i reiterate. UofL is SuCkS superbowl.

[JohnKBA]

LPT unfairly gets a pass on its schedule IMO. No way a team should get an overall one-seed like last year's team playing only one RPI Top 20 team by the end of the regular season. I understand that you think you can't help it when your conference is weak. Or when teams scheduled years in advance don't turn out quite as good as expected. IMO you still have control over that as long as schools like Grand Canyon, Buffalo, Montana St., UT-Arlington, EKU, and Columbia all show up on it like last year. Or when you could have bolted the SEC a long time ago for a better basketball conference, the sport your school and fanbase is mostly interested in.

No, you need U of L on that godawful schedule because it ranks well above those teams and because it's usually a win. And that's the exact reason I don't think we should be.

"Elite program", my a$$...

UK was the #1 overall seed in 2012 with the 28th ranked Kenpom schedule and #1 overall last year with the 31st ranked schedule. Ohio State was #1 overall in 2011 with the #22 SOS. Not really a difference. UK's current Kenpom SOS is #41 - UNC is #53, Duke #22, Louisville #120.

For the record I think UK should switch to a better basketball conference but I would say it's very unlikely to happen.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Why would UK ever consider switching conferences?
(1) They were a founding member, so there is history to consider.
(2) They are the only team of substance in basketball. Sure, others may have a good year or two, here and there, but consistently, the UK is the SEC..
(3) And yes, they are a doormat in football... I don't see that changing... but they get buko bucks being a doormat. Football is where the money is.

As far as basketball scheduling... can't control the conference players, but I would like to see both UK and UL schedule stronger OOC games.

 

[zipp]

UK was the #1 overall seed in 2012 with the 28th ranked Kenpom schedule and #1 overall last year with the 31st ranked schedule. Ohio State was #1 overall in 2011 with the #22 SOS. Not really a difference. UK's current Kenpom SOS is #41 - UNC is #53, Duke #22, Louisville #120.

For the record I think UK should switch to a better basketball conference but I would say it's very unlikely to happen.

I think Kenpom also says U of L is one of the best teams in the country today.

Last year's LPT team played ONE Top 20 RPI team in the regular season, and that's a fact. ONE. There's all of the talk about how tough LPT schedules in the nonconference portion of its schedule, and then there are the facts.

I'd argue that LPT's performance in the postseason last year also validated that as fact.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

RPI? Is that still a thing?

Holy cow, I actually found it! According to that antiquated stat, Arkansas was a top 20 team last year. Kansas was #3 and UK beat them by a hundred.

They lost a final four game to the #2 RPI team. If that result "validates" your opinion, then god help every #1 team who has not won the championship. ETA - I went back as far as ESPN's archive goes and not a single RPI #1 has won a title in that timeframe. Those guys must all have played really bad schedules I guess. Validation.

 

[zipp]

Why would UK ever consider switching conferences?
(1) They were a founding member, so there is history to consider.
(2) They are the only team of substance in basketball. Sure, others may have a good year or two, here and there, but consistently, the UK is the SEC..
(3) And yes, they are a doormat in football... I don't see that changing... but they get buko bucks being a doormat. Football is where the money is.

As far as basketball scheduling... can't control the conference players, but I would like to see both UK and UL schedule stronger OOC games.

"Founding member" should have kept U of L in the Metro Conference or CUSA.

#2 is the reason LPT SHOULD have long ago bolted. It's not the reason to stay. Why not join the Horizon League if that's your logic?

Money is the only reason. But how badly does LPT need the money when basketball is your main or only focus? Hell, scale back your football costs. And it's not like the ACC or Big Ten passes out chump change.

U of L doesn't need a stronger OOC schedule except for fan/financial support which is fraying at the edges. On the basis of schedule alone, it sure isn't needed.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

RPI? Is that still a thing?

Maybe obsolete, but it's still what the NCAA uses which is important.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JohnKBA]

Maybe obsolete, but it's still what the NCAA uses which is important.

"Elite program", my a$$...

Among many things the NCAA should change, this is one of them. But it probably ranks pretty low on the list of things to change.

 

[nccardfan]

Did anyone see Allen field house? That place is a temple for college basketball. How many years has Kansas won the big 12? But their football team sucks. Nobody complains about them being in the conference. Fact is there are very few programs that are successful in both although I like to think U of L is one of the few.

 

[zipp]

That's right. And if LPT wants to just focus on basketball and save some money, it should make its football-basketball decisions accordingly. Get in a real basketball conference while the reshuffling is still going on, let the SEC fend for itself, and play a legit basketball schedule.

Hell, in the ACC, U of L and LPT will play twice a season and maybe in the conference tourney. Keeps everyone happy...

 

[OneEarWonder]

That's right. And if LPT wants to just focus on basketball and save some money, it should make its football-basketball decisions accordingly. Get in a real basketball conference while the reshuffling is still going on, let the SEC fend for itself, and play a legit basketball schedule.

Hell, in the ACC, U of L and LPT will play twice a season and maybe in the conference tourney. Keeps everyone happy...

Still doesn't make sense. You seem to be the only one I ever see advocating for a conference switch. There is ZERO incentive to move conferences. UL had plenty of incentive over the years, and good for the Cards for the moves they made. But there's no reason for UK to change, and million$ of reasons to stay.

As they say in the Carolinas, that dog just won't hunt.

 

[BPGhost]

Still doesn't make sense. You seem to be the only one I ever see advocating for a conference switch. There is ZERO incentive to move conferences. UL had plenty of incentive over the years, and good for the Cards for the moves they made. But there's no reason for UK to change, and million$ of reasons to stay.

As they say in the Carolinas, that dog just won't hunt.

If your goal is simply to cash a check from the conference, then you're right - no reason for uk to switch. I don't know about advocating but - excepting for the dislike of UofL, the Kentucky fans I know would love to be in the ACC. The hardcore basketball fans would love to have games annually with Duke, Carolina, etc, and the (realistic) football fans see an easier path to bowl games.

As for my take - gotta go with Zipp on this one - UofL simply doesn't need Kentucky at all, and unless they end up in a conference with us, should drop them in all sports.

 

[JohnKBA]

If your goal is simply to cash a check from the conference, then you're right - no reason for uk to switch. I don't know about advocating but - excepting for the dislike of UofL, the Kentucky fans I know would love to be in the ACC. The hardcore basketball fans would love to have games annually with Duke, Carolina, etc, and the (realistic) football fans see an easier path to bowl games.

As for my take - gotta go with Zipp on this one - UofL simply doesn't need Kentucky at all, and unless they end up in a conference with us, should drop them in all sports.

Yep, I'm with Zipp here too, the series should be ended. I really think it would quell some of the animosity between the fanbases, and neither school needs the other. U of L could certainly find a better football opponent - with the current trajectory of the 2 football programs, the Cards have nothing to gain and everything to lose playing UK. And BP, as a UK fan, I couldn't agree more about the conferences. I'd rather have multiple great conference basketball games and the ACC is certainly a much easier path to a bowl game than the SEC has proven to be. UK hasn't posted a winning SEC football record for like 30 years. Not that the ACC is chopped liver, but the conferences are on different levels without question. A bowl game every few years would be a step up for UK.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Personally, I love the annual match ups in Football and Basketball (I don't claim to watch other sports) and I would hate for them to drop the series.
Rivalries such as this are great for the fan bases. Sure, it can bring out some nasties, but plenty of friendly banter ensues as well. There are always a$$hole fans of any team in any sport... I look at the bigger picture of Red and Blue tailgating together, friendly wagers, fun smack talk, etc.

I agree that neither team needs each other, for all the reasons mentioned. Each programs stands on its own. But as a fan of both schools, I love it when they play.

 

[JohnKBA]

Personally, I love the annual match ups in Football and Basketball (I don't claim to watch other sports) and I would hate for them to drop the series.
Rivalries such as this are great for the fan bases. Sure, it can bring out some nasties, but plenty of friendly banter ensues as well. There are always a$$hole fans of any team in any sport... I look at the bigger picture of Red and Blue tailgating together, friendly wagers, fun smack talk, etc.

I agree that neither team needs each other, for all the reasons mentioned. Each programs stands on its own. But as a fan of both schools, I love it when they play.

The bolded above is true. I would miss that.

 

[nccardfan]

Why is Duke-Carolina considered the best rivalry in college basketball? It's not because they are conference foes. It's because their in-state, less than 40 miles apart and their fans love their programs. Sometimes Duke wins sometimes UNC wins. They don't ever discuss ending that series and it's not because of being in conference. It's because it's a rivalry and one team has to win its share of games.

 

[zipp]

Why is Duke-Carolina considered the best rivalry in college basketball? It's not because they are conference foes. It's because their in-state, less than 40 miles apart and their fans love their programs. Sometimes Duke wins sometimes UNC wins. They don't ever discuss ending that series and it's not because of being in conference. It's because it's a rivalry and one team has to win its share of games.

I haven't been personally involved in Duke-Carolina, and I don't know it anywhere close to this game. All I can do is lay out 30+ years of facts about U of L-LPT and draw conclusions. And from there, decide what makes sense.

I'll condense those points again... We have more than three decades of experience to draw from. We (U of L) have had as good as or better coaches over that time span than LPT. Only recently has there been a significant talent disadvantage for U of L, but that's only been in a given year. (This year IMO, we were not at a significant disadvantage...) Players consistently play over their heads in this game for LPT, but the same isn't true for U of L's guys. The LPT schedule sucks pretty much every year, and the U of L game is a big deal. The opposite isn't true; U of L's schedule always has other good teams on it. LPT disproportionately beats U of L vs. other Top 20 teams. When U of L beats U of L, it too often isn't a win worth having on a SOS basis. And a win over LPT in basketball is way down the list of priorities for U of L athletics overall.

Those are facts--or pretty close to--that probably don't much apply to Duke-Carolina.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[nccardfan]

I think you need to brush up on your history. Joe B used to consistently get the blue chippers and McDonald's AAs back then. The only highly touted recruits we got were Scooter McCray and Billy T. Manuel Forrest and Kevin walls.

 

[zipp]

I know my history pretty well, thanks...

Joe B. retired in 1984. During the time that McDonald's All Americans were awarded, he recruited ten of them to LPT. Over those same eight years, U of L recruited seven.

In an 8-year span of time, I wouldn't call that a significant advantage for LPT. Nothing like Pitino Lite and today's 5-star kids in a given year.

The game simply was and still is their Super Bowl.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[nccardfan]

Between 1978 and 1986 UK signed 16 McDonald's AAs. I wasn't implying just in Halls tenure. But I do think you would agree that coach crum did ok in that span?

 

[Cue Card]

Between 1978 and 1986 UK signed 16 McDonald's AAs. I wasn't implying just in Halls tenure. But I do think you would agree that coach crum did ok in that span?

Those stats are not relevant today. Most of those players stayed in school for 4 years. Today, most of the kids with "elite" talent stay 1, sometimes 2 years in school. It's a different recruiting game today.

 

[nccardfan]

Only disputing the fact or statement made by zipp that now is the only time we have had a significant disadvantage to UK in recruiting.

 

[BPGhost]

Why is Duke-Carolina considered the best rivalry in college basketball? It's not because they are conference foes. It's because their in-state, less than 40 miles apart and their fans love their programs. Sometimes Duke wins sometimes UNC wins. They don't ever discuss ending that series and it's not because of being in conference. It's because it's a rivalry and one team has to win its share of games.

This is a bit of an apples & oranges comparison because it's impossible to separate Duke/Carolina from the ACC or, determine if they would continue to keep playing should their affiliation in the same conference end. Maybe it would - who knows? But simply because they would, should have zero bearing on whether UofL & uk continue to schedule one another.

Rivalries come and go.

 

[nccardfan]

Sure they do because of conference affiliations and changes, not because one team thinks we are their Super Bowl.

 

[Cue Card]

Only disputing the fact or statement made by zipp that now is the only time we have had a significant disadvantage to UK in recruiting.

I think the gap is as wide as it has ever been. UofK is recruiting 5 star kids like they've never done before. Ever. Not even when Pitino was there. For every 5 star recruit UofL gets, UofK is getting 5 or more. The only other time I can recall is when Rupp was getting the top talent and everyone else was grabbing leftovers. That was a very long time ago.

 

[zipp]

Between 1978 and 1986 UK signed 16 McDonald's AAs. I wasn't implying just in Halls tenure. But I do think you would agree that coach crum did ok in that span?

You said "Hall", that's why I gave you those stats. There wasn't much of a talent difference that explained on-the-court results.

And there never has been until Pitino Lite's arrival. Yet, they've always won more games.

It's not about coaching, and it's not about talent.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Sure they do because of conference affiliations and changes, not because one team thinks we are their Super Bowl.

That--Super Bowl--is one of the means to the end... They benefit more by scheduling the game, and we actually benefit very little.

That's why from the U of L perspective, the LPT games should be cancelled.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[nccardfan]

But they have more talent than anybody in the country so what happened to that argument they do less with more? You can't have cake and eat it too. Even more reason to want to beat them. I think kids want to play the best competition. Does anybody remember the time we wanted to prove ourselves by playing them. We knew we could beat them and we had a great program. What's changed? I hate them more than ever but what I really hate is that after our usual game in December I have to be satisfied with someone else beating them.

 

[zipp]

But they have more talent than anybody in the country so what happened to that argument they do less with more? You can't have cake and eat it too...

They do have far more talent in most years recently than anyone else. That explains about five of the thirty years--you can 'splain for me the other 25.

And the rhetoric I use with LPT fans (gazillion 5-star kids) has nothing do with rational debate among U of L fans. Unless you're an LPT fan, that's not an argument you can make.

...I think kids want to play the best competition. Does anybody remember the time we wanted to prove ourselves by playing them...

Those days are gone. Most kids here now know nothing about a rivalry with LPT. We impose that on them.

...We knew we could beat them and we had a great program. What's changed?...

Well most of us evolved to where we're no longer little brother. How 'bout you?

...I hate them more than ever but what I really hate is that after our usual game in December I have to be satisfied with someone else beating them.

I guess there's my answer. Eatin' at ya, ain't it?

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[nccardfan]

Not really. I did enjoy Kansas beating them in overtime. Just wish it was us.

 

[KerryRhodes]

Do i have to re-reiterate.................

 

[zipp]

Not for me, I'm buyin' every ounce of it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Red Rager]

I understood the point to be the overall strength of the conference in both sports. There are usually multiple BigXII-II teams in the Top 25 in both football and basketball. The $EC, not so much.

Did anyone see Allen field house? That place is a temple for college basketball. How many years has Kansas won the big 12? But their football team sucks. Nobody complains about them being in the conference. Fact is there are very few programs that are successful in both although I like to think U of L is one of the few.

 

[Majestic Red]

@nccardfan I believe Kansas hasn't lost the Big 12 since 2005.