Louisville vs Boston College Game Thread
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I used to catch nearly every Cards game I could but now I usually DVR them and watch them later if they happen to win. It just got too frustrating to watch all the losing.
If you don’t let their defensive weaknesses and occasional turnovers frustrate you, they’re actually a pretty watchable team
A lot of scoring and up-and-down play which many people here claim to want when we’re replacing coaches. This is the product of that…
A lot of scoring and up-and-down play which many people here claim to want when we’re replacing coaches. This is the product of that…
These guys play NBA All Star game defense. They seem to have long lapses where they just lose focus on both ends.
BTW, BC should be embarrassed by the attendance. I know it’s a Tuesday night, but Sheesh….. nobody is there.
A 25-8 run to start the 2nd half certainly feels like a spot where some coaching would have been warranted. A timeout to discuss the changes made by BC and what changes / adjustments are needed by UofL perhaps?
Payne just basically rolls the ball out there - shit either works or it doesn’t. Adjustments are for those who don’t believe I guess…
Payne just basically rolls the ball out there - shit either works or it doesn’t. Adjustments are for those who don’t believe I guess…
Another double digit loss. Game was in hand - BC made adjustments at half and Payne did not.
Emblematic of his tenure.
Emblematic of his tenure.
If we're being honest, which I understand it's not easy to do in these times. But if we are, they probably win that game with Skyy. To be clear, it's not an excuse because the game is pretty much meaningless. I'm not saying this in a defense of the team or the HC. Just an observation. Not making any bigger picture claims by having that opinion.
i've thought about this and i doubt he is smart enough to get it, but when phil jackson coached both the bulls and the lakers, his philosophy was to let them play thru trouble so they can try to figure it out themselves how to reverse the trend. sometimes coaching is letting the players learn thru the tough stretches. i doubt this is his reasoning or philosophy, but it could be. maybe he just wants them to think more
I'll have to disagree with this. While I do believe we are a better team with Skyy, he doesn't bring more defense to the game than any other player and that's where we lost the game. We had 4 players in double figures, shot 47%, made more FT's and outrebounded BC. The difference was BC shot nearly 57% and had 6 players scoring in double digits. Another indication is the discrepancy in block shots. I love BHH but we have no defenders down low. How many times did BC score on the backdoor cut to the basket and we made no adjustments. Its not hard to see that we are a poor man's version of the kitties who also don't play defense but have the firepower and talent to overcome most teams. We don't.
If that's his strategy he's dumber than I thought. These guys are not NBA players they NEED to be coached. They have no idea how to play defense so they can't figure it out on their own.
He doesn't call timeout because he doesn't get the game flow and more importantly he doesn't know what to tell them..
I think KP had enough games as a HC to realize that strategy with this team doesn’t work if that is in fact his logic, which I doubt.
No way! You never disagree with anyone! Ever! bwhahahahahahaha
Skyy's giving you 13 PPG and some intangibles. Williams couldn't recoup it this time like he did vs FSU when he got 19 to cover it.
It's a #' of bodies problem and gotta have all guys that can score do that to win on the road even vs weak teams.
The problems you point out are real, but they are status quo, they've shown they can win a few despite all that.
Grandson walked in and sat 10 rows behind the Cardinal bench. He estimated the crowd at 300.
Sorry, but I brought some stats to the table, not Zipp stats but enough to justify my reasons. You on the other hand just said we would have won with Skyy simply being there... Not sure that's defendable.
I just didn't feel like writing a novel and what I'm about to say seemed pretty obvious without needing to say it.
Skyy averages 13ppg and 3 apg, and when you remove that and replace it with next to nothing you're seeing a major impact without him on the floor. Roughly 20 pts reduced from your output via Skyy directly in a game you lost by 12. This doesn't account for intangibles like leadership shown while playing through broken ribs the previous game.
With Skyy down they had to have Williams come through a la FSU game and he didn't. That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid who's just starting the career as a middling 4* so I'm not blaming him for struggling last night.
They beat FSU allowing better than 50% FG shooting to them, but it was at home and Williams showed out for 19 when Skyy was out. But it was also a home game and that does swing some points our way.
Last night you had an 8 pt lead @ the half and got your doors blown off in the 2nd probably due to tired legs and not having enough bodies. You played Zan 10 minutes! There's a lot of collateral damage accounted for here due to the loss of a player of that magnitude averaging the minutes Skyy plays. You absorbed those lost minutes that should go to Skyy in a commnity effot that weakens everyone else's legs.
The loss of Skyy is large and if it needs to be explained to you the explanation isn't going to matter anyway. It's one of the least controversial points a poster could make about the game last night but here we are.
Two differences I suspect. One - there is a dramatic difference between college aged - even high D1 - players and professionals from an experience and basketball IQ standpoint. Two - while Phil Jackson may have let them try to figure it out on their own - he knew the answers.
Gotcha, so just watch the 36% of the game when they are scoring......
I claim to want an exciting, competitive team that is playing for a 4 or better seed in the tourney. Screw a moral victory at BC with 385 people in the stands.
26 days and counting.........
I still think we all don’t really understand how difficult coaching is in this new world. The players are acting like kids without any fear of discipline. Any discipline comes that the player or their parents don’t like transfer. It is a mini version of the NBA without that level of skill. Players have all the leverage.
Louisville is on a different level but replacing KP isn’t going to come without more struggles. It is a new age of college basketball. It is in flux the right guy can really turn it around. They need to run this like a NBA organization. Structure top to bottom like a NBA team. Hire a NBA guy to be the GM give him a staff to evaluate high school and college players. The GM works hand and had with the head coach. You don’t need 6-7 coaches on the freaking bench during a game. College sports is about player acquisition and fit.
Whatever the Brohm’s are doing in terms of players acquisition follow it in basketball.
Louisville is on a different level but replacing KP isn’t going to come without more struggles. It is a new age of college basketball. It is in flux the right guy can really turn it around. They need to run this like a NBA organization. Structure top to bottom like a NBA team. Hire a NBA guy to be the GM give him a staff to evaluate high school and college players. The GM works hand and had with the head coach. You don’t need 6-7 coaches on the freaking bench during a game. College sports is about player acquisition and fit.
Whatever the Brohm’s are doing in terms of players acquisition follow it in basketball.
And yet you had a subpar game from Johnson who establish a record for a U of L player plus you had Kaleb Glenn coming off a career game. Sorry, it wasn't just Skyy. Sorry I had to point that out to you Mr. All Knowing.
Part of that struggle is turning into a destination for the players and that is where the last decade of dumpster fire can impact your roster and ability to flip it here. These are obstacles JB didn't really have to deal with on that football side, so it's tough to really draw comparisons to what we have here to what's going on there.
Many of our own fans trivialize all the problems and draw false equivalencies to fit their narratives. If things that happened here happened at UK all of our fans would be saying different things about all that. We are biased, we are human I get it.
KP was out of touch in regard to his NIKE ties and ability to get dudes. There really was no Plan B so here we are.
So he has a youth movement without wins and that's a tough sell for fans especially when many didn't want him to begin with and he is fulfilling their predictions of disaster.
I totally agree the HC job is nearly impossible in this era. Fans want their wins. Good luck to everyone.
Fans want wins yes but, they want to be / feel invested in the program that they support. They typically got there by feeling that the coaches and players were coaching and playing more for the program and their teammates - than themselves. Seems like a pretty quaint notion in the current NIL climate I know.
Good examples of this at UofL would be Brohm, Walz or McDonnell. Payne has said a lot about inclusivity and being proud to put on the uniform but his actions in leading the program don’t match the rhetoric.
As said before, he spent 10 years with cow and he is running the program like cow-lite. It’s no wonder then that Louisville fans are expressing similar frustration with him that yut fans have been expressing at cow for that last few years.
If those HC weren't winning big we'd want them gone. JB wins 4 games last year the tune is not the same. Hell we had a dude create a "The Honeymoon is Over" thread after winning 10 games.
It's all about winning.
He's just not winning. But more to the point he's losing way too much.
If he's in the T25 and we're talking seeding we might split hairs about other things but we don't really care.
We had a HC banging a chick out of wedlock on restaurant table. We didn't care.
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I completely agree with regards to winning. I was simply pointing out some of the self inflicted reasons why - despite having several advantages over other D1 HC’s - I think Payne isn’t winning.
And even given all the losing, he has found a way to further alienate fans from supporting him with the clumsy, disconnected and careless to the point of being tone deaf, way he has performed his job off of the court. But again, that’s what he learned from cow and that’s what he’s sticking to.
Just not for very much longer in these part’s hopefully.
I think at some level we try to project our own morals and ethics onto these coaches so we can feel like our coach is doing it the right way, for the kids, for the Program. It's a form of self-gaslighting or just turning a blind eye.
With Pitino, he's not that great of a human. Pitino is all about Pitino. He's the ultimate narcissist. Cheated on his wife. Threw his players under the bus and continues to do so. People will spin and justify and defend his actions because he was a winner.
Calipari is the same guy he's been all along. Pay for the best pros he can get at the amateur level, roll the ball out there and let them perform. Nothing has changed. The only difference is now he's not winning enough. UK fans tolerated his narcissistic BS prior to 2015 and it's less tolerated since.
With Kenny, he seems like a good guy. Doesn't get into any trouble, seems to run a pretty clean program. All of those weird things that have occurred, like the "tights" issue, would get laughed off in a winning program. Fans would say, "Oh Kenny, that is so silly! But thanks for the ACC Championship buddy." Instead it's used as more "proof" of his ineptitude, as if his W-L record weren't enough evidence.
Bottom line for most fans, win and you're loved, lose and you're reviled. All of the rest is swept under the rug for a winner or put under a microscope for a loser.
Those RP pressers were hilarious. The way he'd tell us the worst team in the league was great, then barely beat some of them, and tell us why it was so close. He'd also remind the fans they are idiots. I loved that part of it. But he beat those teams nearly every time so we roll with it.
When Kenny tells us some weak team is a real good team, then loses to them, it's a little tougher to take.
The results are all that matter at the EOD.
Since players are coming and going annually the player centric method KP is applying isn't what's out of bounds. We are throwing the flag on his results. The results are all we need to get after. Anything else is just a force to feel better for hating the losses he's serving. It's okay to just man up, and say, this dude is losing way too much, get him out of here for that. Trying to insert additional reasons is pushing it. I'm quite sure KP is visiting hospitals and doing all of the warm and fuzzy you like to see. He just has an awful W/L record.
I agree. The issue now is how much winning is going to appease the fanbase. There is a constant narrative by a lot of people about the Louisville standard. I don’t know what that means. As soon as the imaginary line is crossed the coach isn’t meeting the standard. KP clearly isn’t meeting anyone’s standard of success.
Musselman is a hot name. He had it rolling at Arkansas then a bad mix of players he brought in didn’t mesh and it has been a bad year. How do evaluate him?
Gates at Missouri tears it up in Year 1 then Year 2 is a mess. How do you evaluate him?
Smart gets fired at Texas and now is doing great at Marquette. How do you evaluate him?
To me all that matters coach wise is that he prioritizes winning, it consumes him in a positive way. Saban-Smart-Pitinio-Self are consumed with winning. I think Brohm is obsessed with winning. Musselman fits that bill but not sure it is positive hence the bouncing.
I think the expectation of every Louisville fan should be to make the sweet 16 most years, an Elite 8 every 3 or 4 years. Final Four every 5-6 years and compete for the title every 5-7 years. That being said, I want a team that most years I can feel good about having the possibility to make a run in March..
We are very far removed from being this but with a good coaching hire we're not that far from getting back there..
We are very far removed from being this but with a good coaching hire we're not that far from getting back there..
