NC State vsVandy CWS
- Thread starter gocds
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We also beat Vanderbilt; in hindsight I remain convinced that despite the late season slide, UL should have been invited. The ACC was better, and far more competitive than media ever acknowledged.
One thing I learned this season, it's ok to lose a series. Under no circumstances do you get swept, especially late in the season, especially, especially, at home. The UNC and Miami series doomed us. We weren't even one of the first four out.
Look, the way the Cards played down the stretch there was no doubt they weren't going to be invited to the tournament. They wouldn't have even won a single game. Had they been picked it would have been totally due to the Cards being a elite status program and there's not enough respect for this university for that to happen.
I keep reading how we swept NC State. Our pitching rotation that weekend was Kirian. He was 3-0 at the time. By the end of the season, he lost his role as a starter. Game 2 starter was Glen Albanese who was 2-0, but got hurt and maybe just maybe was going to be available in the postseason although didn’t pitch in ACC tournament. Game 3 starter was Luke Seed, who started out as midday starter and got hurt his last start. He was not going to be available even if we got selected. In that third game, Elliott got the win after a multi run explosion in the 8th inning.
I am the first to acknowledge this 2021 UL baseball team was disappointing, particularly after the Pitt series was cancelled and the 10 day freeze followed. Here is the problem with those who dismiss the earlier UL wins, and emphasize the late season dive as reason for not being selected; as the early mid-week losses to out of conference teams were equally damaging to this team and their SOS. Apparently the NCAA selection process dismissed UL early successes when beating UVA, NCST and Vanderbilt, but used the early losses to Western Illinois, Morehead St., Eastern Ky, and Cincinnati as further reason to exclude.
Now compare Alabama’s body of work, and their selection versus UL’s absence. This is all about SEC vs ACC; as ESPN and other media treated teams like Alabama (12-17) favorably even when losing to their SEC opponents, and dismissed their out of conference losses.
Just remember this UL team swept NCST, took two out of three from UVA and beat Vanderbilt; interestingly, we now see those 3 opponents are still alive in Omaha.
The SEC was overly-weighted in both selection and hosting. The home field advantage was huge, and despite that benefit, they only have two survivors now ......same as the ACC.
I understand why people want to value the win over Vanderbilt but knowledgeable people know that a mid week game against neither Rocker or Leiter has very little value overall. And again, it came down to which real U of L team existed at the end of the season. The answer is simple, we had no real starters going into the ACC tournament. We weren’t going to survive a super regional, let alone a regional. Let’s forget 2021 and look forward to a bettter 2022 season.
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You are making my point NC Card; people like yourself applying their own criteria as to what qualifies, or in your case what does not have merit in determining selection. Actually knowledgeable people have long applied inter-conference games (mid week included) as a valuable contribution to SOS and National rankings; which influences the post season selection. UL scheduling Indiana, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt and UK are intentional on the part of CDM as a way to increase interest in UL a baseball, as well as providing a mechanism for determining a more National perspective of our program.
For further evidence, you need to pay more attention to the manner in which UL’s ranking dropped with the early mid week losses, and then the rebound that occurred after the two wins against UK a and Vanderbilt.
While it is true that Vanderbilt did not use their star weekend pitchers for the mid-week game; you need to know that UL a did not either.
If you really want to understand how an argument can be made for UL’s inclusion, or exclusion to this 60+ tournament field; one needs to compare against those who were selected. I used Alabama as just one example, as they had a losing conference record, yet according to ESPN, a late series with UK was going to determine which one would receive the 9th SEC selection.
For further evidence, you need to pay more attention to the manner in which UL’s ranking dropped with the early mid week losses, and then the rebound that occurred after the two wins against UK a and Vanderbilt.
While it is true that Vanderbilt did not use their star weekend pitchers for the mid-week game; you need to know that UL a did not either.
If you really want to understand how an argument can be made for UL’s inclusion, or exclusion to this 60+ tournament field; one needs to compare against those who were selected. I used Alabama as just one example, as they had a losing conference record, yet according to ESPN, a late series with UK was going to determine which one would receive the 9th SEC selection.
The fact is that UofL got screwed by the selection committee. We did not end the season on a strong note but we had a strong winning season. Plus we had victories over tourney participants. With this being said I do believe we would have had a difficult time in Omaha because of insufficiencies in both pitching and offense, but I sure would have liked to have seen our performance for myself. I’m looking forward to next season because we will field a very good team next season.
GO CARDS!!!
GO CARDS!!!
It is not my criteria. Go back and watch the interview of the selection committee chairman. He clearly said that an emphasis was on how teams finished their seasons like Virginia, like NC State. Yeah had we not been swept those last 2 series, had we won more games in ACC tournament, had we not finished .500 in ACC regular season, then yes wins against Vanderbilt can factor in but without those other things, it loses weight. You can always point to outliers like Alabama and why ND didn’t get to host, but you’re going to have that. I didn’t see us as deserving this year and neither did the committee.
There are some of us that simply disagree with you. Apparently we are all UofL fans so we can agree on that. Looking forward to next season.
GO CARDS!!!
That’s fine. I don’t mind disagreement but while I have given many reasons why I felt we didn’t deserve to make the postseason, all I have read is that we were screwed by committee. It’s starting to be our calling card for all sports. We were cheated, there is a NCAA conspiracy against us. I refuse to believe it when we were our own worst enemy. We could have won our ACC tournament pool play, we didn’t.
Go Cards!
Vandy defeats Stanford to set up rematch with NC State tomorrow. Tonight, Virginia and Texas have a showdown in an elimination game.
It has no affect on the outcomes, but listening to the ESPN telecast, it only increases my concerns over the incredible bias towards the SEC in general, and their influence in the rankings/selection process.
At one point earlier in the series, one of the talking heads questioned how UVA survived up to that point in the elimination process, suggesting they were somehow undeserving. MSU, Vandy and even Tennessee were all worthy of their high standing, but it does not support the minimization of the ACC and the rest of the field.
At one point earlier in the series, one of the talking heads questioned how UVA survived up to that point in the elimination process, suggesting they were somehow undeserving. MSU, Vandy and even Tennessee were all worthy of their high standing, but it does not support the minimization of the ACC and the rest of the field.
No NC Card; I have given you more than ample evidence of how the criteria for selection is weighted more heavily by those applying their own set of standards. There is a difference between the motivation that results in the selections, versus the criteria being used; something that you obviously have failed to distinguish.
I have not dismissed the reasons that you feel UL was correctly omitted from the field; in fact I have repeatedly acknowledged the late season performance clearly provided a worthy argument for why they were not selected. However, you reject any other possibilities that might provide justification for UL inclusion. My offering the concerns about ESPN influences, are only intended as the why ESPN would elevate the SEC, to such a degree that it results in other candidates being left out.
For example, you never accepted the challenge of addressing my comparison of the resume of Alabama with UL.
I have no problem with the criteria you use to formulate your opinion, I just look beyond the reasons the media and selection committee use to support their decision.
It is quite telling that Virginia and NC State were the only teams in the CWS which were not 1-seeds. NC State was a 2-seed in their regional and Virginia was a 3-seed.
Yet Virginia went 1-2 in the CWS, beating the National #3 seed Tennessee before losing close games to #7 National seed Mississippi State and #2 National seed Texas.
NC State has done even better, having gone 2-0 and beating #9 Stanford and #4 Vanderbilt, needing just one win in its next two games against Vandy to advance to the CWS finals.
Its very clear that the ACC teams were greatly under seeded.
Something to keep an eye on. NCST has a player with a positive Covid test. Other players are in protocol. Bad timing to say the least.
That's just crazy. Cannot for the life of me understand why athletes would refuse to get the vaccine - especially with the team aspect. Even in an individual sport like golf, choosing not to get vaccinated cost Jon Rahm $1.7 million earlier this year when he had to forfeit the Memorial Golf tournament.
To Jon Rahm’s credit, he acknowledged that the PGA was correct and that he made a very bad decision to not get vaccinated earlier in the year. He put his family, caddie, coach and other players at risk without a good reason.
Officially a No Contest. It's a darn shame b/c I thought NCST was the best team in Omaha.
Even some vaccinated NC State players tested positive yesterday. Unbelievable, blaming folks for testing positive (???) for a virus.
I completely agree with you that nobody should be blamed, but from my understanding, vaccinated players do not need to be tested for Covid. Two non-vaccinated players tested positive and therefore the whole team had to be tested. If the whole team was vaxed the players wouldn’t have been tested. Really unfortunate situation regardless.
What’s problematic for team sports is that, even if your entire team is vaccinated, that doesn’t guarantee that everyone on your opponents team is also.
You cannot maintain social distance and/or wear masks while playing team sports, either.
At least here in the US, where the vaccine has been available to anyone over the age of 12 for more than two months, I think it’s time to stop attempting to protect everyone. With the start of the fall semester, we should be ready to move on from testing everyone at NCAA sporting events, and only players who are showing signs of illness should be tested, and if positive, quarantined.
The time to start the discussion is now, and the time to change the protocols, is right after the end of the CWS.
You cannot maintain social distance and/or wear masks while playing team sports, either.
At least here in the US, where the vaccine has been available to anyone over the age of 12 for more than two months, I think it’s time to stop attempting to protect everyone. With the start of the fall semester, we should be ready to move on from testing everyone at NCAA sporting events, and only players who are showing signs of illness should be tested, and if positive, quarantined.
The time to start the discussion is now, and the time to change the protocols, is right after the end of the CWS.
Correct! Had the entire team been vaccinated, there wouldn’t have been tests. It’s a touchy, dicey situation. Our belief systems lead us down different paths. There isn’t quite a right or wrong. In this instance, however, in this situation, the unvaxxed players put the team at risk, and they ultimately cost them a national championship. Yes, they are to blame, 1,000%. Hard truths are hard.
Agreed Boone Co; NCST gave every indication that it was the best team in Omaha; as they beat Vandy in the first game, and their follow up 3 to 1 loss was played without 5 starters. No one will ever know now.
I don’t think anyone would argue that they were playing the best baseball down the stretch.
I think after they beat Vandy to go to the winners bracket, Coach Avent was interviewed and one of the interviewers said something like you guys can take it easy and rest. Avent responded by saying no, the asst coach hadn’t been feeling well and a few of the guys had a bug going around. Lo and behold it was Covid.
Here's the rest of the story. Imagine the NCAA changing the rules in the middle of the game????
Well that begs the question. Did the other 3 teams mandate their players had to be vaccinated? Was NC Srate just unlucky? How did each team handle being in Omaha?
