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2019 Directors Cup Standings...

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zipp

zipp

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Jun 26, 2001
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I saw a story on WLKY-TV last nite about the DC standings for the area schools. I don't see the story posted on their website, or I'd link it. They even got a brief comment from "Vince" on the subject. (He looked a little haggard BTW, and I'm not sure the pressures of the job aren't starting to wear on him, poor guy!...)

Cowgill noted that U of L is ranked 41st nationally, and the evaluation year ends 6/30. That ranking sounded lower than I remembered, so I did a quick check...

Dir-Cup-Rank.jpg

The red bars are since "Vince" took over (2018 was a partial year), and the dotted line is the regression plot through the prior years shown. We're now where we were a decade ago on this metric.

"Thanks Vince!"
 
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ShortCreek said:
Uh, ya mean thanks 2.0, and the guy who rehired him maybe???
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I was waiting for that flawed analysis...

Take a look at the bar for 2013, one of the worst on the chart. You went to the Sugar Bowl that year, and it wasn't a bad year in the other three major sports.

That's because the ranking is--rightly or wrongly--driven by the nonrevenue sports. And there was nothing supposed to be wrong with those when "Vince" arrived on the scene.

But hey, maybe this IS a conspiracy. The slapd!cks are ranked THIRTY spots ahead of us this year at #11.

"Thanks Vince!"

Tyra-baseball%20pic_zpssayvqaka.jpg
 
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Hate seeing the back and forth bickering amongst the gang.

It doesn’t get much more Card fam than Zipp and the Ghost. Just disagreeing on decisions out of our control.

We can agree that we are still better off than Purdoo and UKaay.
 
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One observation and one question: were the directors cup rankings you used adjusted to reflect zero points in men’s basketball as a result of all of the vacated basketball wins, including the vacated final four in 2012 and national championship in 2013?

And the graph is proportionally inaccurate and therefore misleading, since you started the vertical baseline at 20 instead of zero. Plotted correctly, the “negative” trend looks much less dramatic.
 
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PushupMan said:
One observation and one question: were the directors cup rankings you used adjusted to reflect zero points in men’s basketball as a result of all of the vacated basketball wins, including the vacated final four in 2012 and national championship in 2013?

And the graph is proportionally inaccurate and therefore misleading, since you started the vertical baseline at 20 instead of zero. Plotted correctly, the “negative” trend looks much less dramatic.
Click to expand...
No idea on the 2013 data--it was simply what's reported. That bar's an outlier among the green data points anyway. It's a more compelling and statistically valid trendline without it.

One criticism we've always had about this metric is that equally weights major and "minor" sports. A single sport contributes about 5% to the overall number. In that regard, it overstates the impact of nonrevenue sports. But we weren't supposed to be having any problems with those sports. So what gives?

As far as magnifying the plot as an attempt to disguise the trend, you'll have to educate me on how that biases a statistical analysis. It does nothing, for example, to a least-squares regression line. And the 2019 data point has clearly deviated from that. As I said, it's as bad as it was a decade ago.

And I can give you another perspective that probably matters more than a plot...

Arizona State
BYU
Duke
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Minnesota
NC State
Oklahoma State
Princeton
Texas Tech
Wake Forest

Those are some of the schools we were ranked ahead of in 2017. We're now behind them...
 
PushupMan said:
One other observation: UofL’s ranking this year will improve significantly once our top 4 finish in baseball is added.
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As I said, one sport accounts for 5%. I doubt it's "significant".

But fair enough, I'll update the analysis when Learfield updates their rankings. No problem...
 
zipp said:
No idea on the 2013 data--it was simply what's reported. That bar's an outlier among the green data points anyway. It's a more compelling and statistically valid trendline without it.

One criticism we've always had about this metric is that equally weights major and "minor" sports. A single sport contributes about 5% to the overall number. In that regard, it overstates the impact of nonrevenue sports. But we weren't supposed to be having any problems with those sports. So what gives?

As far as magnifying the plot as an attempt to disguise the trend, you'll have to educate me on how that biases a statistical analysis. It does nothing, for example, to a least-squares regression line. And the 2019 data point has clearly deviated from that. As I said, it's as bad as it was a decade ago.

And I can give you another perspective that probably matters more than a plot...

Arizona State
BYU
Duke
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Minnesota
NC State
Oklahoma State
Princeton
Texas Tech
Wake Forest

Those are some of the schools we were ranked ahead of in 2017. We're now behind them...
Click to expand...

Part of the problem with your original post is that you said that 41 was lower than what you remember it being .... I specifically bring up 2012 and 2013 because it’s certain that any memory you have of our director’s cup rankings in those years included artificially high rankings which you haven’t taken the time or effort to adjust for ... because doing so doesn’t fit your agenda. Just like waiting for baseball to be added to the 2019 rankings or using an unbiased vertical scale also do not fit your agenda.
 
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PushupMan said:
Part of the problem with your original post is that you said that 41 was lower than what you remember it being .... I specifically bring up 2012 and 2013 because it’s certain that any memory you have of our director’s cup rankings in those years included artificially high rankings which you haven’t taken the time or effort to adjust for ... because doing so doesn’t fit your agenda. Just like waiting for baseball to be added to the 2019 rankings or using an unbiased vertical scale also do not fit your agenda.
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Well first of all, you don't even know the rankings were adjusted by the removal of vacated wins. It appears you're condemning me and my analysis by your hypothetical insights. So who has the agenda?

The ranking in 2010 was 41. Three years later in 2013, it was 38. That's no trend--what was I supposed to remember about it? All of the other data points until 2018, showed a trend down as I acknowledged recalling. You'll have to clarify how my alleged bias has reflected the way I think and remember facts.

And as I always ask of people who argue over facts... Show me data that support your POV or a different one. I'll take a wild guess now that you don't have any...
 
zipp said:
Well first of all, you don't even know the rankings were adjusted by the removal of vacated wins. It appears you're condemning me and my analysis by your hypothetical insights. So who has the agenda?

The ranking in 2010 was 41. Three years later in 2013, it was 38. That's no trend--what was I supposed to remember about it? All of the other data points until 2018, showed a trend down as I acknowledged recalling. You'll have to clarify how my alleged bias has reflected the way I think and remember facts.

And as I always ask of people who argue over facts... Show me data that support your POV or a different one. I'll take a wild guess now that you don't have any...
Click to expand...

It appears that the 2012 and 2013 totals are not adjusted for the vacated wins. If basketball in 2013 were adjusted we would drop several spots in the ranking.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
It appears that the 2012 and 2013 totals are not adjusted for the vacated wins. If basketball in 2013 were adjusted we would drop several spots in the ranking.
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Appreciate that perspective. Maybe you can address P-Up's issues about how that biases (or doesn't) the chart...
 
zipp said:
Appreciate that perspective. Maybe you can address P-Up's issues about how that biases (or doesn't) the chart...
Click to expand...

I’m certain he’s more than capable to speak for himself. I think your chart shows that we are right in range with where we should be given the assortment of sports we have. I’m proud that the university is overcoming the major scandals that have hit our flagship program. We are fortunate that this hasn’t bled out our non-revenue sports.
 
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Knucklehank1 said:
I’m certain he’s more than capable to speak for himself. I think your chart shows that we are right in range with where we should be given the assortment of sports we have. I’m proud that the university is overcoming the major scandals that have hit our flagship program. We are fortunate that this hasn’t bled out our non-revenue sports.
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Oh we're "in the range" if you want to turn the program back a decade to find a comparable data point. No question about that.

For S&Gs, I also looked back at how much money U of L was producing in FY2010--the last time we were this low in the Directors Cup standings... That year, we booked a little more than HALF of what we made in Jurich's last full year (2017).

Of course, I doubt "Vince" is making us that much money now. You could say we're starting to suck at both ends of the spectrum.

"Thanks Vince!"

001.jpg
 
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zipp said:
Oh we're "in the range" if you want to turn the program back a decade to find a comparable data point. No question about that.

For S&Gs, I also looked back at how much money U of L was producing in FY2010--the last time we were this low in the Directors Cup standings... That year, we booked a little more than HALF of what we made in Jurich's last full year (2017).

Of course, I doubt "Vince" is making us that much money now. You could say we're starting to suck at both ends of the spectrum.

"Thanks Vince!"

Revenue%20Trend_zpszjim8uvr.jpg
Click to expand...

A few things. As was mentioned before, the final numbers aren’t in for 2019. 2018 was consistent with 2014. 2013 (aka “the year of the cardinals”) looks to be the 10 year worst after basketball adjustment. Not surprisingly you went into this with an agenda and tried to get the data to fit that agenda. I’d suggest you make sure you are using full and complete data before you try to comment on the data (and then make a graph...lol).

Fortunately you are on a lonely island with your anti-Mack and anti-Tyra agendas.
 
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Majority (99.9%) of us don’t come here to read sh!t from BB fans. I’m tired of blocking you asses. Maybe the admins will get tired of the complaints and start booting on a consistent bases.
 
Knucklehank1 said:
A few things. As was mentioned before, the final numbers aren’t in for 2019. 2018 was consistent with 2014. 2013 (aka “the year of the cardinals”) looks to be the 10 year worst after basketball adjustment. Not surprisingly you went into this with an agenda and tried to get the data to fit that agenda. I’d suggest you make sure you are using full and complete data before you try to comment on the data (and then make a graph...lol).

Fortunately you are on a lonely island with your anti-Mack and anti-Tyra agendas.
Click to expand...
The last out was just recorded in the CWS. And as promised, I'll look for the "significant" impact that complete baseball results will have on the final rankings. I expect it will involve a total remake of my chart! :p

So let me know how presenting the last decade of Directors Cup standings reveals my "agenda". Should I have stopped the chart when Jurich left? :p :p

You also get the same offer I made earlier... Don't like my data? Show me the data you like. Appears that P-Up has left the building.

While you're at it, find me the links were I also put my anti-Mack agenda on display. Just for more S&Gs...
 
zipp said:
The last out was just recorded in the CWS. So as promised, I'll look for the "significant" impact that baseball results will have in the final rankings. I expect it will involve a total remake of my chart! :p

So let me know how presenting the last decade of Directors Cup standings reveals my "agenda". Should I have stopped the chart when Jurich left? :p :p

You also get the same offer I made earlier... Don't like my data? Show me the data you like. Appears that P-Up has left the building.

While you're at it, find me the links were I also put my anti-Mack agenda on display. Just for more S&Gs...
Click to expand...

You’ve presented inaccurate data and are making claims associated with inaccurate data. I don’t like inaccurate data and neither should you. You got a couple years of vacated basketball wins to fit into the chart.

So you are saying you aren’t or haven’t been anti-Mack. Lol. Changing your tune? Well, fortunately you do have the opportunity to change your strange ways in regards to both Mack and Tyra.
 
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PHCARD said:
Majority (99.9%) of us don’t come here to read sh!t from BB fans. I’m tired of blocking you asses. Maybe the admins will get tired of the complaints and start booting on a consistent bases.
Click to expand...
I wish...
 
zipp said:
I saw a story on WLKY-TV last nite about the DC standings for the area schools. I don't see the story posted on their website, or I'd link it. They even got a brief comment from "Vince" on the subject. (He looked a little haggard BTW, and I'm not sure the pressures of the job aren't starting to wear on him, poor guy!...)

Cowgill noted that U of L is ranked 41st nationally, and the evaluation year ends 6/30. That ranking sounded lower than I remembered, so I did a quick check...

Dir-Cup-Rank.jpg

The red bars are since "Vince" took over (2018 was a partial year), and the dotted line is the regression plot through the prior years shown. We're now where we were a decade ago on this metric.

"Thanks Vince!"
Click to expand...
Does the graph include pre 2010. I am interested in the 13 years with Jurich as AD that predates this particular graph. I understand why you are displaying this graph but it might be interesting to see what it looks like in say, Jurich second year and after..
 
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Knucklehank1 said:
You’ve presented inaccurate data and are making claims associated with inaccurate data. I don’t like inaccurate data and neither should you. You got a couple years of vacated basketball wins to fit into the chart.

So you are saying you aren’t or haven’t been anti-Mack. Lol. Changing your tune? Well, fortunately you do have the opportunity to change your strange ways in regards to both Mack and Tyra.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the "notion"--since you don't really know--that the 2013 data point was bad. I actually like the chart below better which more clearly shows the trend. (The trendline was adjusted as well.)

Again, give me the anti-Mack evidence, please, since it's so obvious you must have it...


Dir-Cup-Rank-2013-removed.jpg
 
sk73 said:
Does the graph include pre 2010. I am interested in the 13 years with Jurich as AD that predates this particular graph. I understand why you are displaying this graph but it might be interesting to see what it looks like in say, Jurich second year and after..
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Older data going back to 2008-09 can be found on the DC website. LINK

2017 was the best ranking in the data they provide, and 2019 ties for the worst...
 
Not sure the rationale for eliminating 2013. I do know that the 2013 data was not updated because the data set that established our “final” ranking gave us full credit for basketball, not a 0.

Lol...you now refute that you’ve been anti-Mack. Well ain’t that convenient. You’ve certainly carved out odd positions, but now you are just practicing revisionist history.
 
Btw...I do appreciate that “Zipp” has refuted his anti-Mack stance. It’s important to have growth. Taking a neutral (or even a positive) stance on someone in the new Cardinals athletics organization is certainly welcome news. I’m sure Coach Mack appreciates your support. Perhaps Vince Tyra might be next for a clean slate with you? Well done “Zipp”!!
 
Knucklehank1 said:
Not sure the rationale for eliminating 2013. I do know that the 2013 data was not updated because the data set that established our “final” ranking gave us full credit for basketball, not a 0...
Click to expand...
How do you know, where did you read that? Because P-Up asked the question? He didn't STATE anything.

You don't know how to handle data, so you don't understand. When you have a bad data point in a set of data, you remove it. You really don't even know if it's a bad data point or not, but in this thread you have it presented both ways. Make up your mind.
Knucklehank1 said:
...Lol...you now refute that you’ve been anti-Mack. Well ain’t that convenient. You’ve certainly carved out odd positions, but now you are just practicing revisionist history.
Click to expand...
You can LOL all you want. But it sure doesn't appear you can link such obvious evidence...
 
zipp said:
How do you know, where did you read that? Because P-Up asked the question? He didn't STATE anything.

You don't know how to handle data, so you don't understand. When you have a bad data point in a set of data, you remove it. You really don't even know if it's a bad data point or not, but in this thread you have it presented both ways. Make up your mind.

You can LOL all you want. But it sure doesn't appear you can link such obvious evidence...
Click to expand...

I looked up the Directors Cup for 2013 and the underlying scores. We are getting credit for 2013 b-ball. Handle that data!
 
Knucklehank1 said:
I looked up the Directors Cup for 2013 and the underlying scores. We are getting credit for 2013 b-ball. Handle that data!
Click to expand...
Link it please--as I did--and explain exactly how that affects my analysis. Exactly.

(Let me get some popcorn...)
 
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