Attendance dips below 12 thousand...
- Thread starter zipp
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I don't see where anything Zipp said is worth arguing over. I mean it all seems like cold hard stats.
Its hard to judge the attendance numbers for those non-conference, midweek cupcake games as every school is seeing terrible attendance numbers for those. I think Rupp even saw crowds of less than 10,000 for a few games earlier in the season. The real issue to look at is these conference games. If attendance isn't improving for these conference games then its a sign of things to come, right? UofL was 4-0 and had a conference game to play and barely filled half the arena. Thats a problem. Like Zipp said - lets see what the crowd is on Wednesday for a 9:00 game coming off another disappointing loss. Attendance is a problem - thats not controversial. If you don't like basketball's attendance numbers I suggest you stick your head in the sand once football season starts back up because football attendance is going to hit average numbers we haven't seen since the early 2000s.
Its hard to judge the attendance numbers for those non-conference, midweek cupcake games as every school is seeing terrible attendance numbers for those. I think Rupp even saw crowds of less than 10,000 for a few games earlier in the season. The real issue to look at is these conference games. If attendance isn't improving for these conference games then its a sign of things to come, right? UofL was 4-0 and had a conference game to play and barely filled half the arena. Thats a problem. Like Zipp said - lets see what the crowd is on Wednesday for a 9:00 game coming off another disappointing loss. Attendance is a problem - thats not controversial. If you don't like basketball's attendance numbers I suggest you stick your head in the sand once football season starts back up because football attendance is going to hit average numbers we haven't seen since the early 2000s.
Instead of removing a few words they deleted my post, yet zippo gets to keep ruining the this board
Thanks. This time it was like a couple of days of allergies. Sneezed a lot and a runny nose and that was it. Last time I had the loss of taste and smell and several other symptoms.
Mike, the numbers I summarized this week do show that Covid has been responsible for men's college basketball attendance declines on the order of 10% nationally. That's the 2021-22 YTD numbers compared to 2019-20. Obviously I'm skipping the Covid year.
So yeah Covid has hurt us. But U of L's YTD numbers are down 40% compared to 2017 which you can attest to if you've been to a recent home game. Our self inflicted damage has been far greater...
My bad. I thought sports was about W and L, championships and stuff like that. How much do we need to buy one now?
Zipp would know more than me but I would say that number starts with whatever it costs to buyout Satterfield and Mack's contract and then we go from there.
Is this board really naive enough to not realize how closely finances and success are connected? Take for instance how finances impact our potential success right now - we're basically forced into keeping Satterfield right now because we can't afford to replace him even though he's massively unpopular and attendance numbers are falling and expected to continue to fall.
So yeah...dollars and cents are pretty important. Had we had more money we could have replaced Satterfield and likely had positive vibes going into 2022. Instead we're in purgatory and will continue to slide down the P5 ladder.
I think some people really are. Or they're in denial like it doesn't matter.
As much as I like to talk about stats such as attendance as important indicators, how can we honestly expect Mack to be holding up the standard of excellence at U of L when his budget is 30% LESS than Pitino's final year? There's no free lunch. And if you don't look at financials, you don't understand that.
The big problem in athletics at the moment has far less to do with the coaches in the revenue sports. That's what people who just want to talk W's and L's miss. You have to zoom out to understand what's going on, and more importantly, how to fix it...
Or maybe some people are well aware of all these problems but are burnt out. Do you think it takes an above avg IQ to notice things aren't great with UofL Athletics right now on the court/field, off the court/field, and at the bank? Me neither.
This is how fan apathy is a thing.
Oh I think there's a lot of people who don't understand how bad athletics financials are. And the big reason for that is U of L has done its best to obscure them. They can't hide empty seats, but there's been zero communications about how poor our balance sheet now is and how it got there.
Sadly, there are people in this community like the media who also know but won't publicize it. There's too much concern about rocking the boat, retribution, program access, whatever. To compensate, it's probably why I pound the table about this stuff.
I appreciate that you might think people know. IMO if a lotta people really knew, it's all anyone would be talking about...
If the oblivious uninformed fan exists, which okay there could be some, they ain't visiting this website to find out the info from these threads. And whoever these fans are, they probably don't care, because they either never really did or they are burnt out.
I think the majority of Louisville fans ranging from rabid to casual are aware the programs aren't doing well on the court or off it. They can see empty seats at games, as many UK fans if not more at the football games, and figure out this ain't a gravy train of $. I also believe they are aware of COVID and all the scandals, etc.
I just think this community is well aware of the problems, and I'm unsure what anybody around here can do about the problems that exist.
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I understand money gives you options, it just doesn't equal winning. I also understand that OP simply wishes to throw crap at everything U of L since TJ. Pretty sure money is the only reason OP is back on this site. Posts and views were down in his absence. Although civility and actual sports related chat was up.
If the owners of this site think running a freak show argument clinic 24/7 is in their best interest for clicks and add revenue best of luck to them. There are other options.
If the owners of this site think running a freak show argument clinic 24/7 is in their best interest for clicks and add revenue best of luck to them. There are other options.
Money doesn’t equal winning that’s true, in that just because you have money doesn’t mean you’ll win.
Show me a Power 5 football program that’s broke and winning.
Show me a Power 5 football program that’s broke and winning.
Don't follow the finances of P5 schools everyday. But I just saw the Giants fired their coach. Probably be a couple more NFL coaches looking for employment by the time Superbowl Sunday is a distant memory. Would any of them come here and guarantee success? And just to clarify, this is the basketball board, right?
I wonder who he's pulling for to win the game. Never mind, we already know.
The suggestion that either Mack or Satterfield being replaced is entirely predicated on finances and revenue is flawed.
First of all, I am not sure we are in position to find a better head basketball coaching candidate for right now given the fact we just lost our President, lost our AD and are awaiting for NCAA sanctions on our MBB Program. I am sure both openings will be filled soon, but any high level candidate is going to question why both a President and AD would resign if the future was so positive, and what sanctions would he be inheriting.
Football? Please volunteer a list of worthy candidates that you think would come here that are clearly better suited than Satterfield? I have witnessed some of the most qualified HCs that have failed miserably after successful careers elsewhere, and an equal number of young inspiring coaches that failed to meet their lofty expectations.
I get the money limitations, but there are equally compelling reasons that make it difficult to fire either one right now.
First of all, I am not sure we are in position to find a better head basketball coaching candidate for right now given the fact we just lost our President, lost our AD and are awaiting for NCAA sanctions on our MBB Program. I am sure both openings will be filled soon, but any high level candidate is going to question why both a President and AD would resign if the future was so positive, and what sanctions would he be inheriting.
Football? Please volunteer a list of worthy candidates that you think would come here that are clearly better suited than Satterfield? I have witnessed some of the most qualified HCs that have failed miserably after successful careers elsewhere, and an equal number of young inspiring coaches that failed to meet their lofty expectations.
I get the money limitations, but there are equally compelling reasons that make it difficult to fire either one right now.
I absolutely agree about Mack. Its messy, expensive and complicated to fire Mack. I think we're just stuck with him for at least this year and next.
I hate the argument of "well who could we get better than Satterfield?" You don't stick with mediocrity just because you don't think you can do better. I would rather be terrible trying to be great than stuck in mediocrity. The worst place you can be in professional sports is to just miss the playoffs. You aren't getting a good draft pick and you aren't good enough to win big. Satterfield has shown us who he is. He's a mediocre coach on the field who tried to leave in the midst of a terrible season and has chosen personal relationships over fixing staff issues and potentially making the program better. How Bryan Brown survived this past season is absolutely shocking and tells us all we need to know about Scott Satterfield. No other major DC in the country could have had the 3 seasons Brown just had and survived - nobody.
This and the fact that the fans can’t do much about it except support the program by attending games, donations, etc. but we also realize that we know Zipp can rant and rave about how bad things are but yet he is powerless as well to have any impact. He just likes to read what he types…
I take issue with the idea that "real" fans are the ones who must support mediocrity. Fans come in all forms - you support your team/program however you like. The ONLY power we as fans have to show our disappointment is by not showing up. Do you think our athletic department would ever replace Satterfield if our stadium were sold out every game but he went 6-6 every year? I don't. If the athletic department is making money, donations are coming in and they're able to pay everything - they're happy. The only power we have is by not donating and not going to games. 95% of us aren't financially able to just buy season tickets like its nothing in order to "support" the program we love. Why are we expected to spend our money to go watch this football considering what we've seen the last 2 years and considering the very large and very vocal part of the fan base voiced displeasure with the program and staff all year by not attending games and yet the athletic department decided to not to make a single change? We're just supposed to be "cool, you didn't listen to us but here's thousands of my dollars and hours of my time, and my entire Saturday anyway."
That’s not really the point I was making, apparently not too well. Agree 100% with what you said. You can support or not support financially but just venting about it on a message board does what? So instead of Zipp spewing his statistics here make an appointment with the BOD, wear your little Tom Jurich shirt and demand something be done. Then come back on here so we can sing his praises. P.S - he can apply for a board member position if he is truly wants to “improve” things. Me thinks he just likes to complain…
I’m not a psychologist, I only stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Zipp doesn’t talk X’s and O’s because he knows there’s too many people on here that know more about it than he does. So he likes to talk about financials because in his mind, he knows more about it than anybody else. While he does seem to do a lot of research, his fact finding or results are geared to satisfy his own agenda, which is see how many posts he can create. Quality not quantity.
If you root for UofL you are rooting for a school that doesn't have a President or an AD at this time. You root for a bball program still waiting on further punishment with what feels like a dead man walking @ HC. The higher up positions must be filled, NCAA must wrap it up, and employees evaluated. Your program's reputation is at it's lowest in your lifetime, and the financials are not in good shape. A lot of things need to get fixed. I believe 99% of the fanbase agrees with what the situation is. But the fanbase probably has different POVs on next steps and how we got here.
The football program is also in a complicated spot due to part of the above.
These HC's are not given unlimited time. They will be evaluated and more than likely let go in the not too distant future, once a new AD has had a chance to evaluate.
The football program is also in a complicated spot due to part of the above.
These HC's are not given unlimited time. They will be evaluated and more than likely let go in the not too distant future, once a new AD has had a chance to evaluate.
There has never been a more factually accurate post in the history of this board than this one.
zipp post complaining about “shooting the messenger / fan card” in 3, 2, 1…
Just an FYI…Paul Miles from 840 WHAS said on Twitter that the announced attendance tonight was ……..11,973. The same number that was announced for the Pitt game. So that must be their go-to made up number as I’m sure it was much less than that since they ain’t gonna report a smaller number.
Funny as hell reading about some guy named 'zipp' with the poor guy nowhere around.
I'm smart enough NOT talking Xs and Os which I know far less about than financials.
Speaking of which, I routinely ask people to take our financial results and present your own analysis. Few if anyone ever do for obvious reasons. I'd welcome the opportunity to tear into someone else's analysis...someone gimme that chance please.
I need no better evidence that most fans and media are oblivious to our finances than on nights like tonite... There will be thread after thread about firing Mack on the heels of the same threads about Satterfield. And talk show hosts and callers will discuss the same thing. Almost never does anyone talk about our financial condition to pull off those coaching changes.
And to quote again--this time our last full time AD--I think the "small group of loud voices" (of which I'll gladly claim membership) have done a pretty damn good job of illuminating the pathetic shape of U of L athletics pretty quickly and convincingly. But I'm not taking a victory lap yet...
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks...” - from William Shakespeare's Hamlet
Re. various comments the last couple days...I'm smart enough NOT talking Xs and Os which I know far less about than financials.
Speaking of which, I routinely ask people to take our financial results and present your own analysis. Few if anyone ever do for obvious reasons. I'd welcome the opportunity to tear into someone else's analysis...someone gimme that chance please.
I need no better evidence that most fans and media are oblivious to our finances than on nights like tonite... There will be thread after thread about firing Mack on the heels of the same threads about Satterfield. And talk show hosts and callers will discuss the same thing. Almost never does anyone talk about our financial condition to pull off those coaching changes.
And to quote again--this time our last full time AD--I think the "small group of loud voices" (of which I'll gladly claim membership) have done a pretty damn good job of illuminating the pathetic shape of U of L athletics pretty quickly and convincingly. But I'm not taking a victory lap yet...
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Just saw that and planned to comment.
I think this explanation is more meaningful... There was more likely a ZERO WALK-UP GATE, and U of L will probably fall back on that explanation. I mean, it makes sense.
I've looked at a lot of U of L attendance figures over the years, and that's the first time I've seen it...
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I can tell you there were fewer tonight than the Pittsburgh game. Yes, the students were back but it was sparse.
With NIL money matters……period. You can be successful in basketball with less but in football you have to have big $$$$. I do agree the University better understand the importance of Athletics with the next President and AD. They need new blood.
I'm not saying that great coaches can't overcome obstacles like less money to work with. Mack has hardly proven to be a great coach.
And U of L basketball has 30% less money in its budget than it did in Pitino's last year, most of it IMO due to the arena fee that Postel and Grissom agreed to start paying. The two changes happened simultaneously, and the dollar amounts pretty much offset each other.
That is purely and simply DEFUNDING men's basketball, and nothing like that has happened in any other sport at U of L. Mack foolishly took the job under those circumstances, and he's paying the price. Unfortunately, anyone who takes his place will pay that same price...
This info is reportedly from Deener, as mentioned during the 2nd hour of the ESPN 680 Sunday morning sports talk show yesterday...
Total ticket scans for the first nine home games this year were 56,784 for an average of 6,309 per game. That's for games thru 12/29 incl. two exhibitions.
Total reported attendance for those games per Deener was 114,852--an average of 12,761. I'll have to check that against the data I have from U of L's box scores.
That means half of the tickets sold are actually being used. Good info to have/know, and I assume he got it from someone he knows inside U of L or the arena operations.
And it doesn't portend anything good for ticket sales next year if Mack is back...
Total ticket scans for the first nine home games this year were 56,784 for an average of 6,309 per game. That's for games thru 12/29 incl. two exhibitions.
Total reported attendance for those games per Deener was 114,852--an average of 12,761. I'll have to check that against the data I have from U of L's box scores.
That means half of the tickets sold are actually being used. Good info to have/know, and I assume he got it from someone he knows inside U of L or the arena operations.
And it doesn't portend anything good for ticket sales next year if Mack is back...
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