Now what?

[earsky]

I'm at a loss about what's next. I've been scowering the internet for in depth articles about the incoming class and can't find anything beyond a list of players. I'm certain it's a top 10 class,but how it fits with who's coming back(grad seniors, transfers in or out,and returning underclassmen) is the 64 thousand dollar question.

I'm not even sure which Seniors have any eligibility left.🤷‍♂️

 

[Bardman]

Getting bb info is always very tough. I don’t think we have to worry about meshing old and new players. I just hope they compete and the guys who earn time get it.
Pitching is still the biggest issue. We know hitting and base-running left us scratching our heads at times. But, with solid pitching you can absorb those valleys and miscues. I really hope DM can find at least 2 D1 pitchers who can immediately contribute. Gongora was pretty solid. The other two guys they brought in - Karaba (spl?) and Lessman - were pretty much meh.

 

[CardX]

I'm not digging how there's been silence since missing the post season. Face the music. Give us a vision.

 

[earsky]

The Cards Chronicle had a nice piece on the current Freshman class last year but I can't find any in depth article on the most recent signees. And yeah, crickets over there. Let's put it on the table and talk about it.

 

[earsky]

I posted on another thread,hopefully Mac can keep this Sophomore class together and build around it. Highly regarded,these Sophomores need to change the culture at 3rd and Central and take ownership of this team for 2025.

 

[Thecycle27]

He has been awful quiet since the end of the season. He usually gives an after the season press conference. It wouldn’t surprise me if he left. South Carolina makes sense if they want him. To be honest I would bolt for a Southern school because it is a sport dominated by the part of the country.

I am good either way.

 

[earsky]

He has been awful quiet since the end of the season. He usually gives an after the season press conference. It wouldn’t surprise me if he left. South Carolina makes sense if they want him. To be honest I would bolt for a Southern school because it is a sport dominated by the part of the country.

I am good either way.

Really curious to see so many of the redshirted Freshmen pitchers entering the portal. And yeah, I'm good either way too.

 

[2330859]

The players must experience at least some of the same disappointment that fans are expressing here and on other sites. I am not surprised some will look to leave.

Several years ago, Mac started sharing his concerns about the lack of financial investment in UL Baseball. At first I did not interpret as criticism, but rather more about simply lobbying for his sport. In hindsight, UL and so many other schools and conferences are victim to the SEC advancing forward, while others cannot keep up the pace. I suspect that Mac recognized the trend, but this University and fanbase do not seem inclined to invest the sort of money that could keep pace with the SEC.

 

[earsky]

but this University and fanbase do not seem inclined to invest the sort of money that could keep pace with the SEC.

 

[Guardman]

When you are going to be $50 million behind annually ... and you only have half the living alumni for support, how can you possibly keep up?

 

[rh62531]

Believe if CDM had continued to elaborate the wants/needs for the program directly to the fan base ... the funds would come in. Maybe not as much as revenue based programs, but funds for increased scholarships, NIL, ... Head coaches have to increase their tasks, talents. If you can do commercials for athletic equipment, you can request funding for "your" program.

 

[earsky]

When you are going to be $50 million behind annually ... and you only have half the living alumni for support, how can you possibly keep up?

The short answer is you can't. I like to do my walking during the Spring around the complex that is the Sports Medicine building and Patterson stadium while taking in the sounds of batting practice echoing in my ears. On one such occasion I saw a group of gentlemen come out of the Medical building and head towards Beefs for what I assumed was a lunch meeting. It wasn't a very happy looking group. Didn't recognize Mac for a second without his hat,but he was flanked by Heird and the baseball operations guy(not sure about his name).
I can only assume that meeting was not fruitful for what I suspect Mac was wanting to hear from Heird about breaking ground on the new practice facility. That was probably mid April. There has been a slow unraveling of The Program since...the longer answer. My bugaboo is we had the #3 class two years ago without the facility. I'm not sure if that class thought they were getting a facility built or not. I am not convinced this is about NIL money, but yes the money that was earmarked for that facility from Kroger to start the process.

 

[Guardman]

I am thinking UofL will be triaging baseball down to a lower level of support. Something has to suffer.

So, MBB, FB, WBB and maybe VB will be where the precious shekels go.

These are HUGE expenses and bills coming down the pike that need to be paid. With $50m a year less than Vandy and Indiana and Rutgers etc.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

When you're struggling financially, a sport like baseball is gonna see it before others do. Our facilities are average at best in the upper ranks of college baseball. And that wasn't the case...

 

[Thecycle27]

I don’t know baseball is the one sport where facilities don’t really matter. Hitters need to see as much live pitching as possible. Pitchers need to throw live. This is all done outside. Any good day weather wise they are outdoors. Tough to spend the money being tossed around for the new facility for limited use.

Add in NIL facilities start becoming less important.

Not saying they don’t need a good practice facility just may need to scale it back.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

The issue is that stuff goes hand in hand. The teams with the best facilities also dole out the most NIL money. No one is managing like their facilities don't matter if they have the money to invest...

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Our spending on baseball isn’t an issue by these numbers.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

U of L reported spending of $3.8 million in baseball last year vs. a budget ("original") of $3.6 million. These numbers are from U of L's accounting reports, not the NCAA's. Speak up if you want me to upload anything.

Assuming the other school's numbers on that list are accurate, that would put us around 40th. That's closer to where the team ended up statistically ranked on the season, i.e., no free lunch.

Also worth mentioning that U of L reported baseball spending in FY2022 of $4.2 million, meaning that the baseball program took a 10% financial haircut YOY in 2023 without the inflation adjustment. Obviously not good and maybe one reason we would have an unhappy coach...

 

[2330859]

Patterson Stadium is nice, but it pales in comparison to Clemson, UNC, FSU. It should be evident that any chance of UL baseball returning to previous success …….it will require NIL investment at the same level as the aforementioned schools.

I will share this one experience; when TJ was AD, Mike Dudas and Mark Jurich took turns intentionally pursuing me and my business partner for financial contributions, they were the only ones who ever asked for help, and since TJ left I have only occasional group e-mail requesting support and nothing specific for baseball.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

That lack of pursuit comment is what I hear from a lot of fans who used to be on U of L speed dial. It's baffling...

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Another little snippet since it's that time of year, and I'm looking at budgets...

The 2024 budget in baseball was $3.9 million. That's the fiscal year ending in two weeks. Haven't seen the 2025 number yet; they come out shortly.

On an inflation adjusted basis, the budget in 2018 was $4.2 million. So, baseball funding is down 7.4% over the last six years.

If I go back an equal number of years (six) prior to 2018, the inflation adjusted budget in baseball was $2.6 million. The budget outpaced inflation by 61% over those six years, 2012-2018.

This is what you don't get by simply looking at one year's financial report. You don't get to see the dramatic difference in financial support that a sport like baseball gets today vs the past. (And that's unfortunately true in just about every other sport...)

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Another little snippet since it's that time of year, and I'm looking at budgets...

The 2024 budget in baseball was $3.9 million. That's the fiscal year ending in two weeks. Haven't seen the 2025 number yet; they come out shortly.

On an inflation adjusted basis, the budget in 2018 was $4.2 million. So, baseball funding is down 7.4% over the last six years.

If I go back an equal number of years (six) prior to 2018, the inflation adjusted budget in baseball was $2.6 million. The budget outpaced inflation by 61% over those six years, 2012-2018.

This is what you don't get by simply looking at one year's financial report. You don't get to see the dramatic difference in financial support that a sport like baseball gets today vs the past. (And that's unfortunately true in just about every other sport...)

Ok but I want to at least add in some more context. I do agree at the core that Tom was much better in getting donations secure for smaller sports. That was important, but I want to add a little more context to see if you agree.

Are you doing just what was budgeted or actually spent?

2017 we went to the NCAA tournament, hosted a regional and maybe a Super Regional. One would think we'd budget higher because of the expenses from the prior year, I would think that some expenses from the successful 2017 season would be carried into the 2018 budget.

1. Extends the season
2. Performance bonuses
3. Travel costs. How much did it cost to send the whole team to Omaha?
4. Paying staff for the tournament. The longer the season, there's more staff getting paid additional time, and-or it's being allocated to baseball expenses.

Now of course, revenues were probably better due to the performance to offset higher expenses, but you have to add those.

I do agree with your premise that Jurich's admin was better at taking care and managing baseball a lot better, but I do think there is some nuance to the situation.

 

[Thecycle27]

Jurich was in growth mode, trying to get into Big 12 or ACC and could sell people, Patterson, on the importance of getting a new field/facilities. That is far different than going back the same people for up grades for facilities or maintaining. Also have to put Covid into the equation. That is a huge factor. There is no arguing Jurich was a better fundraiser than the current group however college sports has changed very quickly.

I would argue NIL/Transfer Portal are far more important than facilities. Players are coming schools for a variety of reasons. Pay and playing time being the top 2. Development and facilities are nice to offer. NIL has to be right if it isn’t doesn’t matter what kind of facilities you have.

 

[earsky]

Yeah, these players all wanting to test the waters on their value through NIL quintessentially important, especially if they were drafted and find their playing time not able to attract the attention of scouts.

 

[Mayoman]

Just a thought: Does Mark Jurich being a former baseball standout for the Cards have any bearing on how the previous admin financially supported the program? Things that make you go HMMMMM. Anybody?

Shame some enterprising young reporter doesn't pursue an interview with him for some insight.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

...Are you doing just what was budgeted or actually spent?...

I'll work on the latter, but I don't know if the numbers are gonna show what you think they will.

Bottom line... There's a lot less money coming into athletics overall than there used to be, so these individual sports are feeling the effects. And for a coach like McDonnell who has seen the before and after and previously didn't worry about money, it has to be like a bucket of cold water in his face.

I don't buy the myth that "it's built" and "no more growth mode." A nonprofit ALWAYS has to raise more money and remain in growth mode. You worry about how to spend it once you make it. They're investments, not expenses.

You don't rationalize an inability to perform. You demand performance...

 

[Thecycle27]

The reality is the fundraising game has shifted. It is toward players and NIL. It isn’t surprising Louisville football and basketball landed top transfers. The 1M Kueber donated to NIL used to go to facilities now it is toward player acquisition.

I don’t care who the coach is if they don’t have players they won’t win especially in the ACC. It is a different animal that AAC and Big East. You can’t miss on 90 percent of your pitchers since Covid. That has nothing to do with facilities.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

By the way, I didn't address the Covid argument... U of L's finances started declining in 2018-19, a couple years before Covid.

Has Covid helped us try to recover? Of course not. It's slowed us and everyone. But why did we need to "recover?" ...Because we put ourselves in recovery mode, crisis mode. We took a torched earth approach to athletics, and then Covid came along.

You set yourself up for unexpected ish to happen, and it routinely does.

If paying athletes is now a big part of athletics administration--the NCAA just said it is--then U of L's revenues should start increasing significantly if you think NIL explains U of L's financial problems. That money will return to U of L.

But don't hold your breath, Josh Heird and his "$20 million lying around" remark broke that news. That money doesn't exist, at least in that amount...

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I'll work on the latter, but I don't know if the numbers are gonna show what you think they will.

Bottom line... There's a lot less money coming into athletics overall than there used to be, so these individual sports are feeling the effects. And for a coach like McDonnell who has seen the before and after and previously didn't worry about money, it has to be like a bucket of cold water in his face.

I don't buy the myth that "it's built" and "no more growth mode." A nonprofit ALWAYS has to raise more money and remain in growth mode. You worry about how to spend it once you make it. They're investments, not expenses.

You don't rationalize an inability to perform. You demand performance...

I do agree.

The Jurich era was built on getting donations to help us compete with the bigger programs. They didn’t have the TV revenue most of the time, they had to go out and get it.

This new group is more reliant on TV money. But we are going to see the bigger gap because of the SEC and Big Ten’s growth.

I think you are right in that there has been a drop in the money coming into athletics since the Jurich era. But also, we can’t measure the NIL money that’s coming in to the collectives because those numbers aren’t fully available. But even before NIL there were issues.

JH and Dudas have done a great job getting our NIL funded. That’s been a positive of the last 2 years. They’ve done a good job of getting us in front of things for this era.

I think there is a bit more nuance. But I will say TJ would’ve been big in this era where we need to maximize donations for NIL and also the smaller programs that get lost in the shuffle when the big 2 sports get what they want.

 

[CardX]

Just a thought: Does Mark Jurich being a former baseball standout for the Cards have any bearing on how the previous admin financially supported the program? Things that make you go HMMMMM. Anybody?

Shame some enterprising young reporter doesn't pursue an interview with him for some insight.

Mark and Tyra had beef, from what I recall. But it was over basketball tickets, I think. I wouldn’t think Tyra would “punish” the baseball program because of that. Probably more to it.

 

[Thecycle27]

If anyone can tie the staffs inability to recruit and develop pitchers since Covid to finances and facilities please share. All the staff had said every year is they have talented arms and teams. The recruiting rankings are in line with their comments. We torched Satterfield for never landing legit QB’s. Now we are covering for the staff that hasn’t landed a legit MLB arm in 4-5 years.

Until someone shows me how Jurich landed players and how Tyra/Heird lost them players, I will put the blame squarely on the coaching staff the same way I gave them credit when they were killing it. Like it or not college sports shifted after Covid our staff didn’t.

 

[Bardman]

The stadium is fine. Could it be larger? Sure. If we had the fans to fill it up I’d be all for it. I don’t need anyone comparing the football stadium expansion to the baseball stadium - they are not the same. An indoor practice facility, along with an upgrade to the hack shack, are certainly upgrades that would help the program. But, to say the facilities have caused a downturn in results is ridiculous.

 

[Thecycle27]

I do think there is a lack of overall program promotion and fan engagement. As a former player, even though it was before his time, you would think I would get email-text something encouraging NIL support or season tickets. I have never received an email from the program. The annual golf outing nothing. I have purchased season tickets-did the donation for the new stadium etc. Our group of players are at the age to help but we all need a little nudge from time to time.

They need to understand the promotion of their program never stops.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

...Until someone shows me how Jurich landed players and how Tyra/Heird lost them players, I will put the blame squarely on the coaching staff the same way I gave them credit when they were killing it. Like it or not college sports shifted after Covid our staff didn’t.

The money coming into baseball has slowed dramatically. In real dollars, it was up more than 50% between 2012 and 2017. And in the six years since, it's down 5%.

That difference in funding is significant.

Money drives these programs. It's not 100% on the coaches. Jurich & Co get as much credit from me for building the baseball program as the head coach does. Same goes for CONTINUING to build it...

 

[Jhectus18]

I've seen this posted elsewhere about gift-giving to UofL, particularly for baseball. Basically one man's word but he stated for the amount of money he/family was giving to UofL baseball, he got 0 benefits. Giving the same amount to WBB, he was afforded a road trip travel party with the team, dinner with the staff and private practice events. Not sure if that is a coaching staff thing or something to do with the assistant ADs in charge of the sports but it was eye-opening how the same amount of money designated to 2 different sport was "rewarded" in such contrast.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

...Are you doing just what was budgeted or actually spent?...

The following actual baseball expenses are from U of L's internal financial reports I have on file. They're not explicitly found in the audited annual reports.

They're also in nominal dollars for each fiscal year--not inflation adjusted, which I recommend when looking at any time series of more than a few years. Let us know if you see anything of interest...

2012: $1,955,477
2013: $2,056,397
2014: $2,226,294
2015: $2,374,193
2016: $2,849,775
2017: $3,243,075
2018: $3,277,076
2019: $3,717.212
2020: $3,434,692
2021: $2,947,924 (Covid)
2022: $4,221,477
2023: $3,789,386

 

[LeFors4Ever]

2012: $1,955,477
2013: $2,056,397 (HOSTED REGIONAL)
2014: $2,226,294 (Hosted Regional & Super Regional)
2015: $2,374,193 (Hosted Regional & Super Regional)
2016: $2,849,775 (Hosted Regional & Super Regional)
2017: $3,243,075 (Hosted Regional & Super Regional) (Dan got his raise to $1.0 per year)
2018: $3,277,076 ($150k McDonnell Bonus)
2019: $3,717.212 (Hosted Regional & Super Regional) (
2020: $3,434,692 (Covid) ($150k McDonnell Bonus) (Dan got another extension
2021: $2,947,924 (Covid)
2022: $4,221,477 (Hosted Regional) ($100k McDonnell Bonus)
2023: $3,789,386

Thanks for that, the ULAA lumps baseball in with all the other sports on their audited statements, or at least the ones I found anyways. Which they should do as it would be helpful.

The years in bold are years we made the tournament. I do think the spending can be correlated to some things like hosting regionals and super regionals, performance bonuses for success, staff increases, inflation, etc.

If you could get a breakdown on some items of what went up and down from 2022 to 2023. Because I would say hosting a regional & Super Regional would be expensive, not to mention I believe Dan has performance incentives in his deal. I know some things get lumped into certain budgets that are onetime expenses as well.

For example, Dan got a loyalty bonus in 2018 for a loyalty bonus of $150k & another one in 2020 for $150k. Which that adds about $11k or so in payroll taxes for each time. I believe he got another loyalty bonus in 2022 for $100k & will receive another one this season. Now that was the extension, he signed in 2016 I believe, so it may have been changed when he signed the one with Vince Tyra.

Generally, salaries and payroll make up the most part. Hosting those regionals and super regionals requires more payments to operating the facilities, paying far more staff to run the show and host teams, and paying out a lot more to contracted labor.

Im actually not disputing your side, I do love looking at financial statements and had some questions. Lumping it in under other sports on the audited side makes it hard to view and since you have the numbers you might have more of a breakdown or summary.

 

[Bardman]

I do think there is a lack of overall program promotion and fan engagement. As a former player, even though it was before his time, you would think I would get email-text something encouraging NIL support or season tickets. I have never received an email from the program. The annual golf outing nothing. I have purchased season tickets-did the donation for the new stadium etc. Our group of players are at the age to help but we all need a little nudge from time to time.

They need to understand the promotion of their program never stops.

Say that louder and say it to our AD.

 

[Thecycle27]

The following actual baseball expenses are from U of L's internal financial reports I have on file. They're not explicitly found in the audited annual reports.

They're also in nominal dollars for each fiscal year--not inflation adjusted, which I recommend when looking at any time series of more than a few years. Let us know if you see anything of interest...

2012: $1,955,477
2013: $2,056,397
2014: $2,226,294
2015: $2,374,193
2016: $2,849,775
2017: $3,243,075
2018: $3,277,076
2019: $3,717.212
2020: $3,434,692
2021: $2,947,924 (Covid)
2022: $4,221,477
2023: $3,789,386

It tells me the staff has done a terrible job evaluating pitchers. Like I said it has nothing to do with the investment in the program. They were spending less with better results. They just missed on the majority of their pitching recruits. It happens to veteran staffs they get arrogant or lazy thinking their culture will fix any issues.

Sounds like they have a few pitchers coming in via the portal so we will shall see.

 

[Jhectus18]

And say it loud enough for our coach to hear it too. The AD was not just being forgetful when he named every major sport coach with exception to Dan McDonnell in his recent WDRB interview about how accepting they have been of NIL and changes to college athletics.