Big 12 Officially Adds UCF, UC, BYU and Houston.

[EKYCard643]

Am I the only one who doesn't really get this?

I mean I get that it technically keeps the conference alive and cements the Big 12 as the 5th best conference but I can't imagine this actually lasts. Adding those 4 schools to me - only furthers the idea that you're not a major conference. I would bet this is a bandaide and once Texas and Oklahoma officially leave this conference will fall apart.

I can't imagine WVU, ISU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State or Baylor are going to sit around settle for being in a conference thats consistently disrespected and viewed as well behind the other 4 major conferences.

 

[CardX]

They had no other option than to fold. They now expand their footprint into Ohio and Florida, and further out west. I'm kind of happy for UC. Them getting left behind didn't seem right. Memphis is now like "maybe next time."

 

[EKYCard643]

I guess if the schools like WVU, Baylor, TTech, OSU etc couldn't get any major conference to extend them an invitation is makes sense but I just can't imagine those schools won't be working feverishly to get out of this conference as quickly as possible. All this does is ensure the Big 12 will be the top "non major" conference and now we'll have to hear about how an undefeated or 1 loss Big 12 team deserves to be in over a 2 loss Big 10, SEC or ACC team.

So the Big 12 is the new slightly better AAC.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I guess if the schools like WVU, Baylor, TTech, OSU etc couldn't get any major conference to extend them an invitation is makes sense but I just can't imagine those schools won't be working feverishly to get out of this conference as quickly as possible. All this does is ensure the Big 12 will be the top "non major" conference and now we'll have to hear about how an undefeated or 1 loss Big 12 team deserves to be in over a 2 loss Big 10, SEC or ACC team.

So the Big 12 is the new slightly better AAC.

I'd say it's a way better version of the old Big East we were in back in 2005-2012. Solid programs and it's closer to the ACC than the AAC. And honestly, if you take out Clemson then I'd say their conference would be much tougher. I mean looking at the comparison below, it's only not going to be a power league because it doesn't have 1 big brand name team like a Clemson, Texas, OU, ND, USC, etc. But their quality top to bottom is a power league.

Old Big East: Louisville, WVU, Cincy, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, Cuse, Temple, S. Florida

AAC: Cincy, Houston, UCF, Memphis, Temple, USF, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, ECU

New Big 12: Ok State, Baylor, Iowa State, TCU, WVU, TTU, Kansas State, Cincy, Houston, UCF, BYU, Kansas

ACC : Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, VT, Louisvile, UVA, BC, Pitt, NCSU, Wake, Pitt, Duke, GT

Pac12: USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Wash State, AZ, AZ State, UCLA, Colorado, Utah, Cal, Oregon St.

I mean to be honest, say Ok State goes undefeated in that new league vs. Clemson going undefeated in the ACC, what would be a more impressive schedule? I mean say Ok State beats Oklahoma and goes undefeated, that's easily a schedule worthy of a playoff spot.

The quality of the league isn't why they'll leave, it's all about $$$$$$. None of those teams will make the TV networks pay much money as they aren't large national draws.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I am glad they expanded and hope they last long enough to force Texas and Oklahoma to pay that 400 million dollar GOR penalty for leaving the conference. Texas, Oklahoma and ESPN thought the conference would fail and they wouldn’t have to pay it. I am also glad we are where we are and not in the new Big 12 and if anyone should feel bad it would have to be Memphis. They appear to be the red headed step child when it comes to conference expansion.
This move really weakens the AAC I guess they will have to expand and the only teams remaining are the CUSA teams. Poor Memphis will be going back in time back to CUSA, to me this is poetic justice. I love watching their fan base suffer and talk about how things used to be.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Unpopular opinion - the Big 12 with those four schools is a better football conference than the ACC {I will now duck and cover}

 

[EKYCard643]

I think schools will leave because of 2 reasons: perception and money.

The new Big 12 is going to be the step-child league and I'm not sure what contracts were in place for these remaining schools as far as revenue sharing and tv deals but one would have to assume that the remaining schools are looking at SIGNIFICANTLY less money now. The new Big 12 has no brand and no program to hang their hat on.

Also, I would expect all of the schools they just added to take a decent step back. Cincinnati's schedule is going to increase in difficulty significantly. CBS ranks all 130 teams, if we give UC the same schedule that say WVU plays this year but we swap out Oklahoma and Texas for BYU and Houston (Cincy already plays UCF) then their SoS jumps drastically.

Cincy's current conference schedule is ranked by CBS as: 119, 20, 112, 67, 114, 123, 51, 91. If we gave them WVUs schedule it would be ranked: 47, 58, 30, 9, 32, 34, 117, 76, 39.

So this idea that the Big 12 is adding AAC versions of UCF and Cincy isn't true. Both of those schools are going to settle back down into mediocrity and struggle to get footing much the same way we have in ACC.

This current Big 12 has WVU struggling, 4 new schools taking a significant jump in competition, Baylor with a new coach, Texas Tech trying to get their feet back under them with a new coach and TCU/OSU both trying to become relevant again and Iowa State being their best school with a coach that seems destined to leave at some point in the very near future.

 

[Mayoman]

So this idea that the Big 12 is adding AAC versions of UCF and Cincy isn't true. Both of those schools are going to settle back down into mediocrity and struggle to get footing much the same way we have in ACC.

A big difference that UCF and Cincy have over UofL is that they are located in much better recruiting grounds than we are. Their P5 status will become even more attractive to the players in their areas and logically will be able to recruit better players because of it. Puts them on a more level playing field than their current AAC/Indy status does. Houston being in fertile Texas speaks to itself on this issue.

This fact very well will help them not struggle like UofL has. Sad to say for us but that is what I see for them.

 

[EKYCard643]

A big difference that UCF and Cincy have over UofL is that they are located in much better recruiting grounds than we are. Their P5 status will become even more attractive to the players in their areas and logically will be able to recruit better players because of it. Puts them on a more level playing field than their current AAC/Indy status does. Houston being in fertile Texas speaks to itself on this issue.

This fact very well will help them not struggle like UofL has. Sad to say for us but that is what I see for them.

I'm not sure this new version of the Big 12 is going to be viewed as much more attractive though. Obviously its better than the AAC but without UT and OK its not even remotely the same. I don't think kids in Cincy's recruiting footprint dream of playing in Waco or Stillwater or Provo Utah or in Ames Iowa. This is only relevant to Cincy and UCF specifically though. I just can't see the idea of playing in Waco Texas or playing TCU as much of a selling point to anyone considering going to UCF.

The Big 12 has been lagging behind the SEC, Big 10 and ACC for years now and I just don't think that name carries as much weight as some think. Plus I'm not sure what the new TV deal is going to look like with this new Big 12 or what their revenue sharing is going to amount to.

Its all about perception and this version of the Big 12 is very much going to be perceived and talked about like its a tier below the other 4 major conferences. Yes its got better schools than the current AAC but its still going to be perceived as not being on the same level as the SEC, BIG10, ACC, Pac 12.

 

[billoliver40]

Didnt figure on BYU. Thought it would be Memphis.
Guess the 20 team Pac 12 idea didnt fly.

 

[EKYCard643]

In 2020 even with Texas and Oklahoma the Big 12 generated nearly $100 million less than the nearest conference - the ACC. This also doesn't include the fact that they're losing far and away their two biggest revenue generating schools and adding 4 more mouths to feed. So the pot is shrinking significantly and you're going to split it two more ways. I've read articles that estimate that revenue distribution will be down anywhere between conservatively $14 million to $25 million.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I'm not sure this new version of the Big 12 is going to be viewed as much more attractive though. Obviously its better than the AAC but without UT and OK its not even remotely the same. I don't think kids in Cincy's recruiting footprint dream of playing in Waco or Stillwater or Provo Utah or in Ames Iowa. This is only relevant to Cincy and UCF specifically though. I just can't see the idea of playing in Waco Texas or playing TCU as much of a selling point to anyone considering going to UCF.

The Big 12 has been lagging behind the SEC, Big 10 and ACC for years now and I just don't think that name carries as much weight as some think. Plus I'm not sure what the new TV deal is going to look like with this new Big 12 or what their revenue sharing is going to amount to.

Its all about perception and this version of the Big 12 is very much going to be perceived and talked about like its a tier below the other 4 major conferences. Yes its got better schools than the current AAC but its still going to be perceived as not being on the same level as the SEC, BIG10, ACC, Pac 12.

I read where the current AAC teams get $7 million per school for TV money. They estimate that they'll now be getting $25-$30 million per school in the next TV contract. So when you say it's not going to be more attractive, that extra $20 million they'll be getting will buy them better facilities & coaches. UCF is in Orlando Florida, all kinds of recruits all around them. They have a large enrollment and they also have a legit coach in Malzahn.

In all honesty, the only reason I love the ACC now is for the money, but in reality Clemson & FSU are the premier teams and then Miami and Va Tech behind them are the only ones with a chance to even dream about a title. Honestly, I'd love that new Big 12 more because we'd have our rivalry games back with WVU & Cincy. I hated UCF and would love to beat them yearly. The Texas teams of Tech, Baylor, TCU, and Houston plus OK State just excite me more than say BC, Wake, Cuse, and UVA. We'd lose Duke/UNC in basketball, but could have a rivalry with Kansas and Baylor.

And with the playoffs more than likely going to 12 teams ($$$$ will make it happen), that league will still matter and the champion of that league will make the playoffs. That league would be more fun to me AS A FAN, but then again the ACC has Clemson and the money for now so we have to stay and I understand.

 

[Mayoman]

I'm not sure this new version of the Big 12 is going to be viewed as much more attractive though. Obviously its better than the AAC but without UT and OK its not even remotely the same. I don't think kids in Cincy's recruiting footprint dream of playing in Waco or Stillwater or Provo Utah or in Ames Iowa. This is only relevant to Cincy and UCF specifically though. I just can't see the idea of playing in Waco Texas or playing TCU as much of a selling point to anyone considering going to UCF.

The Big 12 has been lagging behind the SEC, Big 10 and ACC for years now and I just don't think that name carries as much weight as some think. Plus I'm not sure what the new TV deal is going to look like with this new Big 12 or what their revenue sharing is going to amount to.

Its all about perception and this version of the Big 12 is very much going to be perceived and talked about like its a tier below the other 4 major conferences. Yes its got better schools than the current AAC but its still going to be perceived as not being on the same level as the SEC, BIG10, ACC, Pac 12.

Unless the league is demoted out of the P5, it will still be a P5 league. P5 > AAC G5, that is the reality. The B12 is already the 4th or 5th best (perceived) conference as it is so SO WHAT?

They lose Norman OK and Austin TX and gain Orlando, Cincy, Provo (and Mormons nation wide) and Houston, TX which has more population than Austin will ever have. SO. SO WHAT? More TV Viewer eyeballs than before and UT has been down for so long looking up that what do they matter in the grand scheme of perception?

Your subjective perception is just that....perception. IF the CFB play off remains at 4....then being in a P5 conference affords the opportunity for those teams/leagues and players to get to the CFBPO vs spitting in the wind being in a G5 league. Simple as that. Where the games are played is irrelevant as the TV ESPN/CBS/ABC/Fox broadcasts are done regardless of location and overcomes geography in this matter. HS players know that and know they will be seen playing in the new B12/P5 vs the G5.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Unpopular opinion - the Big 12 with those four schools is a better football conference than the ACC {I will now duck and cover}

I mean, depth wise it certainly is right now. There's no Clemson over there, but the ACC was never great and has gotten worse and worse. Some of these teams/programs are simply awful.

 

[CardX]

I mean, depth wise it certainly is right now. There's no Clemson over there, but the ACC was never great and has gotten worse and worse. Some of these teams/programs are simply awful.

It doesn’t feel great the ACC has been awful, and the Cards have been equally worse.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

It doesn’t feel great the ACC has been awful, and the Cards have been equally worse.

I think this league looks so much better obviously when Louisville is up, and obviously FSU. FSU showed some life opening night, I just don't know where the Cards are right now.

Louisville vs Clemson prime time game with Quick stepping out of bounds is not that long ago.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I like the ACC overall with all the sports being taken into consideration and I like the location of the schools better. It hasn’t been that long since we had a good football team so there is still time for us to recover. we are not that far removed like Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska and others. Moving to a new conference is no guarantee that you will recruit better and have a better program, it seems like once you join a conference outside of your region your recruiting suffers it doesn’t improve.

 

[CommodoreCard]

Memphis and Boise State may get invites as well to the Big 12 to make it the Big 14.

What happened to South Florida? They are the new Southern Miss in college Athletics. They are left out of every scenario.

 

[2330859]

ACC is off to a rough start, but Clemson losing to UGA, Miami losing to Alabama and UL losing to Ole Miss is not so disgraceful. If OSU, Wisconsin and Penn State opened up against those SEC opponents, it is unlikely they would have fared any better. Let’s watch the season play out a little longer before we bury the ACC to deep.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I agree but it happens every year everybody judges teams after the 1st and 2nd week. Then by the 3rd or 4th week things look totally different.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I don’t see how the Big12 can keep adding teams there revenue is going to get smaller and not bigger. Unless they are relying on Texas and Oklahoma to pay 400 million each when they leave and the Big12 is still Intact?

 

[2330859]

The FSU loss to JV State will be one of the events that prompts more fan base rebellion, questioning the direction of their once proud football program. They bare some responsibility for Jimbo leaving, and now they are now experiencing the consequences. I hope our fans learn the value of patience.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I think schools will leave because of 2 reasons: perception and money.

The new Big 12 is going to be the step-child league and I'm not sure what contracts were in place for these remaining schools as far as revenue sharing and tv deals but one would have to assume that the remaining schools are looking at SIGNIFICANTLY less money now. The new Big 12 has no brand and no program to hang their hat on.

Also, I would expect all of the schools they just added to take a decent step back. Cincinnati's schedule is going to increase in difficulty significantly. CBS ranks all 130 teams, if we give UC the same schedule that say WVU plays this year but we swap out Oklahoma and Texas for BYU and Houston (Cincy already plays UCF) then their SoS jumps drastically.

Cincy's current conference schedule is ranked by CBS as: 119, 20, 112, 67, 114, 123, 51, 91. If we gave them WVUs schedule it would be ranked: 47, 58, 30, 9, 32, 34, 117, 76, 39.

So this idea that the Big 12 is adding AAC versions of UCF and Cincy isn't true. Both of those schools are going to settle back down into mediocrity and struggle to get footing much the same way we have in ACC.

This current Big 12 has WVU struggling, 4 new schools taking a significant jump in competition, Baylor with a new coach, Texas Tech trying to get their feet back under them with a new coach and TCU/OSU both trying to become relevant again and Iowa State being their best school with a coach that seems destined to leave at some point in the very near future.

So I guess UCF getting an extra $25,000,000 a year which adds better facilities and a seat at the table won’t improve their recruiting? I’m willing to bet UCF will be ranked in the top 25 recruiting within two years. It may not even take that long.

 

[EKYCard643]

So I guess UCF getting an extra $25,000,000 a year which adds better facilities and a seat at the table won’t improve their recruiting? I’m willing to bet UCF will be ranked in the top 25 recruiting within two years. It may not even take that long.

Maybe. It’s not out of the realm of possibility but history tells us that ain’t happening. How many “new” schools have risen up to be consistent top 25 programs and recruiters? How many programs have risen from the “mid-major” level and turned into top 25 programs? It’s nearly impossible for power 5 teams that have been in the power 5 for 100 years to do that. I’ll wager that UCF and Cincys place as the cute mid major with a gaudy record is over.

UCF will have more money but that doesn’t mean they’re going to be a better program.

 

[goodKNIGHTnurse]

Maybe. It’s not out of the realm of possibility but history tells us that ain’t happening. How many “new” schools have risen up to be consistent top 25 programs and recruiters? How many programs have risen from the “mid-major” level and turned into top 25 programs? It’s nearly impossible for power 5 teams that have been in the power 5 for 100 years to do that. I’ll wager that UCF and Cincys place as the cute mid major with a gaudy record is over.

UCF will have more money but that doesn’t mean they’re going to be a better program.

To all you doubters, we will let our play on the field speak for itself. See you Friday (K)night.

 

[Knucklehank1]

To all you doubters, we will let our play on the field speak for itself. See you Friday (K)night.

Actually Friday night’s game wouldn’t lend credence to or refute EKY’s post

 

[EKYCard643]

Actually Friday night’s game wouldn’t lend credence to or refute EKY’s post

lol. Yeah I was like, "know your audience dude. Have you seen this board? We're talking about hiring a new coach, nobody on this board thinks we're beating you all."

 

[Sir Galahad]

Maybe. It’s not out of the realm of possibility but history tells us that ain’t happening. How many “new” schools have risen up to be consistent top 25 programs and recruiters? How many programs have risen from the “mid-major” level and turned into top 25 programs? It’s nearly impossible for power 5 teams that have been in the power 5 for 100 years to do that. I’ll wager that UCF and Cincys place as the cute mid major with a gaudy record is over.

UCF will have more money but that doesn’t mean they’re going to be a better program.

Baylor did a decent job but you’re correct history is on your side of thinking. UCF just doesn’t fit into a normal mold due to their size and location.

 

[EKYCard643]

I love the confidence.

But there's 20 or 30 Power 5 schools that have been making millions and millions for decades and have had the luxury of being major universities in major conferences and still can't field top 25 classes and winning seasons. Hell, Louisville and West Virginia were the two best possible schools to move into the power 5 in ages and both were major universities with lots of money and amenities, Louisville had their elite basketball program and WVU had a long and pretty good football history and was a major state school and they have both struggled to get a decent footing. UCF is a big school but they aren't the big dog in their state - they aren't even the second dog or the 3rd dog. They're in a state that routinely puts 3 teams in the top 25 in recruiting.

Money and conference affiliation doesn't always equals success - there are a number of elite and top tier programs that have every possible thing going for them including most of them actually recruiting well and they still can't figure it out. Texas, FSU, Miami, Nebraska, Tennessee, Stanford, Washington, USC, the school UCF's current coach just got fired from in Auburn. So the idea that UCF is going to just go from playing teams like East Carolina, Temple and Tulane and run through WVU, Iowa State and Oklahoma State is suspect.

An aspect UCF will have to overcome is their perception. Louisville fans know all to well about not being the biggest draw in your own state. UCF has to overcome the giant shadows cast by the major programs in their own state if they want to recruit their home turf. Nationally and regionally they have to overcome the stigma of being seen as a mid-major program by everyone. They're known as that schools that sometimes has an amazing record because they don't anyone.

UCF is set up nicely to move into the "P5" but I'm betting their transition is going to be a lot more bumpy than their fans realize and I'm betting Cincinnati's is going to be even more bumpy.

UCFs 2021 class would be ranked 8th in the Big 12 based on avg rating. Their 2020 class 6th, their 2019 class 7th. Its HARD to recruit to non-traditional powers. Its even HARD to recruit to non-traditional powers that are major state universities. Its hard to recruit to non-traditional power schools that have been in major conferences for years and its hard to recruit to non-traditional powers that even have pro-star power. Its hard to recruit in all the instances I just referenced and UCF isn't any of those. Recruiting isn't something that joining a new conference just automatically improves.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I don’t think UCF will be getting 25 million right off. The Big12 lost their marquee teams so I would think that a new contract would be less. Also they are expanding with an extra 2 teams which would also lessen the amount each team gets.

 

[EKYCard643]

I don’t think UCF will be getting 25 million right off. The Big12 lost their marquee teams so I would think that a new contract would be less. Also they are expanding with an extra 2 teams which would also lessen the amount each team gets.

Big 12 payouts last year were $34.5 million (of that $28 million was TV revenue), with Texas and Oklahoma and only 12 programs.

Quote from Big 12 article: “We estimate that OU and Texas participation in our television rights agreement is something approaching 50 percent of the value...”


I'm not sure what the 4 new programs add as far as added revenue - one would assume its minimal in comparison to their current members or else these 4 schools would have been picked up years ago. If we do some rough math, and without considering the money the 4 new teams brings in, if we cut the 28 million in half to 14 million and multiple that by 12, we get $168 million. $168 divided by 14 is 12. This is why the major Big 12 programs are freaking out, they can't cut anything their doing in football and their revenue could go from $35-$40 million down to below $20 million. I would wager that once all the dust settles the per team revenue sharing amount will be around $15-$18 million and not $25. Now granted that's tripling what they're making now but still in the scheme of major college football UCF is going to be moving up a level AND they're going to be making half as much as teams in other major conferences.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

To all you doubters, we will let our play on the field speak for itself. See you Friday (K)night.

You still are behind Florida, Florida State, & Miami in your own state. Not to mention so many other power programs coming into your backyard and taking talent.

This is big for UCF and there's some potential, but just ask Miami what happened when they went from the Big East to the ACC? It's not as easy as you think boys. Welcome to big boy football.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

UCF could have trouble with the travel in the B12. Adjusting to the style of teams there could be a challenge. They have very little to no history with the leftover programs there. WVU didn't really do too great when they joined, and they have a much longer tradition of playing at a high level than UCF currently has.

It's one thing to get fired up for a game or two against the P5 but it's something else to have 8 games scheduled with half on the road across the country.

That said UCF has had success with multiple coaches during the current era from O'Leary to Frost to Heupel and I am going to assume Gus gets it done until he finds a better job.

I'm not sure they are that far behind FSU and/or Miami. FSU is a complete train wreck I know it's only been 5 bad years for them but it feels like 20.

Miami is in better shape but a lot of that might have been about that short time with Mark Richt Diaz hasn't really lit it up and we know Al Golden and Randy Shannon were mediocre at best.

But yeah there aren't many weeks off in the P5 leagues so it could be a challenge joining the B12.

 

[EKYCard643]

That said UCF has had success with multiple coaches during the current era from O'Leary to Frost to Heupel and I am going to assume Gus gets it done until he finds a better job.

Like I said in a previous post about former Louisville coaches - its easy to have "success" when you're playing SMU, Tulane and East Carolina every week, much harder for coaches to have success when they're playing Oklahoma State, WVU and Iow State.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Like I said in a previous post about former Louisville coaches - its easy to have "success" when you're playing SMU, Tulane and East Carolina every week, much harder for coaches to have success when they're playing Oklahoma State, WVU and Iow State.

Do not disagree at all. And they will be forced into some shitty scheduling/travel agendas I'm sure.