When does UofL know its final outcome of the FBI(NCAA) investigation?

[jalovell23]

I am just curious if there is a set date when UofL might know if they will punished anymore with the FBI(NCAA) investigation with Brian Bowen. I am sure there are many top available coaches that are keeping an eye on UofL. To have the chance to coach in the best basketball conference the ACC

 

[HRTheCard]

Haha

 

[zipp]

My guess is a long time...

 

[Guardman]

Yep, I'm going with 4 more years.

 

[gocds]

Yep, I'm going with 4 more years.

I’m going with 12 to 18 months. If, as all of the reports and rumors say, there are another 20 (or more) schools/coaches involved there may not be anything the NCAA can or will do. They, meaning the NCAA, has to cover their butts and I’m thinking they pretty much let the “FBI indicted” schools pretty much off the hook by simply changing the rules that define wrongdoing. We have to remember that they gotta be concerned about their own existence and security. If they were to take town 20+ schools/coaches then they just might need to lock their doors and simply fade into the woodwork. Hmmmmmmm, might not be a bad idea. Spreading this out over another 4 years would be more than the public could tolerate.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[Thecycle27]

It will be awhile. With that said I think we will get a look into what the NCAA plans are fairly soon, in terms of their changes. NCAA is not going to pay players that much is pretty clear.

I still not really understanding why head coaches would need to be involved in this shoe company scheme. If the parents are setting the market and the shoe companies were paying the bill why involve any coach. The shoe company decides where to funnel the kids. They sent the kids to programs that agreed to play kids immediately. UK was really the only program that committed to this early. Once Duke jumped in they became Nike's go to program. There is no way Coach K does this without knowing for sure he or Duke wouldn't be brought down. This whole thing was set up to protect the head coaches and the programs.

That is why Pitino isn't going to be found on tap. Dawkins was boosting he could get Pitino to make that call. Think about Arizona they are in the mix because they didn't know what all their players were going to do NBA wise. Miller couldn't promise anything until those decision were made. I am sure he is on tape, but I am going to bet no money is discussed or agreement. Those players decide to come back. MSU Bridges comes back. No room at UK or Duke. Mitchell goes pro Louisville. Dawkins reaches out to Louisville. Coach P we can get you Bowen on one condition you have to agree to play him no matter what. He fits perfectly in with Louisville needs. Coach P absolutely we will play him. That is it.

I am going to guess none of the head coaches, including Miller, are going to be found to have directly been involved the movement of money. They will never admit they knew what was happening behind the scenes. The issue here is the assistant coaches where directly knowledgeable of the scheme i.e. Fair.

 

[Guardman]

I’m going with 12 to 18 months. If, as all of the reports and rumors say, there are another 20 (or more) schools/coaches involved there may not be anything the NCAA can or will do. They, meaning the NCAA, has to cover their butts and I’m thinking they pretty much let the “FBI indicted” schools pretty much off the hook by simply changing the rules that define wrongdoing. We have to remember that they gotta be concerned about their own existence and security. If they were to take town 20+ schools/coaches then they just might need to lock their doors and simply fade into the woodwork. Hmmmmmmm, might not be a bad idea. Spreading this out over another 4 years would be more than the public could tolerate.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

I think Louisville's case will be viewed differently by the NCAA. More harshly. It's clearly their right to be arbitrary and they will be.

 

[billoliver40]

Lots guesses.
My first since this seems to be worldwide is you will never get investigated by the NCAA.

My second is based on Emmerts latest interview.....the Justice Department has told the NCAA they should have no investigations in areas the JD is looking at pertaining information in their case.
So there's a year. It takes the NCAA at least a year to in estimate and come down with a ruling....another year. Add another year for appeal of ruling based on what the University has already done.
So....three years.

 

[Thecycle27]

The universities aren't going to self report. They will wait until the NCAA sends the university a notice of violations. I doubt that ever happens except to a couple.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

The big question is what, if any, evidence will the NCAA get from the FBI. Without it I don't think they can do anything. While I'm sure the FBI would like to assist in cleaning up college basketball, I'm also sure there are limitations on what evidence they could turn over. This may come down to agents giving testimony on what they discovered without turning it over directly. There are almost endless questions on how this may play out.

I can see where nothing may happen to anyone and that would be a real slap in the face to you guys. At any rate I think the last thing you would want is for this to be dragged out for years as it is likely to have a very negative effect on hiring a coach and recruiting.

 

[gocds]

The big question is what, if any, evidence will the NCAA get from the FBI. Without it I don't think they can do anything. While I'm sure the FBI would like to assist in cleaning up college basketball, I'm also sure there are limitations on what evidence they could turn over. This may come down to agents giving testimony on what they discovered without turning it over directly. There are almost endless questions on how this may play out.

I can see where nothing may happen to anyone and that would be a real slap in the face to you guys. At any rate I think the last thing you would want is for this to be dragged out for years as it is likely to have a very negative effect on hiring a coach and recruiting.

The evidence will become public knowledge thru the public trials to convict the accused coaches and assistant coaches.. That’s when the crap will hit the big blue fan. You can bet your bottom dollar that uahkay will be indicted and that cal will skate into never, never land unscathed only to leave a total mess both athleticallly AND academically at uahkay.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

The evidence will become public knowledge thru the public trials to convict the accused coaches and assistant coaches.. That’s when the crap will hit the big blue fan. You can bet your bottom dollar that uahkay will be indicted and that cal will skate into never, never land unscathed only to leave a total mess both athleticallly AND academically at uahkay.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

Indicted? If Cal has done something wrong i hope he is hammered. Yes, information will come out but that isn't the same as the NCAA getting their hands on the actual evidence. Information is one thing, evidence must be supported to be of value.

 

[gocds]

Well you can rest assured that the FBI investigators do a helluva lot better job than the so called NCAA investigators. And that is going to be the rub for the so called 20 schools/coaches.

GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!

 

[billoliver40]

The evidence SEEMS to be a university employee agreeing with an agent to get a kid to play and grease some wheels with a hundred thousand dollars......to somebody.

The University has terminated everyone involved, is already on scholarship limits,
And the player never saw the floor.
Not betting on much more the NCAA will do.
Not for something as widespread as this is shaped up to be.

 

[zipp]

Emmert remarked last weekend that they've been in contact with the FBI. People questioning or hoping that a limited amount of evidence changes hands are trying to beat the odds. There's no incentive for the FBI to bury evidence and every incentive to make as much publicity for their case as possible. The only question I have is what they can legally do with evidence if it isn't used in prosecution, by formally bringing charges. Can the FBI legally turn over evidence obtained thru office raids and wiretaps to the NCAA?

I also think people are simply hoping that the NCAA has too big a mountain to climb. That is, if there are 30 major programs involved, does everyone get off? That's not likely for one reason... It's exactly the perception of impotence and indifference the NCAA is trying to fight. How's it gonna look to their skeptics if they just give everyone a get-outta-jail-free card? Won't happen.

How can you do that without killing the golden geese? You can't NOT injure them. My guess is you make as many penalties as possible levied against PAST teams, institutions, and coaches. You vacate wins and remove banners. You levy multimillion dollar fines against schools and individuals. You issue show-cause orders and maybe ban some coaches from the game. You take away more scholarships than normal.

But you don't impose postseason bans. All schools are still eligible for the postseason which is what TV and advertisers want. And because there are no postseason bans, there are no clouds hanging over teams while waiting. The NCAA can take its sweet time as always to investigate each program and mete out its penalties.

In the end, it will significantly penalize the teams that deserve it. But they'll survive. And the NCAA needs to get kids who don't wanna be in college out of college. The first step if the NBA doesn't cooperate is make all freshmen men's basketball players ineligible. It will take the NBA about fifteen minutes to set up negotiations on changing their OAD rule...

 

[billoliver40]

Emmert remarked last weekend that they've been in contact with the FBI. People questioning or hoping that a limited amount of evidence changes hands are trying to beat the odds. There's no incentive for the FBI to bury evidence and every incentive to make as much publicity for their case as possible. The only question I have is what they can legally do with evidence if it isn't used in prosecution, by formally bringing charges. Can the FBI legally turn over evidence obtained thru office raids and wiretaps to the NCAA?

I also think people are simply hoping that the NCAA has too big a mountain to climb. That is, if there are 30 major programs involved, does everyone get off? That's not likely for one reason... It's exactly the perception of impotence and indifference the NCAA is trying to fight. How's it gonna look to their skeptics if they just give everyone a get-outta-jail-free card? Won't happen.

How can you do that without killing the golden geese? You can't NOT injure them. My guess is you make as many penalties as possible levied against PAST teams, institutions, and coaches. You vacate wins and remove banners. You levy multimillion dollar fines against schools and individuals. You issue show-cause orders and maybe ban some coaches from the game. You take away more scholarships than normal.

But you don't impose postseason bans. All schools are still eligible for the postseason which is what TV and advertisers want. And because there are no postseason bans, there are no clouds hanging over teams while waiting. The NCAA can take its sweet time as always to investigate each program and mete out its penalties.

In the end, it will significantly penalize the teams that deserve it. But they'll survive. And the NCAA needs to get kids who don't wanna be in college out of college. The first step if the NBA doesn't cooperate is make all freshmen men's basketball players ineligible. It will take the NBA about fifteen minutes to set up negotiations on changing their OAD rule...

Solid points (amazing from me I know.)
We as fans of whichever team are in uncharted waters. The NCAA is member schools, not the bogeyman under the bed.
How it responds and how it proceeds going forward are anyone's guess. This situation is by all reports a mountain that dwarfs the point shaving scandals that brought Rupps Kentucky team down sixty plus years ago.
No one is immune to speculation or punishment.
At first glance, the fresman ineligible rule reinstatement along with the NBA allowing the jump from high school to pro would do a lot in helping out.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Emmert remarked last weekend that they've been in contact with the FBI. People questioning or hoping that a limited amount of evidence changes hands are trying to beat the odds. There's no incentive for the FBI to bury evidence and every incentive to make as much publicity for their case as possible. The only question I have is what they can legally do with evidence if it isn't used in prosecution, by formally bringing charges. Can the FBI legally turn over evidence obtained thru office raids and wiretaps to the NCAA?

I also think people are simply hoping that the NCAA has too big a mountain to climb. That is, if there are 30 major programs involved, does everyone get off? That's not likely for one reason... It's exactly the perception of impotence and indifference the NCAA is trying to fight. How's it gonna look to their skeptics if they just give everyone a get-outta-jail-free card? Won't happen.

How can you do that without killing the golden geese? You can't NOT injure them. My guess is you make as many penalties as possible levied against PAST teams, institutions, and coaches. You vacate wins and remove banners. You levy multimillion dollar fines against schools and individuals. You issue show-cause orders and maybe ban some coaches from the game. You take away more scholarships than normal.

But you don't impose postseason bans. All schools are still eligible for the postseason which is what TV and advertisers want. And because there are no postseason bans, there are no clouds hanging over teams while waiting. The NCAA can take its sweet time as always to investigate each program and mete out its penalties.

In the end, it will significantly penalize the teams that deserve it. But they'll survive. And the NCAA needs to get kids who don't wanna be in college out of college. The first step if the NBA doesn't cooperate is make all freshmen men's basketball players ineligible. It will take the NBA about fifteen minutes to set up negotiations on changing their OAD rule...

That's pretty much what I've said too. We agree again.

 

[fredburgcard]

There's no incentive for the FBI to bury evidence and every incentive to make as much publicity for their case as possible. The only question I have is what they can legally do with evidence if it isn't used in prosecution, by formally bringing charges. Can the FBI legally turn over evidence obtained thru office raids and wiretaps to the NCAA?

The answer is no, the federal government cannot release information obtained as part of a federal criminal investigation to a non-government party such as the NCAA. This protects the privacy rights of those who are identified in such investigations but do not have charges brought against them.

The NCAA will have access to all information used in open court or unsealed information used in such things as affidavits submitted in support of warrants and complaints. For example, to obtain the complaint filed in September, an FBI agent swore in an unsealed affidavit that an unnamed assistant coach at "University 6" engaged in a taped conversation with an Adidas executive charged in the complaint where they discussed funneling $100,000 to an unnamed recruit and stated that they had to be discreet inasmuch as University 6 was on probation. Elsewhere in the affidavit there is information which clearly indicates University 6 is UofL and the recruit was Brian Bowen. The feds might not ever introduce the actual recording in court. If they don't no one will be able to obtain it. The NCAA could use the affidavit as proof that a UofL official knowingly violated NCAA rules while the school was already on probation. UofL would probably argue the information should not be used as UofL has no opportunity to confront the witness (the FBI agent). However in an administrative investigation the NCAA is not bound by rules of evidence and it would be up to them to decide how much weight to give the affidavit. My guess is they would use it and would sanction UofL based solely on it.

Contrast that to the claims from Yahoo Sports and ESPN that other schools, not named in the earlier affidavit, have played players who received impermissible benefits. These claims are based solely on "unnamed sources." I doubt the NCAA would use such information standing alone to take an action against a school unless additional information is released or developed later. That would require the proof of such allegations (if it even exists) being used by the feds in criminal prosecution or an NCAA investigation that results in persons making admissions of misconduct. If Bam Adebayo or his family are interviewed by the NCAA and admit that they did receive "loans" from a sports agency then Kentucky might have to forfeit wins from games he played in in 2016-17. I doubt he would even consent to an interview.

A lot has to play out before anything is likely to happen in the way of NCAA investigations and sanctions in this mess. Louisville's problem is that while this goes on it has to live in limbo and that makes recruiting and finding a coach extremely difficult.

 

[zipp]

Thanks, fred. I thought that evidence was protected as you describe...

 

[Rockfly78]

Emmert remarked last weekend that they've been in contact with the FBI. People questioning or hoping that a limited amount of evidence changes hands are trying to beat the odds. There's no incentive for the FBI to bury evidence and every incentive to make as much publicity for their case as possible. The only question I have is what they can legally do with evidence if it isn't used in prosecution, by formally bringing charges. Can the FBI legally turn over evidence obtained thru office raids and wiretaps to the NCAA?

I also think people are simply hoping that the NCAA has too big a mountain to climb. That is, if there are 30 major programs involved, does everyone get off? That's not likely for one reason... It's exactly the perception of impotence and indifference the NCAA is trying to fight. How's it gonna look to their skeptics if they just give everyone a get-outta-jail-free card? Won't happen.

How can you do that without killing the golden geese? You can't NOT injure them. My guess is you make as many penalties as possible levied against PAST teams, institutions, and coaches. You vacate wins and remove banners. You levy multimillion dollar fines against schools and individuals. You issue show-cause orders and maybe ban some coaches from the game. You take away more scholarships than normal.

But you don't impose postseason bans. All schools are still eligible for the postseason which is what TV and advertisers want. And because there are no postseason bans, there are no clouds hanging over teams while waiting. The NCAA can take its sweet time as always to investigate each program and mete out its penalties.

In the end, it will significantly penalize the teams that deserve it. But they'll survive. And the NCAA needs to get kids who don't wanna be in college out of college. The first step if the NBA doesn't cooperate is make all freshmen men's basketball players ineligible. It will take the NBA about fifteen minutes to set up negotiations on changing their OAD rule...

I agree with much of this. I’m not sure the mountain is too hard to climb, but it damn sure is too hard to climb quickly. There could likely be posters on this board who will actually be dead and gone by the time all the schools receive their final punishments.

 

[billoliver40]

Thanks for your post Fred. That also brings home the direction of the federal judge to have all 'leaks' stopped ; if nothing else to protect privacy.
Great post.