings are based on perception of talent on a team. If they they weren't, teams with all the OAD would be unranked preseason. But, they are always ranked, and ranked highly. Because of their talent.

Unbiased voters thought the talent on this team was subpar, and they returned very little from a bad team. If outsiders thought there was talent here, they would have received better pre season grades.

 

[nccardfan]

Chicken vs the egg lol ... The team that went to the FF returned 4 star talent and added burger boys.

Preseason rankings are based on perception of talent on a team. If they they weren't, teams with all the OAD would be unranked preseason. But, they are always ranked, and ranked highly. Because of their talent.

Unbiased voters thought the talent on this team was subpar, and they returned very little from a bad team. If outsiders thought there was talent here, they would have received better pre season grades.

They’re not unbiased. They knew Pitino was gone and as usual since we’re not Duke, UK, Kansas or UNC, nobody seriously gave us consideration. Especially some of our fans. Nobody knew anything about CC and Fore and just today during the N.C. state game, one of the announcers raves about CC. Plus Mack didn’t bring in a high profile recruit or transfer (I hoped he at least bring someone from Xavier) but that didn’t happened. Consequently we got no love but mainly because voters didn’t spend the time to research.

U of L - lost Spalding, Snider and Adel. Mack a great coach in a few years brought in nobody, hence a mediocre season.

 

[zipp]

The talent apologists want their cake and eat it too. If you're not evaluating "talent" at the time of recruitment, then coaching and player development the prior season(s) play a role in what you have coming into each year.

So if you wanna be perceived as a good coach, it helps by succeeding a guy like Padgett who's limited in what he could do as far as player development. Not only can that not be quantified, it gives just about any new coach a pass coming into a problem situation. "Poor guy, look what he inherited!"

Mack did a good job this year because he's a good coach. When he does a great job, it will be be because he's improved to that level...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Unbiased voters tagged this crew to be garbage. Fact. They were wrong. Fact 2.

Next.